brother and sister sex!!!!!!!!

[asdf]

I am not saying we are above other animals.

 

Your argument was that humans are like all other animals and the only thing stopping humans from mating with their first blood relations is socials structure.

 

That is simply not true. Wild animals do not mate with their siblings or parents unless environmental conditions make it imperative.

 

I made no mention of whether it is morally wrong or otherwise.

 

The asking if it was morally wrong was just to state that it doesn't complete an argument about the morality of incest.

 

And for the argument, out points don't disalign. I never said society is the only thing stopping incest, I said it's the main reason people think it's morally wrong. I agree it's usually the case that people don't find intercourse with relatives interesting (I have stated this many times, and even mentioned the Westermark effect). There's a difference between why people think it's morally wrong and why people don't do it.

[wierdo]

eeeew...

 

does that clear it up? no?

 

what about... wrong wrong wrong.

 

sorry, but that's just bizarre. there is no justification.. that's like saying "you can't help who you are attracted to" It's not a defense in child abuse cases, now is it?

 

 

and it's the dude's sister. i mean.. he wouldn't tell the family..

"so, billy, what have you been up to"..

"oh, shagging the pants of Jane"

 

i think not. At least he knows its wrong. the 12 year old sounds a little bit lead astray.

threaten to dob him in.

i would.

[asdf]

eeeew...

 

does that clear it up? no?

 

what about... wrong wrong wrong.

 

sorry, but that's just bizarre. there is no justification.. that's like saying "you can't help who you are attracted to" It's not a defense in child abuse cases, now is it?

 

 

and it's the dude's sister. i mean.. he wouldn't tell the family..

"so, billy, what have you been up to"..

"oh, shagging the pants of Jane"

 

i think not. At least he knows its wrong. the 12 year old sounds a little bit lead astray.

threaten to dob him in.

i would.

 

The concern of child abuse cases is the underagedness of the children. I'm just arguing that incest isn't nessesarily something wrong. I'm against this particular example because they're both underage. But not because they're brother and sister.

[G_Casanova]

It frightens me somewhat that this discussion is so long...

Anyway, it was mentioned above (when exchanges were touching on inbreeding depression) that siblings are more closely related, genetically, than parents and children. I don't think this is true. Mother and father both share half of their genetic complement with each child. Two different offspring, however, could potentially get anywhere from 0-100% in common genes, with the average being half, I believe.

[sweet_bebcho]

Havent been here in a few days and I cant believe that this post is stll going! You really need to do something quickly. Tell someone. Everyday when you let this go by, it probably happens again and again. You could be the voice of reason in all of this. Speak to your friend soon or someone of authority. ie her parents.

 

She could be abusing her little brother right now. I was abused as a child by a neighbour and I know how it feels. Its confusing and traumatizing as hell and you just dont know what to do. Maybe if i'd told someone then they could have done something but I didnt and the fact that you know that this is happening and you do nothing, i'm really conserned for both your friend and her brother especially.

 

I'm not comng down on you I just wihs that you tell someone Now! Get them help.

[asdf]

It frightens me somewhat that this discussion is so long...

 

Anyway, it was mentioned above (when exchanges were touching on inbreeding depression) that siblings are more closely related, genetically, than parents and children. I don't think this is true. Mother and father both share half of their genetic complement with each child. Two different offspring, however, could potentially get anywhere from 0-100% in common genes, with the average being half, I believe.

 

Ergh, not that simple. Some genes from mother and father are definitely passed on to all children that they will have. There's a minimum amount of similarity I think, don't really remember. I think it varies between couples too.

[Drawing_Queen]

This is sort of sick but tell her that her little brother's penis is too small and won't give her the pleasure that she could get from you.

 

hello i'm a girl not a boy

 

from cc

[BellaDonna]

I couldn't even read through some of the replies to this post because I was ASTONISHED and DISGUSTED to see that there are some people that see nothing inherently wrong with siblings having sex.

 

All I can say is that if we always hold the wishy washy view that things are only "socially" wrong, and that everything is relative, the world will go to shambles. We could start saying that murder is ok, and that only "society" sees murdering as "wrong". I mean, you can make all kinds of excuses for all kinds of atrocities with that relative reasoning. Where do you draw the line?

 

Seeing that they live in today's society, it's impossible for them to take part in this behavior without feeling hurt later. As long as they live in a social environment, this is going to cause them major problems, likely for the rest of their lives.

 

I consider myself a very open-minded, liberal person. Yet there's no way in my mind that a brother and sister having sex is "right".

 

As much as I wanted to "experiment" as a teenager, I would NEVER look to my own relatives. I would almost wonder if there's a history of sexual abuse which exists in their household which makes the brother and sister in question think this is ok. Something is really wrong there.

[asdf]

well why is it wrong then?

 

as for your comment on murder, i have to also agree i think murder is only considered wrong because it's not beneficial for society (if everybody started killing each other for no reason to benefit society, it's criminal, but when it's murder in self defense, or in war, or when society doesn't deem the murdered important such as a slave in the old days, then they don't care).

 

survival of the fittest set of social standards. most morals taught by society are revolved around doing what's best for the society. it's another level of evolution.

 

i, myself, don't believe that there are universal moral standards, and that "right" and "wrong" are just subjective to each person, usually to whatever will benefit that person the most.

[BellaDonna]

Ahhhh...using the world of moral relativism...to justify incest.

 

It's a brutality that revolts my senses.

 

"right" and "wrong" are just subjective to each person, usually to whatever will benefit that person the most.

 

I wonder how one could possibly "benefit" from believing sibling sex is "right".

 

well why is it wrong then?

 

I refuse to debate a topic so sickening.

[darkblue]

I believe the point in this topic now is discussing whether or not it IS morally wrong.

 

I've not heard from Napoleon Bonaparte in a while.. but something tells me the reopening of this topic will attract his attention

 

I look forward to that..

 

The 'Justifications' For incest have been stated as:

 

. Exploration of sexual intercourse

 

. Morals that are held differently by different people.

 

. Some people will say that the only reason we feel this disgust about incest, is through society and how it is 'imprinted on us'

 

Feel free to attack each one of these issues

 

I will:

 

1. Exploration - There are plenty of other men/women out there to practise or explore on.. not your own family members.

 

2. Morals - Some morals should be held by all.

 

3. Society makes these 'imprints' for a reason.

 

No doubt there is much more to come.

[asdf]

Ahhhh...using the world of moral relativism...to justify incest.

 

It's a brutality that revolts my senses.

 

"right" and "wrong" are just subjective to each person, usually to whatever will benefit that person the most.

 

I wonder how one could possibly "benefit" from believing sibling sex is "right".

 

well why is it wrong then?

 

I refuse to debate a topic so sickening.

 

For your first part, what I was trying to say is "right" and "wrong" is subjective. If a person gains sexual pleasure out of it, and feel that there is no immorality to it, then in their minds, they are not doing anything wrong. May not be a moral act, but not an immoral act (to them).

 

Key word in what I said was "considered" wrong. I didn't say murder was actually wrong. And I did not say I considered it wrong either. My point I was trying to get accross is that society select morals based on works best for the society. Thus what society tells you is right and wrong is not a universal sense of right or wrong, but just what happens to work for that society.

 

And for your refusal to debate a topic so sickening, that's your choice, but don't expect that to push your point forward.

 

I'm not promoting the whole incest thing, I just don't believe that you can label a right and wrong to it. I consider myself an amoral person, but I can understand the concept of why killing or raping would be considered immoral (under the assumptions that life is sacred and that people should not be forced to have sex with somebody they don't want to.) But I cannot understand why people would think iincest is wrong other than it just being told to them. I'm not saying people should be attracted to their family members, I'm just saying if they are, so what?

[asdf]

I believe the point in this topic now is discussing whether or not it IS morally wrong.

 

I've not heard from Napoleon Bonaparte in a while.. but something tells me the reopening of this topic will attract his attention

 

I look forward to that..

 

The 'Justifications' For incest have been stated as:

 

. Exploration of sexual intercourse

 

. Morals that are held differently by different people.

 

. Some people will say that the only reason we feel this disgust about incest, is through society and how it is 'imprinted on us'

 

Feel free to attack each one of these issues

 

I will:

 

1. Exploration - There are plenty of other men/women out there to practise or explore on.. not your own family members.

 

2. Morals - Some morals should be held by all.

 

3. Society makes these 'imprints' for a reason.

 

No doubt there is much more to come.

 

1. It is true that there are other men/women to practice and explore on, but that's still not a reason to exclude family members out of it.

 

2. Why should some morals be held by all people?

 

3. I agree with this one. It is probably because most people generally don't find their family members attractive, it's a phenomenon that's been studied known as the Westermark effect (probably the tenth time I've mentioned this). It is believed that when a person is in their infancy, the people they spend most time with have been imprinted to them as not sexually attractive. It is also a fact that without this affect, people are attracted to other people who have similar facial and other physical traits. There was a study showing that opposite sex heterosexual twins separated at birth (and thus did not imprint on each other in infancy) found each other extremely attractive. Attraction between genetic people who have not had each other imprinted on them is actually nearly guaranteed in most of these situations.

The theory of why the Westermark effect is there is that it is evolutions way of preventing inbreeding (a diversity of genes is preferred so that offspring can inherit resistance to most diseases. This is also interesting since people do find similar looking people attractive, but search for diveresity in genes).

I find society's view on this to just be a reflection of the natural biological sentiment. Most people don't find their family members attractive, and consider sex with them to be unattractive, so it becomes considered "wrong".

[darkblue]

1. Would you consider sex with a family member? if so why? if not, why not?

 

2. Laws are set out for a reason, incest is against the law for the reasons that it would be knowingly increasing the risk of producing children with illnesses such as hereditary diseases.

 

I also believe it is morally wrong because these family members are people we have been raised around, we should be looking up to them, I don't think this is possible while having sexual relations with them.

 

3. I'm glad we agree on something. Yes, it may be possible that if we were taken from brothers/sisters at birth, then reunited, we may find them sexual attractive. But the issues of hereditary diseases comes up again.

 

By the way, it's nice to have a civalized debate on the forum again.

[Caldus]

hi it's cc

 

wos up?

 

my best friend down my street (not miya) told me about her having sex with her brother who is 12 and she is 14 she wants to know how i feel about it and not to tell anyone but i thought i needed some help to tell her how i feel about it, also i would like your views on it? l think it's wrong but i don't want to hurt her feelings becasue she is one of my best friends .

 

thanks for reading

 

cc

 

Oh man I'm speechless.

 

She's freakin' 14 for crying out loud! And it's her sibling! Boy people are just becoming sex-crazed animals these days. Even at 14.

[darkblue]

wow you're just everywhere tonight Caldus lol

 

I agree that:

 

1. At 14, It is illegal to have sex in the first place.

2. Incest should not be viewed as 'exploration' as there may be serious consequences.

[dnb007]

wow you're just everywhere tonight Caldus lol

 

I agree that:

 

1. At 14, It is illegal to have sex in the first place.

2. Incest should not be viewed as 'exploration' as there may be serious consequences.

 

Not in Canada...

[asdf]

1. Would you consider sex with a family member? if so why? if not, why not?

 

2. Laws are set out for a reason, incest is against the law for the reasons that it would be knowingly increasing the risk of producing children with illnesses such as hereditary diseases.

 

I also believe it is morally wrong because these family members are people we have been raised around, we should be looking up to them, I don't think this is possible while having sexual relations with them.

 

3. I'm glad we agree on something. Yes, it may be possible that if we were taken from brothers/sisters at birth, then reunited, we may find them sexual attractive. But the issues of hereditary diseases comes up again.

 

By the way, it's nice to have a civalized debate on the forum again.

 

It's nice to have a logical debate. Most people here just say it's gross, etc, and just can't be logically objective about things.

 

1. No, because I don't find any of my family members attractive. However, that may not be the case for other people.

 

2. I don't think laws are set out for genetical reasons. In that line of argument, people who are born with inherited disease, and thus are likely to spread them on to their potential offspring should no longer have to right to breed. Also, it is possible to practice incest with birth control (assuming birth control is allowable in your moral codes). Incest has been considered taboo since at least at the time of Moses (book of Leviticus I think lists out intercourse with relatives as unclean). I don't think they had the biological concept of genes back then.

 

As for the family thing, if your idealisations of how a family should be are like that, then your argument is valid, but keep in mind, not everybody has the same type of family/ideal boundaries of family members. In ancient greece it was very common for a man to have sexual relations with young boys, it was almost a rite of passage for the young boy. These days, there is a concept of "age of consent" where people assume that decisions made by people under that age are not informed. The age of consent thing is also just another abstraction.

[darkblue]

wow you're just everywhere tonight Caldus lol

 

I agree that:

 

1. At 14, It is illegal to have sex in the first place.

2. Incest should not be viewed as 'exploration' as there may be serious consequences.

 

Not in Canada...

 

In Canada, The bill was passed to lower the age of sex to 14. As the boy in this situation is only 12. thereforeeee, it is illegal.

[SexySadie7]

I think it is weird too... Someone told me that Sarah & Abraham of the Bible....you remember them right... were also brother and sister.. I was rather speechless when i heard this..

Does anyone know if this is true..?

google been giving me fits lately

Also in ancient Hawaiian society.. it was considered acceptable if you were royalty to be with your brother or sister sexually.. They considered the lower class inferior and wanted to mate with someone with superior genes.

I find that weird too.. but then i'm not an ancient Hawaiian.

[Lexicon85]

All of my family members are extremely attractive. However, there is no way in hell I'd sleep with any of them, and I do find the notion disgusting. There is a special safety and love that comes with the nonsexual environment of the family... a respect... which if violated could yield emotional disaster.

[asdf]

I think it is weird too... Someone told me that Sarah & Abraham of the Bible....you remember them right... were also brother and sister.. I was rather speechless when i heard this..

Does anyone know if this is true..?

google been giving me fits lately

Also in ancient Hawaiian society.. it was considered acceptable if you were royalty to be with your brother or sister sexually.. They considered the lower class inferior and wanted to mate with someone with superior genes.

I find that weird too.. but then i'm not an ancient Hawaiian.

 

I don't think they were brother and sister. The Bible doesn't explicitly state that they were or that they weren't, it just said that Sarah was beautiful, and Abraham (Abram at that point) was scared that if he told them Sarah was actually his wife, that he'd be in danger (they'd possible kill him and take his wife as a sex slave or something.) Abraham told the Pharaoh that Sarah was his sister, the pharaoh took her anyway but treated Abraham quite well. The Pharaoh was then plagued by God for meddling with another mans wife.

 

And it's not just in Hawaiian society. Many Royal European family's bred with each other just to keep the blood royal. Same with Egyptian royalty I think.