What’s next?

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have you invited her? She seems too polite to invite herself. Unless you mention it and when you're actually free from gigs and custody, why would she say this?

I haven’t yet invited her during her vacation, but when she was down to her, and we were chilling, I looked at her and said “Dr. lady, you will be always welcome and wanted here”.
 

I tend to try to validate her as much as I possibly can, and historically, she has always said that she really enjoys when I complement her or validate her, mostly because she’s never heard that most of her life.

Here in lies one of the reasons that I think that she may be a bit avoidant. Contrary to what rainbow is saying, I think this lady has been starved for real affection, almost her entire life, including in her childhood. I think this may be really hard for her to manage, because finally, she’s with somebody that shows her the kind of attention and affection that she likely has deserve all of her life, but never felt she got. 

I could see that fairly clearly up until recently, when I could see the look in her eyes when I was with her was one of fantasy, as if I was going to be the lifelong prince that she has always wanted. That seems to have faded. Probably for the better, and I hope it isn’t reading towards the end of the road for her and I. 

Again, I think a lot of my anxiety about her stepping back may be a bit in my head. Of course, I am noticing changes, but that just may be on her end, and have nothing to do with me. That has its own inherent problems, though.

[rainbowsandroses]

13 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Here in lies one of the reasons that I think that she may be a bit avoidant. Contrary to what rainbow is saying, I think this lady has been starved for real affection, almost her entire life, including in her childhood. 

Whirling, first off I never mentioned anything about Dr Lady at all let alone her being an avoidant.

Secondly, you misinterpreted what I posted, I wish I could delete those posts now but I can't. 

Kindly, please don't refer to me anymore in your posts.

I'm checking out now and wish y'all the best. 

[Whirling D]

11 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Whirling, first off I never mentioned anything about Dr Lady at all let alone her being an avoidant.

Secondly, you misinterpreted what I posted, I wish I could delete those posts now but I can't. 

Kindly, please don't refer to me anymore in your posts.

I'm checking out now and wish y'all the best. 

I think you misunderstand, rainbow. I wasn’t saying that you thought she was avoidant. I am saying that I think she is avoidant. Sorry for the confusion. I value your input.

[Whirling D]

12 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Whirling, first off I never mentioned anything about Dr Lady at all let alone her being an avoidant.

Secondly, you misinterpreted what I posted, I wish I could delete those posts now but I can't. 

Kindly, please don't refer to me anymore in your posts.

I'm checking out now and wish y'all the best. 

And maybe I wasn’t clear. When I said, contrary to what you were saying, I meant about me… You are saying that it is me that is avoidant, and I am saying that I think it may be her. There’s nothing absolute, though.

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

And maybe I wasn’t clear. When I said, contrary to what you were saying, I meant about me… You are saying that it is me that is avoidant, and I am saying that I think it may be her. There’s nothing absolute, though.

I think you are both avoidant, you are the "passive avoider" and she's the "active avoider", two sides of the same coin. 

If you go forward with her, those roles will likely shift at certain times, with her being the passive avoider and you being the active. 

I don't expect you will understand this, so that is all I will say. 

Ciao. 

[Whirling D]

10 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think you are both avoidant, you are the "passive avoider" and she's the "active avoider", two sides of the same coin. 

If you go forward with her, those roles will likely shift at certain times, with her being the passive avoider and you being the active. 

I don't expect you will understand this, so that is all I will say. 

Ciao. 

Of course I understand what you are saying.

[Whirling D]

Here are perfect examples and very in-depth insightful video about anxious attachment style.

 

 

 

[Whirling D]

Here’s one about avoidant. Brilliant woman._

I haven’t watched the since last week, so I don’t recall how specific they get about the attachment styles.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

41 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I haven’t yet invited her during her vacation, but...

She's not "selfish" if she doesn't invite herself. If you want her to visit ask her and tell her when you'll be free.  

[Batya33]

I wonder why you claim to be so open minded and yet have such tired old negative clichés and generalizations about people - specifically those who have careers or professions as opposed to jobs they do primarily to make money as opposed to being passionate and or enthusiastic about their professional life. It’s astonishing to me that you see yourself as open minded.

Why because it’s ok to bash people who you perceive as having more money or professional success than you and who you perceive to be not into contributing to their community or individuals who might need some sort of support ?  perceptions not reality IMO. 
I feel a bit offended personally every time you repeat these stereotypes.  It’s why I think you likely get in your own way when it comes to meaningful and happy romantic relationships.  

No I wasn’t attracted romantically to men who spoke or moved in an effeminate way. I also wasn’t attracted to men who were focused on body building or had those personal trainer type physiques. No thanks. And I know many women who were attracted to both and several women personally who married men who look and act very effeminate.  (And I’ve written that I preferred shorter men and married and love a man who is short )

I am petite and never had that hourglass figure type. I was cute enough and attractive enough but not a head turner by any means. I’m incredibly approachable for whatever reason. I’m the gal all the tourists approach to ask questions - especially in the major city I grew up in. And yet Im also quite spunky and tough and had to be especially in my 15 year full time male dominated career.  Despite being short.

Im a mish mash.  Just like most people I know who can’t be boxed into stereotypes and negative cliches. To me that’s what I love in general about meeting people.
 

Even if I have a penchant to label or make assumptions more often then not I’m proven wrong. I love being proven wrong. It makes life more fun!  I’m sorry you’re so stuck in your beliefs especially the negative ones. Don’t you get bored with it ?  Why not let people surprise you more?

[bluecastle]

34 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I could see that fairly clearly up until recently, when I could see the look in her eyes when I was with her was one of fantasy, as if I was going to be the lifelong prince that she has always wanted.

What's interesting about this, from where I sit, is just how much it mirrors your own lens in all this. Yes, you're putting it in the context of something you could "see fairly clearly" in her eyes, thanks to your heightened powers of perception, but you had more or less deemed her your own personal savior when she was just a match on a dating app.

And what is the major source of your own anxiety, if we boil it all down to the essence? Anything—a pause between effusive texts, a comment about your hair—that diminishes that fantasy. 

Which, hey, happens. We all come into things with Big Hopes, which is to say hopes that predate whoever we meet and that we invariably start projecting all over a new prospect at the flash of warmth and chemistry. Higher the initial thirst levels, higher the wattage of the initial projections. No different than a metaphor I think you've used before: how the man who has been stranded in the desert will see a drop of water as an eternal spring. 

The other part of that metaphor, though, is that a drop of water is in reality only ever a drop of water. It may bring a moment of relief to the stranded nomad, but it will not bring actual sustenance. 

Anyway, the best thing about reality, for my money, is that it is always bigger and weightier than fantasy. Whatever's up with her—be it an actual distancing or a perceived one on your end—you two are actually getting to know one another and can see how those real weights land on the scale. My personal attitude is that you know they're landing well when the weight does not create personal imbalance.

Your own math might be different. 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

 has NEVER had a peaceful and truly intimate relationship with a women. 

Not everyone wants peace. Some people crave drama. If it's not found, it's created. 

[LootieTootie]

49 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

 

Do you wonder why I’m like this? 

 

I think at your age, you pretty much know who you are. I do think the older you get, you don't want to miss out. I'm in my 30s and noticed people in my age group have this FOMO (fear of missing out symptom).

& to be honest with you, I think you and drlady's are kind of grasping for straws here because the incompatibilities are real but you don't want to miss out on not having a lover/spouse to grow old with. Because you're right. At your age, dating is a whole lot harder. So I am hopeful that you and drlady can work thru the incompatibilities and find a balance. I think the fact that you both are still dating/talking is a good sign. But I think you both also need to learn and grow together and this mean sometimes you step back and let her lead. 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Not everyone wants peace. Some people crave drama. If it's not found, it's created. 

Totally agree!  And posted that.

"Some people are comfortable in the uncomfortable."  

Posted that a couple of times and was the main point of my posts which I wish I could delete but cannot.

[Batya33]

I wanted to add. No judgment here of people who work as a means to an end.  Who choose trades over professions and choose not to attain a 4 year college degree.  People who choose not to work and rely on meager savings and live day to day minimalist.  It’s all good and all ok.
My grandpa I think finished 4th grade and washed windows and stopped to eat his brown bag lunch and came home for dinner every night.  I’m so inspired by what he did as a newbie to America in the early 20th century.

And he told me it was more important to be able to make a good cup of coffee to land a husband than to do well in grad school. Except I married s non coffee drinker lol.  Who my grandpa would have adored cause he’s salt of jet earth.
And also highly educated snd incredibly successful. And brilliant. and humble like his own father who was an educator of teenagers most of his life. 

But I always knew better than to pursue a man who saw working as a means to an end unless he was also an artist - and not just by hobby. I know of many artists who support their art by working in restaurants or other side hustles. I likely wouldn’t have been s good match for that person but I respect passion for one’s work whether it’s s paying job or your calling - your art.  And I don’t box in artists as “types “ either. Because I know too many who don’t fit into those stereotypes. 

[Whirling D]

42 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I wonder why you claim to be so open minded and yet have such tired old negative clichés and generalizations about people - specifically those who have careers or professions as opposed to jobs they do primarily to make money as opposed to being passionate and or enthusiastic about their professional life. It’s astonishing to me that you see yourself as open minded.

Why because it’s ok to bash people who you perceive as having more money or professional success than you and who you perceive to be not into contributing to their community or individuals who might need some sort of support ?  perceptions not reality IMO. 
I feel a bit offended personally every time you repeat these stereotypes.  It’s why I think you likely get in your own way when it comes to meaningful and happy romantic relationships.  

No I wasn’t attracted romantically to men who spoke or moved in an effeminate way. I also wasn’t attracted to men who were focused on body building or had those personal trainer type physiques. No thanks. And I know many women who were attracted to both and several women personally who married men who look and act very effeminate.  (And I’ve written that I preferred shorter men and married and love a man who is short )

I am petite and never had that hourglass figure type. I was cute enough and attractive enough but not a head turner by any means. I’m incredibly approachable for whatever reason. I’m the gal all the tourists approach to ask questions - especially in the major city I grew up in. And yet Im also quite spunky and tough and had to be especially in my 15 year full time male dominated career.  Despite being short.

Im a mish mash.  Just like most people I know who can’t be boxed into stereotypes and negative cliches. To me that’s what I love in general about meeting people.
 

Even if I have a penchant to label or make assumptions more often then not I’m proven wrong. I love being proven wrong. It makes life more fun!  I’m sorry you’re so stuck in your beliefs especially the negative ones. Don’t you get bored with it ?  Why not let people surprise you more?

I’m not sure where you are coming up with that, bat.  What exactly is it that you are hearing me say that bashes people with professions or money? 
 

I have always said that I am happy for the doctor lady, and I admire what she has. I don’t need what she has, but it would be useful for me for you to point out where you feel like I am bashing her?

If I do criticize something, it’s usually specific to some personal characteristic or something, and she could likely find some of the same things to gripe about regarding me.

 

If I do criticize something, it’s usually specific to some personal characteristic or something, and she could likely find some of the same things to gripe about regarding me.

I try to be open minded? I guess I don’t know what I don’t know

[Whirling D]

46 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

What's interesting about this, from where I sit, is just how much it mirrors your own lens in all this. Yes, you're putting it in the context of something you could "see fairly clearly" in her eyes, thanks to your heightened powers of perception, but you had more or less deemed her your own personal savior when she was just a match on a dating app.

And what is the major source of your own anxiety, if we boil it all down to the essence? Anything—a pause between effusive texts, a comment about your hair—that diminishes that fantasy. 

Which, hey, happens. We all come into things with Big Hopes, which is to say hopes that predate whoever we meet and that we invariably start projecting all over a new prospect at the flash of warmth and chemistry. Higher the initial thirst levels, higher the wattage of the initial projections. No different than a metaphor I think you've used before: how the man who has been stranded in the desert will see a drop of water as an eternal spring. 

The other part of that metaphor, though, is that a drop of water is in reality only ever a drop of water. It may bring a moment of relief to the stranded nomad, but it will not bring actual sustenance. 

Anyway, the best thing about reality, for my money, is that it is always bigger and weightier than fantasy. Whatever's up with her—be it an actual distancing or a perceived one on your end—you two are actually getting to know one another and can see how those real weights land on the scale. My personal attitude is that you know they're landing well when the weight does not create personal imbalance.

Your own math might be different. 

 

 

I think you anre absolutely spot on blue. I think I wrote the other day about how I thought that it was also my fantasy that was coming somewhat crashing down when she seemed to clearly not care for my long hair. I think it bruised my ego… And pretty much put holes in the fantasy that I was going to find someone that loved me exactly how I am. 

My main goal has been to prevent myself from doing things are saying things that will sabotage the situation. I’m trying not to run away. I’m trying to get to know her as the person she is. And I think she’s trying to do that with me too.

We just had a nice conversation on the phone. Everything went pretty well. Wasn’t lovey-dovey… But I’m starting to not really look for that. I look at her more now as somebody I care about, and who I know cares about me… It’s becoming much more real life.

I think it’s really in my head, that fantasy, that gets me into all kinds of anxiety trouble when I haven’t seen her for a while. I start thinking the worst. I don’t know whether the worst is going to happen or not. But it didn’t happen today, and I’m thankful for that.

I will be thankful, Also, if it doesn’t happen tomorrow.

For now, I rest. 

[Whirling D]

41 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

I think at your age, you pretty much know who you are. I do think the older you get, you don't want to miss out. I'm in my 30s and noticed people in my age group have this FOMO (fear of missing out symptom).

& to be honest with you, I think you and drlady's are kind of grasping for straws here because the incompatibilities are real but you don't want to miss out on not having a lover/spouse to grow old with. Because you're right. At your age, dating is a whole lot harder. So I am hopeful that you and drlady can work thru the incompatibilities and find a balance. I think the fact that you both are still dating/talking is a good sign. But I think you both also need to learn and grow together and this mean sometimes you step back and let her lead. 

This is absolutely true… I’m trying to step back a bit and give her some breathing space.
 

For example, for the last month or so, I’ve been calling her every morning as she drives into work. She has always said she likes it, but she hasn’t been encouraging it yet this week. So, when we were finished with our video call right now, she said, OK “I’ll talk to you tomorrow… Love you“, and I didn’t feel the need to ask when we would talk, or whether she would want me to call her in the morning for her ride.   
 

Part of me wonders if I should call her in the morning anyway, because it might be a little bit of a surprise to her. But part of me also find the value of giving her space. She hasn’t asked me to call her in the morning, and even last night, I specifically asked when would be a good time to call her… She didn’t say “in the morning” like she pretty much had for the last month or so, so I took that as a sign to not call her this morning, which I didn’t.

I may call her at some point in the morning this week, but I don’t think it’ll be tomorrow.

[Whirling D]

42 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Totally agree!  And posted that.

"Some people are comfortable in the uncomfortable."  

Posted that a couple of times and was the main point of my posts which I wish I could delete but cannot.

I don’t know if you are directing that comment at me, but I can assure you, drama is not something I crave. Never has been.

I create the drama out of fear, and me being a pretty strong leaning avoidant, you should be able to understand where that’s coming from.

Did you watch either of those videos? 🙂

[rainbowsandroses]

5 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I create the drama out of fear...

Thank you!!   

It's nice to see you're least beginning to understand what motivates your thought process and behaviors.

No I did not watch the videos, I've read more than enough literature on avoidant behavior to understand it. 

 

[bluecastle]

20 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

And pretty much put holes in the fantasy that I was going to find someone that loved me exactly how I am. 

This should not be a fantasy. If you cannot feel this with someone, they aren’t the person for you. 

You two are in a curious spot, since you both got very lovey dovey, very quickly, when you were more or less looking into mirrors and seeing internal fantasies reflected back. It’s kind of like moving to a new town, spending the first two weeks there on LSD, and deeming it the best city in the globe when you might actually be talking about a batch of powerful hallucinogens  

My two cents? What is real should be only bigger and better, and softer and warmer, than whatever fantasies the brain producers. If it’s less than that, what’s the point?

 

[Whirling D]

33 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Thank you!!   

It's nice to see you're least beginning to understand what motivates your thought process and behaviors.

No I did not watch the videos, I've read more than enough literature on avoidant behavior to understand it. 

 

I have been understanding and saying on here that fear has been driving my anxious attachment all along… I’m afraid I’m going to be abandoned. I’m afraid she’s going to leave me. It’s a repeating pattern. I’ve been saying that over and over and over!
 

😊🎶😊

[Whirling D]

20 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

This should not be a fantasy. If you cannot feel this with someone, they aren’t the person for you. 

You two are in a curious spot, since you both got very lovey dovey, very quickly, when you were more or less looking into mirrors and seeing internal fantasies reflected back. It’s kind of like moving to a new town, spending the first two weeks there on LSD, and deeming it the best city in the globe when you might actually be talking about a batch of powerful hallucinogens  

My two cents? What is real should be only bigger and better, and softer and warmer, than whatever fantasies the brain producers. If it’s less than that, what’s the point?

 

Yeah, and I think we are both now just getting used to the fact that we aren’t perfect… And our armpits are still going to smell when we are near each other… 😵‍💫😵‍💫. I know, not a great analogy, but I think you get my drift… of odor… 😂

[rainbowsandroses]

12 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I have been understanding and saying on here that fear has been driving my anxious attachment all along… I’m afraid I’m going to be abandoned. I’m afraid she’s going to leave me. It’s a repeating pattern. I’ve been saying that over and over and over!
 

😊🎶😊

I know but it's the first time you have admitted to creating drama because of it. 

Drama that is unnecessary and often detrimental to not only the relationship but the two people involved.

But anyway, not here to judge you or insult you. 

In fact, I admire people who "own their shyt" as they say. 

Awareness of your fears and how they can negatively impact your relationships is the first step towards healing them.

Assuming you want to be healed, which at 61 years of age, you may not want to. 

 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

13 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

… I’m afraid I’m going to be abandoned. I’m afraid she’s going to leave me. 
 

😊🎶😊

It doesn't seem so. Because when she gently suggested your hair would look nice pulled back and maybe on rare occasions you could wear it that way, you read her the riot act and gave her a veiled breakup threat. So, that's not really "fear of abandonment", that was a several page catastrophic meltdown replete with several paragraphs about how awful and mean and superficial  and judgemental and stuck up, etc etc etc. she was. So rethink whether you're really "afraid" of anything. Or you just prefer to have your say.