Been Together 8 Years... Love Her Like Crazy, but NO SEX..!

[Love Her Like Crazy]

I am 33 and my wife is 27...

 

OK, tell me how selfish and insulting this is to say, but I married a very beautiful very intellifent extremely sexy woman. I fell in love with her mind, her body and her soul completely.

 

We were intinmate 2 or 3 times a day when we were dating ( obviously way above average, but hey we were crazy kids in love , then once a day after marriage for a couple weeks and has been steadily declining ever since until it is now in the arena of a couple times a year. And I mean that literally. 2 or 3 times a year.

 

I have talked candidly with every male married person I know including my brothers friends and even my father. I have spent countless hours perusing forums and reading books and articles about sex-less marriages. It seems to me that there is a general consensus that we just need to work through it if we love our mate and live lives miserably as far as intimacy is concerned and in the long term hope that we will find the key that opens that lock. I also feel that I have come accross an especially large number of men with exactly the same situation in there lives ( and to be fair, there has been a handful of woman that have posted about their husbands not liking sex at all ).

 

Anyway, the long and the short of it is I am truly at the end of my patience with this sex thing. I have always been a person who loves sex and have been very active since my teen years. I cannot live a full and happy life without a decent sex life and obviously would prefer that relationship to be with the one I love.

 

What do I do ?

 

I love my wife like crazy. She is my everything. She is a great mother to our 6 year old daughter and a very good wife in all respects other then intimacy. I really hit the jackpot with this beautiful angel I was lucky enough to marry. But I dont think I can live without intimacy any longer. I am very seriously at the point where I am either going to start listing on classifieds looking for discreet lovers, or I am going to leave my wife and start over. However if we do get separated I will NEVER get married again, because I could never find a woman better then the one I have now. And I am now convinced through research and personal experiences that all woman lose interest in sex to one degree or another after marriage.

 

Again, go ahead and throw the selfish comments and tell me what a chauvanist that I am, but this is where I am at. I have done enough medical research to know that there is a physical need for a male to "release" every 48-72 hours or there is actual physical damage and pain. There are also hormones released when there is a lack of regular "release" that have been proven to cause an increase in temperment and anger and has been attributed to cases of rage and abuse.

 

My only point in bringing this up is that maybe, just maybe our modern version of monogamy is actually in stark contrast to our forefathers and our ancestors of mellenia past. I mean even the mormons which is one of the most "cult" based right wing organizations under the religious umbrella and even they encouraged Polygamy right up until it was made illegal.

 

If there is such a high percentage of males unhappy with their sex life and such a high percentage of females unhappy with their romance, then maybe just maybe we are not programmed for one-on-one relationships. Maybe the "experiment" of marriage is a failure and everyone just refuses to admit that it doesnt really work.

 

Anyway, I am just babbling now, but really, does anyone have any sensible advice for both myself and the thousands of others that are living the same sexless hell?

 

Any unique ideas or twists on how to maybe bring a real spark to our life that doesnt involve a trip to Hawaii to get her "in the mood" everytime we need sex?

 

Anyone... ?

 

Please....

 

I do love my wife more then any other person I know ( except maybe my daughter of course ). And I would really really like to find some common ground, but how many times can you go to counseling and how many times can you promise each other that it will be different and how many times can we lay in bed all night and stare at the ceiling because the sexual frustration is too much to bear?

 

I am at the end of my patience, but desperately dont want to hurt her if that is possible.

[bridget74]

I don't think you are being selfish at all. I imagine there must be some reason on her part for not wanting to do it, however. Did this ever come uncovered in therapy? Something must have changed. What was going on in her or your life when it stopped? I can't even imagine. I was with someone, and I felt very hurt that he did not want to cuddle with me or be intimate. I felt lonely and isolated from him because of the lack of physical touch, and wound up leaving. I cared about him a lot, but the idea of living that way forever scared me terribly, and i decided I couldnt' take it. Your wife should be looking for a reason too. If she knew how bad you felt, I can't imagine she would be so selfish to let it go on this way.

[Love Her Like Crazy]

Bridget - I must admit I am pleaseantly surprised that the first person to express thoughts on my situation is someone who has experienced a very similar thing that I am going through now. And you have the ability to share the female perspective of feeling like your mate has no sexual interest in you. I honestly cant imagine what it would be like to be with a person that I love as much as my wife that actually enjoys sex. It would be pure bliss. I must be honest and admit that when I read forums where woman like yourself have posted that their mates are not interested in sex, I am very jealous of them and I want to go find the men and slap some sense into them.

 

I personally find it incredibly emasculating and even more importantly it attacks the very foundation of my very self esteem. How can you feel good about yourself when the person that is supposed to be the closest to you hides in the kitchen reading every night so that you fall asleep, or that they prefer sleeping in a twin bed with a wiggly 6 year old then to sleep with the person who loves them more then anything in the world. I mean this woman will do anything to avoid having me touch her, hold her or heaven forbid try to kiss her. She even dresses and undresses in the bathroom now so that I never see her naked. She says it is her way of making sure that I dont get "any ideas".

 

And to answer your qeustions, yes this was the primary topic during both couples counseling and in separate private counseling. We talked very openly and honestly and made lots of promises about trying to see each others perspective and perhaps even find some common ground where we can both feel desired. She tells me she loves me and never wants to be with anyone else. But at the same time she says that sex has absolutely no appeal to her at all and even told me once that she could honestly go through life and never have sex again and be perfectly happy. The few times a year we actually have sex are the "rewards" ( her words ) for me being so patient and such a good father and husband.

 

But really... Even the most devoted puppy will eventually leave if you whip him often enough. And I have been whipped and whipped ( not literally of course, that would be a good thing ) until I cant even remember what it feels like to "BE" with a woman.

 

Anyway, this is not a love-less marriage, but it is a sex-less marriage and I am torn between hurting her and moving on mith my life, but that would also hurt me terribly because I do love her very much. Or do I begin seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere in the warped belief that it may fill that void and that my "real" life can continue as it is.

 

I dont know... It feels like a lose-lose situation.

[btbt]

So did counseling uncover why you're wife has no sexual desire? Does it have to do with any medications she's taking, insecurities about her body, or emotional issues that are preoccupying her? And did you tell her the stuff aobut her not wanting to have sex makes you feel rejected and insecure?

 

What I'm saying is that having/not having sex is the symptom. There is something deeper, which you somewhat allude to. Sounds like you need to unravel that and the sexual intimacy will follow.,

[bridget74]

I also can tell you, that before I broke up this person, I cheated. Big mistake! The guilt was killing me. The sex wasn't the only problem, but it was the last straw (we had been together for about a year and a half). Anyway, we have only been split near two weeks, but I think i made the right choice. In analyzing why I finally went for it with someone else, I think it was a way to force myself to give up the relationship. I really wanted to make it work, and he did too, even after I told him I slept with someone else (I have a post all about it). Initiatially I was into working it out, but then decided, I really didn't and told him I didn't want to talk anymore. Do you think your want for another woman could be because you are thinking you want out? I mean in all reality, do you think you can live with her, and be having a sexual relationship with someone else? Unless, she would be ok with it....

[btbt]

Wait, I just realized that you posted this in Infidelity, so is the main issue whether you want to have extra-marital sex? If so, I'd say, not a good idea. If it's the physical deprivation you can't stand, you can find ways to get that pleasure without cheating, right? If it's the emotional distance that's the main problem, then that will not be found in an affair or one-night stand, nor will it help your relationship with your wife and daughter.

[Love Her Like Crazy]

So did counseling uncover why you're wife has no sexual desire? Does it have to do with any medications she's taking, insecurities about her body, or emotional issues that are preoccupying her? And did you tell her the stuff aobut her not wanting to have sex makes you feel rejected and insecure?

 

This has been going on for some time now and indeed we have discussed many different things. She has tried several different types of birth control pills in case there were hormone issues involved.

 

We do have some conflict in our religion where she is very religious and I am not at all. This has caused some friction in the past, but when discussed it doesnt seem to be an issue in regards to our marital bed.

 

She has told me she has a hard time being intimate, when it seems that "all I want is sex" and nothing else. I have several opinions on this including the simple fact that if you dont have food for a long period of time you dont need caviar and champagne, you just need food and sex is very similar in my opinion. If you starve someone long enough, they dont really want to do the 4 hour messages and candlelit baths. Although I certainly do my part in that arena. I have purchased more flowers, candy, sexy underwear, lotions, oils, dinners out on the town, cards, you name it. I am the biggest sucker for all that jazz and it never gets me anywhere but in debt. Over the years, I have kind of quit trying in that department though, because it really seemed like a waste of energy.

 

Also, it is very hard for me to be romantic for days and weeks on end with no conclusion and if that was really the problem, then why do we never get intimate after romantic evenings. I mean "never". She has made it a point over the years to not have sex on special occasions such as birthdays, trips or romantic dates, because she feels that it is simply a reward and not a legitimate interest in each other sexually.

 

Anyway. Yes I agree with what you are saying. It must be deeper. But unless she has feelings or resentments that she is not admitting to me then we have discussed everything that has been put on the table.

[Love Her Like Crazy]

Wait, I just realized that you posted this in Infidelity, so is the main issue whether you want to have extra-marital sex?

 

Great point. But no that is not why I posted here. To be brutally honest I couldnt find a forum that made sense, but since this has been on my mind I thought I might get the interest of those that have done it and regretted it you know? I really just posted here because it made more sense then any other index that I saw listed.

 

I do not want to cheat on my wife. I do not want to hurt her or my daughter, but the lack of intimacy has grown to be such a large issue, I must admit I am thinking far less clearer then I have in the past on the issue.

[Love Her Like Crazy]

Yes. believe it or not we have actually discussed the possibility of an organized affair so that we could both be happier. It seems crazy I know and involves another person which can only serve in the long run to make it even more complicated, but we did discuss it.

 

One of the promises that we made each other when we got married was that should one of us ever want to stray, or even consider it that we would tell the other person. We agreed that we would be open-minded about it. However when I did bring it up, she was understandably freaked out. I assured her that I had done nothing more then have a few thoughts and to mention to her that I was greatly displeased with our sexual relationship and had some thoughts about going elsewhere. This of course was not news to her and in fact she was greatly relieved to hear that I had not done anything. As we have both been very vocal about this for several years, there are no real secrets and she says she has wondered if I had strayed or had thought about straying.

 

I must admit it hurt my feelings pretty bad that should would think I had strayed. Especially after the way I have waited on her hand and foot and all but worshipped her from the day we got married. I dont know, maybe sometimes I think I am trying toooo hard...

[bellamcb]

I have to say I think you're on to something re: monogomy not working. It's really tough to maintain an attraction to someone for years on end. I've only been married for 8 months and honestly, my sex drive has gone straight down hill. My husband is on his second marriage and now says the word "marriage" kills a woman's sex drive.

 

I've thought through so many times what has changed. For me, some is physical and some is mental. But, I would never ever not have sex for longer than a week or two.

 

One thing my girlfriends and I talk about is how for men, it seems like they have have sex to feel good whereas women have sex when they feel good. It may sound crazy but it makes sense to us.

 

Another thing we've talked about is that the longer you go without sex with your spouse, the harder it is to do it. The opposite also holds true- when you're having regular sex you're more inclined to do it, i.e., more interested in doing it.

 

In any case, 2 to 3 times a year for such a young woman seems very strange and unhealthy. Is there any possibility you guys could go to counseling with the goal of her going on her own? Something is going on there. I don't even think it's necessarily you or her attraction to you. I would guess that it's something going on with her and her alone.

 

You should not feel "selfish" or anything else. "Anguish" would be more appropriate. I hope you don't have to resort to an affair and that you can pursue other options. You clearly love her very much. Assuming she loves you in the same way, I think you can persuade her to seek some help. It really isn't normal and I hate using judgement calls like "Normal." A healthy marriage includes sex. Since you're obviously at the end of your rope, you should try to be very candid with her about your needs and what you need her to do to try to solve the problem; make sure she knows you want to exhaust all options before you do something you both might regret.

 

I hope everything works out for you. You sound terrific and loving.

[melrich]

I wouldn't go looking for an affair. That is just piling issue on issue.

 

You sound like you have tried many avenues to get this resolved.

 

Would your wife be surprised if she read your posts? I mean does she know/understand that this issue is threatening your very marriage? If not, tell her that to start with.

 

You are not being selfish. In the main I agree with you that sex and intimacy serves to nourish a relationship and is a necessary part of any healthy marriage. Otherwise you are just two people who are very close that are living together.

 

You probably know this already but medical consensus at the moment is that female frigidity is a result of one of two things, psychological issues or hormone related.

 

If she has seen professional psychiatrists and no psychological issues have been uncovered then I suggest you see a phsyician and test for hormonal related problems and of course there are drugs that can address some of these.

 

If she has not seen a qualified psychiatrist I suggest that she does that first.

[Love Her Like Crazy]

Thank you Bellamcb !!

 

Incredibly sensible intelligent advice. Everyone who has posted has given me pause for thought and I appreciate it tremendously.

 

As to your comments on Monogamy not really working. This is something that I do feel is a very real possibility. After all there are only about 3 species out of millions on this planet that mate for life and humans are unique in the sense that we only started mating for life several thousand years ago. This may seem like a long time, but where the final stage of our evolution from stone-age man to homo-sapien finished its transition 1 million years ago, we have actually only been monogamous for less then 1/2 of 1% of the final stage of our existence. Clearly not a natural thing. However it has become socially unacceptable to act in any other manner. A classic case of society over nature.

 

As to your comments about the things you and your girlfriends talk about. It really does make a lot of sense. Well it does to me anyway. I have long believed that when dating Woman use sex to get love and Men use love to get sex. I mean you cant even tell when a man is genuine anymore, because 99% of the time he just wants to "get some". And with Woman the only way to find out if they are being genuine in their sexuality is to marry them and then suffer the consequences if they were in fact just "pretending" to be interested in sex in order to get the love that they need.

 

But then on the other hand you are the first Woman I have ever heard mention that actual physical and emotion changes that occurred after you got married. Obviously this has been the subject of comedy and debate for many years, but if this is real, then maybe it too is a strong hint that we are not really designed to "mate for life". And in fact could be a happier species if we had more open relationships.

 

I for one am a loyal person and will not do anything stupid that will hurt myself and my family. However, there is definitely a line in the sand and it feels like she doesnt even hear me anymore when I try to talk about anything that in any way remotely even hints at sexual relations...

 

So basically ( for lack of a better definition ) I am in love with ( and married to ) my room mate. The only difference from any other room mate is that I have sworn before God and my common man that I will be loyal to my "room mate" in all things including sexuality. But the monkey wrench in the works is my room mate doesnt want to be invloved with me that way so....

[Love Her Like Crazy]

wouldn't go looking for an affair. That is just piling issue on issue.

 

I do agree with this. Piling issues on issues certainly is no way to solve them. However as you also mentioned, we have worked extensively at this and gotten basically no where. I do feel that a thorough medical evaluation would be appropriate, but when I mention these things to her she assures me there is nothing wrong. I cant really force her to see a doctor if she doesnt want to.

 

But this is where it gets so frustrating. She wants to find a solution, but does so little to help. When I bring solutions or suggestions to the table she acts as if she would rather just go on living this way indefinitely.

 

Would your wife be surprised if she read your posts? I mean does she know/understand that this issue is threatening your very marriage? If not, tell her that to start with.

 

This is actually something that I have thought about. If I just sat her down and showed her exactly what I have been doing. The research, the articles and the forums. I have nothing to hide, but it does open a new can of worms in that she may not like the fact that I talk about it with other people and I am not sure how she would take that. Although, at this point I feel that I cant really do anything to make it worse, so...

[bellamcb]

There was a TIME mag cover devoted to the subject of monogamy and whether or not mankind was meant to be monogomous. I think it was in 1995 or 1996. It was controverisal in it's time and I'm surprised there hasn't been more on the subject. I would be very interested in any new research.

 

Regarding my change of sex drive, I can think of a few things. For example, he gained some weight. Not a lot and no it doesn't change my feelings for him but he is so attractive that it does impact how I look at him. I also feel like we got almost immediately stuck in a routine which I suppose is normal but honestly, boring. We have recently reinstituted "date-night" to avoid this problem. But you may be right.

 

Perhaps men and women are wired differently. For women, our bodies are literally built to reproduce. Yes, we can have orgasms and enjoy sex, but if you think about the female body- uterus, ovaries, p tubes, breasts, etc., our bodies were created to have babies.

 

This is NOT to say that women are ONLY meant to reproduce. It is just a physical reality of our anatomy.

 

However, this doesn't mean that it's okay to be in a sex-less relationship and to feel the pressure you're under. I truly believe you have a valid issue and that you should bring it up with your wife with the same level of severity that you brought it up here. It's your marriage and you love her. And you have a six year old. You need to act now and do whatever it takes to save the marriage because we both know that an affair isn't going to solve the problem. You love her and you'll always be longing to get from her what you're not getting now, but which you know you can get because you've had it in the past.

 

Good luck to you!

[melrich]

This is actually something that I have thought about. If I just sat her down and showed her exactly what I have been doing. The research, the articles and the forums. I have nothing to hide, but it does open a new can of worms in that she may not like the fact that I talk about it with other people and I am not sure how she would take that. Although, at this point I feel that I cant really do anything to make it worse, so...

 

I would definitely have this conversation with her. Sure she will not be happy about it, may even resent you for it initially, but if she is made to understand how serious this issue is and the potential consequences of it, she may realise that she cannot keep ignoring it and hoping it will go away.

[sonjam]

I sort of relate to how your wife is feeling. There was a time when my partner seldom hugged me or held my hand, and when he did I knew he wanted sex that night. It put me off the whole thing. No foreplay, it felt like it was all about him.

 

I was wondering. How about trying affection, hugs kisses etc, but NO SEX for awhile. Get her to warm up to you again, without having to "pay" or reward you - as she sees it.

 

I'm almost sure once she's warmed up to you again, her interest in sex might resurface. I also have to say having a child can have a huge impact on a female sexdrive. Not always but in some cases it really does. I remember when my baby was born, a few months later even, I had absolutely NO INTEREST in sex. My focus had shifted to the role of being a mother, rather than being a wife. It took some work, and commitment to get the priorities right again, and I think the later you leave it, the worse it's going to get.

[RayKay]

This is not selfish AT all.

 

Sexual compatibility and the sexual relationship between a couple is very important. Intimacy is important. It is a way to share with our lovers our intimate selves, to give pleasure, to form that bonding glue that sometimes serves as a salve in rougher times, and a joyous celebration in better. I would be more inclined to think a person who seemed absolutely unwilling to particpate in intimacy with their partner was more selfish then the one who wanted more.

 

I think 2-3 times a year is I am sorry, appalling. Even more so at such young ages for both of you. Yes there are other long term marriages/relationships where sex is less than daily, weekly or even monthly...but there are many where that is NOT the case, and why settle for less than the norm when you can strive for the best? At least once a week even...! And honestly, you are well below the norm. By definition, the medical/clinical community would classify your relationship as sexless.

 

This is something you both need to address and explore together, and it may require professional help even. Also, how do you approach her? The thing is you need to make her want it, herself! So create that environment where she will want it, but since you have lookeda t so many books and tried many things, I assume you have tried this. She may also have emotional issues that are preventing her libido from being very present, or suffering depression. Or she may be asexual, and before the marriage used sex as a tool (not saying this IS the case, but I know sometimes people do use sex as manipulation whether consciously or not).

 

An affair I can say right now is NOT the solution. Not for the strength of your relationship, nor the correct way to introduce your child to what a loving marriage is. Children learn from what they grow up with, and unless you want a child with their own serious bonding issues in relationships....don't go there. As they do know, even when you hide it.

 

What I am MOST concerned with is her apparent lack of desire to actually do anything about it. When you love your partner, and they have concerns, you work to address them..not shrug it off. So her "wanting a solution" to me is more she "wants you to just accept things as they are"...that to her is a solution. At least it solves it from her viewpoint. This to me is very concerning.

 

Honestly, if she seems uninterested in actually getting HELP from outside experts in this issue, even if you explain to her how SERIOUS it is, I am not sure what you can do. You would have some serious decisions to make though. Sex is not everything, but it is very much something, and so is the intimacy. Can you imagine the next 50 years of your life being the same or even worse? If she seems to treat your needs/desires as very secondary and not worth addressing, what would that show?

 

I can tell you very much love her, so I really hope things can be worked out...the problem is SHE needs to not only "want" things to work out, but needs to work together to find those solutions, even if it means getting help, or looking at other solutions and trying them.

[btbt]

Sounds like you guys have a very open and communicative relationship, so keep at it. A thought -- you say you tried all kinds of romantic gestures to get her in the mood. Maybe you could ask her what she would like you to do -- start small; maybe a little cuddling and touching at first that doesn't have to lead to sex right away. Maybe she needs to ease into feeling intimate and being touched without the pressure of sex. But it does seem like she has some very deep concerns so I hope you can crack that in your therapy.

[Love Her Like Crazy]

Thank you everyone for your insight and support. I have received far more then I ever expected from a forum and I am glad I chose to post here. I wanted to take a moment and let you all know that I am working up the courage to talk to my Wife this weekend with my heart in my hands and explain to her all that I am feeling and thinking and let her know that living this way for the next 50+ years is simply not an option for me. Combined with the fact that I am confident she knows I love her and that she loves me I feel that this conversation has a very good chance of going the right way (maybe not out of the gate, but I am sure we can get there).

 

Long story short, this is it. For better or worse as they say.

 

Wish me luck.

 

I will be back to post as to the succes or failure of my mission.

 

And again thank you all sincerely for the support advice and guidance...

[Hope75]

Please do keep us updated on how the talk goes this weekend!

[bellamcb]

Yes. Good luck! Please be as brutally honest as you can with her though. Make sure you allow her to see that this is a very serious situation that needs to change.

[Lexicon85]

She should be counting her lucky stars for a guy like you. What is wrong with her?! Even if she doesn't get pleasure from intercourse, isn't having a man on top of her or beneath her emotionally pleasurable? I just don't understand.

 

You could try going at it from an emotional angle. You may think it's not emotional, but I'm sure it is. And it would help her, as she seems to feel that all you want is sex. Tell her how much you miss her body, you miss being close to her... how much you love her so much that you feel the only way to communicate it to her is to hug her and kiss her passionately, and be inside of her. You miss the love... you don't feel like a family. Tell her that you would never want to have an organized affair, as that is not what you're after... Tell her you're insecure about not being able to pleasure her, but you'll do what you can to be better; you two could go out and buy a vibrator or any other toy she wants. Tell her you're insecure about your own attractiveness.

 

Do things to turn her on. Go to the gym and work on your pecs and abs. Hug her and kiss her and play with her affectionately. Make her dinner, take her out, wear nice clothes and nice underwear. Tell her how much you want her in places you two can't possibly have sex in, so she won't resent the come on (like at a party, or a public dinner). Tell her how much you love her and how sexy she is in the same sentence.

 

Personally I think she's crazy. But there is no turn-off like a guy who gets angry and whiney because he can't have sex- that will kill the sex life immediately. Perhaps you should even say it's okay that there is no sex, and that you just want to be close with her, then cuddle with her and be physically affectionate in other ways. After some of this, she may stop resenting you for wanting her only physically.

 

Just some ideas. Don't give up, and good luck!

[Lexicon85]

Also, try going by little steps. One day tell her that she looks so beautiful that all you want to do is kiss her, and kiss her for a while. Don't dare try anything else- look satisfied and compliment her a lot and be positive! Another day, tell her that her mom-breasts look unbelievable, and that you're so attracted to the mother of your children and beg for a peak in a fun way. Make sure she feels attractive, but also like your wife and the mother of your kids. Tease her about being a hot mom. Ruff at her while she changes her clothes. Hug her a lot. Take dancing lessons with her. Never pressure her, and never seem angry with her! She doesn't want to feel like a sex toy! Compliment her with love. Later ask to just admire her body, and rub her and compliment her parts- but again, the trick is don't pressure her into anything more! Tell her how lucky you are to be with such a sexy, wonderful woman. Tell her how good you feel when you see her with your kids, how sexy that can be- she has to feel sexy and powerful and loved in her new role! Go step by step and give her her sexuality back.

[Lexicon85]

I think being brutally honest might make it worse for you. I think making sure that she knows your advances are not about being rewarded, and that sex is a loving act, will be your ticket.