Should I go to HR or the next manager in line?

[Moontiger]

Document EVERYTHING:

 

Your conversations with him.

Your time/hours spent training Ber.

Your accomplished tasks and goals.

His response to hour concerns a d problems.

 

I had to do this once, and when I walked I to an HR meeting g because I was going g to be "reprimanded", I took out my legal pad of notes. The person asked "what is that?"

 

On, its a log of every conversation and response I have gotten from A since this issue started. In addition, it logs my accomplishments and production OUTSIDE of my JOB rescription.

 

HR sent me home for the rest of the day, told me they would benspeaking with my boss and that should any further.problems arise...come.directly to them.

 

Completely agree with this! Document document document.

 

Also next time your boss asks you to train her or do one of her tasks, say in a neutral tone, "Unfortunately, I am completely swamped right now. I have several important deadlines coming up."

 

Next time your boss calls you into his off you bring the legal note pad Mhowe was talking about and show that you have been told by him you are doing nothing wrong and that in a short about of time she has filed several complaints about you but has never been clear about why nor tried to work directly with you.

[mhowe]

I would NOT show this to your boss. I would hold this for ammunition with HR against your boss at some point in the future to use as necessary. Continue seeking the type of feedback you have as to how/what you could do differently, what he would like you to prioritize, etc. And document every damn conversation you have with him and your coworker.

[itsallgrand]

Mhowe's suggestion is a good one.

 

The thing is, don't cover the butt of your manager. By keeping your nose clean, and documenting everything, and being upfront, you remove yourself from this game. And it is a game.

The manager has an agenda he is trying to accomplish, the coworker has an agenda she is trying to accomplish. You are just trying to do your work and be a good employee.

 

I do sense in your posts, a type of loyalty to the manager. I would check that fast because it is clear he does not have a loyalty to you. Be professional, yes. But don't make it easier for him to use you.

[Hell_On_Heels]

After thinking about this for a bit and rereading what you wrote, I think your tilting at windmills here. As in, you have to think about the game you have to play and what he means by "coexist".

Here's what I would do if I were you: don't play this game.

Are you required to train her? Is that your responsibility? Sounds like his. I would wash my hands of that. If not, get rid of her, as soon as she can be on her own.

You are not responsible for her after that. That's your bosses responsibility.

Put everything back on her. You don't have to help her do.her work. She misses a meeting, don't worry about it. Just note you had it scheduled. It's you putting in a boundary. That's it. She is the type who will mess herself up. Give her the rope to hang herself. Let her do that. You come across as the professional one. Make sure your work is solid. Complaints to HR make you look like a troubled employee and not a team player. It is not the Avenue to fix this. Working on your boss in a way to show how she isn't all that is the key. It's not about winning this battle, it's about winning the war. What is your strategy on how to neutralize her? She is playing checkers. You must play chess. Think out your moves. Sometimes when you work, you have to ready to "bloody" someone else. She sounds like a passive agressive bully. You must be bold!

Within the working world it is a game of gotcha these days. The first person to complain is the winner and it places you on the defensive. You want to be on the offensive and hit her back hard. When the time is right.

In my world, I destroy someone who acts like this. It may take me time, but there is always a way to trip up someone who acts like this.

 

This made me laugh, because I like to win the war rather than the battle myself. To be blunt and rude, my coworker is a toddler having a fit. My issue is not with her, but with her "parent" who refuses to correct her.

 

In one week, she has done 3 or 4 things that make her look bad, and the controller is aware of them all. In 2 of those instances, I was there and looked very good. Not because I'm awesome, but just because I know my job and I do my job. In 3 of those instances, she has made the controller look bad.

 

The controller has aligned himself with the 2 people who will never help him succeed. I believe they will do him more harm than good in the end - this coworker and her manager.

 

The controller has also gotten himself into some hot water the past months because he isn't monitoring the books, and that's the sum total of his job. He then blames everyone but himself. My instinct says that he is on his way out -

 

Our CFO is awesome. I love her. She's extremely smart, knows her stuff, she's hard but fair, and she isn't shy to let you know what she thinks. Her position within our national company is to move to a location, fix it, and then move to another one. If I could, I'd follow her around the country for rest of my career. She has a reputation as a hatchet man, as she removes the nonsense, and leaves the best employees.

 

I don't think she's impressed with the controller. She didn't hire him. She seems to do all she can for you - offers direction, clarity on her expectations, and time to get it together. And then WHAM! If you can't do it, she replaces you. It's not personal for her. I absolutely admire and respect her.

 

I'm pretty sure she knows a lot of what's going on, and is giving him time to get it together. She's also been giving direction on the management style she expects to be used. (The managers have been telling me about it, and I've been seeing the books she bought for them all.)

 

All that being said, I think the war isn't against my coworker, but against the controller. I don't want that, because I like him personally and he brought me down to this location. But we can't function effectively if he continues the way he has been. My loyalty is limited.

 

I'm in a funny little spot right now. I was willing to leave my last location for the opportunity, but also because my last manager was insane. Certifiable. She has just recently "resigned" and I'm still there in good standing. She and I were definitely at war, about everything, and everyone knew we were at opposite ends of the spectrum. If I were still at that location, it'd be assumed I'd take her position. Even being far away, people are asking me if I'll apply, and many of the staff have asked me to. I'd be their manager. Last week, the guy who runs that location sent some flattering emails about me to the controller.

 

So the controller knows I could possibly leave, and he also knows that ultimately, I beat my former manager with not a lot of effort. It's doing strange things to my reputation, and I haven't quite caught on to all of those nuances yet.

 

I have no intention of applying, unless personally asked and even then, I wouldn't apply without the blessing of the CFO. I haven't completed my work goals here, and I don't want to leave it in flux for someone else to suffer through. When people make mistakes on my job, it costs the company millions. Also, I'm still burnt out on managing employees, and not ready to get back into it yet, if ever.

 

Soooo, yes, I'm thinking the war is with the controller, and that I have to play just right. Be cooperative without killing myself or setting myself up to always be the workhorse. Be firm and protect myself without attacking my coworker or my controller. Basically, behave with grace and professionalism without being a patsy.

 

...and I can't see clearly what that looks like...

[Hell_On_Heels]

Mhowe's suggestion is a good one.

 

The thing is, don't cover the butt of your manager. By keeping your nose clean, and documenting everything, and being upfront, you remove yourself from this game. And it is a game.

The manager has an agenda he is trying to accomplish, the coworker has an agenda she is trying to accomplish. You are just trying to do your work and be a good employee.

 

I do sense in your posts, a type of loyalty to the manager. I would check that fast because it is clear he does not have a loyalty to you. Be professional, yes. But don't make it easier for him to use you.

 

These are great posts, very helpful. Thank you all

 

Yes, I do have some residual loyalty to him. I'm working through it, because I have to cut it off. I think he's banking on me staying loyal to him. He was my customer for a year, and he knows I spent many long hours making sure I had everything perfect for him/his location. He was aware of how hard I had to fight my previous manager to accomplish that. (My previous manager was really awful, and was forced to resign last week.) He was determined to hire me and put my skills to work for him. It was mutually beneficial, so I agreed.

 

Some loyalty from me is natural, but his behavior is changing the relationship. He's forcing it into a him-or-me situation, and I have to choose me.

 

You're very perceptive

 

eta: Our company is a charity hospital chain. Every dime we earn goes directly towards providing health care for those who can't afford it. When I lose my way, I have to remember all of those people. They take priority over any manager. I need to keep that thought in my head.

[journeynow]

With this coworker, I get 15 minutes notice, and I'm frequently still training myself on it.

 

Oh, my, you have to drop everything and run to her aid? Can you say "I have such and such on my schedule this morning; I can fit her in _________ or __________; if you need me to shift priorities, we'll need to shift the deadline on such and such"? Coexist by offering options that work better for you or give you an element of control. While she waits for your availability she might figure it out on her own. Maybe a win-win.

 

Document EVERYTHING:

 

Your conversations with him.

Your time/hours spent training Ber.

Your accomplished tasks and goals.

His response to hour concerns a d problems.

 

I'd also document the primary task it is taking me away from. Dropping what you are doing on 15 minutes notice for 15 minutes of training (perhaps) can take an hour out of your workflow/efficiency. You don't want her need for training to impact the quality of your required work.

[Moontiger]

I'm no expert but I feel like her behavior is just a hair shy of creating a hostile work environment for you.

 

You might find the website Ask A Manger helpful she posts a ton of advice from a managers perspective.

[Hell_On_Heels]

Oh, my, you have to drop everything and run to her aid? Can you say "I have such and such on my schedule this morning; I can fit her in _________ or __________; if you need me to shift priorities, we'll need to shift the deadline on such and such"? Coexist by offering options that work better for you or give you an element of control. While she waits for your availability she might figure it out on her own. Maybe a win-win.

 

I'd also document the primary task it is taking me away from. Dropping what you are doing on 15 minutes notice for 15 minutes of training (perhaps) can take an hour out of your workflow/efficiency. You don't want her need for training to impact the quality of your required work.

 

I think that my coworker and the controller randomly decide things, and then let me know at the last minute. It's very disruptive to me, since I often have emergency tasks thrown in from the home office, too. It doesn't scream that the controller is remotely interested in my success.

 

He's also decided that I should work a later shift during our month end close. He didn't discuss it with me, and there is no business need for me to change my schedule. He just does stuff like this, and doesn't explain it at all. I like to work at 7am, because it's quiet, and early morning is my most productive time.

 

I dunno, he just doesn't seem to think things through, or consider what's best for the team (and himself).

 

I am supposed to show her something today. I didn't do any prep for it because she's done this many times already, and of course, she'll complain and the controller will be on me no matter what I do. I know that's not a good attitude on my part.

 

I like your ideas about workflow and efficiency, and about the priority of my own tasks. I've just received some information I've been waiting for (for months), and it will take some time and focus to work this into my desk. I could also work in the fact that if she doesn't fix her error that impacts me, she will cost us $900K. Maybe she can focus on that instead of how awful she thinks everyone else is. The CFO will eat her for breakfast if/when she finds out it's not being corrected...and I would enjoy that, lol, but really, it just needs to be fixed.

 

Off to battle the dragons

[Hell_On_Heels]

I'm no expert but I feel like her behavior is just a hair shy of creating a hostile work environment for you.

 

You might find the website Ask A Manger helpful she posts a ton of advice from a managers perspective.

 

Thank you for the website. I've been looking over there, and will continue to read. It's a fine line. I want to stand up for myself, and at the same time, I don't want to be viewed as someone who throws managers under the bus (even when they've earned it).

 

I didn't report any extreme behavior from my last manager, not ever. Once the high level managers caught on to her and forced her to resign, I was vindicated. It was suddenly clear why I left that location, and why many in the company were asking for me to go back. I look professional, trustworthy. I still have good relationships with those managers. I need to do the same thing here. I'm just not sure how I'll accomplish that.

[journeynow]

I am supposed to show her something today. I didn't do any prep for it because she's done this many times already, and of course, she'll complain and the controller will be on me no matter what I do. I know that's not a good attitude on my part.

 

Hmm, since she should know this, how about approaching it differently, tell her she's done it before and already has experience with it and have her show you how she would approach it and explain it to you as she goes. That way you can see perhaps what is tripping her up. Or, show her the basics of what you need to show her, and have her demonstrate her understanding back to you. Before she leaves ask her if she understands so SHE is telling YOU face-to-face that your training is satisfactory at that moment. Then, as mentioned before, document the whole thing and, in addition, evaluate her performance and ability to learn. Basically start rating her ability to learn and retain the task and keep in in your documentation. If you feel you can, start specifying and communicating how much time you can allot for these trainings. If it continues, can you have your boss sit in to observe, or some how convey that she is not up to the task, needs too much hand holding, or that the company needs to bring in special trainers?

[journeynow]

When you learned this stuff on your own, where did you go for the information? Can you give her a list of resources she can use to get her answer and encourage her to use her own initiative? If the boss calls you in again, maybe give him a copy of the list and explain that those are the resources you used to gain your understanding, and they should work well for her (somehow implying that she is requiring more hand-holding than someone in her position should need. She may not be up to the task and is wrong for the job.)

[Moontiger]

Do everything journeynow says!

 

I'm also a big fan of what I call "confirmation" emails when dealing with difficult co-workers. In this case, after training you would send her an email that says something like "Hi (name), Just wanted to check in regarding the training on (task(s) ). Let me know if you have any additional questions regarding (main points int he training you gave her)."

 

This way there is a physical record of you reaching out to her and it's not just your word against hers about if you are being helpful.

[Hell_On_Heels]

Hmm, since she should know this, how about approaching it differently, tell her she's done it before and already has experience with it and have her show you how she would approach it and explain it to you as she goes. That way you can see perhaps what is tripping her up. Or, show her the basics of what you need to show her, and have her demonstrate her understanding back to you. Before she leaves ask her if she understands so SHE is telling YOU face-to-face that your training is satisfactory at that moment. Then, as mentioned before, document the whole thing and, in addition, evaluate her performance and ability to learn. Basically start rating her ability to learn and retain the task and keep in in your documentation. If you feel you can, start specifying and communicating how much time you can allot for these trainings. If it continues, can you have your boss sit in to observe, or some how convey that she is not up to the task, needs too much hand holding, or that the company needs to bring in special trainers?

 

I love this What an excellent approach!

 

It went well, as far as I know. I started with assuring her that she had done this before and so it would be easy to learn. She did have some questions later - I was in the controller's office at the time, so he listened to us work it through. It was a good question, and I just led her through a short series of critical thinking steps. She got it. I made a small accounting joke, we laughed, and she went on her way.

 

The controller looked almost mad. I got the impression he didn't like the encounter - but why not? It's no different than any other time I've worked with her. It's a little disturbing.

 

He also made a pointed comment that he would feel betrayed if I ever said I hated his guts. What!?? He said that we have a friendly relationship and he brought me down to Florida. I was so stunned I didn't have a response.

 

Drama.

 

In other news, the manager who runs my former location - let's call him Joe - Joe sent me an IM yesterday. He hasn't IMed me for almost a year, so this was unusual. He wanted me to let my controller know that my previous manager is leaving. This was odd because Joe and my controller have a great relationship and talk freely without me needing to pass messages. Joe and I got to talking via IM. I offered my support and he said the place needs my laughter. I jokingly asked if there was an opening. And then we got to talking about that. He said he didn't want to pull me away from my controller. But to call him if I wanted to discuss it.

 

Then we launched into conversation about being a leader - he feels he's failed everyone because he didn't see what a monster my former manager was. He wanted to know if that's why I left, and I said yes. We talked about what the team needs, our own humanity, and ideas of how to turn things around.

 

I'll call him late this week or next week - we're all on tight deadlines right now. I don't know if he just wanted to confirm why I'd left, or if he's interested in having me come back for this position. Other people from that location have been calling or IMing and asking me to apply. This all makes me feel terrific!

 

I have to laugh. One of the women who called me last night was astounded when I mentioned a coworker doesn't like my training. She went off, saying I was the best trainer they've ever had, and now training sessions are modeled after my style. It did a lot for my ego, lemme tell ya

 

It's extremely weird to consider going back. It's always been a possibility - even the controller has said so a few times. Just not after 8 months. It's not the idea, but the timing. Yet, who can predict when opportunity will come up? So it's confusing for us all, especially in light of our working relationships with each other. One thing is certain - I will finish what I started here. It's only a matter of a few months. We could even do something unorthodox but totally helpful to cover until they get a new person...and I'm talking as if the job is mine. Sheesh!

 

It's making my head hurt a bit.

[Hell_On_Heels]

Quick follow up - the training this week went well. I admit to being suspicious because my coworker is being oh-so nice. I've used many of the suggestions given here, especially documenting everything and following up with emails. Thank you !!!

 

She has never done one of the tasks (intercompany, for the accountant-types among us) that is transferring to her. I don't mean in our company, I mean ever. She is mind boggled and overwhelmed. I'm certain it will be flipping back to me. Yesterday, the controller told her she didn't have to do any work she didn't want to do, and he said this in front of the team. He's also allowing her to work from home during regular hours and month end when no one else is allowed to do this.

 

The team is getting upset, understandably.

[journeynow]

If it gets flipped back to you, document that, too; defining what is part of your job description. Along with that, I'ld note the things he is saying to her (she doesn't have to do any work she doesn't want to do? Really??) and make note of any witnesses, and any special treatment she is getting.

 

Can you get a copy of her job description? Maybe she's a volunteer? Just kidding, but it's a bit mind-boggling, the special treatment she is getting. I'm a bit suspicious of the relationship between the controller and your coworker. Why is she being mollycoddled?

[Blue_Skirt]

She has never done one of the tasks (intercompany, for the accountant-types among us) that is transferring to her. I don't mean in our company, I mean ever. She is mind boggled and overwhelmed.

Mind boggled over intercompany? Is she capable of doing her job at all without any help?

[Hell_On_Heels]

If it gets flipped back to you, document that, too; defining what is part of your job description. Along with that, I'ld note the things he is saying to her (she doesn't have to do any work she doesn't want to do? Really??) and make note of any witnesses, and any special treatment she is getting.

 

Can you get a copy of her job description? Maybe she's a volunteer? Just kidding, but it's a bit mind-boggling, the special treatment she is getting. I'm a bit suspicious of the relationship between the controller and your coworker. Why is she being mollycoddled?

 

lol @ volunteer! She has the exact same title and job description that I have. The controller just seems crazy about her, which is his business...until he treats the rest of so differently. Then he's making it company business. I'll definitely keep documenting

[Hell_On_Heels]

Mind boggled over intercompany? Is she capable of doing her job at all without any help?

 

I know, right? It took me a full minute to respond because I didn't know what to say. Asking if she could tie her shoes wasn't really appropriate, lol