What to make of this?

[mindu]

Okay. Long read, sorry.

Almost 3 years ago I met a wonderful guy. I liked him right away, and he felt the same way aboyt me it seemed.

We started dating, sex included (which I have no regrets about, if I´m going to date someone, I want to find out if we are compatible sexually too). After 3 months or so I asked "are we seing other people too, or...??". He reacted almost aggressively and blurted out, that if I was seing other people too me and him were done. But after a few months I began to get really hurt, that he always referred to me as his friend, when talking on the phone to people, who hadn´t met me.

 

I have previously been used just for sex and let myself get treated like basically. I can´t do FWB, it seems pointless to me to keep sexing someone, if it´s not going anywhere. Then I´d rather just move on.

I tryed telling him this, but it was very hard for me to be so open emotionally, especially when he had me so confused.

He said, that he wasn´t ready for a relationship (wth?!?!), but that we were working towards one.

 

This situation went on and on for about 6 months - I got introduced to some of his friends (by just my name ofcours ),and when we all hung out he showed affection and made me feel like, I was "his" girl. Still he called me a friend to the ones, who didn´t know me. He said, that some of these people were not in his circle really and he didn´t want them to know his business. Seriously?! Who gives a ?!

We had many talks about everything, because I felt so insecure, which sometimes let to some nasty situations, that would have never happened, if I had felt certain, that he wanted to be with me. He wanted me to open up a kot, but I couldn´t, knowing he didn´t want a relationship.

When I asked, why he didn´t feel ready, he said, because he could get really jealous and he didn´t like that about himself, and that if we were to be a couple, he would treat me "like his wife". ???????????????????

 

After dating for 9 months, I screwed up one time while drunk. I didn´t do anything other than hug a guy, but as circumstances would have it, the guy I was dating walked by right in that moment - seing me with a guy, that had his arms around me (this other guy, was really drunk too, and he would have def. tried to kiss me, if I hadn´t kept a distance with my arm. This is where I screwed up, I should have never been like that with him). He walked right passed us and texted me to delete his number. I was like ??? And called him right away. He said, that I had just told him 30 minutes earlier, that I was at home. THIS is what does not make sense to me at all. I was really drunk and can´t remember. I know I talked to him on the phone 30 minutes earlier, but I can not remember saying, I was at home. And why would I?!?

Well, the way it all looked to him: I lied about my whereabouts and was hooking up with another guy. So we stopped seing each other.

... Onle he was confused himself and didn´t know, what he wanted, and I didn´t understand, it was over - refused to because the whole inciddent was so stupid in my head - so I kept in contact, making plans to meet up with him, which rarely happened. He was extremely hurt and angry with me, made plans, didn´t bother to cancel them, told me he couldn´t give me what I wanted from him.

 

I kept trying to fix the situation, my heart was so in it, and I couldn´t believe, that THIS is what should part us. I told him, it was hard to let go, when I had been in love with him, to which his respond was, he didn´t know. I felt like WHAT? I´ve told you over and over how difficult it was for me to be with someone, who calls me a friend, but still I stayed! Because I wanted to be with him, because I believed him, when he said, we were working towwards being in a relationship. ....... Ofcours I didn´t tell him this, too afraid and angry and hurt and pissed. I just said, I thought he knew. He said, maybe, but that it would have been nice to know.

On 2 occassions we also hooked up again, which I thought meant: hey, he still have feelings for me. When I asked him about it, he said we were just friends. So basically EVERYTHING we had struggled with together in those 9 months, trust issues, was ruined at this point. He treated me like , knowing "just hooking up" is the absolute worst for me, getting used like that.

So after a year and a half of this bull, him being all over the place, me trying to figure out, what the hell was going on and unable to let go, I finally did and cut contact for 3 months. I thought it would make me feel better, and it sort of did, but I still felt like, I had made some mistakes, and I still thought about him all the time, missing him like crazy. At the same time I got almost scared of what to do, if I ever ran into him again. Would we then acknowledge one another? Start saying mean ? What?

 

I decided to contact him again, to at least burry the hatchet. In the meantime I found out some stuff about myself and started seing a shrink. I had fallen into depression, and every day went on with me hoping to get hit by a car, so my life and the constant agony and struggle would be over (this was also do to my job, carreer, future, economy etc., not just him). He accepted me proposal to talk, and nervous as hell I tryed to tell him, what had been going on inside of me, that something about all this just didn´t feel right. I also told him what exactly happened with the guy, who had his arms around me, since I never did before. Basically: I know a lot of has happened, and some of it was my fault, and I´m sorry.

 

He asked me, if we should try and be friends. REAL friends this time. Not like the past year and a half. I took some time to think about it, as I still had feelings towards him and wasn´t sure, if I´d be able to handle, when he met another girl for instance, if I could truly be his friend. But I agreed to give it a try.

And now we have been friends for almost 5 months. Nothing has happened between us, although sometimes there are some *moments* there. For me the friendship was about rebulding the initial trust between us: that he wasn´t using me for sex. That he genuinly liked me as a person. And I have been very happy with my descision, even though it have been very very hard sometimes too.

We are never at one of our places. He said, that he was worried something would might happen. I didn´t know, he felt like that, and told him "if you don´t want to be alone like that with me, that´s fine, but you should know: I´m not gonna jump you. I know you don´t have feelings towards me, and I don´t want to just hook up. The last times we did that, I only did it, because I thought it meant something to you, but clearly it didn´t".

This seemed to take some pressure off the situation - he feels like he´s more at ease with me, and I have - almost - stopped thinking about wanting him back, trying to impress him and do and say the right things. I didn´t go into the friendship TRYING to get him back, but I wouldn´t have mind, if it happened

Neither of us are dating anyone else.

Last time I saw him, he said he focused too much on peoples flaws. I said "listen, you´ll meet someone, where it wont matter", but he cut me off and said, no, he focusses on it too much. That made me feel a little better I gotta admit, ´cause I have felt like a champion up for so long now.

 

Now the thing is...... I don´t know, where do we go from here?

I can tell, I still feel wronged that he never understood and understands, how his actions affect other people. And I still think about, how I could say this to him, to make him really understand. Make him see how difficult it was for me to be in the situation with him, where he constantly pushed me away with "not ready for a relationship", but at the same time got hurt that I didn´t open up to him. Me and him are too much alike in this aread I think, we want the other one to make us feel secure first. I wanted the title of a girlfriend, and THEN I would have opened up and showed him who I really am and how much I cared.

Is this an impossible task to try and make him understand?

 

And what does any of you guys make of this long long story? Why do you guys think, he wanted us to be friends? I have wondered a lot about that myself. He needed some healing too?

When he suggested the friendship to begin with, he made a big point out of saying "´cause we don´t work well as a couple", said it many times, and then all of a sudden threw in a "right now anyways". I mean, come on!!!

........... I feel weird about the whole thing now, because I know and remember what is was like, when we were closer, not just physically. And I miss that bond. Still I don´t think it will ever come back, I just don´t see him being up for it And I can go without, but .........

 

Well, ANY words on this are welcomed. I just needed to get it all out I think

[bulletproof]

Clearly you want more than friendship, and you're waiting around for it, just like you did for the three years. I'd say cut off the friendship, so you can get over him and date someone who really wants to be with you.

[mhowe]

You are trying to mold him into someone acceptable to you. Agree with above...you haven't let go of the.past and are clearly hoping this transitions into a relationship again. So you are being a bit disingenuous.

[mindu]

Yeah.... That´s wht I´m thinking too myself. I swear, I didn´t go into the friendship to get him back. Sincerely. And I can see now, that there are a lot of things that would have to change for me, for wanting to be with him again. But I don´t know, do I tell him this, or just slowly disappear or?

 

I haven´t fell like, there was any chance at getting him back for a long time, so I have already given up on this idea.... But apparently that doesn´t change, how I feel: I would rather have the close connection than friends.

But I can never figure him out in any sort of way... Even in this friendship I have found myselfto be a little confused, when there have reasently been distance - I thought "okay, is this him fading our friendship out because there is no tension anymore", but I´m just not sure. And then when talking to him, he say´s he´s stressed out. And this I find out, AFTER I have blabbered on about this and that for 15 minutes. THAT´S when I realized, I miss being someone he trusts and tells things, that intimacy....

[mhowe]

And that is why you cannot downgrade from intimate relationship to just friends.

[mindu]

I want to add too: I have a very difficult time expressing my emotions. Something this guy always told me and wanted me to do, so that´s also a reason for the friendship: to learn to say how I feel and not feel humiliated or ashamed.....

 

I have never ever made a wise desicion in the love department, and I haven´t felt ready for trying anything else with all this mess still going on - unresolved feelings and the accusation of me cheating. I´m not a natural at this stuff - always chase the ones I can´t get, and then when they want me I run away, because I´m too scared. So basically now I´m working on not being afraid: of rejection but also of love. This whole process with him have kindof changed my life, made me realize some things about myself, the good and the bad.

[mindu]

Yeah. I mean, we could for a while there, but by then there was a ot of other things in focus too.. Now it´s just sort of unsatisfying.

 

From writing here, I can tell, I think I want to speak up about things. Not just fade out. I always fade out, disappear, don´t talk about it. It´s a major weakness in me, because it also means I can´t express love and happiness, unless I´m 100% secure. And who can ever make me feel like that? Without me giving anything in return....

[Edmund Exley]

Have you ever considered talking to a counselor to address your inability to express feelings of intimacy to a partner?

[mindu]

I am doing so right now

 

Started 6-7 months ago.

[mindu]

Does anybody have any insight in as to why HE wanted to be friends agai? Clearly this time without any sort of sexual anything. And for the year and a half there was only anything sexual going on two times.

 

I don´t understand, how he differentiates between things.

In this friendship of ours, he has asked me, what I like the most about my own body, what I like the most about his. I mean, that´s not something I do with my guy friends.

I answered with just "my shape" and "you have great hands", to keep it non sexual, and I said to him, that we wouldn´t be able to talk like this, when he meets another girl. Sort of like: hint hint, this is not normal friend talk. To me at least.

 

Obviously he is very attracted to me physically still, it was his own actions he was afraid of, if we were to be alone again. .... Maybe he just needs to grow up in this department?

[mhowe]

Who knows. He doesn't sound very experienced in the dating department.

[mindu]

Well I was hoping somebody here would know

 

Maybe he needed some sort of emotional rightdoing after all the bull between us too... Just like me...!?

 

He is more experienced than me. I have never been in a serious relationship, despite the fact that I´m 29. Like I said: not ONE smart decision in love - ever!

But he said last time I saw him, that I was the one, who has stayed with him the longest, that meaning the 9 months we dated. That´s good, but at the same time bad, because: why the hell could he be in relationships with these other girls so quickly, but just not me?! Like: what is it about me?!?!

 

Some months ago he told me, he never made us official, because he didn´t feel safe with me. We would always go one forward, but then two back. He kept telling me when dating, that he didn´t know how to read me. I feel like he never gave me the chance to trust him to express myself. Ironic huh?! These are some of the things, I still feel like telling him. Some way of sorting all the hurt out at least, even though we are not right for each other.

[mhowe]

I think if you want the friendship to continue you have to stop trying to excavate the relationship.

Sometimes people just don't mesh on that level.

 

And for him to say he didnt feel safe with you is HUGE.

[Edmund Exley]

Unfortunately, no one here can speak for what he motives are. Only he can. Ask him if you really want to know.

[bulletproof]

Some months ago he told me, he never made us official, because he didn´t feel safe with me. We would always go one forward, but then two back. He kept telling me when dating, that he didn´t know how to read me. I feel like he never gave me the chance to trust him to express myself. Ironic huh?! These are some of the things, I still feel like telling him. Some way of sorting all the hurt out at least, even though we are not right for each other.

 

Clearly I can't speak for the man, but I think he's a little bit full of it. I think he's putting the onus on you because he doesn't have the cajones to tell you that he just doesn't feel romantically toward you. And I think that's because he feels guilty on some level for using you for sex for so long.

 

Also, regarding you hugging another guy... In my opinion, your friend completely overreacted and it sounds like he was just looking for a reason to end it.

I think you should cut the friendship off by simply saying that you want more than friendship and that the current state of affairs is too much for you emotionally. Then go complete no contact.

[mindu]

I understand your reasoning Bulletproof, but he wasn´t using me for sex. If he was, there would be no reason to go through all this. He´s been sad too. He did feel SOMETHING towards me at some point, but obviously not what I felt for him. I am going to say something to him, if I get the chance. The only problem I have with your idea, is that it comes like playing games a little bit - go complete no contact - and hope for him to contact me again. If I get the chance to tell him this stuff, ofcours I would not want to call and text him again, but it has to feel natural, I have to FEEL, what I´m doing, otherwise it´s just gonna be another move to try anf make things happen....

[mindu]

I think if you want the friendship to continue you have to stop trying to excavate the relationship.

Sometimes people just don't mesh on that level.

 

And for him to say he didnt feel safe with you is HUGE.

 

Yes it is, but I wish he had told me this wen we were dating, not two years after. I can´t do anything about it now. I do have to move on though.....

[mindu]

Unfortunately, no one here can speak for what he motives are. Only he can. Ask him if you really want to know.

 

I will If I get the chance.

[Cadence44]

Mindu, I don't have advice on your current situation, but also being sex-positive and being a bit older than you, here's what I've learned:

 

If sex makes you attached to someone, it's okay to acknowledge that to yourself. We women get bombarded with the message that we need to try to be the "cool girl", who can have sex and not get attached. But there are some biological processes happening, like bonding hormones, that happen during and after sex that make us attached. It's okay to have that trait. I have it, and have messed up in the past where I tried to have sex and be detached, and it didn't work out well for me.

 

If you are like me, then make sure you're exclusive with one another before the sex happens. "Steve, I really want to do this with you. But I'd only feel comfortable if I knew that neither of us is intending to be with other people. I'm okay with that. Are you?"

 

That way you don't end up angry three months down the line trying to figure out "what you are." Better to have a pro-active conversation where you state your needs, and he has the option to agree or not agree. (I would not wait until things got too hot and heavy to have the conversation, because then he may feel manipulated. Just when you feel things are headed toward sex is when you bring it up.)

[mindu]

Thanks Cadence

 

But we were exclusive We were not dating any other people, with this I trust him. It´s not like he played me, he was honest about how he felt. Like I was honest with him, that I would like the title of a girlfriend. But I never got it. Not until after he thought I kissed another guy, did he hook up with me twice and called it "friends" afterwards. And that messed up a lot of things for me......

 

I don´t regret having ex with him, and I don´t regret doing it before we had an "what are we" talk... I don´t know, it´s just my style I guess I didn´t want to be really really into him, and then the sex could be terrible. These things happen...

 

But thanks for the advice I know I get attached from sex, at least from having regular sex with the same person. And I´m not at all ashamed to say it, to me it´s the only logical way to go about things. Unfortuanetely other people don´t always see it the same way as me/us.

 

I really really like this guy, as a friend too. We are kinda getting to know each other anew now, and I´m much more comfortable now, which I hadproblems with when dating him. The longer we dated and he didn´t want a relationship, the more insecure I got and tryed to be, wht he wanted. Foolish, idiotic, I know. And I know he genuinly likes me as a person too. And he is physically attracted to me too, as I am with him. But those special feelings are just not there. I don´t think he ever felt quite the same about me, and now he ofcours is totally over whatever feelings he did have at some point.

 

I´m trying to learn what I can from this..... But sometimes I really really REALLY wish we didn´t fal in love. It´s such bull.

[bulletproof]

The only problem I have with your idea, is that it comes like playing games a little bit - go complete no contact - and hope for him to contact me again. If I get the chance to tell him this stuff, ofcours I would not want to call and text him again, but it has to feel natural, I have to FEEL, what I´m doing, otherwise it´s just gonna be another move to try anf make things happen....

 

You don't stop contact with someone so that he/she will contact you again. You stop contact because remaining in contact is hurting you emotionally in the long run.

Operating under the premise that you have to "feel" what you're doing is probably not the best idea. Intuition has its place, but so does logic. And I think you are using intuition as an excuse for being too scared to let him go.

[mindu]

I don´t know why, I can´t let him go. It´s the third time of my 29 year old life, I haven´t been able to let go of a situation. All 3 times, it has been in a situation where I get turned down somehow, but only after giving it a try.

 

I just cancelled some plans with this guy, because I felt it would be fake to show up and act all chill and friendly, when I feel different on the inside. He replied okay and good thing I told him, and talk to me in a while, which I interpreted as: when I´m over it. I thought to myself: I´ll never be over it! I´ll never stop searching for your validation and recognision, EVEN THOUGH I know in my mind, that I wont ever get it. My heart doesn´t stop and this I can´t control.

So I actually started to write my thoughts down in an early attempt to write him a text explaining I wont ever be able to chase his validation in the ultimate way: his love. I just can´t. And I started writing why - because I feel like, he never really gave me a chance, and because this and that, but everything I wrote, I knew I was sort of wrong.

He didn´t play me. He just needed a LOT of emotional validation from me - something I wasn´t ready to give, certainly not at that point, and maybe never. Maybe we´re just too different and alike at the same time. I wanted the official title and THEN open up. He wanted me to open up and THEN give me the title. None of us caved, although we did come closer.

I started really really digging deep into WHY I can´t let go, even though it hurts me. What is it, that´s going on inside of me. Today, with my therapist. She took me some places mentally, that I´ve disgarded for most of my life: a possible new way to look at things. It´s very interesting. And allthough I haven´t any answer, I feel a little bit better somehow, like I´m maybe on the road to something.......

 

It´s obvious now, that I don´t share myself, because I´m afraid of precisely not being able to let go. I haven´t thought about it in these terms before... I just thought: I´m afraid to get hurt. So I told this guy too. He worked on trust with me but still keeping his own "opinion" = not giving me a title, before I too proved myself to him. But I didn´t. I couldn´t. He was actually absolutely right about us not working out together. Not back then. I didn´t feel like myself too, but I was too focused on getting the title and being strong as in not showing my true colors but just stick it out until the pain was over.. .I see that now ..... But still I can´t help but think about: what about now then? So I´m still not letting go, but I think I´m at least on the way to let go of some of the old stuff. Maybe I will really never be able to look for his appreciation of me, and I´ll end up hating him. Like I did with the others. And this is not healthy either. I´m trying to make this not be just as bad as the others, so that next time I go wrong in love, I wont hold onto it forever.