being a Christian

[ShySoul]

Wouldn't it depend on what your definiton of God is? I don't necessarily believe in the same image of God that most people have but I still believe in being a good person and have a relationship with God. I don't see God as some higher power in heaven that we have to get to. God is the essense of what is good and what is right. I was taught that the spirit of God is in all of us. So couldn't you say that we are communicating with God when we interect with others? And if I am a good person then I should be able to go to heaven. God would not be petty enough to turn you away if you've dedicated your live to helping others and doing what is right. That is the essense of what God and Jesus is all about.

[thisisnotanexit]

ok, it's like you keep insisting that christians don't like to do good deeds. it's like you're trying to say that it is not part of christianity to care about people and make this life count. that's kinda what the religion is all about. love. according to the bible, god is love. "accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God." romans 15:7 the christian view of god is a loving God. our creator who loves us. he wants us to do good and make this life count..but he also offers eternal salvation in heaven. he's saying, make this life count, do not be afraid of death..we have heaven to look forward to. i, too, believe that the holy spirit is within each of us if we accept and believe that. maybe you should look more into christianity..it may appeal to you more than you think? take care

[ShySoul]

Not at all what i was trying to say and I'm sorry if it came off like that or if you were offended. I believe in exactly what you said about the basic idea of religion being love and caring about people. I went to a catholic school for K-8 and have spent my college years at a Jesuit university whose motto is "educating hearts and minds to make a difference." I know what Christianity is supposed to be about and believe the same things. I've just encountered too many people trying to make out that they are being Christian when in fact they are doing the opposite of what they a real Christian would do. Those kinds of hypocrites make me leery of people who claim to be acting in God's name. Most Christians are good people who do good deeds. But I'd rather like at indivuals behavior than make any judgments about such a large and diverse group.

 

I also have seen people too focused on details and specific acts, like praying or going to church. They miss out on the larger picture of what religion is all about. It's like they get so caught up on there way of thinking and there beliefs being right that they don't stop to consider others people beliefs. If you read through my posts you'll find that I've agreed with you on the basic core elements of Christianity: love, caring for and helping your fellow man, building a peaceful and just world, etc. These things aren't just the heart of Christianity, they are the heart of most religions. I choose to not put a label on myself by saying I'm Christian. Instead I'd prefer to say I'm human and I'm working for the best future humanity can have. Not everyone is Christian, or Muslim, or Jew, or Hindu, or any other religion. But everyone is human. I focus on what unites us all, are life as humans today. I'll deal with death when I get there, for now I want to focus on life. Why focus so much on something that is hopefully far away when there is the here and now to be concerned about? Why selfishly think about my eternal salvation in heaven when I can place the needs of others first and ensure that the future generations on earth don't have to endure the same prejudges and sorrows that exist today? I'm doing my actions for no other reason than it is the right thing to do, without giving a thought to any possible reward. In my book that makes the action purer.

 

I've been trying to get people to think for themselves and form there own opinions. I've seen plenty of websites or newsletters that have only been advertisements trying to convert people to Christianity or other religions. But people need to make up there own minds, not just rely own a website. By presenting an alternative viewpoint, people have gotten different perspectives and can chose which one is right for them. In the end it doesn't matter who they agree with because the same basic message is there: life a good, honorable life by loving and helping others.

[Cynder]

Yes you can be religious but not be a Christian, but in the real question is do you have a relationship with God? You don't have be religious to have that, but you can't be a Christian without it. Its like saying, I am a going to heaven because I am a good person. Well, thats not true, the only way to God is through Jesus.

 

I could go on and on and on... I guess my question to you would be, "Why would a God that is so good and loving condemn a good person to hell becuase they are not a Christian?"

 

I don't believe in one RIGHT religion.

Since I am not as good with words as I would like to be, here is a link that explains how I feel, please don't be afraid to read it...

link removed

[thisisnotanexit]

Why focus so much on something that is hopefully far away when there is the here and now to be concerned about? Why selfishly think about my eternal salvation in heaven when I can place the needs of others first and ensure that the future generations on earth don't have to endure the same prejudges and sorrows that exist today?rs.

 

well honestly, you could die tonight. regardless of how selfish it sounds in theory, i think the afterlife is always going to be a pretty hot topic. i think it's great you want to put others first. so do i. christianity is basically saying, if you live this selfless life, etc., then voila..that's all that God asks. salvation isn't something you have to work extra at selfishly. it's a free gift, if you choose to have a relationship with god and live a loving life (which you say you already live). through his son Jesus we have that gift of salvation, if you acknowledge christ. it's not a selfish way to live.

[thisisnotanexit]

I could go on and on and on... I guess my question to you would be, "Why would a God that is so good and loving condemn a good person to hell becuase they are not a Christian?"

 

I don't believe in one RIGHT religion.

Since I am not as good with words as I would like to be, here is a link that explains how I feel, please don't be afraid to read it...

link removed

 

well, my response would be: he doesn't condemn, he's offering a chance out. God doesn't send people to hell, he offers a way out of it. he's loving and wants us to follow him away from that path.

 

i'm not good with words either, don't be afraid to read this either..

link removed

[Cynder]

And just what is wrong with "that path" meaning my path?

 

I read your link and some of the points they make seem a bit niave to me...

 

"Jesus claimed to be God." Well so did David Koresh. Someone claiming to be God doesn't mean they are right.

 

"Jesus lived a perfect life." What about the 18 years unaccounted for in the Bible? I am certainly not implyong that Jesaus was a horrible person, but I am sure he sinned like the rest of us.

 

"In many world religions people whip themselves for their sins or perform extensive self-sacrificing rituals." I don't do that, never have. (unless you count Tattoos, which are not ritualistic, as an artist I see them as a beautiful form of artistic expression) I know dozens of other Pagans, none of which whip themselves or perform these masochistic rituals.

 

"The message of the Bible is unique." The message of Paganism is stated in one sentance. "If it harm none do what you will." In my eyes not much different from "love thy neigbor" It's certainly not a "compilation of poetic, disjointed ideas." If it harm none do what you will : doesn't sound very disjointed to me, or very poetic either for that matter, just straight and to the point.

 

I honner and respect everyone's beliefs. I always try to keep my mind as open as possible. I am not saying you are wrong for believing the way you do. I just want to clear up some negative conotations that may be floating around.

 

On Jesus, there is no doubt in my mind that he existed, and that he had the gift of healing and prophecy. I don't, however think he is God. People in our modern times have these gifts, and they are not thought of as devine by any means.

 

Blessed Be

[thisisnotanexit]

People in our modern times have these gifts, and they are not thought of as devine by any means.

 

 

what gifts do you mean? i don't recall someone who can raise people from the dead or change water to wine.

 

i really don't mean to be a prick about all this, and i'm sorry if i sound like i'm preaching. you know how it is if you feel passionately about something..so yeah, this is just how i believe and i respect your beliefs too.

 

read this site -

link removed

[ShySoul]

It doesn't matter which path we choose if the destination is the same. If our goal is to live right, help others, and build a more peaceful world them we are really on the same path. What differs is details like names and rituals. In the end these things aren't truly important and can easily divide as.

 

"Jesus lived a perfect life." This misrepresents everything I was taught about Jesus. Jesus was the son of God, accepting a human form. With that form came all of the flaws and limitations that humanity has. Jesus was a bridge between God and us, devine and yet still human. I'll grant you that he may have been as close to perfection as there has been, but he wasn't perfect. I seem to recall a story in the Bible where Jesus got upset about a temple being used as a market place and basically threw a fit. Also, in the garden of Gathesmane (sp?) before he was caught and executed, Jesus asked that he wouldn't have to carry that burden. He got angry, had fears, and had flaws like anyone else.

 

"The message of the Bible is unique." The Bible is a unique interpretation on themes that are central to all religions. I once had a book that pointed to the same themes being featured in Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and other religions and used passages from the Bible, Koran, and other holy books are proof.

 

I respect others believes as well. I think that religion is a topic that people can get too passionate about. A debate on theology and philsophy is good as it can show you perspectives and ideas you might not have thought of. It can also strengthen your convections. If you are able to logical defend your viewpoints against other peoples challenges you will feel more secure about your beliefs. But too often people became convinced that there way is the one true way and they lose sight of the overall meaning of all religions and of God: peace and love.

[thisisnotanexit]

yeah..well, i guess i can't be as logical as some might expect. but anyway, i don't knwo what else to say. this pretty much sums up what i believe..so i mean, if you care you can check it out. if not, it's cool..whatever. that's just how i feel.

 

link removed

[Cynder]

When i siad people in modern times have these gifts I was referring to "healing and prophecy," as I specified.

 

You haven't come accross as a at all. I just enjoy a good exchange of ideas once in a while. I will read your link, I just don't have time right now because I'm leaving for work in a bit.

 

I do agree with Shysoul about the same central theme being expressed in many world religions, Christianity included.

[11flower]

I think this happens to so many Christians. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I go to a church. But I have gone through a series of stages in my 25 yrs of being a Christian.

 

If you read several of my other posts, you'll see some of the struggles I've gone through. Everyone goes through disillusionments, big-time temptations and trust issues with God. I have come to think of Jesus as the very best friend and individual I know. He's always been there to right any wrongs and knows them all anyway.

 

If any of you do read my posts and are shocked, GET OVER it. Anyone can judge me all they want. God's my Judge and Jury in the end. The Bible's words judge me now, and I have to find them out myself and let them tell me what they mean, if this makes sense.

The Bible, at least what I read in it, says to not fornicate. In other words, we're not supposed to have sex before we're married to our sex partner.

I had a sexual past before I got married, so I can't and won't point fingers though. Just telling what I read in it. It also says to not neglect going to a church because it strengthens you as a person, in one way or another if not that you're hearing God's words and they get into your heart and change your life...they're a living thing, you know of course?

 

When your trust wavers, do you ask Jesus about it and to help you find out what's bugging you? (We've had some real true shouting matches ;-) )If you read your bible, even a verse or two, and you're looking strongly for an answer, then you will have it.

 

I love this: "God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved." So, in Christ there's no condemnation even though sometimes people from church put condemnation on you. They can't possibly know your heart and what to tell you or how to help you. Try to get with God and talk to him and look for His answer. I bet you'll hear it if you keep at asking him. Trust me, slipping and sliding happens...it's great your talking about it.

 

11Flower

[11flower]

Wendella,

 

"People have truly ruined GOD with religion."

 

Totally agreed.

 

In my experience, God is so unlike what some of the religious ideals have made him to be. On the other hand, he's also very martial, stern, and severe when He has to be. He's also an Army General, in addition to Loving Father and friend.

 

"He knows our frame, that we are dust." He knows we'll all live and blow away in the wind one day.

 

As to the guy with the porn, well it sounds as if his heart needs some cleanin', or wounds need healin'. This is an addiction for this man he'd not yet dealt with, and now it came to the surface for him. So he's called on the carpet for it. I hope all eventually turns out well for him one day.

 

God heals the sick. Such is this man. None of us truly knows the depth of what's in our hearts. Sin runs deep and anyone can sink to the darkest levels of their own hearts given the right circumstances, place and time. What's new? We're all sinners. Not to make light or fun of.

 

I hope now this man will turn his life around with God's help if he lets Him.

 

11Flower

[11flower]

So, what is this? I'm not sure what you believe. There's so much to read there and the main idea's of each site appear conflicting, if I'm getting it right...

 

11Flower

[11flower]

Hey Cynder,

 

I think you present your ideas very intelligently. But..first...this was taken from the 1st paragraph in the article from the site you offered us:

 

"to presuppose that the first question is answered affirmatively, of course; though a thing can exist without our knowing it, we cannot know it exists unless it exists."

 

But what constitues know something exists? For me, much of what I know exists is because I have personally and uniquely experienced "it" myself.

If this statement means that you can taste, touch, smell, see, sense, hear it, then this is all a senses thing. Some people "know" by their senses. Others *know* by their faith. Trust in an idea. But there are some ideas that when trusted, come into being. Faith.

 

I have personally experienced something I call God, someone I call God. It was not a maleficent being. I have experienced a maleficent being as well and it was scary. Because I read in the bible that God isn't maleficent, but beneficent, I was open to the possibility He exists. In my own way and in the way I needed, He has proven this to me many times over. I have something to show for it in different experiences.

 

No, I'm not a know-it-all people. No way. Just sharing my many varied experiences. I'm here to learn as well.

 

Oh, I'm hearing the B-52s on right now. Gonna go and jump around while I cook dinner.

 

Humble bows,

11Flower

[Cynder]

Forgive me, I could be wrong, but I don't see that statement in the article I posted linkage to.

[11flower]

Okay, honestly, I skimmed over the article and copied this statement.

 

What do you think about my thoughts as to how existence of something is determined? I think everyone has their different means as to how they "know" something exists. Anyway, that may be a different topic and one which could go on and on ad infinitum.

 

You're a girl with brains. Tell us your thoughts, that is, if you wish.

 

Happy New Year!

 

11Flower

[Cynder]

Here is the article I linked, copied and pasted in it's enitirity:

 

A Special Note to the Christians who tell me I am going to burn in hell for eternity

by Summer Fey Foovay

A special note to the Christians who like to tell me I am going to fry in hell for eternity

 

You believe in the Devil. I do not. You believe in a firey Hell. I do not.

 

Maybe you believe in an earth shattering apocolypse as well. I believe that if that happens, it is because we allowed it to.

 

The big difference between our religions, as far as I can see, is your God of Love will condemn me to eternity in Hell. My loving Goddess will greet you when you enter the spirit world. Sit down with you and a box of popcorn and watch the movie of your life, then ask you how you judge yourself and the way you spent the power of your spirit in this life. If the two of you decide you spent it spreading negativity and pain, she will embrace you, pat you on the head, and then chose another life for you on this plane to try it all over again.

 

Maybe that would be hell for you, come to think of it.

 

 

~Blessedbe~

~Summer~

 

Where is that statement? Am I just having a brain fart and reading over it, because I don't see it anywhere in that article.

 

I know things exist because I have faith in them, and I approach a lot of things logically as well. It is not impossible to mix logic and faith to arrive at a solid conclusion.

[thisisnotanexit]

i understand what you're saying

 

but again, i just have a problem with why people think the Christian god condemns people to hell? i believe he doesn't send people there, he offers a way out of it..at least that's what i believe.