Hope75 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Point taken Brando. I just hope that Gradle can see that although it's fine to feel hurt and upset if J is moving on faster than her, it's not his fault, just as it is not her fault, and she is the one with the power to learn to satisfy herself. Make more sense? Link to comment
brando Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I understand Hope. And you are right. We are responsible for our own happiness, and no one can give that to us. It is a hard job sometimes to be responsible for your own happiness, and when people get into relationships, this "inside job" somehow is abandoned by some. Thats why i feel it is important to spend some time alone after a breakup, especially after a ltr, perhaps over 5 years. It is easy to lose oneself in a relationship, especially if one had insecurities and self esteem issues. Im sure Gradle will be fine. in time. Link to comment
gradle Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 brando, hope, echo, as always thanks so much for your helpful advice, i really appreciate it....i've managed to hold my tongue and stay away, as difficult as it has been. one of my friends made an important input, she said he was probably wondering about me more than i was wondering about him. how do i know if htat's true? his away messages always sort of clue me into what he's up to, mine are quite cryptic and never change, like "crazy day!". this morning when i woke up i received an IM from him: "Hi, I hope you have been doing well. Are you moving to DC soon? How is all that working out? Give me an IM or an e-mail sometime soon. Goodnight." i noticed he didn't mention a phone call...he's probably scared that i'll be angry again, or that i'll interrupt whatever he has going on w/ whatever new chick. i'm so tempted to email him, and ask him if his asian fetish is fulfilled, or if he's gotten what he's wanted. i can't help it, i want to know if he's seeing someone. he leaves for california for a few days today. i'm not sure when i should email him, or if i would be strong enough to not be so angry. i'm not sure what to do....part of me wonders if i should email him at all. maybe i should wait till he comes back and just IM him. i'm really confused now. Link to comment
PlayBrat Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Gradle...... IF...Thats's a BIG IF...you DO ask him if he is seeing someone else...because face it, sometimes we just HAVE to know. Please, keep it LIGHT and playful. There are ways of finding things out without coming off like a psychotic ex. Make it sound like a joke..or be coy. Something like.."I have been wondering about you lately..just about some things we used to do, and I hate to say, I would be envious if some lucky girl has snagged you already". See? You can make the statement...without accusing him, and leaving it open for him to reply...IF he wants to..but you cannot DEMAND an answer. Make him feel OKAY with telling you, without thinking you will be devastated or fall apart. I totally understand how this would bug you Gradle..it would bug me too...but you are NOT in a relationship anymore. The less defensive you make him feel....the more he will WANT to tell you. It works believe me... Link to comment
gradle Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 thanks play! thanks for understanding, i'm not superwoman, i don't know how strong i can be just yet...i'm working on it. i know i have to keep my email light and simple... part of me is just scared this is jsut a pity email, and i wonder how i can turn teh tables around and make myself the bigger person out of this whole thign, you know? Link to comment
gradle Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 k, so this is what i emailed him: "I got your IM this morning. I'm doing fine. All of the DC stuff is working out pretty well, they actually increased my salary even more for no apparent reason, so that's good. and not too long before I'll be there permanently, although i'm actually a little sad, i'm going to miss boston and everyone here, i've been having a pretty good time and i just hope that dc can live up to it. How have you been? what have you been up to? have you finished your thesis yet? how is everyone? your fam? your sister's visit? and i have to admit, I have been wondering about you lately..just about some things we used to do, and I hate to say, i was wondering if some girl has snagged you already. anyways, let me know how everything is going, don't worry, i'll drop off your wireless router sometime before i leave." i didn't want to wait too long, b/c hten he'd know for sure that i cared still... and i didni't want to email right away, for the same reason. please tell me if i did ok? Link to comment
PlayBrat Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Well...you can start by BEING the bigger person, and not making demands or accusations. Think of how you would LIKE to portray yourself to him...and project that in your email. J needs to KNOW you will survive HAPPILY with or without him..THAT is an attractive quality. He needs to know no matter WHAT he says to you, you can handle it with dignity and grace....and NOT make him feel guilty for his decisions. Simply put..he needs to know he is FREE and you can accept that. Human psycology really is NOT that hard to figure out. The less you hold onto something and the more you let go....the more it seems to remain there. Everyone needs to feel free...or they can never FULLY appreciate being where they are. Make sense?? Link to comment
PlayBrat Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 That's good Gradle...but if you haven't mailed it already...I would change part of it...the part where you said you were wondering if someone snagged him....I would change it...to.. "I hate to admit, but I would be envious if some lucky girl has snagged you ....ALWAYS do it in a playful way. This is paramount..because that is appealing. He needs to know the mood is INDEED light..... Otherwise, it's good... Link to comment
gradle Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 yes, i suppose so but i really want to know play, this really hurts. for him to dump me and just see someone else after all that we had. that's so painful. i'm in so much pain. Link to comment
PlayBrat Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I understand that Gradle..I do..... I am not going to berate you for having human feelings. As I said I would feel exactly the same. However...you will not find out what you need to know by demanding anything....or falling apart. Remember...if you ask the question...you have to be prepared for the answer. Are you SURE you are prepared to hear that? If you aren't prepared to handle that ....you can hold off. If you think KNOWING will give you more closure and in some way help you move on...then ask. As we have all said though......J is well within his rights to be seeing someone else if he is.....as you are. Keep that in mind. Link to comment
Hope75 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hi Gradle, so did you send the email off yet, or is there still time to make the changes that Playbrat mentioned? I agree with her, that there are some times where you feel you MUST know, but you also have to be ready for the answer, and it all depends on how you ask whether or not he will decide to tell you, or tell you the truth, IF that is even the case! ( that he is seeing someone new.) His being distant from you lately could just be a progression of the breakup--part of moving on. If people were to break up and continue to call each other regularly and hang out and email all the time.... well then you get to wondering, what was the point of the breakup? (unless of course there is question and intention on both sides to want to get back together.) Don't forget that you both have had some time apart and if he were to be seeing someone else, that does not mean he lied to you about why you guys broke up, he can change his mind as easily as you or I could. As Playbrat said ( I believe it was her), sometimes they will softsoak the reason because they know it will hurt you and they really don't want to hurt you. So I guess my questions to you now are: What will you do if he tells you that he is seeing someone? Will you believe him if he says he is not seeing someone? Are you truly ready to know the truth, and accept it? What is an acceptable amount of time following the breakup that you feel he should remain single? Why was that time frame different for you with C? Do you feel at this point that J owes you anything? Just curious to see where you are coming from, is all. Take care! Hope Link to comment
gradle Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 ugh hope, we all know that i'm not ready for him to see someone else, it would crush me. i thought the email was decent though and i did send it, i didn't want to refer to the possible girl as lucky, b/c i don't really think she is, she's going to get dumped rather soon if they are seeing each other...plus, he's a jerk for what he did to me. as far as your questions... What will you do if he tells you that he is seeing someone? i'll be really really upset and ask him why he lied to me.. Will you believe him if he says he is not seeing someone? probably not Are you truly ready to know the truth, and accept it? i want to know the truth, i deserve it, i've always been truthful to him. as far as accepting it, that's a different story... What is an acceptable amount of time following the breakup that you feel he should remain single? 1 year or atleast till he's in California. Why was that time frame different for you with C? b/c he dumped me b/c he wanted to be alone, i never said i wanted to be alone. b/c he made me feel so bad and undesirable, adn i never did that to him and C has helped me feel better tremendously, where as j has nothign to feel better about other than being a jerk to me. Do you feel at this point that J owes you anything? i think he owes me truth and respect, b/c that was how for the most part unti the end the relationship was, and i dont' think i've done anythign so bad that i deserve anythign different. i always treated him well. Link to comment
PlayBrat Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Ok...objectively...you are nowhere NEAR being over J. There are a LOT of unanswered questions that you may never know the answer to. I think that the ONLY way your heart is going to heal completely, is for J to be gone for quite a while and for you to have NO contact. I don't believe, from what I have read that anything J tells you is going to satisfy you..because he DID break up with you,....and god knows I know that hurts. You may HAVE to bring closure within yourself....because I think J DOES have just enough feelings for you that he does NOT want to cause you more pain and suffering. He probably does not realize that his "occasional" crumbs of attention are more detrimental than helpful to you. He needs to be "cruel to be kind" in a sense...and just let you move on with your life. As you need to with him. I know this hurts but I am trying to give you honest, constructive advice. Link to comment
Hope75 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 HI Gradle, I'm sorry this is still so hard on you. ((BIG HUG)). You really have come a long way, and I hope that you recognize that and give yourself credit. Breakups are hard, particularly when you feel so dependant on the guy. As far as my questions, I guess what I really wanted was for you to take a good hard look at your reasoning, and see if it really makes sense to you. What will you do if he tells you that he is seeing someone? i'll be really really upset and ask him why he lied to me. Do you really think that would be the case? Have you considered that IF he is seeing someone else (and this is a big IF) that when he broke up with you, he did want to be alone? How about that after some time alone, he decided me might want to date again, after all? What about that he might not even be dating at all? Will you believe him if he says he is not seeing someone? probably not If this is the case, why even ask him at all? In your head, he is tried, convicted and sentenced. What difference will it make to you, if say, he does say no, that he isn't dating anyone, if you aren't going to believe it anyway? Are you truly ready to know the truth, and accept it? i want to know the truth, i deserve it, i've always been truthful to him. as far as accepting it, that's a different story... What will knowing do for you then? Will it help you to move on? Or will it just hurt you and make this worse for you? What is an acceptable amount of time following the breakup that you feel he should remain single? 1 year or atleast till he's in California. Why 1 year? Do you really think that is fair? Do you expect him to wait until you are over him to move on? What if the situation were reversed and you wanted out of a long term relationship. What if you were then interested in dating someone else? Would you wait a year? Remember, the two of you are moving on at different speeds, and may not feel the same. He broke up with you, that means any exclusive rights to him you had no longer exist. He, just as you, has the right to see whomever he pleases now. You may not like it, but at least he had the decency to break up with you first. Beyond that, he doesn't have to do any more. Why was that time frame different for you with C? b/c he dumped me b/c he wanted to be alone, i never said i wanted to be alone. b/c he made me feel so bad and undesirable, adn i never did that to him and C has helped me feel better tremendously, where as j has nothign to feel better about other than being a jerk to me. Gradle, I've totally done the, "But he said...(enter reason here)... so he can't change his mind or go back on that....." reasoning myself, so I know where you are coming from. The sad fact for us is that he can move on if he's ready to. He ended the relationship for a reason, he didn't feel he wanted to be together with you anymore. That doesn't mean that neither of you has the right to move on. The other thing about this is, part of what's going on with you is that you depended so much on J for your own value and worth. He felt smothered and eventually left. Then you feel worthless, and not because you are, but because you have to change your way of thinking. So you go to C to boost your self esteem. Seeing C is fine, but don't hinge your very worth on it. You are a warm, friendly, attractive, wonderful woman on your own. You don't know how to recognize your own worth. Do you feel at this point that J owes you anything? i think he owes me truth and respect, b/c that was how for the most part unti the end the relationship was, and i dont' think i've done anythign so bad that i deserve anythign different. i always treated him well. Gradle, when people break up, it's always sticky, always emotional, always painful, and we muck through it the best we can. When we end the relationship, anything we "owed" as part of a healthy commited union no longer exists. While we'd like our exes to give us honesty and respect, they don't owe us that anymore. Put J in his place, as your ex boyfriend. You owe him nothing, and he owes you nothing. However, what you owe yourself is the right to move on and be happy with your own life, and to no longer care what J does in his life. Don't you think you deserve happiness? You do. Let J go and live his life, and let yourself go to live your life. Link to comment
annie24 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hi gradle - well... people change, you know that. He didn't like pancakes, now he does. I've never in my entire life had an inclination to go to morocco, but one day, I literally woke up, and decided to go to morocco, so I booked plane tickets that day. I'm going in 2 weeks on vacation. So.... who knows what's going on in his head.... .... for the purposes of your healing, I think you should assume that he has moved on and you should too. You've been dating C also, so if he were to date someone new, it would be totally fine -- like the others said, fair game. It sucks, but if he decided he wants to date someone new for a while, it's fine..... Human emotions are so fluid... I wanted a relationship a few weeks ago, and now I don't. My old roommate's boyfriend broke up with her because he was "afraid of committment." Of course, 4 months later, he married the exact type of woman he swore he would never date. J may be the same way. Well.... I don't know of this is helping... but i do agree, I think a period of NC may help you clear your head.... Link to comment
gradle Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 thanks for all of your input, i know, this moving on thing is so hard and i'm definitely not hte strongest person in the world...it's just tougher when i want to keep the lines of communicatino open so if there is a chance in the future it would be easier... so i left my phone at home today by accident. and when i got back there was a message from J on it... he just said he wouldn't have a chance to return my email so he called meand he was stuck in atlanta on his way to san fran to look for a place to live...he just said he wants to know how much longer i'm going to be in boston and if i want to call him... i don't know how to take that...he didn't need to call, i wasn't expectign a reply for a few days, i knew he was going to san fran... maybe he was doing this so he wouldn't really have to reply to my email? but isn't a phone call even more personal? ughhhh i'm gonna try and go see C tonight, get my mind off of J i do'nt think i should call him tonight, but then i'm busy all weekend, i have a visitor and then i'm going to DC for a few days to look for a place to live, so maybe i should? Link to comment
PlayBrat Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Hey Gradle.... I think you try to talk yourself into the worst possible scenerio as far as J is concerned..I KNOW because I did the EXACT same thing to my recent ex!!! It drove him UP THE WALL. If I didn't hear from him or he didn't say what I THOUGHT he should I would make crazy accusations or assumptions, and truthfully, he just got tired of it. I admit...What I did was probably a self fullfilling prophecy. I set myself up for failure...so that's what happened. This is what YOU need to avoid doing. Don't assume the worst. I was cheated on by my husband with my best friend early last year....and truthfully it nearly destroyed me. I should have dealt with things then...but instead I got involved with another man (my ex)...and this is where we are now. I don't mean to hijack your thread...but the point I am making is that I should have dealt with my insecurity issues LONG before I even gave another guy a thought. Period. I would have been a MUCH better partner. Personally I think you hanging out with C is not a very good idea..because you seem to be transferring those "needy" feelings over to C when J isn't available or when you're feeling down. This is WHY it is important that you spend alone time..and find who YOU are. Think about it... Link to comment
gradle Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 hi play, geez, i don't know what i would have done if i were in your situation, i think i would have chopped up my friend first and then gone after my husband... but seriously, i don' tknow how you handled that. you mus be a very strong person, b/c that would drive me NUTS! as far as tranferring feelings, you are totally right, i know i am doing it, and i think C knows too, i think he's actually starting to like me like me.... but i also know virtually no one else in boston, and i'm on ly here for a bit until i can be with my friends again, so i'd like to keep this up until i leave, and then i can have time without a man....i know i'll get to the point where i want to be alolne, and it will be when i've had enough of j and our situation, but until then, i'm not completely ready....i know C and i are never going to last and i'm prepared for it, so is C... i just want to really make it through the next few weeks... on a good note, tomorrow is my last day of work! WOOHOO! on a bad note, i'm sort of sad to be leaving everyone at work, they've all been such wonderful coworkers, even if i've hardly gotten to know them outside of work....i'll have to send them all a little note tomorrow Link to comment
SadnConfused Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Chopped people up, WOW gradle. Anyway. Talk to J. I think it is time to open the lines of communication. It has been a long time. You will never know unless you try. Open the lines a bit further. Start talking about things. Send him a collage of pictures of you guys before you are gone to D.C. Make there some reminder. Get his mind turning. Sturr up some memories, some emotion, some sexual intimacies. Give it a whirrel. Why not you are going to be a long ways apart. TIME FOR A LIFE CHANGER!!! Catch my drift?? Link to comment
SadnConfused Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Burn a CD of songs that are sur eto rmind him of you. He Will keep it, and it will remind him of you in the most remarkable ways. link removed Link to comment
Hope75 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Last day tomorrow, huh Gradle? Wow! You must have mixed feelings about that. I know I did when I left my job last summer to go back to school... I was happy to go but sad b/c I loved all my coworkers. So you are headed out to DC soon then? When is the big date? Have you started packing? Link to comment
SadnConfused Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 To be completely honest about men, you girls have to understand one thing. The chase. Why do we like hunting, fishing, video games, looking at movie stars.... The chase, the untouchable, the impossible liklihood. Make yourself out to be unavailible. You are seeing 3 guys at once. If he knows you, then you dont have to be sleeping with them....he knows you arent. this does not work after one date. It works after a relationship. Make him think you are with someone else. he will call tenfold. Try it, (but not on me, hehe). Start out with the sentimental things then use this technique. You will have him crooning. Link to comment
Hope75 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Unless he broke up with you because he was unhappy and has no desire to get back with you. ( I am not talking about J here, Gradle, just men in general). Your little plan will only work if the guy already had an idea that it wasn't over for good and he might want to give it another chance. Link to comment
annie24 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I know it's hard, but try not to overthink things. It just sounds like he wants to stay in touch. It doesn't mean that he wants to get together, or he wants to avoid you. He's just treating you like he would any friend he knows. Don't worry about him so much. Take care of yourself. if J doesn't get a phone call, who cares? Just focus on the things that you need to do this weekend. Good luck Link to comment
fantasia2004 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Gradle you are just going o be fine. It is only natural. I hate to accept what could have been and what is is happening now. I still love my ex how bizarre!!!! Weird I am? Yes it is. Keep your head up Gradle Link to comment
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