The "Nice Guy" or The "Jerk", interesting article.

[Jean-Luc]

One of this things I find interesting is, as pointed out in the article, this is one of the very first studies on regarding the "Alpha" vs "Beta" male. And the conclusion is that neither are what women want.

 

Personally I hate both terms and think they should be wiped from existence. Both terms are completely nonsense.

[Moontiger]

I read a few lines, but it was so ridiculous that I couldn't get any further. It's just typical shaming and rationalizing.

 

I'm always surprised to see that women support promoting traditional, restrictive gender roles...as long as it's aimed towards men. I'm the least alpha, meekest guy you'll ever meet, and I don't want to change, because I'm fine with being me.

 

Why not try reading the whole thing or looking up the study before responding then. You really have nothing to contribute if you don't know what is being discussed. If you do choose to actually read everything and draw the same conclusion then I will be willing to engage in a discussion.

 

EDIT: I'm sure you didn't get this far but I found this part very interesting:

 

"accross three studies, Lauri Jensen-Campbell and colleagues found that it wasn’t dominance alone, but rather the interaction of dominance and pro-social behaviors, that women reported were particularly sexually attractive. In other words, dominance only increased sexual attraction when the person was already high in agreeableness and altruism."

[Moontiger]

Personally I hate both terms and think they should be wiped from existence. Both terms are completely nonsense.

 

That is pretty much what this study concludes.

[Firiel]

I read a few lines, but it was so ridiculous that I couldn't get any further. It's just typical shaming and rationalizing.

 

I'm always surprised to see that women support promoting traditional, restrictive gender roles...as long as it's aimed towards men. I'm the least alpha, meekest guy you'll ever meet, and I don't want to change, because I'm fine with being me.

 

How is it promoting traditional, restrictive gender roles?

 

I've heard from men that they like the idea of a confident, easy-going, sensitive woman as a partner which is what the study found were the qualities women tended to want in men.

 

ETA: Sometimes, The Art of Manliness really makes me roll my eyes because it DOES often reinforce the patriarchy through benevolent sexism. But in this particular article, I don't really see that.

[Moontiger]

How is it promoting traditional, restrictive gender roles?

 

I've heard from men that they like the idea of a confident, easy-going, sensitive woman as a partner which is what the study found were the qualities women tended to want in men.

 

ETA: Sometimes, The Art of Manliness really makes me roll my eyes because it DOES often reinforce the patriarchy through benevolent sexism. But in this particular article, I don't really see that.

 

I had never heard of this site before looking up this article. I'll have to explore it a little and see what its all about.

[IAmFCA]

I am indeed comfortable, but women (and society as a whole) don't like my "skin", so to speak. They think that men like me should either shut up or change into something they approve of.

 

Blue, be careful pre-judging. I get that you interpret your life experience as telling you that the above statement is true. I am equally confident that many of us do not wish you to change at all, maybe even most. What interest is it to anyone else who you choose to be? We might agree, disagree, build on or destruct each other's points of view, and at the same time we also can accept the other person as who they are, with no need to be any different.

 

I like to think I do this in my own life, and choose my friends and romantic partners accordingly: in terms of who they are today and whether they are a good fit for me.

[IAmFCA]

"Their results also suggest that sensitivity and assertiveness are not opposites."

 

This is a KEY point, and is applicable to effectiveness in everyday life. Being assertive is neither nice nor mean, it is simply factual and direct. Being sensitive allows us to be assertive in a way that is respectful to our audience. This is ESSENTIAL in business, and helpful in friendships, in vendor relationships, etc.

 

In dating, I am complimented when man says "I want to get to know you better." I am less complimented when he says "So what are you doing this weekend?" The first is clear, direct, and sensitive to my self-respect. The second is indirect; it shows interest in my life without exposing his interest in me specifically.

 

This example happened to me, and the difference in assertiveness was impactful. I was crushing on a man for months, maybe longer. He asked me once "What are you doing this weekend?" I said, truthfully, "I am going to the beach." It never occurred to me he was fishing to ask me out. He thought I was disinterested.

 

We started going out a year later, when he simply asked me for a date -- when he was direct, I understood his meaning.

[Blue Spiral]

What interest is it to anyone else who you choose to be?

 

Because if I don't play the game, some woman somewhere is missing out, mathematically speaking. The "husband candidate" pool shrinks just a tiny bit.

 

I've had a whole bunch of women express "concern" about my love-life, in the sense that they think I should "settle down." No, they aren't trying to sleep with me, they just want to make me available as an "option" for their less-attractive friends and family. "Wow, you live in this nice place, you never take trips, you save all your money...you need a woman to help you spend that!" They've said that to me jokingly, but I have to say, I've been amazed at how women can support the cause of Women as a Whole. Your gender has a much better sense of cooperation than mine. We're eager to betray each other to get sex; you're encouraging beta guys to get "back in the game" and helping women you may never even meet. Evolution is a marvel, truly.

 

tl;dr: "nice guy" shaming is just another way of herding menfolk back into the meat-grinder.

[IAmFCA]

I hear you, Blue. I wouldn't have said that stuff; if I recall, there was a time when you were socializing with women who interested in material gain through their men, maybe that helps explain it. Silly people say all sorts of silly things; its just their way of saying "I am too narrow minded to understand you."

 

In any event, the article doesn't shame nice guys. Instead, the article says, in sum: women are attracted to men who say/go for what they want, respectfully. In my experience, that is true for both genders, and is an important life skill regardless of whether the other gender finds it attractive.

[Moontiger]

I hear you, Blue. I wouldn't have said that stuff; if I recall, there was a time when you were socializing with women who interested in material gain through their men, maybe that helps explain it. Silly people say all sorts of silly things; its just their way of saying "I am too narrow minded to understand you."

 

In any event, the article doesn't shame nice guys. Instead, the article says, in sum: women are attracted to men who say/go for what they want, respectfully. In my experience, that is true for both genders, and is an important life skill regardless of whether the other gender finds it attractive.

 

I really hope they do a reverse study, you know looking at what men want. I think the results will come out pretty much the same as what women want.

[Blue Spiral]

I hear you, Blue. I wouldn't have said that stuff; if I recall, there was a time when you were socializing with women who interested in material gain through their men, maybe that helps explain it.

 

I...don't recall that? I mean, the vast majority of women I've known have judged me based on my ability to be a provider, so maybe that's what you're talking about.

 

In any event, the article doesn't shame nice guys. Instead, the article says, in sum: women are attracted to men who say/go for what they want, respectfully.

 

I'm sure that's true...as long as the men are physically attractive and/or successful/"ambitious". I've gone for what I wanted my whole life, but women aren't beating down my door, because what I want isn't what they want.