O man, What now?

[elsalvador]

Well.....found this on the computer this morning.

 

Its from the wife's on line chat buddy.

 

 

 

"Hi Baby;

 

 

 

Thanks for the thoughtful coffee....and going out of your way, and taking

a risk for US to meet. You are awesome.

 

It was fantastic meeting with you in person....you have such kind sparkling

eyes....

 

You were warm and cozy....hot blooded and ticklish like me>? go figure?

 

I am SO GLAD you had a baseball cap on because otherwise I might have gone

crazy with passion if your hair was down......almost guaranteed....hheheheh

 

I love your warm soft lips.....and tongue. You have such a beautiful

kissable neck and ears...I wanted to keep whispering warm soft words into

them while kissing them.

 

Just so you know...you said you could never leave your husband...I hope I

never gave u the impression that suggested anything other than that.

Sorry if I did. I wouldn't leave my wife either.....but I would love to

have an amazing wonderful similar thinking and feeling beautiful hot Leo

lioness to have intimacy with & share good, bad, ups, downs, clean, and

dirty with ...not just sex.

 

Don't know how you feel.....just thought I'd say thanks and tell you my

honest feelings while they were freshin my mind.

 

Always thinking of you........."

 

 

 

I have been married for almost 2 years, together for 12. Never thought it would go this far. Have been "spying" on her online activities for a couple of weeks now. Thought it was only chatting, no big deal. But now I wonder?

Should I stay or should I go? There is a long story behind this one. I will not bore yous with it. If your interested, its in the feelings & Emotions sections. Any one out there with similar stuff like this, could sure use some advice. Feeling empty right now, cont really think of what I should do, except leave.?

[lillady898]

Well, the only things I believe in divorce for is infidelity and any form of abuse (towards the wife/husband or children). So in this case I guess I truly think that you could leave because cheating is just so wrong. It breaches trust in an enormous, terrible way and goes against the vows made in the marriage. However, I do think maybe you should try to sort things out with your wife before you make any decisions. If you then decide to divorce, then so be it. Otherwise, it'll take a lot of work (from both of you) to repair this marriage, that may or may not be worth it. That's my opinion, but with whatever you do, follow your instincts. You know her and yourself better than anyone else likely does. Good luck and I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[RayKay]

Hmmm, scary and I am sure heart sinking to find.

 

Well, obviously he does have feelings for her, although we can't be sure of hers right now as this is a one-sided email. However they must of talked about it if she had told him she could never leave you...and well, the fact that he loves her kissable lips and tongue, and that he does not just want sex, leads me to believe they must have something going on there.

 

While you did come accross it snooping for a period of time (which is not exactly "right") it seems your reasons were justified and you did have a feeling about it that was proved right (I usually believe instinct and gut feelings are often accurate). So....honestly, I would confront her. Yes, she might try and turn it around on you for looking, but really, you deserve to know whether this has gone any further than a meeting of which only he is interested and whether anything is going on or not.

 

And then you have to decide what your choices are...personally, I don't think cheaters should be given second chances, at least not right away unless you have truly been horrible to them. Second chances are usually pushing for third chances and such..don't be a doormat! But only you know what you can tolerate and not.

 

Maybe you might choose to work things through and see a counsellor together...I don't know, but you do need to talk to her about it.

[Abacab]

Interesting read... Sorry it happened to you though..

 

Hmmm... where to begin?

 

First of all, snooping is bad, really bad. But I think you acted on a gut feeling which prove you right. Apparently her action(s) prompted you to do this.

 

Secondly, apart from a few men (oh yes, women too), nobody goes out and fools around if everythings OK at home... in the emotional, intellectual, spiritual and physical domains. If there's any problem in any one of those departments, spouses will wander in search of gratification... Which leads me to suggest that you sit down with your wife in a calm manner and try to talk things out. Maybe it outright boredom you two are facing; having been together for over 12 years together. Couples conselling is very much recommended too.

 

In any case, without resorting to the above suggestions, I wouldn't opt for divorce...

 

Good luck to you and keep us posted.... We're here for you.

[elsalvador]

Well..... I do feel "not right" for snooping, but I did have a feeling. She was deleting the history regularly. Also talking on the phone and when I would come around she would hang up quick. Yes we do have our problems, and yes I think we are a little bored. We do go on vacations regularly. Also out to eat once a week, movies. Wait a minute here, we do a lot togther. I do however work a lot. My position requires me to work a great deal of hours. 12 per day and most Saturday mornings and sometimes Sunday. But I do all this for our future.

 

Anyway I think this has been going on for a long time, just meeting is a new thing for her. I am abrade to confront her. I guess you could say im a bit of a pushover. Did I ask for this to happen? You see, many years ago I did cheat as well. Like 8 years ago. I saw what it did and never did again, and never will to anyone. I have changed, especially after getting married. It changed my whole thinking on life in a great way. It made me really appreciate my life and my wife, made me want to the right thing always. If I confront her, she will bring up this past cheating, I know she still does not trust me this way. I don't think she will ever. I am tired of fighting. She is the dominate one and I know this is bad. I used to resist and stand up for myself to her, but just got tired of fighting. Why did I not leave, well I love her. I am a calm guy who is understanding. I try to see thing from the others perspective. So again I ask, did I ask for this to happen. I do love her a great deal. But I am tired of just going along with the flow, not causing any ripples. And now this other guy thing? I am not even sure what I think about it. I am shocked!

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

Despite the fact that you snooped you definitely need to talk to her now. Personally I think that if two people are married that their shouldn't be a need to snoop. Of all my friends who have been married everyone of them is now divorced with the exception of one couple who absolutely hide nothing from each other. They know each other's passwords to their e-mails, they don't mind if it's read, etc, etc. They still do their separate things though but since they're so open and honest with each other though there is no jealously or suspition that breaks up a lot of marriages these days

 

IMHO, the moment people feel the need to hide things from their partners, things are starting to go south. Sure, you snooped, but if she tried to hide things from you and not be honest you wouldn't have had the "feeling" you needed to.

 

I hope this works out for you and that it didn't go to far with the other guy. I do think it's within your rights to ask your wife to not contact this man again, for the sake of your marriage if anything else. Then you'll both need to sit down and try to figure out where things went wrong and try to get things on track.

[elsalvador]

Some history.

 

link removed

[Meow18]

I agree that husbands or wives who cheat, its usually because there are problems at home. However, I don't think it should give them any right to do it. If she had a problem she should have talked to him before going out and finding someone else. I would hope communication would be good in a marriage.

 

I don't know your full story, but I think that you need to tell her what you found. If she's going around finding other guys, she might as well be honest about it with you.

 

You need to decide if you can deal with this. Can you trust her now? I mean, if you do stay together, will you worry that she's talking to a guy every time she goes online, or meeting up with some guy everytime she goes out? I know I probably would.

 

I agree with RayKay on the whole thing about cheating. I don't think there's an excuse for it ever. No one who cheats will ever be able to persuade me that they had a good reason for it, even if there are problems in their relationship. Your supposed to talk to your boyfriend or girlfriend instead of go out and find someone to make out with or have sex with.

 

Anyways, like I said, you found what you found and I think the first thing you need to do is ask her about it. Then talk about things and decide if what she did really deserves another chance.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

OK, I just read the background. You need to talk to your wife now. Not later. Tell her that you know what's going on and ask her why if she was unhappy couldn't she have talked to you first instead of running around your back. You are her husband after all. Man, I'm right there with you. I have to agree with Maggie and RayKay, there is absolutely no good reason to cheat. Take heart that since she didn't bother to tell you she was missing something in your relationship that this is mostly her fault, not hers. She stopped trying, you didn't.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

Oh, and if she brings up the issue that you were snooping then ask her who broke whom's trust first. Don't let her turn this around on you. You're the victim here (unless you're an abusive, control husband), not her.

[RayKay]

Oh, and if she brings up the issue that you were snooping then ask her who broke whom's trust first. Don't let her turn this around on you. You're the victim here (unless you're an abusive, control husband), not her.

 

And I noted you said you had cheated years ago, I don't think it would be fair for her to turn that around on you either, given that 8 years have passed, obviously she told you she would give you another chance and you have learned and not repeated the mistake. Yes, she may very well bring it up but we all know...two wrongs don't make a right, not when one has apparently forgiven the other either.

 

Yes, she may have done it as you had before, but you need to really treat this as a new situation...if that makes sense...8 years is a long time to have passed between that incident, it is not like a week later!

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

I agree, that's why I didn't mention it. That was years ago and if she didn't forgive you, you wouldn't be together now. You've learned your leason, don't let her use that against you.

[hockeyboy]

Well..... I do feel "not right" for snooping,

 

God, dont even begin to feel bad at all. There was post on this last week about how snooping is bad. NO NO NO. You snooped for a reason...because in your heart you knew she was cheating! Dont put youself down at all, nor let anyone else. She is in the wrong here, not you.

[11flower]

Hi Elsavador,

 

You're a good man, and quite human as most men are. You fortunately were strong enough after you made an initial mistake way back when in your relationship with your wife of 2 years/partner of 12 to come back strong with fully good intentions and the strength to maintain it.

 

I have to say that I hear about this situation a lot--where a husband/partner works so much that wife feels neglected and starts seeking needs to be met outside the marriage.

 

I will tell a little of my own story. I wrote about it here on these forums.

 

My husband and I've been married nearly 18 yrs. Pretty good friendship although we've had hellish-trials and still do struggle very discouragingly at times. We're still friends and lovers, trying to work it out. Long road.

 

Husband did not meet all my social and emotional needs, as well as I felt somewhat neglected. Throughout our marriage I was faithful in all aspects. I remained faithful and devoted for years. Yet our relationship and we had changed over the years as most couples individually do over the years. What attracted me in men has changed. As he worked looong hours often, I felt hurt and neglected at times, but still remained faithful emotionally and physically.

 

So out of the blue, last May, I met a man on the internet who approached me initially for business purposes (his own in the industry he's involved in--music). I'd refused, but he kept *pursuing* me and it really turned me on. I began to become infatuated. I felt wrong about it and struggled, but I did tell my husband openly and as honestly as I could about the guy and my budding infatuation. Husband responded kindly and understandingly, allowing me room and autonomy to deal with it. I also did not intend to carry on a relationship, initially.

 

I kept "chatting" with the guy who wanted to keep chatting with me until there were definite budding romantic strong growing feelings for him, and visa versa. I thought I'd fallen in love, and infact, I think I actually had. I was all the while telling my husband because it was not right and violated marital vows. I stayed up nights just crying, praying, struggling, but I could not control my feelings. I made the choice to keep chatting online with him, and eventually a few phonecalls (which didn't amount to much).

 

The man met a need in me and awakened something in me that I knew I needed from my husband and from men in general that I'd not been aware of. This part was cool. I never ended up physically unfaithful, but I'd had my fantasies. I tried to be as honest as I could with husband through the whole thing. Being a very strong and secure person, husband says he knows it was part of my working through struggles. Anyway, through this all, I never actually met the guy in person (God's protection ) ). I have since stopped writing him, but that was difficult to do. As resulting of this experience, I've learned more about myself, my husband as well, marriage, longterm commitments and relationships, as well as human fallibility and weakness, needs and struggles. I realised I love being pursued, and my husband wasn't pursuing me and I felt taken for granted, even though my husband never meant to take me for granted and didn't. We're still together, and working it out.

 

Thanks for reading my story.

 

There's a couple things I want to say. You sound like a great and understanding man, yet are you giving up too easy?

 

Are you being passive because you feel guilty about the mistake you made in the past?

 

Have you forgiven yourself completely for this mistake? Are you in touch with your own needs socially and overall?

 

Have you realised that it took strength for you to overcome the mistake and decide never to do it again so that you are NOT that person any longer?

 

Are you pursuing your wife, meeting her emotional needs how she needs them from you as her husband? If you are and don't know what it is that's wrong, could you consider going to talk to someone professional who could help you two work through it?

 

No one man or woman can meet one another's needs. It takes other healthy friendships outside the marriage to do this. So neither of you has to be superpeople. I think you need to ask your wife to be honest with you about what she needs from you. Find out what *she* wants for your future together too. She may have sort of wanted you to find that letter from the guy.

 

BTW, the guy who wrote her, well, you can hear the lack of depth and noncommittment in his writing. He could probably care LESS about her.

 

I don't know if my story was too long or even helped, but I said it to say that letting your wife talk about it, asking her about it non-accusingly, and expressing your desires for what you want with her may turn things around, as long as you both are willing to change. Only you would know these answers for sure. I say try to talk her into getting to a counsellor.

 

ONe step at a time.

 

My thoughts,

11flower[/i]

[PrincessLinzay]

Wow, well that certainly is a lot to take in. I can understand your confusion about how to proceed.

 

I'll start by telling you the same thing I tell everyone who is feeling guilty and remorseful for snooping. What's done is done.

 

You can't go back and change it, and unfortunately, you found something which justified your fears and suspicions. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but that is for the peope who ignore those nagging feelings.

 

First and foremost, I will address this issue of "payback" cheating. In no circumstances should she be able to justify her cheating with the fact that " hey! You did it!". That's childish.

 

In relationships that have suffered from infidelity, the person who was cheated on has two options. Forgiveness, or leaving. If they choose the former, forgiveness is not conditional. Constantly throwing it back in the other person's face isn't going to rectify the mistakes which were already made. It doesn't give them a "get out of cheating free" card.

 

Nothing that you did caused her to cheat. You didn't drive her to this. People are responsible for their own decisions. It's easy to make a scapegoat of your partner, but what it comes down to is you and your own self-control.

 

I can understand your passiveness. It stems from a reluctance to engage in confrontation. When someone is really aggressive, sometimes it can feel easier to just give in. In this, however, I would suggest taking a stand. This is something that could ultimately damage you very badly. Not just your self-esteem would suffer.

 

I guess my question would be....Do you want to salvage your marriage? Or would you prefer to walk away?

[mt_joy]

I would be so devestated if I found something like that. It's very obvious that she is cheating. If it were me, I would find out the next time they planned to meet and "happen" to show up and catch them. Of course, wait until they start kissing so she can't say, "Oh, he's just a friend." But, you may just want to confront her in private. Do what feels right for you. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[11flower]

OT: Princess L, you certainly sound much more "lived" than 21 years old. That's not only very good advice, IMO, it's sound wisdom; really sounds much older than that.

 

Anyway....

 

I agree that it's childishness and escaping for his wife to throw it back.

 

I really think there are deeper needs on her part and that they should both look at their individual needs and what they want.

I mean, what were all the little things that lead it to come to this in the first place?

 

The issue of El's past mistake is absolutely or should be absolutely no issue.

 

They have a tangle to untwine, but they can do it with help and willingness to do it.

 

Elsalvador, I'm keepin' ya' in prayers.

 

11Flower

[OceanEyes]

I'm probably going to meet some resistance for saying this, but cheating is one thing that I just don't see the point in trying to work through. If I stayed with a guy who messed around on me and played me for a fool, I'd feel like I was settling for a relationship that I could never be comfortable in again. I believe that once someone has violated your trust, that it might come back on some levels, but never as it was originally. Not worth it.

 

How can you really work through something like this? I don't get it. It's not really the idea that he cheated on me, but more that he actually lied for a long time to cover it up, was sneaky about it, and obviously didn't consider me in the whole process. If anyone can explain how it's possible to regain absolute trust and respect for someone who damages you in this way, I'd love to hear it. After all, when someone is trying to convince you how sorry they are, and no matter how much they talk, how do you believe it? Because "they've changed" and see the error of their ways? I'm sure this can and does happen, but usually only if they cheater is not actually caught, and decides to come clean on his/ her own. Only when the cheater actually admits what they've done on THEIR OWN, taken responsibility (no matter HOW negative the consequences), and do what it takes to make things better do I see a positive absolution. Otherwise, trying to mend things in situations like this seems completely useless to me.

[11flower]

See Gettingoverit's posts as to his example. He was slightly scolded, you might say, for having told his wife the truth about a choice he made. He wants to mend it with his wife and because he has absolutely no desire to have it any other way, wants nothing to come between he and his wife.

 

Here is a man who truly wants to rebuild trust and live his life honestly with his wife, with no inability for intimacy.

 

I can agree with you once someone has had physical relationship with someone other than their spouse. This is the ultimate breaking of the agreement, and once it's done, it's done. And it begins with thoughts and feelings and choices thereafter.

 

It will ultimately be up to each of these individuals and we can't just generalise in Elsalvador's case with his wife, as we just don't have the whole picture about their hearts and intentions.

 

He has admitted what happened, he hasn't done this again. His wife is seemingly playing around, who knows why? To get attention she may desperately need? If these two are willing to try, they should be given hope that it can work out. They should at least try no matter their pasts or present problems or behaviours. They should look into the hope if this is what they want.

 

11Flower

[elsalvador]

Well..... This is really making take a step back and ask why of myself? I would like to be brutally honest here. About the whole picture. You see this whole thing I think, actually makes me happy? You see I am not happy with my marriage, never really have been.

 

Happy to be married, but not to my wife. She is very controlling, angry person. I could not EVER see myself with kids with her. But I want kids. Also she is very caring, kind at times. Me, on the other hand, it's been so long living like this, I have been. Just going along with her attitude. I first thought well, just go along with her, everyone has Issues.

 

So I gave in to her in all the disagreements. I became passive. But this back fired on me. I do not want this type of personality for my self. I am not a passive guy in other areas of my life. So this conflict with myself made me become depressed with my relationship with my wife. I withdrew intimately with her. I don't like to admit it, even here where no one knows who I am, But I want to be honest with all you guys, Me and the wife have been intimate 1 time in the last year. I am just so turned off. My mind races thinking when will be the next time I will give in to her. I just have no interest being intimate with her. I now this hurts her and me, it is not right. But I guess this is my Secrete little way of getting back at her. It's very childish I know. I think I should leave, it would be better for the both of us, but I love her good qualities, she looks after me. But just too many bad qualities for me to settle with.

 

So what will I do, I don't know, keep playing these games or leave? She does try to ask me what's wrong, why we don't "do it", but I ignore the question, I don't want to fight. I have a bad feeling I will continue this for years to come. This is why all her online stuff is kind of making me happy; it will push me to do something I knew I should have done in the firs place. This make me feel guilty. Man what a crapy feeling.

 

I hope this gives some of the whole picture here. Hope someone can give some advice to me because I obviously don't know how to deal with me feelings. I am 29 years old, but I feel like im only 16 with what I do. I grew up with no father, my mother always said to respect the ladies. I think this is my problem, I let the ladies run me, ……….what ever the ladies say must be correct, other wise im not respecting them??

I do not want to go see anyone with this because in my heart I no what I should do, problem is just doing it?

 

Thanks everyone.

 

 

Because of my attitude, I must have made her do this!

[elsalvador]

One more thing. We do not go out with anyone else. All my friends have been isolated. They are intimidated by her. They have always stood by me, but always wondered why I stay. She has no outside friends. Its always me and her. I think this is a huge problem. I like going out with my friend. But she will never come with. But she sure makes me fell guilty for me going out with my friends.

[11flower]

I don't know why I got the idea you are 25 yrs old.

 

Anyway, these stories are confusing. You made the point that you don't know what to do since you found a letter to your wife from some guy. It sounded you felt very betrayed, and you miss being intimate.

 

I could be wrong in thinking that you started out telling us one thing, and now are telling us a whole new thing. But what have you been telling us? Are you telling us that you never actually intended to repair whatever it is with your wife and now you are happy with the possibility of leaving, as well as the lack of intimacy you now have?

 

It seems to me your story changed from one thing to another. Now you've given a whole different perspective and people have taken time to answer you. I have a feeling you may know what you're going to do afterall.

 

I'm confused now; what is it you are actually wanting and asking here?

 

11Flower

[elsalvador]

Fact is, I love her. I want to be with her. But there are things about her that drive me crazy. I do not want to leave her. My intentions here is to find out is if others feel the same at times. ie: have bad thoughts about there relationship. Do others have points in there life that they just dont want to continue? Is it suppost to be perfect all the time. I love her, but also have bad thoughts from time to time. If I have bad thoughts, does this mean I should leave. I just think everyone has these thoughts from time to time. The reason for the long story is to try and make things clear. I would like to talk to my wife about this, but it will just turn into me being a prick. Writing here helps me to think things out. I mean no disrespect for the people here, Im just tyring to be very honest.

 

I am hurt to find out about this other guy. Im just scared to say anything to her negative about how I feel to her. What makes my "happy" is this will force me to. Im nat happy about it. Just happy that I will not be able to keep quite.

[OceanEyes]

Im just scared to say anything to her negative about how I feel to her. What makes my "happy" is this will force me to.

 

I don't really get how you can expect to be happy with someone, if you are never open about what makes you happy/ unhappy. This woman will never make you happy if she doesn't even know what she's doing wrong in the first place. I can understand that you were raised a certain way, to be more 'passive', but I can promise you that no woman you ever meet will be perfect. You will always need to communicate to understand her, and vice versa.

 

At this point I'm having a really hard time understanding what you want. On one hand, you say that you're turned off by her sexually (NOT good), but that you love her. And, you also say that there are too many negative/ irritating qualities that are driving you nuts, but that you want to be with her?

 

Bad thoughts are 'O-K' to have, but not all the time. Sometimes it's normal to go through stages of a relationship that leave you feeling uncertain and unhappy. But they usually don't take an entire YEAR to pass and result in a total lack of a sex life. I, personally don't feel that what you're going through is normal. You seem very irritated by her and are almost disgusted by her sexually. If the two of you can't find some way to really open up to each other and learn to be more honest before things get so bad, there might be something to salvage here. Otherwise, it seems like things have gone too far.