Bye Bye Bi

[L8RISER]

In defence of gay.

 

I'm probably going to open a can of worms here, but anyway...In reading various threads in this forum, I was quite surprised to find that there are about twenty bi people to every one gay person!....Really?

 

I don't have a problem with someone who is bi, and there are definitely people who are truly somewhere in between gay and straight, but come on...is it really that common? There are not nearly as many as this forum suggests. My experience, both personal and from acquaintances, is that maybe 10% or less of people who say they are bi actually are. It may be more common with women, but not men. Why do gays have a problem with bi's? Not because it's impossible to be bisexual, but because the vast majority of bi's are simply hiding their gayness, or making it more palatable to society by using that word.

 

A year after living in the big city, that beer guzzling, sports watching, plaid shirt wearing, "straight" guy who just likes a bj from a guy now and then ("but that doesn't mean I'm gay!") is suddenly sashaying around the gay-bourhood in Prada loafers, and a crop top and now goes by James, not Jim. Common story.

 

I took a long-time to tell myself I was just gay, and not bi. I wish I had done it earlier. I went through my late teens and early twenties convincing myself I was bi, and holding myself back from my gay sexuality. All those lost opportunities, that you can never go back and relive.

 

I don't think you do anyone a favour by suggesting to them that they are bi. I'm not saying tell people that they are gay or straight, but let's be realistic and honest. If you think about guys all the time, or when you're with the gf, you're probably gay - fess up! I can understand that people may not be "out" at work, or at home, or to various friends due to they own personal circumstances...but not "out" to yourself? You can't control how other's will react, but you don't have to hate yourself. Don't wait too long like I did. It only gets harder the older you get.

 

I thought being gay was going to be a tough life...but you know what?...It's great. I would never go back to being bi, or straight, or whatever.

 

You like guys?...you're gay..so what?

[Shadows Light]

So what you are saying is... that BI's are actually Gays in denial????

 

Possibly. Quite possibly a few of them.

 

Actually the spectrum to sexuality and on the bell curve... there are probably statistically more Bi-s than Gays... sorry. Falling on the spectrum at eiher extremes. I'd be willing to bet... more Bi's than total Homosexuals.

 

And you are right... The issue is being able to live an open lifestyle keeps many in the closets.

 

Tis what it tis. But I guess tis better that it was years ago... people are bit more open minded these days and willing to be accepting of who you are. Lucky you to be living at this great time and era.

[confusedgrl23]

Not to sound rude, but I dont understand why you should be concerned with other peoples sexuality?

 

So what is the big deal with someone who wants a little of both worlds?

And how is that your business anyway? As long as they are honest with their lovers, I dont see the big deal.

 

Im a straight girl and even I took offense to what you said in a way. I have, straight, gay, bi friends. Do I tell my bi friends that they need to go one way or another? umm no. Besides, some people take a little longer to know who they really are then others, and that is OK.

[ItHurts]

I think it's better to label yourself Bisexual than to call yourself Heterosexual/Straight. I know people who label themselves Heterosexual but mess around with the same-sex.

[Mirielle]

The Hostilty towards Bi's comes from various factors. Many many gay people say they are bi before coming fully out. It's an easy way to comfortable slip into your true sexuality because less is expected of you.

 

Then there are the loads of women who say they are bi just to get attention and follow the latest trend. Then there are those who are bi but are not so honest with there lovers of either gender, because not as many people are comfortable with that type of relationship.

 

That "best of both worlds" mentallity can draw alot of justified anger from people who had to really struggle with all the problems being gay can bring. They want all the benfits of same-sex relationships but none of the responsibilty and hardships. That is just basically cowardice.

 

Then there are gay people who say they are bi so they can still live a comfortable 'normal' life. That can be especially annoying to those gay people who refuse to take the easy way out.

[Dannysgirl]

Hi confusedgrl,

 

I don't think L8riser was trying to tell people how they should live their lives, he was just giving advice based on his own experience. Two of my closest friends are gay and they BOTH said they were bi for a time before they said they were actually gay. In fact most of the gay people I have known (and I have known A LOT I studied media & performing arts! ) have said that before admitting they were gay, perhaps saying you're bi first softens 'the blow' a bit?

Thats not to say that Bi people don't exist or that there is anything wrong with being bi but in my experience many gay people tend to go the 'Bi' way first.

[Shadows Light]

As long as they are honest with their lovers, I dont see the big deal.

I agree with cofusedgirl... honesty with the one you are with is IMPORTANT.

In fact most of the gay people I have known (and I have known A LOT I studied media & performing arts! ) have said that before admitting they were gay, perhaps saying you're bi first softens 'the blow' a bit?

 

I can quite understand the wanting to soften the blow...from my point of view though..I'd probably want to be told like it is up front.

 

To the original poster....I understand you are only speaking from your own field of experience. From my personal field of experinece... having someone lie to me or hide behind my skirts was a SHOCK.

 

I think its unfortunate that people have to hide behind labels at all. It is what it is. But maybe we are working towards a world where that will not have to be the case in the future.

[L8RISER]

Why I should be concerned with other peoples sexuality? This is a Gay, Lesbian, Trans forum...people come here to talk about their sexuality.

 

"Am I gay, straight, or bi?"

 

"Is my friend gay or straight?"

 

"Is my bf gay?"

 

So our reply to these questions should be, "we don't care!" If you don't want to talk about sexuality (yours and others) than this is probably the wrong forum for you.

 

I am sceptical that there are more bi guys than gay guys. This is from my own experience - which is on the guy side of things. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more bi women than bi guys. But anyway, how can we say statistically? How do you prove gay or bi? Ask them? Are you going to get a "straight" answer?

 

I know more than a few people who are not honest about the sexuality with there lovers because they're not honest about it with themselves.

 

People come on this site all the time posting questions about there sexuality. My advice to them is to be honest with yourself. If you're having gay thoughts and desires; if you find yourself lusting after the same sex, even though you are emotional attracted to the opposite sex; if you had a sexual experience with the same sex and it felt better than anything before, it sounds like your gay. And that's OK. I think I lot of people say they're bi because being gay scares the s**t out of them. Not just "what will the rest of the world think?", but internalized ridicule as well, "how can I be one of those homos I see on TV?"

 

The reason I wrote this post was because it seemed very odd how many guys on here said they were bi (again I know more about the guy side.) And it doesn't seem to reflect reality as I know it (again it's my perspective.) No one had brought up the issue so I did. To all those "bi" guys out there...there ain't anything wrong with just being gay and only gay. I have also notice that most of them are below 23 yo or so. I wish I had come out when I was their age - so there's my advice.

[Dau]

Yeah but you see L8RISER, you're saying if someone is bi and liked the gay side then they should be gay. That isn't necessarily true. You're saying people shouldn't take two sides, only one. Or at least that's the impression you're giving. If you intend to say something else, try rewording it better. And while you think your blunt attitude is going to work, it doesn't always, and some people aren't going to like you because of it. Just consider that.

[anonymous_presence]

It's good advice to give people that there's really no shame in being gay, but don't you think that the bisexual transition phase is necessary?

 

You said yourself that you did the same thing, and it's only natural to take the time to detach yourself from your past, from the traditions you were raised with, from your family's and society's expectations of you, from previous habits and so forth, and to finally emerge as an openly gay person. You're not going to wake up one day and say, "Hey, I must be gay." The bisexual "title" helps like Dannysgirl said to soften the blow.

 

There shouldn't be any pressure on people to pick their sexuality and stick with it. Yeah, the majority of these self-dubbed bisexuals are fairly young, and that's with good reason: it takes time to experience and learn about one's sexuality. And again, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Don't you think that a bisexual transition period is important so that the person can come to terms with his/her homosexuality? With all the stigma behind it, the way the media portrays it, there's shame unfortunately in coming out, and not only publicly but also with yourself. I agree that people who claim they are bi's might not actually be truly bisexual, but I don't think that's anything to hold against them. It's their sexuality they're dealing with, and it's entirely up to them to decide what they do.

[Mirielle]

If you are confused about your sexuality, then why are you picking one? Saying you're bi does make it easier, but you are making things difficult for a whole lot of people while you figure things out.

 

It's better to tell people you aren't sure or are experimenting than to come out and say "I'm bisexual."

 

This is why bisexuals have such a bad reputation and nobody trusts them or takes them seriously.

 

If society was better about homosexuality, transition wouldn't be that necessary because people would feel alot more comfortable. Go ask people who said they were bi before they were gay. They knew all along they were gay, but said they were bi to make things easier. That's more often the case than someone who was truly confused, than most people think.

[Dau]

Y'know, it's pretty immature to say that you're making it difficult for others to figure you out when you're in transition. Sure, it might be difficult for them, but if they can't respect that you're dealing with one of the most personal things you can have in your life, why are they bothering to worry in the first place?

 

A lot of people that claim they're bi tend to have an attraction toward both sexes, and have maintained that preference for a long period of time. But over additional time, that might change. A person can't know what the future holds, and you're saying that people should expect that. As such, your statements are quite immature.

 

I've had an attraction to guys since I was 4. Yeah, that early of an age. But I fell in love with one girl I knew in jr. high. I still miss her, but I don't have any sexual attraction to females anymore, and thus I'm gay. Did I expect my preference to change? No. Where I live, being bi is just as significant as being gay. So claiming that I'm bi doesn't make things easier. Thanks for being judgemental though

[novaseeker]

Yeah I don't see less stigma to being 'bi' than being 'gay'. Yes there are people who transition and use the word 'bi' to describe themselves during that phase, but your words are very insulting towards people who really are 'bisexual'.

 

It certainly pisses me off when gay people go around lecturing other people about their sexuality ... how little they've learned from their treatment by the straight world, it seems to me.

 

I really AM bi. I have a pronounced preference in terms of physical attraction for women, but I'm bi nonetheless if the right situation comes along. I don't need someone who is gay telling me that my own sexual preferences are somehow invalid, untruthful or insincere. Stuff it! It's the exact same thing as straight people saying "You know, you're not really gay, you're a straight person who had developmental issues as a child, and you have to own up to that and live the life of the straight person inside you ... because I just know."

 

It's always sad when I see gay people bashing bisexuals and transgendered people with the idea that both of these groups "are really gay and should just admit it". Again ... how little you have learned from the abuse showered on you by the straight community.

 

For shame!

[nuts]

but heres what i dont get. i am one of those bi's who tend to be more physically attracted to guys and emotionally attracted to girls - but thats certainly not always the case. many a time has the sight of a woman turned me on. equally speaking, i have fallen in "deep like" (no way am i gonna call it love) with a guy simply because of who he was inside. that in itself allowed me to become physically attracted to him as well.

 

so with all that said and done, does this mean that i should choose one or the other?

 

i cant control my feelings for anyone, be it sexual or emotional. who knows if in the future i'll go all-gay or all-straight. whatever does happen, i refuse to label myself right now as one way or the other. im still young, still finding things out for myself. "bisexual" so happens to be the easiest term to describe what i am and how i feel. i may not like using it (i HATE labels) but for now its the easiest thing.

 

as for those gays who "hide" behind bisexuality... i agree that its an easier way to ease yourself into homosexuality. if it makes them happy then so be it.

[nuts]

and one more thing.....

 

hahaha i like the topic title.

[HoldMeTightly]

i honestly like guys and girls. girls more, yes. however, i still like guys too.

[UT]

It's always sad when I see gay people bashing bisexuals and transgendered people with the idea that both of these groups "are really gay and should just admit it". Again ... how little you have learned from the abuse showered on you by the straight community.

 

First off, no one really have any right to tell others how to live their lives. But, most, and I only mean most of the people who announce themselves bisexual at first will later say that they are gay. It is not so in all cases, so please don't get offended. I'm just expressing what I think.

 

When starting to realise that you have feelings for people of the same sex as you are, it will be a transition. at least at one point of this transition you will feel as if you are bisexual. That's why it so common that people e.g. come to this forum stating they are bi sexual and later on realising they are homosexual.

 

We have to respect those who are in that stage too, we can't just assume that they are confused and tell them they are gay. They are probably already terrified that they are bi, different. To tell them "you're gay" would be like dropping a bomb on them. And we can't know if the person stating they are bi really is bi. thereforeeee we have to be careful with what we say and respect everyone's point of view on this subject.

 

Am I right or do you think I should go and hide in a garbage can?

[Amarte]

It is sickening how some gays dismiss bisexual and transsexual people. What is wrong w/ them? Why are they so biphobic and transphobic? What are they afraid of?

 

It is really a myth that there are more gay people than there are bisexual people in this world. It is only logical that if sexuality is a spectrum ranging from completely straight to completely gay, then most people are somewhere in-between.

 

I have a "gay" friend and he is the queen of queens when it comes to being the stereotypical gay man (sometimes even dresses in drag and prefers "manly, manly" man). Yet, once in a blue moon he gets sexually attracted to women and trannies. Is he 100% gay? Definitely Not! But he definitely is predominantly, superpredominantly, gay. So if so many men can be predominantly gay, why can't a lot of men be predominantly straight or truly bisexual as well?

 

By the way, my "gay" friend gets more average guys' attention when he is dressed in woman's clothing than when he dresses in man's clothing, even though it is quite obvious that he is a guy when in drag. Why could this be?

 

Transsexuals are truly the test when it comes to challenging people's definitinion of sexuality. If all the people that get attracted to the same biological sex are "gay", then more than half the population would be "gay." Makes no sense!

[novaseeker]

It is sickening how some gays dismiss bisexual and transsexual people. What is wrong w/ them? Why are they so biphobic and transphobic? What are they afraid of?

 

I don't think it's fear per se ... I think it's a question of not wanting to 'dilute the ranks'. In other words, the idea that gay people would be better off if everyone who was gay was out and open about it, meaning that there would be more gay people who are visible in offices and communities everywhere, and life would be better for gays because that increased visibility would bring with it more acceptance and rights and the like and at the very least would make it harder for people to dismiss gays as something different/exotic/'not in my office/nehighborhood/town/family' etc.

 

Sooo, the idea is that these folks who call themselves 'bi' and 'trans' are really just diluting the ranks of what should be simply 'gay', and, some gay people suspect, are really just kidding themselves that they are not gay and/or putting themselves in a separate category due to a latent homophobia inside themselves (ie, easier to think of themselves as something other than 'gay').

 

I dont think its biphobic or transphopbic, but the needs of the gay community would be served in a narrow sense if everyone who was bi or trans would simply call themselves 'gay' and get on with it because then the 'gay' community would be that much larger, and with size comes influence. It's a political issue.

 

Now there's also a smaller group in the gay community that wants to do exactly the opposite ... namely exclude trans people from the larger LGBT movement ... for a more hardnosed political reason: namely, that they feel it may be easier for gays to make civil rights advances without the 'weirdness' albatross of trans people around their necks. In other words, there is the thinking that society is 'this close' to being accepting of many gay people, but 'men in dresses' ... that image just sets people way back, and could derail things. Hence why you have people like the Washington Blade's editor saying that trans rights provisions should not be included in LGBT-related civil rights legislation.

 

So I generally see it as a political issue, one way or the other, in terms of 'gay politics'.

 

It is really a myth that there are more gay people than there are bisexual people in this world. It is only logical that if sexuality is a spectrum ranging from completely straight to completely gay, then most people are somewhere in-between.

 

I'm not so sure. I don't think there's a lot of reliable data either way. I think what you have said is logical, but one could also say that while it may be logical that most people are to some degree bisexual, it also seems to be the case that most people lean heavily in one direction or the other and may be 'slightly' bisexual. I do think in terms of people I have personally met, that the number of 'equally attracted' bisexual people (ie folks more or less equally attracted to men and women) is very small.

 

By the way, my "gay" friend gets more average guys' attention when he is dressed in woman's clothing than when he dresses in man's clothing, even though it is quite obvious that he is a guy when in drag. Why could this be?

 

Yes, there are a significant number of straight-identifying men who are attracted to trans people precisely because they know they are trans. These folks are an interesting bunch: my guess is that they are either somewhat bisexual or perhaps even repressed homosexual, but find themselves able to explore that side of their sexuality only when the 'target' looks somewhat to a lot like a woman ... perhaps because they have some internalized homophobia or biphobia. It requires quite a bit of self-denial, however, because while the partner may look like a woman, biologically that's not the case and the sex you have with her is gay sex, without question.

 

Transsexuals are truly the test when it comes to challenging people's definitinion of sexuality. If all the people that get attracted to the same biological sex are "gay", then more than half the population would be "gay." Makes no sense!

 

Eh, I think the number of straight-identifying men who are attracted to trans people on a 'known' basis (ie, attracted to them specifically because they are trans) is not as large as that ... there may be many straight men who are curious about it, because it's a sexual curiosity and frankly transsexuals are very interesting ... but the number of men who are actually interested in having sex with them, while significant, isn't, in my experience, anything like 50%.

[JohnnyV]

Hello,

 

I am new to this website but I wanted to respond to this thread.

 

As with everything in life, one person's experiences are never a sound basis to make a generalization. I'm in my thirties, and I know many people who came out as gay in the late 1980s and early 1990s; half of them are now married and have kids. None of them left the gay scene because they were afraid of homophobia or too weak to fight for their rights, despite the strange perception that it is easier to be bisexual than straight (I assure you, it is not.) They left the gay scene because they had spent years looking for a lover and came up with nothing. Somewhere along the way they found a woman, fell in love, and gave up the identity game.

 

I would never take my life experience and attempt to impose it as a formula on the behavior of 6 billion people.

 

If you want to figure out whether there are more bisexual than gay men in the world, stop reflecting on the few dozen people you know. Consult the Kinsey report of 1948 and similar studies that tend to produce the same result: about 2% of the population is exclusively attracted to the same sex, about 50% is exclusively attracted to the opposite sex, and 48% of the world falls in between.

 

Yes, there are about 24 times as many bisexuals as gays. Kinsey had no political agenda, he was writing in 1948. And his sample size was over 30,000 people from all walks of life.

 

In the 1990s, gay leaders said that 1 in 10 people were gay. They arrived at this figure by adding up the people who fell on the Kinsey spectrum from 3-6. But 3, 4, and 5 on that scale are bi, not gay. And the same goes for 1 and 2. Zero is 100% straight. The result of the "1 in 10" figure was disastrous; it led to unrealistic promises to political candidates of a much larger voting base than anyone could deliver. And all this hostility toward bisexuals merely drove lots of the 3,4, and 5 people to abandon the gay cause altogether, leaving the gay community with even less support. Biphobia is political suicide.

 

In history and accross the globe, very few cultures have even had words to describe a "homosexual." That word was invented in the mid-1800s. They usually had cultural practices that involved males maintaining a marriage and also partaking in semi-erotic behavior with other males. If you would like more information on this, read "Symposium" and "Charmides" by Plato, Juvenal's Satire #2, Ovid's Metamorphoses, Boccaccio's Decameron, The Second Book of Samuel in the Old Testament (David & Jonathan), or even Herman Melville's Pierre.

 

I cannot explain why some individuals have more exposure to fraudulent "bis" and other individuals, like myself, have more exposure to "gays turned bi." It would be self-centered and foolish for me to buck thousands of years of cultural history, and studies involving sample sizes in the thousands, and say, "yeah but look at what Joey and Carlos did, that proves there's no such thing as bisexuality."

 

And on another score, I am bisexual and in a committed relationship with a woman. None of my gay friends have ever undermined my relationship or tried to sabotage me. None of them have ever spoken to me with the disrespect that some of the people have shown in previous comments. I supported them and their experiences, so naturally they supported me. They were there beside me when I dated guys, when I dated girls, and when I finally settled with the person I loved. If anyone -- friend or stranger, whatever -- ever had the nerve to tell me to my face that I 1) am lying, or 2) am somehow slighting the gay community by loving a woman, I would ask that person to explain in 2 minuts why (s)he was trying to antagonize me. If I didn't like his/her explanation, I would kick their behind, and I can, I'm a bodybuilder.

 

J

[tobermoon]

This thread hasn't been addressed for almost a week... but i want to take a swing.

 

First of all, I think it's lame to blast the poster for expressing his opinion. I noticed the "judgemental" buzzword thrown around a bit and, well, it's kinda hypocritical. I'm not saying, however, that I agree with his conclusions outright.

 

It is my belief that there are a considerable number of men and women that have bi-curious and bisexual tendencies, and most of these claim to be completely straight. Certainly the bell-curve theory seems to be valid in this case. Aside from that, there are a great number of people that believe calling one's self bisexual is somehow more socially acceptable(perhaps more so with women) and thus, easier to proclaim initially.

 

The greater problem is more regional and even generational, however. I'm 32, grew up in a completely different and conservative, suburban community. When I was in highschool there weren't really but maybe a couple "out" people in a couple thousand students. Things now, even here, are dramatically different. Being gay/bi is almost completely accepted(in school) and in some cases popularized by teenagers. Because of my background I wasn't comfortable coming out to my friends until I was 28, and could never tell my folks. This may seem as some kind of tangent, but i'm really just trying to illustrate that things aren't quite the same in all places and times. Let alone some silly outdated Kinsey study from 1948...

 

I guess I just want to say that hopefully people aren't misrepresenting themselves to be more "popular". (I'm not suggesting thats whats going on here, just anywhere) This was a popular fad in colleges in the early nineties, I woundn't want to see a revival.

 

I'm gay, maybe not completely, but certainly enough not to call it something else.

[SarCareBear]

this forum is quite interesting...

 

in all, i think everyone knows deep down that labels mean nothing. you will feel what you feel, and that is that. you will be both emotionally and physically attracted to different people in your life, frankly i've felt a mix for both guys and girls. and being so young, it is hard for me to call that anything other than bisexual, for now at least. everyone has their reasons for choosing to nail or evade a label on their sexuality - as long as you're being honest with yourselves and your partners (as others have said), it's not a problem.

 

i don't think it would be a bad thing to just be gay, and im sure many self-proclaimed bisexual people agree with me - but i personally don't want to shut the door on the possibility that it's just not true. respect people who are still growing into themselves, we don't need any more hate in the world