Had an eye-opening experience today

[MattW]

Remember that girl I was super into from work, asked out months ago, and got turned down by? So today, she approached me while I was on break, and wanted to talk to me about something. Apparently someone said something to her about me, and she said she felt like things had gotten weird between us, and that she didn't want that. I was dumbfounded, and I just kind of agreed with her, and that was that. I kinda collected my thoughts, though, and told her that I wanted to talk to her, and clear the air a bit. Of course, though, we didn't really get a chance to have that conversation, so we agreed to talk on Saturday when we see each other again.

 

First of all, I can't say I'm mad or upset at anyone else, I know it falls on me for having opened my mouth to anyone in the first place. Actually, I'm kind of grateful, because this gives me an opportunity to finally talk to her about all this again, and truly clear the air once and for all. Her coming to me about this was really eye-opening for me.

 

I'm mulling over what, exactly, I want to say to her. I think the first thing I'm going to do is take responsibility for and apologize for both things getting weird, and for someone having said something to her. It is my fault, after all, and the least I can do is man up and take responsibility for that. Once that's out of the way, I'm going to somehow convey to her that I completely understand and respect that she's not interested in "dating" me, but that I'd really like to have some kind of a friendship with her. I figure, I have this perfect opportunity to hit on that topic, so I might as well take it, yanno?

 

So, I have a couple days to collect my thoughts and figure out what I want to say. Like I said, very eye-opening, but hopefully this will provide an opportunity for she and I to begin developing a proper friendship.

[trigherie]

Поздоавляю всех с наступившим НГ !

[offplanet]

I went back through your post listings to try to find the one about this girl but couldn't find it so I don't know the background. But whatever it is, I suggest not wording it that you would like 'some kind of friendship' with her, in case you get rejected again. Word it that you'd like things to be 'normal' between you, or something like that, something which she couldn't say no to. From there things can develop naturally. If there's to be friendship it will happen, without her having to make a decision about it then and there, if you can see what I'm getting at. I just don't want you to put yourself in the position where she could 'reject' you again. Keep things very light and neutral, nothing which could 'scare her away', because it's great that you now have the chance to clear the air. From what I read of your posts you sound like a very nice and interesting guy, and she might get the chance to appreciate you. I hope so.

[MattW]

I went back through your post listings to try to find the one about this girl but couldn't find it so I don't know the background. But whatever it is, I suggest not wording it that you would like 'some kind of friendship' with her, in case you get rejected again.

 

See, here's the thing. She and I have worked together for a little while now. We started hitting it off really well over the summer and fall, and I asked her out a few months ago, we talked it over a little at the time, and she ultimately turned me down. We haven't had much contact outside of work, except for two times where we went places together in a group with some other people. And it's likely that she'll be leaving for a new job in the near future, so I don't exactly have much time to let a friendship "occur naturally" at this point, yanno? I figure I might as well go for broke, and just try to kickstart it when I talk to her on Saturday. At the moment, this is the basic "script" I've worked out in my head for when I talk to her:

 

"I agree that things have gotten weird, and I'll take full responsibility for that. I don't know who told you what, but I'll take responsibility for that, too. So, the first thing I want to say is, I'm really really sorry for all of that. I never wanted things to get weird, and I definitely never meant for anyone else to get involved in any capacity, so again, I'm sorry for that.

 

The other thing I wanted to say is, regardless of whatever anyone else said, nobody knows what's really going on in my head except me, and I think it might help if I explain to you where I'm at with all of this, because I don't want you to wonder what I'm thinking or 'feeling' when you're around me. I get that you're not interested in the whole dating thing, and I get that that's not going to change. And I'm okay with that. I'm not actively trying to 'get with you', and I'm not sitting here hoping you'll change your mind some day.

 

That said, you're one of the coolest people I've met in a very very long time, and it's been way too long since there's been someone I can talk to and play around with the way I can with you, and I feel like we've gotten away from that lately. For a little while, now, I've been kinda wishing that we could be better friends, even outside of work. Heck, there have been times where I kinda wanted to say 'Hey, wanna go get lunch?' or 'Wanna go get coffee?' or whatever, but I always stopped myself, because I didn't want you to think 'Oh, god, he's asking me out again...'. And now that you're done with school, I imagine you won't be working here much longer, and as you pointed out, you're not into the whole Facebook thing, so I can't exactly keep in touch with you that way. It'd just be nice to still be able to see you and talk to you, even after you leave, and I think given the opportunity, we could be really good friends. But, I completely understand if that doesn't interest you, either, I don't want you to feel like I'm trying to push you into something you don't want. Just throwing it out there."

 

I think I'm pretty happy with that, and that pretty much says everything I want to say.

[offplanet]

Well if she's leaving soon, that puts it in a different light. But to be honest, what you've prepared to say to her is way too lengthy, too many words, too much explanation. I think it would tend to be a bit overwhelming for her. Something simple would be better. Actually, if she's leaving, I don't know how you're going to be able to arrange catching up with her as she's already refused a 'date'. Anything you could suggest as far as meeting up as friends would still probably seem like a date. As she's leaving, I guess you've got nothing to lose by trying, but I suggest something short and simple and light.

[MattW]

Yeah, I don't know, I might try to condense the last two paragraphs a bit. I sort of just want to put it all out there, get it all out in the open, and just be done with it, yanno? I don't want there to be any lingering doubts, questions, or concerns for either of us, and I just want the whole thing to be put to rest once and for all so that we can maybe work towards actually becoming friends before she leaves.

[blueidealist24]

Yeah, the gist of what you're saying sounds good, but I think you should try to say it in more brief terms. If you went on for THAT long you might sound like you're still obsessed with her.

 

At least she cares enough to talk, if she disliked you totally she would just be glad things were "weird" between you and leave you alone.

[EssexMan]

I know it's tempting to make "definitive statements" that wrap up everything you think and feel about someone, but they're never really satisfactory and they can come accross as sounding obsessive and way too analytical.

 

Keep it really short. "Sorry if you thought things were getting weird between us, that certainly wasn't my intention. Do you want to have lunch sometime? It'd be nice to have time for a good chat before you leave the company."

[Angler]

Less is more.

 

What happened with the other person? Did you send a third party in to pry?

[Batya33]

Yes, agree totally that less is more and I would do far more listening than talking -you'll learn a lot more about what she's thinking (including from her body language). And force yourself not to rehearse in your mind what you're going to say next. Just listen, actively.

[MattW]

What happened with the other person? Did you send a third party in to pry?

 

Nah, nothing like that. A while back, two other girls we work with had noticed and picked up on things, and put two and two together, so I confided in them a bit. They were both pretty supportive and I conveyed to them as best I could that I was "okay", and not, like, hung up over it. Not too long ago, this other guy caught wind of it, too, which I found to be pretty regrettable, especially considering that this guy had a brief "thing" with this girl a long time ago. Anyway, apparently one of them recently mentioned something to her about me. I don't know who, or what was said exactly, but I guess whatever it was couldn't have been TOO crazy if she felt comfortable enough to come to me about it.

 

Yes, agree totally that less is more and I would do far more listening than talking -you'll learn a lot more about what she's thinking (including from her body language). And force yourself not to rehearse in your mind what you're going to say next. Just listen, actively.

 

True enough, but I kinda did the "listening" the other day, when she talked to me. It was funny, because before she said what she wanted to say, she asked me to let her say what she wanted to say, then I could respond however I wanted to. I did listen to her, and I was so dumbstruck that I didn't have much of a response at all, except for just kind of agreeing with what she was saying. Then I decided I did want to "respond" and "clear the air", so that's pretty much what this is, my response to her from the other day.

 

Anyway, today's the day. Feeling pretty nervous. I don't think the general idea I'm trying to convey to her is going to weird her out, or anything like that, but still, I'm not used to having conversations like this, and regardless of how weird or not it may be, you never really know how someone is going to respond, yanno? Man, I just can't wait until today is over with.

[EssexMan]

Anyway, today's the day.

 

Well, let us know how it goes.

[MattW]

I said what I wanted to say, and she listened. She did end up telling me that she thought it would be too weird to be friends beyond work, unfortunately. We both said that we were "good", and agreed never to talk about it again. As it pertains to her, I think I'm okay. There are no longer any lingering questions or thoughts, or things left unsaid. I now know with certainty that I can't have her in my life in any capacity. I'm done thinking about her.

 

I am, however, very very upset, and I'm spiraling downwards. Somewhere during our conversation, she said that she didn't think I was a "bad person", and maybe she meant that or maybe she was just saying that. But the more I've been thinking about it, the more I, myself, have started to believe that I am, indeed, a "bad person". I made such a mess of this situation... I got overly attached to this girl, and I made bad decisions because of it. I let other people get involved, and all that did was cause trouble. Things got so bad that we actually had to have a conversation about all of this. And worst of all, things got so bad that, regardless of me owning up to my mistakes, apologizing, and trying to make things right, she still doesn't feel comfortable enough towards me to allow me into her life on even a platonic level.

 

The problem is, I've made these mistakes before, in the past. Clearly, I didn't learn from them then, and most likely, I won't learn from them now. I'll get trapped in the same cycle I always trap myself in: meet someone (or people) I like a lot -> get overly attached -> make a big mess of things -> push everyone away because of it -> feel sad, ashamed, and alienated -> close myself off from the rest of the world, until the cycle begins again. I'll just keep making the same mistakes until I die a sad lonely old man, with no one in his life.

 

I want so badly to have that human companionship, but I think the writing is on the wall, and that I'm just not fit to have that human companionship. I'm weak, I'm pathetic, I make the same mistakes over and over again, I never learn from them, I make big messes of things, I cause problems, I push people away... I'm a bad person. I don't deserve friends, I certainly don't deserve a lady in my life. I don't deserve anyone.

 

Man, I tell ya, I'm barely holding it together right now. The fact that I was able to even write out this entire post without breaking down is a miracle in and of itself. I'm spiraling further and further downward. I don't know where I go from here. I don't know where I CAN go from here. I just don't learn. That's why I'm 24 and completely alone. That's why I'll likely be completely alone my entire life. I don't learn.

[blueidealist24]

You aren't a bad person. It's not bad to be interested in someone else and want their companionship. It's not like you had any evil or unethical motives toward her. Your only problem is breaking that pattern that you describe, becoming emotionally attached and sort of obsessive. If you can't break the pattern on your own when you meet another girl, it could be time to consider counselling.

[Batya33]

I am sorry she doesn't want to stay in touch. Don't use this one (or even several) experiences as an excuse to wallow in self-pity and "I'm going to die a lonely man" - have a short pity party and resolve to behave differently, if needed ,next time. I made many mistakes and now my 3 year old is trying to write his letters in brown crayon based on what I am typing here. He's making mistakes of course and had I thrown in the towel based on my mistakes I wouldn't be experiencing this now. It's so worth it, I promise.

[MattW]

I am sorry she doesn't want to stay in touch. Don't use this one (or even several) experiences as an excuse to wallow in self-pity and "I'm going to die a lonely man" - have a short pity party and resolve to behave differently, if needed ,next time. I made many mistakes and now my 3 year old is trying to write his letters in brown crayon based on what I am typing here. He's making mistakes of course and had I thrown in the towel based on my mistakes I wouldn't be experiencing this now. It's so worth it, I promise.

 

Well, I'm not wallowing in self-pity because of this girl, and I know everyone makes mistakes. The problem is, I never learn from mine, and I continue to make the same ones over and over and over again. The whole point of making mistakes is to learn from them, and become a better person. But I never do that. It doesn't seem to matter if I "resolve to do things differently next time"; last time I made these mistakes, I hated myself for them, and promised myself I'd never make them again. Yet lo and behold, that's exactly what I ended up doing. I want to say I'll do things differently "next time", but deep down, I know I won't. I know I'm not a "better person" coming out of this.

[Batya33]

Well, I'm not wallowing in self-pity because of this girl, and I know everyone makes mistakes. The problem is, I never learn from mine, and I continue to make the same ones over and over and over again. The whole point of making mistakes is to learn from them, and become a better person. But I never do that. It doesn't seem to matter if I "resolve to do things differently next time"; last time I made these mistakes, I hated myself for them, and promised myself I'd never make them again. Yet lo and behold, that's exactly what I ended up doing. I want to say I'll do things differently "next time", but deep down, I know I won't. I know I'm not a "better person" coming out of this.

 

So all that means is that you have to work harder at finding more effective ways of dealing with you mistakes. You didn't "end up doing" anything -you made choices - next time you have to make different choices - it's not easy but it's wort it. And if you've decided to choose not to change then I don't see the point of posting - if it's only to vent and seek sympathy, ok, but you don't seem to feel better or more positive from complaining.

[MattW]

That's the thing, though, I WANT to make better choices, and when something like this happens, I tell myself that, should there be a "next time", I'll do things differently. Then the next time comes around, and despite me wanting to do things better, and despite me having made a vow to myself that I WOULD do things better, I make the same choices I did last time. I don't know why. It just happens. That's the problem, I don't "learn" from anything. I make bad decisions, I feel awful about it, but I don't "learn" from my mistakes and I don't do things better the next time I have the opportunity to do so.

[blueidealist24]

Next time you have a crush on a girl and you feel like acting that way, you should go back and read these threads. It'll make you more strongly remember how bad you felt after doing certain things and may motivate you to try harder not to do them. That being said, I read happppybear's post in your other thread - you weren't completely in the wrong here, some of your coworkers manipulated you. I didn't really think of that.

[MattW]

Next time you have a crush on a girl and you feel like acting that way, you should go back and read these threads. It'll make you more strongly remember how bad you felt after doing certain things and may motivate you to try harder not to do them.

 

I hope so. Although, over the last few months, I was aware enough to see that I was making the same mistakes I did in the past, but I almost felt like I couldn't control myself, couldn't stop myself from doing them all over again. v_v

[Batya33]

That's the thing, though, I WANT to make better choices, and when something like this happens, I tell myself that, should there be a "next time", I'll do things differently. Then the next time comes around, and despite me wanting to do things better, and despite me having made a vow to myself that I WOULD do things better, I make the same choices I did last time. I don't know why. It just happens. That's the problem, I don't "learn" from anything. I make bad decisions, I feel awful about it, but I don't "learn" from my mistakes and I don't do things better the next time I have the opportunity to do so.

 

No, it doesn't just happen. That's the theme of much of what you write but, no what you're writing about and complaining about doesn't just happen. Wanting to make better choices is great and if you want it badly enough you'll figure out how to get from point A to point B. There certainly are things we can't control in life but luckily for you the vast majority of the changes you want are within your control. Not always easy, but yes, within your control. I can relate to how hard it is but resist the temptation to dismiss it as "it just happens" -that's the worst way to motivate yourself.