adult 'child' w/ problem parents

[dee0364]

Hi all. I am very new to this board, and have mostly been reading. The advice here is great, and I thought I would post my dilema here to see what you think. I won't lie, this is a very long (but most say interesting) 'story'.... any advice is appreciated thank you!!!

 

Maybe I should start out with just a little of my childhood....

 

As a child, my parents were constantly on my case. I had NO privacy, could do NOTHING on my own, wasn't allowed to have friends...ok... let me rephrase that, I could have friends, but the only way we could hang out was over at my house, where my parents could provide constant supervision.

 

I joined my church youth group at one point, hoping that my parents would realize that I was not out to cause havoc... after joining the youth group, my parents informed me they were going to take the position of youth group leader. This meant they were at every function.

 

I also attempted to join my middle school basketball team. While at try-outs, my dad would sit around and yell 'orders' to me from the stands(this was only the try-outs) and I finally had enough, and walked out of the try-outs, only to get to the car, for my dad to basically tell me what a loser I am, and how I cannot take criticism. He then got me involved in a "Parks and Recreation" basketball team, and he only 'allowed' that, because he was the asst. coach.

 

At 16 I started dating what I thought to be my "true love". My parents of course did not like him, but I guess they decided to give me a 'chance'. After about 12 months of dating, we had our first (and only) sexual encounter. (now i will be the first to admit it was not the brightest thing to do, considering I had just turned 17, but we did use 2 forms of protection). My parents found out(I am still not sure how, and they still will not tell me) 2 days after it happened, and took me immediately to the local hospital to have testing for pregnancy, and std's ran. The day after all this happened(at the hospital), I came home from school, and the house was completely wired, all the windows were bolted(locked with padlocks from the outside) and the windows and doors had a security alarm on them with a buzzer that sounded even if the alarm was "off". They said this was for my own security, and their own piece of mind, so that I could not sneak out to meet my boyfriend(which i am sure he gave up on me the moment my dad called and threatened to have him put in jail for stagatory(sp) rape AND i had never attempted to leave my house by sneaking out anyway). I ended up having to quit my job, and it honestly got so ridiculous that I could not even swim in our pool, which was 20 ft from the house(it was our own private pool), unless my younger sis(5 years my junior) would come out and 'keep an eye on me', even when I was asked to take out the trash, somebody would have to 'watch' me do this, so i couldn't run(?).

 

Anyway.... I joined the U.S. Navy at 18, my parents convinced me it would be in my best interest to keep my 'hometown' bank, considering I had my credit card through them, and they also said it would be easier if my mom did my monthly bills(mail system in the military isn't that great, so i didn't want my bills to be paid late). I went along with this for several months.

 

I ended up meeting my real true love(been married for 5 years, and we are expecting our 3rd child, our first passed away due to complications). They were not invited to our 'wedding' because when I told them we were thinking of marriage, my parents said they would stop at nothing to stop the marriage. My parents have never approved of my spouse, because he is 'one of those people'... which i am still not sure what they mean, it's either a) hispanic or b) he was brought up in a 'poor' family, that doesn't have alot of values..(my husband himself does have many values and morals, and he honestly is a great husband that works very hard to give us what we need/want)

 

i have tried to distance myself from them, but nothing seems to work... example... i didn't call them for 2 weeks, so my mom called the local police and had them come to my house, and call her in front of them! she told them there was a family emergency and i needed to be contacted asap(the emergency was that a 3rd cousin i never met, passed away at like 89 years old!)

 

OK.... now the situation at hand....

 

My parents are constantly calling asking if they can take our 2 year old son for a week or 2... i say no, i don't feel comfortable with the fact that they live 9+ hours away. It honestly has become a weekly thing... my dad once threatened to sue for grandparent's rights(they have NEVER had a long term relationship with our son... just when WE take him to visit, which is kinda hard considering my husband is in the military, and we try to spend as much time with him as possible, because he works so much).

 

We have endured 'guilt trips' (mom has recently started having occasional seizures, and they cannot find the problem.. she now takes 9 or more meds a day for them) my dad will call saying "It would make your mother so happy... what if she dies tomorrow, and C(our son) never got to know her."... we have also dealt with the constant threat of grandparent's rights... "if you don't let him come down here, we will sue you!"... even though i have told them they are more then welcome to come visit us here, considering they do have more money to travel on then we do... AND that traveling in a car with a 2 year old for 9+ hours isn't exactly the ideal way to travel!

 

We spend every xmas with them (usually 5 days) which does tick my husband off, because he really does not feel comfortable in my parents house, but he does it for me.

 

i am just at a complete loss... i am 33 weeks pregnant, and i have been belittled every single time i talk with my parents "you will never amount to anything... this is why we had to be so stern with you.. we didn't want you to end up pregnant and barefoot... blah blah blah" (i am a college student, and completed 4 years of military service, which i am very proud about)...

 

i just don't know where to turn anymore... if you have made it this far... thank you so much! any advice is appreciated...

[ladyluck]

and i thought my parents were over protective and nuts....no offence.

 

i couldn't tell you how to get your parents off your back except to move. my uncle and his wife wouldn't let his parents see the kids but they acctuall didn't go to such extreems.

 

you're pregnant and if your parents had any sort of heart under that preverbial lizzard skin they wouldn't put you through so much stress,i would try to tell them they have no choice but come see the your son because you say so, and tell them that he can't be with them without your supervision so weeks at a time is out of the question . that's just my opinion

 

i hope it goes well with your parents.good luck[/i]

[avman]

Well dee welcome to eNotalone. I must say I can certainly understand why you have chosen to limit your son's access to your parents. They sound incredibly controlling and very inflexible. The things you encountered in your childhood sound very traumatic so I can understand how you would not want to leave your son alone with your parents.

 

I think you have been more than reasonable with your parents. You've told them they are welcome to come visit you and spend time with their grandchild. So that takes the air out of their "sue for grandparents rights" argument. No judge is going to order you to force your two year old to spend weeks away from home with them.

 

You'll probably have to take a very firm stand with your parents. After all, this is YOUR child and not theirs. And I'd tell them that directly. You call the shots when it comes to your childs welfare and safety and they have no business butting in or threatening you simply because it doesn't suit their desires and wants.

 

I suppose it would be possible to take more desperate measures such as restraining orders and such preventing them from harassing you. But I think that would start a rather tough war. You could slowly continue to try distancing yourself. After all, if your mother keeps calling the local police after a few times they'll get the idea and tell her to knock it off.

 

My last suggestion might be rather radical, but perhaps you and your parents should have a few sessions with a family counselor. There seem to be many unresolved issues and difficulty having reasonable communications. Maybe someone independent could facilitate the discussion so that everyone gets their viewpoints out on the table.

 

Whatever your choice, I do wish you good luck. And congratulations on the pregnancy!

[dee0364]

My last suggestion might be rather radical, but perhaps you and your parents should have a few sessions with a family counselor. There seem to be many unresolved issues and difficulty having reasonable communications. Maybe someone independent could facilitate the discussion so that everyone gets their viewpoints out on the table.

 

Whatever your choice, I do wish you good luck. And congratulations on the pregnancy!

 

Thank you That would be great advice... and i would love to do that, but with us living so far away that doesn't seem possible... oh yeah, not to mention my parents don't believe in that 'psycho-babble'(their words)... because you know they are all knowing

[Blackmsmithdave]

I mean no offense by what i saw, but if what your saying is true, then your parents seem to me like 100% control obsesives, and well physcologicaly unstable, to put it mildly, if i go out with a friend and deside to stay the night then i would just ring up at about 8, 9 pm and say im staying over, and thats at like 15, im now 20, and thats seems mild by what i do these days. I am really very concerned for you.

 

Advice starting now. (and i hope that i have not insulted you at all parent things are tricky but i feel really strongly about this)

 

1) Do not let your child anywhere near your parents, im honeslty scared that they would lock him away and you would never see him again. The fact that they are threatening you with grandparent rights, which i have never heard of, ever! makes me think that they dont care what you think what your husband thinks, or anything, they want their way and they are prepared to do anything in there power including intimidation, manipulation of the law, etc. also if they have to come up to see the child they dont have him with them the child is still with you and if they tried to take the child you might stop them.

 

2) I believe the siezures are a guilt trip and hse is either lieing about the meds or flushing them down the toilet. The guilt tripe are not necesairy in the slightest.

 

3)The idea that your mum went and got the police to call on you is scary, this stuff seems like it came right out of a horror story. I am very gratefull that you dont live with them or this would be soo much harder, but i spose they would not let you use a computer let alone the internet if you were at home.

 

4)The childlife house arrest that has really scared me. Make a diray of events that have happened in your life then if they do anything legal, then use that as evidence, your statement of your childhood as it were, any jury would see you parents as, well dangerous.

 

Im still shoocked stand by your husband, and try to slowly separate yourself from them. and if it gets really bad, move away and dont ever tell them. leave forever. Coming from my shoes to yours thats what i would do. sorry if all this seems a bit harsh, im just so shocked. keep us posted on events and i dont know of anyone who needs this more: GOOD LUCK

[DN]

I think you have to decide what you want. If you want your parents to be in your life and that of your children then you can decide how much and what the limits are. Remember that you have control but that does not mean that you have to go to either extreme of seeing them as much as they want or of cutting them out of your life altogether.

 

It would be very easy to overreact at their overly controlling ways, both in the past and their attempts to so so by emotional blackmail or by threats of legal action.

 

If you decide that you do want some contact with them then the way to deal with that is to assert control by taking their power away from them.

 

Tell them that you will not respond to legal threats, that you know that they have no case because of their past treatment of you, their continuing attempts to interfere in your life, and their attitude and demeaning remarks about you and your husband. If they continue to threaten or actually take legal action, they will lose any chance of ever seeing you or your children again.

 

Secondly tell them that you are immune to their attempts at emotional pressure. You are sorry if either of them had health issues, now or in the future, but that will not alter any decisions you make about how much they interact with your husband and children. Again, tell them that unless their attitude changes they will not see you at all.

 

Then tell them that you are prepared to do - how much you are willing to allow them into your lives, how they are to behave when you are with them and, especially, how they must interact with your children and husband. Any criticism, demeaning remarks, recriminations etc. will jeopardise the relationship.

 

It is critical that you tell them that they are not allowed to demean or criticise your husband in the slightest way as that affects his relationship with his children and the way they regard him. Incidentally, if he has family, would it not be fair to spend Christmas with them sometimes? And it is also important for you to have some Christmases at your own home. Most people's memories of childhood include Christmas at home with Mum and Dad, don't deprive your children of those happy memories, your parents could visit you.

 

All this is predicated on the chance that you do not want to cut them off entirely. When you talk to them, do so as an independent, adult woman who is no longer under the control or influence of her parents but is interested in making a new relationship based on mutual respect. To do that you need to understand and respect yourself and radiate that self-confidence when speaking to your parents. Do not allow their past control and domination to affect you now. Be respectful when you talk to them but demand respect in return. Tell them, firmly and clearly, when they are out of line, let them know what the boundaries are and don't fall back into the parent/little child relationship.

[dee0364]

This is a email my mom sent to me recently, and i was appalled by MANY of the things said, so here is the email, and my comments added to what she is talking about, to help you get a clearer picture.(my comments are bold italics)

 

Dear DeAnna: This letter is to inform you that I am very stressed over the situation at hand. You telling us that we can not come and see the grand baby as soon as it is born. What if something happens to it or you. I won't be there for you. You make my heart break because I do not know what I have done to get this type of treatment. I had just told my mom that my husband and i had decided we would like them to come down to see our soon to be baby, after we had both been discharged from the hospital, so that my husband, son, and myself would get to spend time with him, before everybody starts barging in, we never ever said they were not welcome to ever come see the baby

I have always tried to be there for you and your family. I do not try to control you or your situation. If I did things would be different for you. Since you can tell me what I can and can not do when I visit. DO NOT BRING YOUR DOG. You and Carlos argue about who is going to take care of her ect... My dog is an 'inside' dog, but out of respect for them and their house, when we visit, she has to stay in their garage... my husband and i have never "FOUGHT" over caring for her... it's something to the effect of "hey could you go let the dog out?.... well why can't you???" and that's as far as it has ever gone!

I miss you all and wanted to come in Feb. Your daddy's illness was to risky to travel and he still isn't 100%. I sent stuff because I want too.

All your father and I want is to be shown respect and that is something you have never really done. I have prayed for my family to find peace and to be able to gather without any a small war or worlds. i apparently do not show them respect, because i do not tell them what they want to hear... i am never demeaning or nasty to them when i talk

 

Read this and if you get angry cool down before calling. My tongue is to sore to talk. My feelings are at bay with you and I am unsure were to go with them now. Please advise me so that we can be on the same page. Since I am venting and do not take it wrong but I could not stay long at your house the last visit due to the stuff that was not cleaned up. I am sorry but your house is not as clean as I would like it to be.

Everyone has bad day and weeks but you knew we were coming and the bowls and stuff on the living room floor could have been gotten up.

Sorry for the long vents but it has been building up and the doctor told me to get rid of my anger and stress. They came to visit in the middle of the winter(2004) they arrived at my house at 7am, while my son and myself were sitting on the floor eating a bowl of oatmeal together, this is why there was a bowl 'left' on the floor, because as soon as we heard them, we ran outside to greet them. but again, my mother is a complete obsessive compulsive about cleaning, it was kinda weird, because when they visited, she couldn't find anything to clean, so she went to my laundry room, pulled out the washer and dryer, and started cleaning UNDER them

 

March is not a good month for me and you come down on me with another one of your orders for us to follow.

 

If you feel that you are hurting us by doing this wrong it is only causing you the problems. You cause your own demise and blame it on others. Look at your life and the way you treat people. You can be a real wench. Start acting like the way you want to be treated and it will come back to you triple but visa versa you be mean it gets you in the @ss every time.

 

Hormones can play into this but not constantly. This letter is from ME your MOM so do not take it out on your sister or father or anyone else. If you have a complaint call or write. and then get over it. I LOVE YOU WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL BUT I HAVE TAKEN ALL I CAN TAKE I AM AT MY BREAKING POINT AGAIN AND I CAN NOT ALLOW MYSELF TO SLIP BACKWARDS AGAIN.

 

Remember to read ,digest, contemplate, then react to this situation. Your future can be affected by the way you treat me and the rest of your family. This is not a threat. We have dealt continuously with you and you have not given much in return.

 

The Heart strings have been pulled to tight this time and I am letting you have it. Sorry!!!!! Remember that you may feel this way too. Get back to me with your feelings whenever.

[DN]

Dear Mom,

 

The content of your letter is unacceptable. Remember that I am now an independent adult with responsibilities and I refuse to be told how to behave in my own house by you or anybody else. When you visit my house you will either accept our way of life or leave - your choice.

 

I will not be lectured, abused or controlled by you in any way. Unless you change your attitude and demeanor towards my family and myself we shall be unable to maintain a relationship with you. That would be a shame but be advised that I mean what I say.

 

Respectfully and with love,

[avman]

Well DN seems to have hit the high points. Thats the exact line of thinking I had. You could add some flowery words around it I suppose, but the gist is "Dear Mom, back off and butt out".

 

Give them the lowdown on what you will and won't accept. After that, the decision is theirs whether they will agree to it or not. This may result in some period where you and they do not speak. I don't know that this is necessarily a bad thing in this case, though I do understand it will hurt.

[Minty80]

I have lots to say but will have to come back to it. While my situation was no where near as extreme (my mom was very controlling, but my dad was able to keep her in check) I do understand what you are going through to a point.

 

I *highly* recommend picking up the book "Children of the Self-Absorbed." It's written for adult children of narcisstic parents, and your mother exhibited many of those traits just in the e-mail. It was all about her and her feelings with no regard for yours.

 

The book has helped me tremendously and

i apparently do not show them respect, because i do not tell them what they want to hear... i am never demeaning or nasty to them when i talk

is something I've uttered before almost word for word. There's also the feeling that if you can just present your case the right way they will change even though it has never worked in the past, sound familiar?

 

I have to run but again strongly recommend picking up that book. Just having everything validated and finding that my feelings were totally normal and my mom was the one with the issue not me was a big help. I hope it's the same for you.

 

Best of luck to you!

[dee0364]

I *highly* recommend picking up the book "Children of the Self-Absorbed." It's written for adult children of narcisstic parents, and your mother exhibited many of those traits just in the e-mail. It was all about her and her feelings with no regard for yours.

 

I will definitely be looking for that now! thank you!

 

At one point(last year from January-May), i was taking my son to see them once a month, for 3 days at a time. However, this still isn't good enough for them, because they are "supervised" visits. My dad says that supervised visits are no longer acceptable to him

 

He recently pulled a really good stunt on my younger sister. She is 19 and in college. She was discussing with my parents about moving out. Well, they don't like the idea. She had explained to them that she would like to purchase the car they 'gave' her when she was 17(only she drove it, it was an older car, still dependable... but my dad required that is stayed in his name).. anyway, she found out book value was $1200 for the car, so she offered dad $1500 to put the car in her name. He told her he didn't feel 'right' about it, but a week later he sold the car for $1200. My dad knew that once he sold the car, my sis would have no choice but to purchase her own car, which meant she would have a fairly 'high' payment (compared to her income, and in turn she wouldn't be able to afford to move out). so now my little sis is stuck with a car payment, they only allow her to work part time(since they pay her full tuition she doesn't really have a 'choice' in her eyes)... so again, that's their control...

 

is something I've uttered before almost word for word. There's also the feeling that if you can just present your case the right way they will change even though it has never worked in the past, sound familiar?

 

oh my! that's exactly what i have thought! i have to have a 'speech' prepared almost every single time i speak with my parents. and i have even used the "mom, would you have left me or my sis with g-ma or g-pa for a week?" she says "well i don't know... but then again, we always lived 5 minutes away from them, so you got to see them plenty of times"

 

Thanks so much for your input! If any of you would like to chat via email, my addy is email removed

[avman]

Wow, this gets more and more out of hand every time I read it!

 

My dad says that supervised visits are no longer acceptable to him

My reply would be, "Dad, thats too bad. This is my child and not yours. You don't get to decide what is acceptable or not acceptable with regards to his upbringing."

[DN]

I agree with avman. That statement is brief and to the point. And that should be the rule for all your interactions with your parents. You state what you want, or will accept, and then don't argue, don't discuss and don't negotiate because if you do you lose their respect and will be devilled by the details.

 

Don't have arguments prepared. Because you should not be arguing at all. Don't have speeches prepared because you should not be debating. When you argue or debate you are de facto conceding that they have a right to state a point of view. And the simple matter is that, in so far as your family is concerned, they do not have that right - unless you give it to them.

 

So, when your Mom says she wants to visit you and the baby in the hospital, your response is short and to the point. "Thank you but we have decided no one will visit in the hospital, you may visit us at home afterwards". And refuse to discuss or argue.

 

Note the use of "we' - this lets her know that you are making these decisions as a couple with a united front. Note the use of "may"- you are setting the boundaries - you are in charge and you are allowing them to visit when you tell her they can.

 

Never get into discussions about how they treated you or what they would have done when you were a child because you are now giving them a chance to argue with you and twist your words against you. Don't do that.

 

You can only argue with someone who engages in the other end of the argument. So don't argue. Say what you are prepared to do, and if they won't accept your decision, simply say "well. that is my/our decision and it is not open for discussion". Do that every, and I mean every, time and they will learn that you are resolute in your decision to run your own life without their interference.