dating in older age

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, AndieA said:

He did about 4 weeks ago and I said I would (and that is true).  At that time I did not know it had been a dealbreaker in a past relationship.

So would you relocate for a man who is not in love with you as long as he tells you he’s going to be faithful ?

[AndieA]

Batya, I cannot dismiss anything you said about his feelings and intentions.   Knowing him he is giving this serious thought and it is possible he may tell me in the next few days that it won't work and he doesn't want to drag it out for me any longer.  

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, AndieA said:

Nice to hear about people my age finding love.  But really, I wasn't looking and won't look if this ends.  The meeting was happenstance.  We live in the same condo complex and I was walking to the tennis courts.  His dog rushed me (friendly) and we talked a bit.  He said he played tennis and would like to play sometime.  He had just moved in.    He looked like he was younger than me so I didn't give it a second thought.  Saw him again a few weeks later and he mentioned tennis again, so I gave him my number if he ever wanted to play.   

Why do I stay if there is no future?  Because that isn't ruled out at this point (his words).  And if it ends, I won't be looking as I wasn't looking when I met him.  I was happy and busy with interests, being single.  

Maybe the standard should be “I’ll stay if a future is as certain as we can be given that life has no guarantees. “. Do you really want to settle for “well he didn’t entirely rule out that maybe he’ll wake up one day and have that loving feeling “. Is he telling you he’s going to reflect deeply either on his own or with a therapist if there’s something in him generally blocking his emotional availability

 

Or is he comfy with the status quo where since he doesn’t feel like looking elsewhere and can live without being in love with a woman right now he’ll settle for the package he found in you and even better if trelocate - do you have the financial wherewithal to relocate and be financially comfortable?  Perhaps he’s psyched at getting to hang out with you AND cut his relocation expenses with your financial input since you’re the complete package. 

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, AndieA said:

Batya, I cannot dismiss anything you said about his feelings and intentions.   Knowing him he is giving this serious thought and it is possible he may tell me in the next few days that it won't work and he doesn't want to drag it out for me any longer.  

Yes. Perhaps don’t drag it out for yourself. Know your worth. How well do you know him since his news to you about how he feels is not what you expected ? Also what actions is he taking ? “Serious thought “ is only a part. 

[AndieA]

1 hour ago, Starlight925 said:

And IS he in fact moving out west?  

He has said that is not in the near future, but has always been his dream and is in his plans.

[AndieA]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. Perhaps don’t drag it out for yourself. Know your worth. How well do you know him since his news to you about how he feels is not what you expected ? 

Actually I had no expectations.  I did not tell him to obligate him.  

[AndieA]

29 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So would you relocate for a man who is not in love with you as long as he tells you he’s going to be faithful ?

If we are still together by the time he would relocate, then yes because he would obviously be committed to the relationship for that length of time.  

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, AndieA said:

If we are still together by the time he would relocate, then yes because he would obviously be committed to the relationship for that length of time.  

So then you know your standards -if he sticks around for __ amount of time you're good to uproot your life even if he doesn't love you.

[rainbowsandroses]

8 hours ago, AndieA said:

Yes, you are right. 🙂 I am okay with the status quo. 

That is fair and all that should matter at the end of the day.

BUT...

And please know this isn't meant to discourage you necessarily but if this were me in your shoes, one thing that would give me pause and cause me discomfort is that he is 64 and very likely to meet a woman who he IS 100% attracted to and feels that romantic chemistry/vibe with and fall in love with.  

He won't need to think about it, he will just know.  And he won't need to be.looking for it either, it will just happen as such connections tend to do.  Anytime, any place.

You could too however, you DO feel those emotions with him so there is less of a chance. 

In other words, I would feel like some sort of "placeholder" until the 'right' woman did come along for him. 

I realize you're not me and perhaps this doesn't concern you which is fine. I just thought I'd give you another angle to consider.

Good luck. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

That is fair and all that should matter at the end of the day.

BUT...

And please know this isn't meant to discourage you necessarily but if this were me in your shoes, one thing that would give me pause and cause me discomfort is that he is 64 and very likely to meet a woman who he IS 100% attracted to and feels that romantic chemistry/vibe with and fall in love with.  

He won't need to think about it, he will just know.  And he won't need to be.looking for it either, it will just happen as such connections tend to do.  Anytime, any place.

You could too however, you DO feel those emotions with him so there is less of a chance. 

In other words, I would feel like some sort of "placeholder" until the 'right' woman did come along for him. 

I realize you're not me and perhaps this doesn't concern you which is fine. I just thought I'd give you another angle to consider.

Good luck. 

 

To add^, I have had many men tell me they know within 30 minutes (or less) whether a particular woman they meet is a 'long term or forever' woman, a woman they could fall in love with OR a "good for now" woman. A placeholder.

They may even 'string her along' until they meet such woman.  He likes her, they're get on well, they're "compatible."

As long as he's "honest" and she's (in this case you) is OK with it, heck why not?  Again many men including my own brothers have told me this. 

You keep saying "at our ages."  Do you not believe at age 64 he is capable of connecting with a woman in that way?  Again, he won't need to be out there looking for it either, such connections sometimes just "happen" often when we least expect.

Well he is, trust me. So are you and it will be mutual.

There have been many instances of men and women meeting the absolute love of their lives in their 60s and 70s, and they felt it very quickly. 

And when he does meet that "right" woman, where does that leave you?

I would NOT trust his words that he's committed.  That 'commitment' will go right down the toilet once he meets the right woman he's in love with and he won't need a year+ to know that.

One doesn't 'grow to love' another person or grow to fall in love with them.  They can grow to be comfortable with them and how to co-exist together. 

Love can grow but you have to feel that love first before it has a chance to grow. 

Again, jmo but just because you're older that does not mean you should have to settle for what you're setting for and you are settling.

Your choice, again good luck. 

[catfeeder]

The fact that you never felt compelled to discuss love during nearly a year of seeing this man speaks of your capacity to enjoy and even love a person (or many people) without a defined agenda.

That's rare and likely difficult for younger people to appreciate, because most of us, including myself for most of my adult life, and especially women, are driven at least to some degree by our biological markers. Even after we are long past our drive to mate for childbearing, the instinct for secure nesting is an equally strong driver--But, this doesn't mean that it's conscious. It's more like a habit. The way we've 'always' seen the world, at least until we outgrow it. And nobody can rush that.

You've already gained the experience to navigate well beyond romance into mature companionate love, and you've even suffered the loss of your husband. And you've not only survived that, you've thrived to build an enjoyable solo life beyond any preoccupation with what most of us think of as romance.

Love comes in many forms. I've reached the age myself where an agenda for love is less and less defined because my love for the world has become more romantic. 

You are also introspective enough to have identified your true motivation for raising the idea of love with this man. You were not ready to lose him to unknown factors, and you wanted to clarify this before his trip. Well, of course. Life teaches us that travel, like surgery, contains some raised risk of losing a person. "So say it, NOW!"

I find your position understandable and valid. I have loved one man in my lifetime. I needed to part from him in my 20's, and we reunited in our 40's only for me to recognize that I still could not sacrifice my solo life to be with him. And this was not some hard declaration, "If not him, then NO man..." it was much gentler than that. For me it simply meant that some people are best loved from far away, and I'm open to allowing life to teach me whether partnering with another will ever be the best course for me.

Every. Single. Thing. is temporary. EnjOy your relationship, no matter how you wish to define it, and I hope you will keep us updated if you so choose.

[AndieA]

Rainbowsandroses, Yes I understand this possibility.  It could happen whether he is with me or not.   It will hurt now, or it will hurt later.  Knowing myself, it won't hurt any worse later, so I am willing to take the chance on him.  I appreciate your observations!

[AndieA]

5 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

The fact that you never felt compelled to discuss love during nearly a year of seeing this man speaks of your capacity to enjoy and even love a person (or many people) without a defined agenda.

That's rare and likely difficult for younger people to appreciate, because most of us, including myself for most of my adult life, and especially women, are driven at least to some degree by our biological markers. Even after we are long past our drive to mate for childbearing, the instinct for secure nesting is an equally strong driver--But, this doesn't mean that it's conscious. It's more like a habit. The way we've 'always' seen the world, at least until we outgrow it. And nobody can rush that.

You've already gained the experience to navigate well beyond romance into mature companionate love, and you've even suffered the loss of your husband. And you've not only survived that, you've thrived to build an enjoyable solo life beyond any preoccupation with what most of us think of as romance.

Love comes in many forms. I've reached the age myself where an agenda for love is less and less defined because my love for the world has become more romantic. 

You are also introspective enough to have identified your true motivation for raising the idea of love with this man. You were not ready to lose him to unknown factors, and you wanted to clarify this before his trip. Well, of course. Life teaches us that travel, like surgery, contains some raised risk of losing a person. "So say it, NOW!"

I find your position understandable and valid. I have loved one man in my lifetime. I needed to part from him in my 20's, and we reunited in our 40's only for me to recognize that I still could not sacrifice my solo life to be with him. And this was not some hard declaration, "If not him, then NO man..." it was much gentler than that. For me it simply meant that some people are best loved from far away, and I'm open to allowing life to teach me whether partnering with another will ever be the best course for me.

Every. Single. Thing. is temporary. EnjOy your relationship, no matter how you wish to define it, and I hope you will keep us updated if you so choose.

This is the most beautiful and encouraging words I have ever heard.  Thank you for this and for understanding.  You have no idea how much this means to me! I sincerely hope you find the best course for you.

[catfeeder]

6 minutes ago, AndieA said:

This is the most beautiful and encouraging words I have ever heard.  Thank you for this and for understanding.  You have no idea how much this means to me! I sincerely hope you find the best course for you.

Thank you, Andie. If you think about it, we have already 'found' the best courses for ourselves. This doesn't mean we have all the answers. It just means we've somehow learned how to let go of the habits that we had formed around our more youthful questions. We no longer view those through the same lens that had served us in our youth and possibly mid-life.

There are no guide books to tell us when our infantile lens should be traded for an adolescent one. Then when our adolesent lens should be traded for an early adult one. Then when our early adult lens should be traded for a mid-life one, then when that lens should be traded for a mature one.

We carry remnants of all of these lenses, and it's up to us to learn how to flip those switches. But there's a peace that comes when we do. I think you've been navigating this well!

 

[rainbowsandroses]

58 minutes ago, AndieA said:

Rainbowsandroses, Yes I understand this possibility.  It could happen whether he is with me or not.   It will hurt now, or it will hurt later.  Knowing myself, it won't hurt any worse later, so I am willing to take the chance on him.  I appreciate your observations!

That is a very pragmatic way of looking at it and I really admire you for that.  Inspired even.

That no matter what happens, whatever the outcome turns out to be, you WILL be OK.  You will survive.

It also got me thinking about how much our ego plays a role in the choices we make with respect to relationships and love and how we choose to love. 

I know for me, my ego is definitely a factor.  It's like, I'm in love with him and I want him, I need him to be in love with ME!  And if he's not in love with me, screw him, bye. 

Is that my love for him speaking, or is it my ego?  Do you (or others) have any thoughts about that?  

Even though as in your case, he brings value and joy to your life, he enhances your already fulfilling life and vice versa.  Which at the end of the day, is what truly matters? 

Back to my post, even having posted it, I acknowledge that he could meet another woman tomorrow who strikes his fancy even IF he were in love with you. 

Anything can happen, no guarantees ever.  It's all a risk.

So what IS love anyway, what does love mean in the grand scheme? 

I'm recently divorced after a short and lonely marriage, I'm truly questioning these things. 😀

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

The fact that you never felt compelled to discuss love during nearly a year of seeing this man speaks of your capacity to enjoy and even love a person (or many people) without a defined agenda.

That's rare and likely difficult for younger people to appreciate, because most of us, including myself for most of my adult life, and especially women, are driven at least to some degree by our biological markers. Even after we are long past our drive to mate for childbearing, the instinct for secure nesting is an equally strong driver--But, this doesn't mean that it's conscious. It's more like a habit. The way we've 'always' seen the world, at least until we outgrow it. And nobody can rush that.

You've already gained the experience to navigate well beyond romance into mature companionate love, and you've even suffered the loss of your husband. And you've not only survived that, you've thrived to build an enjoyable solo life beyond any preoccupation with what most of us think of as romance.

Love comes in many forms. I've reached the age myself where an agenda for love is less and less defined because my love for the world has become more romantic. 

You are also introspective enough to have identified your true motivation for raising the idea of love with this man. You were not ready to lose him to unknown factors, and you wanted to clarify this before his trip. Well, of course. Life teaches us that travel, like surgery, contains some raised risk of losing a person. "So say it, NOW!"

I find your position understandable and valid. I have loved one man in my lifetime. I needed to part from him in my 20's, and we reunited in our 40's only for me to recognize that I still could not sacrifice my solo life to be with him. And this was not some hard declaration, "If not him, then NO man..." it was much gentler than that. For me it simply meant that some people are best loved from far away, and I'm open to allowing life to teach me whether partnering with another will ever be the best course for me.

Every. Single. Thing. is temporary. EnjOy your relationship, no matter how you wish to define it, and I hope you will keep us updated if you so choose.

The problem is it's likely not balanced. He's telling her right now he's unmotivated to search for love but that could change on a dime.  So even if she's ok with this arrangement I think it's likely he's not or not for long.  If he said to her "I'm not looking for love.  I don't see us falling in love.  But I like dating you, being with you, the fun we have as well and I am done looking for a serious romantic relationship.  I'm serious about being loyal to you and would expect the same of you but I don't see as a love match."  Instead he's hedging he "might" fall in love with her in the future (like I wrote highly unlikely if she sticks around and he knows/feels she is settling for scraps -not really a good look/turn on).

[catfeeder]

31 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

The problem is it's likely not balanced. He's telling her right now he's unmotivated to search for love but that could change on a dime.  So even if she's ok with this arrangement I think it's likely he's not or not for long.  If he said to her "I'm not looking for love.  I don't see us falling in love.  But I like dating you, being with you, the fun we have as well and I am done looking for a serious romantic relationship.  I'm serious about being loyal to you and would expect the same of you but I don't see as a love match."  Instead he's hedging he "might" fall in love with her in the future (like I wrote highly unlikely if she sticks around and he knows/feels she is settling for scraps -not really a good look/turn on).

I get that, and it sounds like @AndieAunderstands that as well. And so she’s chosen to allow this man to explore where he wants to go with that, even while she’s far from naive about where he could land.

I think losing a spouse to death, THE final conclusion, can prime a person to accept uncertain outcomes. I agree with attempts to warn a less seasoned person of undesirable risks, but when someone is far more seasoned than myself, I tend to respect and support their decisions. Especially when I see a grounded resilience that is far from fragile, which I can only aspire toward.

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

That is a very pragmatic way of looking at it and I really admire you for that.  Inspired even.

That no matter what happens, whatever the outcome turns out to be, you WILL be OK.  You will survive.

It also got me thinking about how much our ego plays a role in the choices we make with respect to relationships and love and how we choose to love. 

I know for me, my ego is definitely a factor.  It's like, I'm in love with him and I want him, I need him to be in love with ME!  And if he's not in love with me, screw him, bye. 

Is that my love for him speaking, or is it my ego?  Do you (or others) have any thoughts about that?  

Even though as in your case, he brings value and joy to your life, he enhances your already fulfilling life and vice versa.  Which at the end of the day, is what truly matters? 

Back to my post, even having posted it, I acknowledge that he could meet another woman tomorrow who strikes his fancy even IF he were in love with you. 

Anything can happen, no guarantees ever.  It's all a risk.

So what IS love anyway, what does love mean in the grand scheme? 

I'm recently divorced after a short and lonely marriage, I'm truly questioning these things. 😀

I applaud you for asking good questions. I think we all reach benchmark times in our lives when it’s important to challenge the questions, in addition to the answers, that we’ve each held as dogmatic realities in our lives over time.

Our questions are different during adolescence than they are during adulthood, and most of us don’t even recognize that adolescence doesn’t end at age 18. Our brain develops beyond the measurable maturation of our bodies until mid 20’s. So the stuff we accept as gospel during this time is rarely even accurate to apply to our adulthood.

Same is true of our adult lens being applicable to midlife, and so same is true of our midlife lens being applied to mature life.

How much of this maturation is about deliberately letting go of ego versus any common sense development that simply  overrides the younger ego is a valid question, but such are the kinds of questions we as younger souls who seek enlightenment often pose to our elders who can’t necessarily pinpoint their courses of enlightenment that have occurred over a gradient.

So this is just a shout of appreciation for your recognition that One Size does NOT fit all, and even better, the best is yet to come. Age is assigned a lot of negatives by the naive young, but that’s often because the young are not yet capable of grasping what the elders could otherwise teach.

[Batya33]

I agree.  And find it concerning she believes he eventually will fall in love with her and she might make financial/relocation decisions based on that hope.

[Wiseman2]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:42 PM, AndieA said:

I am a widow of almost 6 years, I was 64 at the time my husband died.  I have been dating a man almost 7 years my junior for almost a year 

At 70, you've certainly earned the right to make up your own rules for dating and relationships. If you're happy, enjoy life. It's really that simple. 

[catfeeder]

38 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I agree.  And find it concerning she believes he eventually will fall in love with her and she might make financial/relocation decisions based on that hope.

I respect your insights, yet I don’t assign the same degree of naïveté to a 70 year old OP. I trust her grounded choices along with her ability to recover if those don’t play out as she would wish.

I do trust your heart being in the right place.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, catfeeder said:

I respect your insights, yet I don’t assign the same degree of naïveté to a 70 year old OP. I trust her grounded choices along with her ability to recover if those don’t play out as she would wish.

I do trust your heart being in the right place.

I do. I've seen so many older people not be naive -just vulnerable- especially after a long marriage.  And make choices that have financial and other consequences.  

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I agree.  And find it concerning she believes he eventually will fall in love with her and she might make financial/relocation decisions based on that hope.

IDK Bat, what I'm seeing from our OP is the opposite.

That she IS fully aware he may never fall in love with her, she's accepted that possibility and has chosen to move forward regardless.

Versus secretly hoping he falls in love with her and basing her decisions on that hope. 

I could be wrong but that's how I interpret it.  

 

[catfeeder]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

…what I'm seeing from our OP is the opposite.

That she IS fully aware he may never fall in love with her, she's accepted that possibility and has chosen to move forward regardless.

Versus secretly hoping he falls in love with her and basing her decisions on that hope. 

I could be wrong but that's how I interpret it.  

 

Yep. Just raising the suggestion to pull back the microscope on typical age ranges with typical agendas. And also suggesting that not every elder is a potential victim of fraud.

It’s actually in our own best interests to recognize and look forward to the wisdom that isn’t boxed in ways we may have been conditioned to believe.

Sometimes the stuff that could otherwise freak us out is perfectly calming for experienced people to embrace. When we can let go of a structured mentality around ‘shoulds’ in older relationships, we can stop getting in our own way before we get there. 😍

[AndieA]

17 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Thank you, Andie. If you think about it, we have already 'found' the best courses for ourselves. This doesn't mean we have all the answers. It just means we've somehow learned how to let go of the habits that we had formed around our more youthful questions. We no longer view those through the same lens that had served us in our youth and possibly mid-life.

There are no guide books to tell us when our infantile lens should be traded for an adolescent one. Then when our adolesent lens should be traded for an early adult one. Then when our early adult lens should be traded for a mid-life one, then when that lens should be traded for a mature one.

We carry remnants of all of these lenses, and it's up to us to learn how to flip those switches. But there's a peace that comes when we do. I think you've been navigating this well!

 

Thank you again and you have assessed the situation very well.  You have a wonderful world view shaped by your experiences.