Raising the odds of someone falling in love with you.

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

This is a few suggestions that I have found helpful. There is no magic in dating. No definate strategy. There is only odds.

This can help the odds for either gender.

Just a little background on the author Tracy Cox who is being quoted from her very useful book Super Flirt.

Tracy Cox is recognized by scientists, writers, professors, and philosophers to be both genetically and culturally the most sexy and beautiful woman over thirty-five in Britain today.

Taken is a quote from her book superflirt (I only removed the advice on this part that I found helpful and agreed with here).

---------Some people will read this and think what I'm suggesting is wrong. I admit it's about manipulating and meddling with people's emotions. Most particularly, people you wish to God would meddle with you. In an ideal world, I'd agree. It would be preferable if everyone you wanted just fell in your lap, without having to play games. Unfortunately, real life doesn't always work that way.

Sometimes you can spend six months living, breathing, dripping, drooling, loving and lusting after someone with zero result. And it's when that happens that the techniques that follow suddenly seem like a gift from heaven. Besides, it's not like I'm proposing black magic or suggesting any of these techniques will force someone to fall in love with you against their will. (If they did, I'd currently be shacked up with Brad Pitt.) What they will do though is nudge the odds a lot higher in your favor. Is that really so bad? I don't think so. Go on, keep reading. You know you want to...

Hang Around Lots...but Then Be Unavailable

The more you interact with someone, the more they'll like you, says David Lieberman, a U.S. expert in human behavior. He's right actually. Several studies show repeated exposure to practically any stimulus makes us like it more (the only time it doesn't hold true is if our initial reaction to it is negative). So forget about being aloof, evasive, and unavailable in the beginning. Instead, find lots of excuses to spend time with him.

Now, pay attention, because this is the tricky part. Just when you're convinced you've won them over and they like you, start being a little less available. And then even less, until they hardly see you at all. You've now effectively instigated the "law of scarcity." We all know this one: people want what they can't have and by constantly being available, you diminish your value. If every time you walked outside your front door there was a huge pile of diamonds to step over, you'd hardly see them as precious would you? The law of scarcity only makes them want you. Be around and then not around and they'll want and like you. I'm stating the obvious here, but liking someone is important. We talk endlessly about chemistry, passion, sexual attraction, and even more about love, yet "like" rarely gets mention. Opposites don't attract long-term; we search for similarities in a partner. Most of us can't see the point in hanging around friends we don't like, so why do it with a lover? --------------

This of course means you have to be the friend first. Being available does not mean being a loser who has nothing better to do other than to talk to your crush. Have a life! Have several options! Do this while make that emotional connection. And if it happens, this advice can improve your chances.

Of course people, esp women, will talk about doing it naturally.

I very unscientifcally found that they are less likely being the ones just being stuck as friends. I also might add that I strongly believe Tracy isn't right about everything. Some of her advice I still think is outright silly.

But then nobody is right about everything, least of all me.

And this particular advice I have observed working successfully. For most of you it will seem the oldest trick in the book. Tracy was a trickle in her father when the first person thought of this. But it has very strong uses.

[Cadence308]

What about when you don't see the object of your affections for an extended length of time, but communicate via email and some things change and they seem to dislike you now because of some things said on email that were taken out of context? How can you win them back when you don't know how you can be available to them, like you don't know where to find them without seeming obvious?

 

It sounds like you could be "The Love Doctor."

[lillady898]

On a few different occasions I had this game played on me, and it didn't really work. They'd stop contacting me, and I'm not the type who really enjoys calling people in the beggining of a relationship or friendship or what have you. In public I can go up to a lot of people, but over the phone... No. It's just a bad habit I have yet to break. I don't call much at all until I get very comfortable. So they wouldn't call me, I wouldn't call them, and within the next few days I was over it.

 

 

(Except, I admit, an ex has tried this on me and I fell for it for a while [since I was comfortable with him... Too much]. Then I got smarter than he thought and all the tables were turned. By that point I just didn't care anymore.)

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

I want to make it clear as I mentioned above that no strategy is flawless or perfect for everybody. We are talking math, odds, and different approaches. I am considering other possibilities that are similair to this line of reasoning but are more consistent overall so somebody doesn't feel snubbed. But in life, ANYTHING can happen and is happening somewhere.

This wont ALWAYS work. The reason why there is no absolute strategy is because we as human beings are not absolutes. We are as much feelings and moods as we are personalities and what might work most the time might not work some of the time. So it all comes back to playing the odds.

[Shadows Light]

This wont ALWAYS work. The reason why there is no absolute strategy is because we as human beings are not absolutes. We are as much feelings and moods as we are personalities and what might work most the time might not work some of the time. So it all comes back to playing the odds.

 

Hey Nap.. Great write up. Thanx. I'll look up the author to see if its a good read. You are correct, these strats work... its simple sales/marketing. And they work unless you are savy to them. LOL.

Personally... mauevers such as these amuse me. If I can sus out that they are intentional... then I love seeing the next move being played. Its like watching a chess match from the sidelines.

 

And maybe its because I am the "Sales" person and can see it. I don't know. But I prefer honesty over all else.

[patience]

would you really want to 'trick' someone into falling for you though? either a person falls in love with who you really are, or they don't...it's not really that complicated

[Shadows Light]

Patience.. I agree with you there. Its either there or its not. I just think its an interesting read. And I'm sure it happens lots. I recently had a GF of mine ask me to write her a "LOVE SPELL".... and I refused to do it. "why?" I told her because it was manipulating someone's free will. And what you send out.. comes back to you 10 Fold.

 

And what was it that grandma used to say.... Becareful what you wish for.. you just might get it.

 

Thats why I appreciate honesty. The good, the bad & the ugly. If its up front and to the point..then there isn't a lot of room to missinterpret someone.

[ShySoul]

Tracy Cox is recognized by scientists, writers, professors, and philosophers to be both genetically and culturally the most sexy and beautiful woman over thirty-five in Britain today.

 

That's funny. So academia views her as a model of beauty. But does the common man agree? I'm not seeing it. And notice the conditions, over thirty five and in Britain. Can't wait for that 34 year old who would be in first place to have her birthday so debates can start raging on whose more beautiful. And what about all those ladies not in Britain. Maybe their opinions would be more valuable. Then again, how can you actually prove someone is gentically the most sexy and beautiful person around?

 

I admit it's about manipulating and meddling with people's emotions. Most particularly, people you wish to God would meddle with you. In an ideal world, I'd agree. It would be preferable if everyone you wanted just fell in your lap, without having to play games. Unfortunately, real life doesn't always work that way.

 

Accept, plenty of people have proven that it does work that way. Or do we just ignore the countless people who say love finds you when you aren't even looking. And when you admit that its all about manipulating others, how can you in good conscious even begin to consider this. If there is one thing relationships, dating, love, etc. should not include, its being manipulative.

 

What they will do though is nudge the odds a lot higher in your favor. Is that really so bad? I don't think so. Go on, keep reading. You know you want to...

 

Or it could nudge them right out the door and ruin any chance you will ever have. And that is bad.

 

Just when you're convinced you've won them over and they like you, start being a little less available. And then even less, until they hardly see you at all

 

One, you don't win someone over. Your goal is not to win someone, they are not a prize. Your goal is to be a good person, get to know them, be friends. If things are meant to be, they will be.

 

And from experience, not being around someone can severly damage any relationship possiblity you might have. This is especially true if you do it on purpose.

 

people want what they can't have and by constantly being available, you diminish your value

 

Another expression is more appropriate. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

And this particular advice I have observed working successfully

 

And I have observed it leaving people an emotional wreck because it failed miserable. Sorry, anyone who listens to that garbage deserves to have their hearts ripped to shreads by a person who is fed up with this nonsense and calls them on everything before ending all hope of even being friends. You play games, the games will just play you.

[sidehop]

It's a good write up & very interesting read.

 

But with any relationship a lot of spark and interest do dwindle after awhile and it is that stimulation people lose but also need desperately. That's why I hate getting into habits and make life of a relationship 'routine'.

 

It's not me to play that kind of mind games though...I just can't let someone feel like they are being left alone. That would just kill me.

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

A lot of women want it to be natural. The thing is what she is suggesting is still natural. Do you know how many times we inadvertently do this stuff and it sparks what she is suggestioning?

You CAN'T make somebody fall in love with you if there isn't anything there already.

You CAN't make somebody fall in love with you if they don't want to either.

What this advice is basically doing is nurturing a growing seed that is already there instead of drowning it in a torrential downpour early on so that it kills it and they become "just friends forever."

Ladies you might not realize this, but almost all men play games to woo you. Seriously. Almost all of them. That was sort of a joke alluded to in the movie Hitch.

Of course your gender plays games just as much in a very DIFFERENT way.

You would be shocked and horrified by how much men play games, some of it moral like this advice, some of it immoral.

Bt there is no reason to be horrified.

It isn't artificial it is competition. And rarely will something happen naturally unless the person really wasn't that interested in the beginning.

The people who are constantly straight forward are the ones who often end up being "just friends".

Ladies often punish men for not following this kind of advice and then complain when they do.

The thing is, now more and more women at a slowly rising pace seem to be suffering from a "just friends" scenero, although that just friends is often followed by friends with benifits.

 

Shy, you really should be less judgemental.

When something offends you you should ask yourself why it offends you.

A lot of thought, quotes, and experience goes into this kind of thing.

You are free to have your own viewpoints of course, but nothing is being said to harm anyones mental health.

As far as out of sight, out of mind, that tends to mostly happen during prolonged absense of far too long or if there wasn't much there yet to begin with.

 

The advice here is enhancing what already has come naturally. Most people, me included, if they aren't constantly annyalyzing themselves, tend to take the presense of people for granted before fully digesting what that person means to them.

 

Good men for example often end up in the ' just friends' category because they are seen as not a challenge even when he would be a more suitable choice in every way over the jerk who is the one who gets the dame.

Alot of times people talk about the girl having poor self-esteem.

It's more than that.

Players (men or women) who want to boost their petty little egos,

get more broken hearts not just because they are playing the odds but also because they are unconsciously following Tracy's advice by being available and not available.

It is one of the rarely considered reasons of why the only semi emotionally available player is so much sexier than the unconditional guy or girl. This advice can make those truly nice guys and girls (who are complaining all the time about finishing last) more attractive and more able to compete.

 

I believe what people call natural is actually unnatural and is only considered natural because that is what society has prepped them to believe in part through plays, books, movies and television.

What is natural: To fall for a very close friend who you have a lot in common with and who understands you.

What is unnatural: what we have now. The emotionally unavailable guy or girl who really isn't a friend or honest who is sexy because they are unavailable. Why are they unavailable? Cuz they are either damaged or so

busy focused on as many possible mates at once for their own ego that they thereforeeee appear naturally more challenging.

The consequence: More rejections while people are busy searching for that more permanent healthy relationship.

This advice isn't dishonest. And it isn't going to define a future relationship.

It is simple competition. What does it mean?

That we should all be busy "getting a life" and we should on some occasions take our time getting back to a potential lover unless there's an emergency.

 

This goes out to everybody but esp the ladies and idealistic nice guys. If you wanna watch movies where the kinda thing happens that she is suggesting watch Love & Sex, Swingers, and first half of Hitch.

You might say oh those are just hollywood movies.

The difference between those hollywood movies and movies like Alot Like Love is that the jokes are less based on romantic "oh that's so sweet but'll never happen" than they are based on people laughing and saying "Oh jesus who hasn't experienced that?" and shuddering.

 

Don't knock this advice if it helps improve your own life. seriously.

 

(NOTE: This advice is to help you get into a relationship. Not help you once you are already there. Games, even trivial ones, are not healthy during relationships since the obligations, expectations and dynamics have completely changed. Once you are in a relationship the idea is to solidify it through communication and intimate interaction while giving someone their own personal space that everybody needs.)

[Markers]

And I have observed it leaving people an emotional wreck because it failed miserable. Sorry, anyone who listens to that garbage deserves to have their hearts ripped to shreads by a person who is fed up with this nonsense and calls them on everything before ending all hope of even being friends. You play games, the games will just play you.

 

 

funny, I used to do exactly as you tell people to do, Shysoul. It wen't 100% wrong. Now that I combine advice like what was given above with the person I am, I'm getting results.

 

Anyone who listens this "garbage", and understands it - not just read it and think it's all about being sadistic heartbreakers - and then goes by it, will get results. It's not manipulation for me at least, I'm not really in control of anyone's emotions, I simply try to nudge feelings the way I want them to be. I don't try any of this stuff to girl I don't like, I'm not leading anyone on, not trying to break as many hearts as possible. You can go by the "garbage" and be a good guy if you want.

 

Personally I can't just look at things that are badly and think "yeah, my love life is messed up, but I won't do anything because it would be considered manipulation". No, I go and do something about it.

 

 

I'm not putting down Shysoul's advice, feel free to take it if you like. Just remember that I don't think attraction is something that just magically appear and that the hottest chick in your class will have this massive crush to you if you're being super nice to her 24/7. I have proved that to be right (proved that to myself) in my life.

[ShySoul]

Shy, you really should be less judgemental.

When something offends you you should ask yourself why it offends you.

 

Nothing wrong with judging, everyone does it pretty much all the time. The problem is when your not being fair in your evaluations, and I've given all of this much thought. I know what works and what doesn't work. And you yourself knows how much everything I say is working, we've talked about. This offends me because its based off of superfical judgements that deny the heart and soul of who we are as human beings. It's twisting the very foundation of what love is. Love is about opening yourself to someone, two people sharing themselves and being free together. That is the exact opposite of the games and manipulation I continually read about from site after site. I have seen more hurt in relationships then you know. I have to believe theres hope for more, that real love is greater then all this stuff. And when you find that real love, it will change you. It will make you better, better then all this stuff. It's an experience that none of these studies or tips or whatever can even begin to come close to.

 

funny, I used to do exactly as you tell people to do, Shysoul. It wen't 100% wrong. Now that I combine advice like what was given above with the person I am, I'm getting results.

 

You gave up to soon. I make no claims that my ideas are quick and will get you in something overnight. If thats what your looking for, fine. Try something else. But when you want something that is forever, something that lasts beyond the end of time.... you know what you need to do.

 

It's not manipulation for me at least, I'm not really in control of anyone's emotions, I simply try to nudge feelings the way I want them to be. I don't try any of this stuff to girl I don't like, I'm not leading anyone on, not trying to break as many hearts as possible.

 

Nudging is a polite way of saying manipulating. It's all rationalizing your behavior. If you really liked the girl you would have more respect then to pull this stuff. You may not be trying to break hearts, but you are playing with their hearts and messing with there emotions. Any real man wouldn't dream of doing that.

 

Fine, do whatever you want. But when your all alone and miserable, when you meet a girl who does this crap to you and you realize its not so nice when the tables are turned, remember that that was exactly what you were asking for. You made your bed, lie in it.

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

Shy If a girl did this to me and she was somebody who was capable of being a healthy great relationship I wouldn't be okay with her doing it I would HOPE she would do it to me.

No, there isn't anything wrong with judging. What I am suggesting is that your such an idealist it closes you off to so many possibilities.

 

And you yourself knows how much everything I say is working, we've talked about ---- What you tell me doesn't change any of my opinions nor do I think you go about things in the manner that I think is usually best.

Things are early for you. I hope you are lucky but that doesn't mean your right. The problem is, what you tell me shy is taken in confidence so rather than say anything you may or may not want me to talk about publicly about your private life, I avoid debating those specifics.

It isn't my business to talk about. So I stick to the examples i have given.

[Markers]

 

Nudging is a polite way of saying manipulating. It's all rationalizing your behavior. If you really liked the girl you would have more respect then to pull this stuff. You may not be trying to break hearts, but you are playing with their hearts and messing with there emotions. Any real man wouldn't dream of doing that.

 

Fine, do whatever you want. But when your all alone and miserable, when you meet a girl who does this crap to you and you realize its not so nice when the tables are turned, remember that that was exactly what you were asking for. You made your bed, lie in it.

 

I disagree. Nudging emotions isn't big deal at all, everyone does it all the time, all the time. We say things to make things happen, we say "pass me the salt" if we want salt, we say things to make people like us - sounds natural to me. I said I really don't have control of situation.. there's so much of the situation that I can't know and that way can't control. It's very narrow area where I can nudge emotions, and it's only a step to get a chance to open the area.. if I get it wider open (meaning, if I get into a relationship) I pretty much have to let all just flow, because I can't dedicate all my life to making plans of "manipulating others".

 

I think though that breaking hearts is pretty much the same as playing with hearts and messing with their emotions. I don't do this, especially not to anyone who I'm not interested of. Like I said, I don't dream of controlling anyone.

 

Assume I'd do that and got into relationship, I'd be forced to stop such manipulation and that would be the end of relationship. I don't want that, that's what seems to be so hard to understand for you, this is NOT about controlling people in some weird Dark Side of the Force Dominator-Magic way. I can't decide that "this and this girl falls in love with me.. now." and then it would happen. I can only make myself to appear more attractive - that way nudge their feelings (don't necessarily mean physical attractiveness here).

 

 

If someone does play with me, fine - games can be detected. Seems like you're scared of the fact someone comes and breaks your heart. You should be stronger, more indifferent, so that it wouldn't be so easy to play you and hurt you. Life is not easy, people will use you, no matter what you do.

 

Also, I tell you this once more, I don't play games or attempt to use people. I try to make the people I'm attracted to to be attracted to me. Goal is a relationship. If a girl who's attracted to me tries to make me be attracted to her, sounds good. If she succeeds, we end up together, attracted to eachother. Maybe that's not what you want from a relationship, but that's exactly what I want.

[ShySoul]

What I am suggesting is that your such an idealist it closes you off to so many possibilities.

 

Every choice is a door. It opens up some possibillities, and closes off others. Experience has given me a peek behind the door of the choices you suggest, and what I saw was nothing I want to be a part of. The door that I chose, it leads to a heaven and paradise most probably have not conceived. I had this vision, this dream of how things could be for so long. And when you dream a dream like that, you can't go back or settle for anything else.

 

As I have said before, I'm a realistic optomist. I know how things are, but I know they don't have to be that way. I don't expect anyone to understand, I don't expect people to see. But I have to continue saying it and hoping they will. It's the calling of my heart, and I must follow.

 

Things are early for you. I hope you are lucky but that doesn't mean your right.

 

I've always been one to make the impossible possible. I fight for what is right, fight for a better way. I know, I feel in my very being I am right... and rather the entire world or even the universe itself is against me, I'll prove myself right.

 

Seems like you're scared of the fact someone comes and breaks your heart. You should be stronger, more indifferent, so that it wouldn't be so easy to play you and hurt you. Life is not easy, people will use you, no matter what you do.

 

Why be scared of something that has already happened? Why be afraid of what you already know? No, I don't need to be stronger. I am strong. I am stronger then most. I should have broken long ago, I should be like all of you claiming that the world is a cold place where people use and manipulate you. I should have given up and figured that if I can't beat them, might as well join them. People put me done, I laugh at it cause I know that they are only doing it to mask their insecurities. What I say strikes a chord with them, but they can't handle it. So they have to put me down instead. Put others down to build themselves up. I laugh at the absurdity of what they say, crack a silly joke to show they can't beat me done. Then I come roaring back picking their words to shreads. And then I just feel sorry for them. Sorry that they are so weak they have to use others. I fight for a better world, what nobler cause can their be?

 

I don't play games or attempt to use people. I try to make the people I'm attracted to to be attracted to me. Goal is a relationship. If a girl who's attracted to me tries to make me be attracted to her, sounds good. If she succeeds, we end up together, attracted to eachother. Maybe that's not what you want from a relationship, but that's exactly what I want.

 

Your goal is a relationship. It's not as dispicable as wanting sex or to get the girl. But it still doesn't get to the heart of what we really want. Why do we want a relationship? We want it for the love and understanding that comes with it. I don't try to attract a girl, because my goal isn't attracting girls or getting a relationship. My goal is to find someone with whom I can share all the love in our hearts and understand each other like no one else can. If I want someone to love and understand me for who I am, if thats my goal.... the only way to do that is to be natural, let my true self out. She will be attracted to me... the real me. Games won't do that. You can't make someone attracted to the very essense of your being, that has to happen on its own.

 

I can't decide that "this and this girl falls in love with me.. now." and then it would happen. I can only make myself to appear more attractive - that way nudge their feelings (don't necessarily mean physical attractiveness here).

 

If you admit you can't control it, why try? Nudging is still trying. If you two are suppose to be together, it will happen and it will happen on its own terms. You don't need to try, you just need to be you and let love take its course. Of course, why listen to the guy with over a half dozen girls developing crushes on him and plenty others flirting with him. I think its my glasses. No one ever listens to the guy with glasses.... 8)

[Markers]

"if you two are suppose to be together, it will happen and it will happen on its own terms. You don't need to try"

 

Oh yeah, I probably don't have to try to get up from bed in the morning, some magical spirit probably drives me up anyway to fulfill my destiny.

 

Games won't do that. You can't make someone attracted to the very essense of your being, that has to happen on its own.

 

If I make small things like being c0cky etc. part of my essense, it happens on its own. It has to be that way, otherwise it sounds fake and won't work.

 

 

Of course, why listen to the guy with over a half dozen girls developing crushes on him and plenty others flirting with him. I think its my glasses. No one ever listens to the guy with glasses.

 

lol

 

 

by the sound of that quote, your judgement might be going badly wrong, I've done that myself. When we have these noble martyr-like ideas, we float far away from reality. I strongly advice you to take a reality check and stop looking at the world through that clicheish rose-colored glass, try asking those people out, see what they do. That's gonna save you from a lot of trouble and pain.

 

And don't try to defend by saying that "asking them out would be against my morals", because what you do has already made these girls to fall for you (if you're right about their feelings), and the fact you don't want them is gonna hurt them. So you're actually no better than we others who "play games", because you hurt people as well and break their hearts.

 

Not going to reply to this thread anymore, seems like big waste of time. I can't make you see things the way I see, you seem to desperately hang on your own idealism. Good luck with it.

 

For everyone reading this, don't take his advice, but don't take mine either. Read whole lot of stuff and make up your own mind and really think about this stuff if you want to get results.

[lillady898]

You don't need to try, you just need to be you and let love take its course.

 

I think you really do need to try. Do you notice how people are on their best behaviors while on dates, and wearning their nicest clothes? These are all things people do when first looking to be with someone. And if you didn't otherwise do these things, many people would write you off thinking you just don't care enough You need to try. You're in control of your own destiny. Sure, I believe in fate, but fate is the outcome controlled by which actions in which YOU choose to do.

 

And surely, when you think about it, those things you do when you first meet someone can be thought as a form of manipulation. If you're wearing dress pants on a first date and usually are in sweatpants, isn't that somewhat lying so someone will like you? If you really think about it, maybe it is. But really, how impressed would someone be if you showed up in sweats? They'd think you didn't care about how you looked around them.

 

Other than that. I don't really disagree with anything else that anyone has stated, because everyone's opinion here is exactly correct. If it's what works for their unique personality and their love life, then so be it. As long as noone is getting hurt in the process. If you're thinking about using any techniques, such as the one Napoleon has stated, then you just need to keep your eyes open a bit more to be sure everyone in fact isn't going crazy or feeling hurt.

[ShySoul]

Oh yeah, I probably don't have to try to get up from bed in the morning, some magical spirit probably drives me up anyway to fulfill my destiny

 

Not a magical spirit, your spirit. It's your heart, your spirit, your determination that drives you. It is your will power and free will. Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing.

 

If I make small things like being c0cky etc. part of my essense, it happens on its own. It has to be that way, otherwise it sounds fake and won't work.

 

Your proud that your essense is one of arrogance. I've yet to encounter someone who truly loves arrogance, yet I know all kinds of people who loves a humble person. Yes, you can't fake something. But the characteristics you have should be aspiring to something higher then things like arrogance and manipulating others.

 

by the sound of that quote, your judgement might be going badly wrong, I've done that myself. When we have these noble martyr-like ideas, we float far away from reality.

 

Sighhhh.... dude, that was a joke. Lighten up. In case you haven't notice I always throw in some silly, off the wall comment like that to give everyone a break from the intense debate going on. Hence I put the smiley face with the glasses, part of the joke. I think for all the take of playing it cool and not caring, your the one who takes things too seriously and does care, while I'm the one who can maintain a balance between firm and fun.

 

I strongly advice you to take a reality check and stop looking at the world through that clicheish rose-colored glass, try asking those people out, see what they do. That's gonna save you from a lot of trouble and pain.

 

Again, if you knew a fraction of my life you would know that its never been rose colored glasses. It's been harsh, its been cruel, its been hurtful. But I'm better then that. Circumstances being what they are, asking them out is not a possibilty, save for one which I already have and who has said she loves me. She loves me, and I know others who honestly care about me even though we can't be together. And it all happened by being my true authentic self, not trying an ounce to get others to like me.

 

and the fact you don't want them is gonna hurt them. So you're actually no better than we others who "play games", because you hurt people as well and break their hearts.

 

I never said that I don't want them, for various reason us being together is not possibly at this time. I do care about these people and they know it. But there is only one girl I love. I have talked it over with them and honestly said how I feel. We are all mature enough to be able to handle it. Yes, there has to be feelings of disappointment and wishing it was different. But because we were open and honest, its not breaking someone's heart. Difference: games are designed to mess with peoples minds and hearts, turning the person into a yo yo being yanked around. This is very likely to lead to a broken heart. I do everything in my power to work things out and avoid a broken heart. Cause a nice guy wouldn't be breaking anyones heart.

 

I think you really do need to try. Do you notice how people are on their best behaviors while on dates, and wearning their nicest clothes? These are all things people do when first looking to be with someone. And if you didn't otherwise do these things, many people would write you off thinking you just don't care enough You need to try. You're in control of your own destiny. Sure, I believe in fate, but fate is the outcome controlled by which actions in which YOU choose to do.

 

And you ever notice that when a couple really gets together that they are completely comfortable wearing any old thing and aren't always watching there manners? It's because a relationship is not based on such artificial things. It is based on whats deeper. First time I met the girl I love, I was wearing the same clothes I normally wear, not dressing to impress. I was polite, but because I always am and believe in being a gentleman at all times. She didn't write me off, she accepted me as me. I have not had to worry about impressing or attracting her, by simple being me and doing what I normally do, she fell in love with me. It happened because she liked the person I am, not because of anything I did to attract her.

 

Yes, we have to do something. And what we should choose to do is to be ourselves and not worry about attracting others. That attraction will come. Then make sure to say how you feel about her. Do that, you'll be fine.

 

If you're wearing dress pants on a first date and usually are in sweatpants, isn't that somewhat lying so someone will like you? If you really think about it, maybe it is. But really, how impressed would someone be if you showed up in sweats? They'd think you didn't care about how you looked around them.

 

What if your both into sports and your date was to go jogging, to a gym, play basketball, or something like that? Think sweats would be approprite, don't you? But if you are going to a fancy restaurant, dress pants work. The important thing is to stay true to you. Odds are you will like somebody that has similar interests to you. So whatever you decide to do on the date will match the interests you have. That's being honest. You'll talk about your hobbies, either before the date or during. And if you say you like sports or are a casual person, then you are being honest and she's going to be able to deduce your dress style. So its not lying.

 

If it's what works for their unique personality and their love life, then so be it.

 

Whatever works... do it. Worst philosophy that has ever developed.

 

This goes beyond what works, getting dates, etc. This goes to the kind of person you are. Can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and be proud of saying you need to play games and manipulate others into liking you?

[lillady898]

I think you really do need to try. Do you notice how people are on their best behaviors while on dates, and wearning their nicest clothes? These are all things people do when first looking to be with someone. And if you didn't otherwise do these things, many people would write you off thinking you just don't care enough You need to try. You're in control of your own destiny. Sure, I believe in fate, but fate is the outcome controlled by which actions in which YOU choose to do.

 

And you ever notice that when a couple really gets together that they are completely comfortable wearing any old thing and aren't always watching there manners? It's because a relationship is not based on such artificial things. It is based on whats deeper. First time I met the girl I love, I was wearing the same clothes I normally wear, not dressing to impress. I was polite, but because I always am and believe in being a gentleman at all times. She didn't write me off, she accepted me as me. I have not had to worry about impressing or attracting her, by simple being me and doing what I normally do, she fell in love with me. It happened because she liked the person I am, not because of anything I did to attract her.

 

Yes, we have to do something. And what we should choose to do is to be ourselves and not worry about attracting others. That attraction will come. Then make sure to say how you feel about her. Do that, you'll be fine.

 

If you're wearing dress pants on a first date and usually are in sweatpants, isn't that somewhat lying so someone will like you? If you really think about it, maybe it is. But really, how impressed would someone be if you showed up in sweats? They'd think you didn't care about how you looked around them.

 

What if your both into sports and your date was to go jogging, to a gym, play basketball, or something like that? Think sweats would be approprite, don't you? But if you are going to a fancy restaurant, dress pants work. The important thing is to stay true to you. Odds are you will like somebody that has similar interests to you. So whatever you decide to do on the date will match the interests you have. That's being honest. You'll talk about your hobbies, either before the date or during. And if you say you like sports or are a casual person, then you are being honest and she's going to be able to deduce your dress style. So its not lying.

 

If it's what works for their unique personality and their love life, then so be it.

 

Whatever works... do it. Worst philosophy that has ever developed.

 

This goes beyond what works, getting dates, etc. This goes to the kind of person you are. Can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and be proud of saying you need to play games and manipulate others into liking you?

 

Please, please, please do not personally attack my character. Because I don't see things 100% as you do, does not mean I play games or manipulate others.

 

You have majorly misconstrude what I had said. Re-read what I posted and think first. I was talking about going on a first date in sewatpants, to say, a movie. Would that be appropriate just because you go to the movies alone is sweatpants? Probably not. If you accidentally run into someone and you're dressed a bit scruffy, (like at the gym) that isn't unacceptable. But what I was merely stating was that first impressions count for everything, whether in love or business. And if you don't look to put any effort, I'm sure you will be shot down almost immediately.

 

And when I was saying the so be it... I was not saying that for manipulation. I was saying it for however way that someone shows someone they're into them, aside from hurting that other person. Manipulation is hurtful, and if it doesn't hurt the other person or force them to do something they otherwise wouldn't do, then it is not manipulation.

 

I am not a philosiphizer and never said I was- Just because people disagree, does not mean they are the dirt you walk on. Allow other people to think differently if they're not being malicious, and don't ask them how they wake up in the morning for it...

[ShySoul]

Never put you down, never directed any comment towards you that would imply that. If you think I did, please point it out and I will explain or apologize. Any frustrations is directed towards the general attitude of thinking you have to play games, not to any person in perticular.

 

You have majorly misconstrude what I had said. Re-read what I posted and think first. I was talking about going on a first date in sewatpants, to say, a movie.

 

You never mentioned a movie, you just said first date. That could be anything so I was saying dress to the occasion, not to impress. But there is also the issue of if you know the person or not. If you do know the person, why would they be impressed by what you wear? Why would they be judging your interest by it? If you had a good time, had fun, interesting conversation, laughed, if he was polite and respectful, had things in common.... you mean your going to think less of him because of the pants he wore? And if you don't really know the guy, same thing applies. It's the whole package that counts. If someone is going to be judging others based upon something that superficial, I really don't think he or she is someone you want to be going out with.

 

Here's an expression: You can't judge a book by its cover.

 

Allow other people to think differently if they're not being malicious, and don't ask them how they wake up in the morning for it...

 

From the comments I've heard, it sure seems malicious. Sorry for voicing my opinions and standing up for morality.

[Markers]

 

Sighhhh.... dude, that was a joke. Lighten up. In case you haven't notice I always throw in some silly, off the wall comment like that to give everyone a break from the intense debate going on. Hence I put the smiley face with the glasses, part of the joke. I think for all the take of playing it cool and not caring, your the one who takes things too seriously and does care, while I'm the one who can maintain a balance between firm and fun.

 

 

Beat me for replying once more.. but maybe you were joking there again, since my comment didn't refer at all to the joke about glasses or anything of the sort - it referred more to the fact that I'm in certain level of disbelief that you would have read your situation right. Some reasons to think that way - you have a lot of girls having crush on you, you say, and also you like them... But it's "not possible".. I'm sorry, everything's not right there. It sounds like "you're nice but I don't like you that way - it's not possible".

 

You actually admit: "others who honestly care about me even though we can't be together." They "honestly care" = you're in friends zone, the spot you're stuck forever. That happened by being your true authentic self; you got lots of friends.

 

I repeat this once more, is it wrong to be an attractive person? If you make attractiveness as a part of your personality, you're attractive just as you are, just the way you like it. If you know what's attractive, is it considered manipulation to pick the one that is more attractive?

 

 

 

"Here's an expression: You can't judge a book by its cover."

 

Maybe you shouldn't, but I did. The way things work - we judge a book by its cover. I want to make sure my cover is attractive enough that people will come and see what's inside. It's no good being a martyr and crying "well they should look inside!"

 

 

"From the comments I've heard, it sure seems malicious. Sorry for voicing my opinions and standing up for morality."

 

I'm sorry, voicing your opinions and standing up for YOUR morality. We don't see things the same way, apparently. Even though my manners weren't good in online forums (don't know the fine details of this foreign language), I do consider myself quite high moral person (christian morals). I don't think it's malicious manipulation to try to appear attractive. Should we walk around in robes and never make eye contact and smile because pretty clothes, eye contact and smile are attractive?

 

 

 

About me being too serious, I admit I'm slightly concerned about the fact there's people like you giving out advice that could be disastrous in wrong hands and might cause a lot of problems for many who simply want to believe what you say about "being nice and getting dates".

 

So many "nice guys" want to believe into what you're saying.. and they appear like little wussies and think they can have dates. Someone needs to wake these people up and it doesn't happen by telling them "be nice, be the most wanted guy in your class".

 

So remember, even though it worked for you, doesn't mean that it would work for others. That's why I'm telling people not to take your advice, but not to take my advice either about girls. It's something everyone must figure out themselves to make it work. You would do well to agree with me here.

[ShySoul]

Beat me for replying once more.. but maybe you were joking there again, since my comment didn't refer at all to the joke about glasses or anything of the sort

 

You write the comments right after you quotes the joke. What am I suppose to think?

 

it referred more to the fact that I'm in certain level of disbelief that you would have read your situation right. Some reasons to think that way - you have a lot of girls having crush on you, you say, and also you like them... But it's "not possible".. I'm sorry, everything's not right there. It sounds like "you're nice but I don't like you that way - it's not possible".

 

It's not possible because of distance, they have other things in their life (major changes) that is occuping there time, they aren't emotional ready for a relationship having been hurt in one recently and I don't think it would be right to try something right now, there are other people in the picture, and the fact that I really do love one girl in particular. My heart has always been with the first girl I met this year. For reasons we don't need to get into, there was a brief period where things were strange between us. In that time I met some other girls. I could have gone for them, they were nice, sweet and we got along great. But it wouldn't have been right if my heart was still thinking of the other girl and I couldn't devote my entire heart to the new girl. As nice as the girls were, it truly wasn't possible and entirely out of unselfish and noble reason.

 

You actually admit: "others who honestly care about me even though we can't be together." They "honestly care" = you're in friends zone, the spot you're stuck forever. That happened by being your true authentic self; you got lots of friends.

 

I don't know what will happen in the future. By staying friends with these girls, maybe something can change and it will become more. I don't know, I'm not thinking or planning anything. More importantly, being my authentic self got the one girl I am in love with to fall in love with me. It got me the most incredible weekend of my life, pure heaven to be able to hold her for hours, sleep by her side, and the most romantic first kiss you can imagine.

 

I repeat this once more, is it wrong to be an attractive person? If you make attractiveness as a part of your personality, you're attractive just as you are, just the way you like it. If you know what's attractive, is it considered manipulation to pick the one that is more attractive?

 

Everone is an attractive person, and the attraction lies not in what they do, but who they are. You don't MAKE attractiveness a part of your personality, it already is. When you try to force yourself to fit the mold of what you think you have to be like to be attractive, it usually distorts what is really attractive about a person.

 

More about me being too serious, I admit I'm slightly concerned about the fact there's people like you giving out advice that could be disastrous in wrong hands and might cause a lot of problems for many who simply want to believe what you say about "being nice and getting dates".

 

And I am equally concerned there are people like you giving advice that I know will lead to disaster. Unless you want to discount my experiences and the experiences of a number of people who have been in long successful marriages who have told me the very things I am saying.

 

So many "nice guys" want to believe into what you're saying.. and they appear like little wussies and think they can have dates. Someone needs to wake these people up and it doesn't happen by telling them "be nice, be the most wanted guy in your class".

 

I'm not telling them to be the most wanted guy in there class. If anything I have stated several times that my way won't get you mountains of dates. But it will get you dates and will get you a successful relationship. Those who are "nice guys" understand this and know that ultimately they end up where they want to be... happy and with someone who honestly cares about them. And most importantly, they will have stayed true to there morals, and been the kind of honest, humble, good hearted person they are.

 

So remember, even though it worked for you, doesn't mean that it would work for others. That's why I'm telling people not to take your advice, but not to take my advice either about girls. It's something everyone must figure out themselves to make it work. You would do well to agree with me here.

 

Except, your wrong. I don't agree with something that violates my very conscious. You have to look in yourself yes. But if you honestly think you need to play games and make others attractive... you need to reexamine your beliefs, values, and priorities.

[lillady898]

I just want to make it very clear that by no means was what I personally saying is alright to do, is to hurt someone. I merely stated that if you do anything to have someone reciprocate your feelings or what have you, be sure your eyes are open to what they're feeling. If it is something that is hurting someone (or may potentially hurt someone), then it should most defiently be stopped.

 

And no, I agree, don't judge people based on what they wear. I wasn't saying that at all. I suppose the point I was truly trying to get at was that if you look like you put NO effort at all, noone is going to want to be with you. If you like to wear a polka dot t-shirt with plaid pants, then awesome. That's who you are. But if you wear the same thing you go to bed in when meeting up with someone, that's just wrong. I'm not saying to not be you, but to just put effort into yourself, as if the other person is important enough to do that for. And yes, this more important to do personality-wise.

 

You don't have to apologize to anyone for standing up what you believe in(I understand your apology is sarcatic, yes) , but the tone in what you say it... you might. I get into heated debates with many people about various differnt topics in which I think goes against morale. When you do this, however, you have to remember that the opposing person feels just as strongly about their subject as you do. So, stand up for morality. But always to do it in the most respectful manner, otherwise, noone will listen to you anyways and you may as well say nothing at all.

[ShySoul]

Maybe you shouldn't, but I did. The way things work - we judge a book by its cover. I want to make sure my cover is attractive enough that people will come and see what's inside. It's no good being a martyr and crying "well they should look inside!"

 

Some of the best books I've read has had plain covers. There was even one book I was bored out of my mind with after the first chapter. But I kept to it. And I ended up loving the book. On the other hand, there have been plenty of books or movies that seem great based upon first look but have nothing deeper. I want to be the former.

 

I'm not being a matyr. If people choose to be superifical, fine. I don't want to associate with them. If your going to base rather or not you want to get to know me by my cover, I'm not going to be likely to find you attractive. I'll talk to ya, cause I'm polite and I'll give people chances. But the odds are against you that I will discover someone I can really find to be someone I would find attractive. But if the person displays characteristics of not caring about appearance or the exterior, that instantly makes them more attractive in my book. They get straight to what really matters.

 

I merely stated that if you do anything to have someone reciprocate your feelings or what have you, be sure your eyes are open to what they're feeling. If it is something that is hurting someone (or may potentially hurt someone), then it should most defiently be stopped.

 

Agreed. I just think its better to not do things that could end up hurting someone. There are plenty of ways to show your feelings and have them reciprocated without ever even trying. When you are attracted to someone and like them, it will show without you ever having to think about it. It comes off naturally.

 

But if you wear the same thing you go to bed in when meeting up with someone, that's just wrong. I'm not saying to not be you, but to just put effort into yourself, as if the other person is important enough to do that for

 

Well, I think most people don't wear there sleeping clothes during the day. You don't need to put effort into yourself, just be yourself. The effort you put in is in how you act, making sure you are polite and wanting her to have a good time. Even that shouldn't take effort, cause you should naturally want to do that anyone and it will naturally happen.

 

So, stand up for morality. But always to do it in the most respectful manner, otherwise, noone will listen to you anyways and you may as well say nothing at all.

 

Don't know if you've read many of my other posts, lillady898, but I have tried my hardest to keep a friendly and civil mood even after I have been personally attacked. So if for once I stand firm and seem to have a heated tone, can you blame me? Add in that I've been under stress with other issues, and to have a short fuse in one topic compared to the countless times I've been patient, lighthearted, and quick to crack a joke at my own expense.... I don't have a problem with it.

[lillady898]

I've actually read a lot of your previous posts, so I really do understand where your frustration is coming from. And actually when you posted the last post in the more friendly manner in which you did, I actually raised an eyebrow and thought about what you were saying. I think people listen to a lot of what you say, but do you think anyone would tell you that?