nbr Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Not sure where this belongs, but I'm putting it in communication because we're talking about it (at least). Long story short: My wife had to grow up at 6, taking care of her 4 year old brother. She's always been the grown-up. She had to care for her dad, and in many ways both he and I were just more kids to care for. Now that she's left the marriage mentally, we're starting to talk about what she wants. I've manged to really turn myself around these last three months, and it's been hard. She's given me feedback that I've done well, that I'm really turning into an awesome dad, and would make a great husband... for someone else. Last night we were talking about my emotional affair, and her nascent one, that looks to be fizzling out. She said "What if I wanted to have an affair? What if I wanted to be reckless?" I don't know that she would actually go through with it, and as she said, she doesn't know if she would either. She asked me if I would leave if she slept with someone else, and I said "I don't know". I really don't. Either answer I give her is bad, "Yes I'd leave" then she might just go do it to be rid of me, "No, I'd stay" and it's like tacit permission. I understand where she's coming from, always having to be reserved, always being the adult. She feels like it's her turn to party. We started dating when we were 16, and we're 36 with two kids now. I reminded her that if she went through with it she'd feel guilty, and I didn't want to see her have to carry that guilt. She said she'd have to love me to feel guilty, and I reminded her we have two kids, and that's two other reasons she'd feel guilty. Also reminded her that even though I did have an emotional affair, I got out of it before things ever got even slightly physical, that whether or not I wanted to sleep with the OW, I did not. It wasn't a hostile conversation, rather the opposite. It was very dispassionate, and unemotional (some of it stung to me, but I could tell it really didn't for her). Anyone have any thoughts on how I can play this out in such a way as to make her feel like she's taking some of those reckless jumps without actually going into the full infidelity territory? I think some of this is "getting even" with my affair, but only a little, a lot more feels like it's that stifled girl who never really got to go have fun and is trying to get out. I *want* to save my marriage, and I *do* love my wife with all my heart, never stopped loving her, even if I was an a$$ for years. I know I can't stop her if she's set on this, and to be honest I don't know myself if I could forgive her enough to take her back if she went through with it, I just want some ideas besides the MFT stuff with how to steer her away from that without being a controlling jerk about it. The MFT sessions are focusing on many of her early wounds and wounds that happened while we were together, but any time we get close to something like this, or some of the really harsh childhood stuff, she shuts down. The therapist sees it too, and we're trying to come up with ways to re-engage her. She's even said she feels guilty for not loving me anymore, because she sees all the work I've been doing to repair my side of the marriage, and family, and feels she should love me, but doesn't. I told her not to feel guilty for that, she can't control how she feels right now, only how she acts. Please, anyone with ideas, critiques, even harsh truths, bring it on. I know the marriage is over right now, but I want to start it up again, not give up on it. Also, before anyone posts about her being selfish, yes, she is. BUT she also is talking to me about this before it happens, not afterwards, or not at all, I have to give her credit for that at least. -nbr Link to comment
mhowe Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Your wife has checked out. And I think that the therapist is your best source of info regarding her.... try and stay positive and focus on the kids. Link to comment
pippy longstocking Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I just don;t know what to suggest ... when your talking on here ,you cover all areas , you understand her , you have been doing everything you can , you have talked , MFT , given everything you can into making this right and to continue your path together . you already said the two varients Either answer I give her is bad, "Yes I'd leave" then she might just go do it to be rid of me, "No, I'd stay" and it's like tacit permission. darling I just don't know if your flogging a dead horse here or can do anything else ...I have never met anyone with as much understanding as you ..honest , you have given this all you have . I hope someone can be of more use than me hugs to you darling xx Link to comment
calichick007 Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I reminded her that if she went through with it she'd feel guilty, and I didn't want to see her have to carry that guilt. She said she'd have to love me to feel guilty Ouch. I don't know that there's any way to "steer" her from this sort of behavior, short of physically restraining her. She's an adult and is going to do what she wants to do - apparently, with little regard for how it makes you feel. I agree that it sounds as though she has totally checked out. I'm sorry I don't have anything more positive/useful to add. Link to comment
nbr Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 I know that Just wondering if anyone has ideas, not in how to get her to check back in, but in how I can steer conversations like this into something a little more positive, and hopefully less hurtful for me. Getting her to check back in, if possible, is the MFT's job. I just need more tools for that time between sessions -nbr Link to comment
mhowe Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I would truly not focus on her. These conversations seem designed to wound you...so, when she brings it up -- say "you are a woman capable of knowing her own mind". And go take the kids for an ice cream. I think she is doing this to be mean, and to punish you. You have apologized already. You have changed your behavior. She is not accepting any of that. Link to comment
pippy longstocking Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 , but in how I can steer conversations like this into something a little more positive, and hopefully less hurtful for me. your not willing to just walk away I presume , in which case I presume again that she feels you can both talk about anything, so I think you have run out of options cut her off and just walk away grit your teeth through it or form some bounderies that suit your needs as well as hers ...but of course then you wont know what she is planning .. Link to comment
pippy longstocking Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 may I be honest without hurting you I think she is just taking the piss and knows how much you want this and is pretty much sat back abusing your kindness now. Link to comment
nbr Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 I just don;t know what to suggest ... when your talking on here ,you cover all areas , you understand her , you have been doing everything you can , you have talked , MFT , given everything you can into making this right and to continue your path together . you already said the two varients darling I just don't know if your flogging a dead horse here or can do anything else ...I have never met anyone with as much understanding as you ..honest , you have given this all you have . I hope someone can be of more use than me hugs to you darling xx Understanding is easy once you've finally looked deep into your own failures and faults. I wholly shoved her out the door emotionally, and only now figured out *oops*. She's got every right in the world to be done with me, and I accept that. I even can accept that the marriage is over and it's couple best friends right now sharing a house and FWB (I hate that's what it has become, but I can accept that). The most painful thing she's said to me wasn't that she'd have to love me to feel guilty, it's when she said I've become a good father (yaaaa) and that I'd make a wonderful husband (yaaaa)... for someone else (*sob*). In the last three months I really have fully re-invented myself. It's been hard, and long, and immensely uncomfortable at times. I still have codependency/needy issues, but I'm to a point where I can recognize them when they crop up. In all the "ease" stuff I've turned a complete 180. She's even said she feels guilty for not loving me, because she sees all the work I've done to fix issues. The MFT sessions have now turned away from working on my issues/bad behavior to her issues and challenges. I think this is some of where it's coming from. It's starting to be about her, and she's starting to feel that discomfort. Y'alls here were brutal with me on some things, and that was so needed it can't be described how much it helped. She (I think) is very scared of facing the same kind of brutal honesty about her. (I totally understand that Actually (in my head only) toyed with the idea of buying her a 3 pack of condoms, telling her "go use them, you have 1 month". I think that would be a bad idea, even if it sounds good (doubt I could stomach it if nothing else). -nbr Link to comment
pippy longstocking Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Actually (in my head only) toyed with the idea of buying her a 3 pack of condoms, telling her "go use them, you have 1 month". I think that would be a bad idea, even if it sounds good (doubt I could stomach it if nothing else). oh darling ....no .. your better than this Link to comment
iamkaylee Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm going to throw something at you here my friend. In the beginning, you were a man that she fell in love with. As you became a different man over the years, she loved that man less and less. It is entirely possible she can not love the new reinvented man she lives with now. Just as you aren't the same now, neither is she who she was in the beginning. Link to comment
luminousone Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I would truly not focus on her. These conversations seem designed to wound you...so, when she brings it up -- say "you are a woman capable of knowing her own mind". And go take the kids for an ice cream. I think she is doing this to be mean, and to punish you. You have apologized already. You have changed your behavior. She is not accepting any of that. Mhowe has some great advice. Your wife is looking to you for either permission to let go, or to goad you into reacting so badly that it would ease her conscious in vacating your marriage. Even if she does not love you currently, people do fall in and out of love in long-term marriages. Hopefully not both at the same time. What keeps them together is the element of commitment that brings the relationship through, until a sense of connection and intimacy is reached once again. Do not play into her games - simply tell her that she must make her own decision and that you have already made it quite clear that you want to patch things up. The issues are not just your emotional affair, but are equal on both sides. And it sounds like you are doing your best to change for your wife. However, please don't discount the hurt and damage that an emotional affair can bring to a relationship. Just because it did not get "physical" does not mean it was a benign relationship. My husband had a few emotional affairs and he says he was completely "faithful" because they never got to a physical level. However, it damaged our marriage permanently - it took his time and emotional energy away from our relationship - and from him spending time with our children! I think for women, an emotional affair can be just as hurtful as a physical one, because we tend to relate so much on an emotional level. And that is why it hurts so much. I am not trying to make you feel guilty - (your wife is, however). Forgiveness must happen on both ends for your relationship to work. Otherwise you will never get beyond this. Whether she stays or goes to explore life is beyond your control. She knows that. You need to make clear to her that she cannot have both - either go forth and be free, or stay and work on the marriage 100% with no games, no guilt trips, no threats, etc. This is important for your children's sake. It would not be good for them to have you guys going back and forth. I know that when you set a boundary then there is the chance that your wife might bail on your marriage, but you don't have much of a marriage when she is threatening to leave and says she doesn't love you. In my ex's case - he spent his entire life taking care of others as well. His father and mother were in constant financial crises - and would call in the middle of the night begging for $100,000 by the next morning or they would lose everything! (His dad even said "You don't love me because you didn't lend me the money" once when he said no to them.) Sadly, he lumped me in the category as one more person to take care of... although I was a stay at home wife and mother and did so much for him! And was financially stable and independent before we got married and had kids. I think my ex needed to break free of a relationship to do what he needs to do. He will not be back with me (nor will I take him back at this point) but has now become a registered domestic partner with his gf... I suspect he will bail from her as well in a few years. I suspect your wife needs to break free in order to do the growing she was unable to do as a child. Hope I am wrong, because it sounds like you have put your heart and soul into your marriage recently. However, she is the one in charge of what she decides and she is basically telling you she is ready to leave... DO NOT give her permission to leave, DO NOT give her condoms. Simply let her make her own decisions. You can give her a deadline if you need it, so that she is not constantly hanging her threats to leave over your head. It will be a relief for you to know one way or the other, so you can move forward in life. As it stands, you are in limbo. Hope it all works out for you - and if you need to make an interim appointment with the MFT then call them. Link to comment
nbr Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 oh darling ....no .. your better than this Oh,I know that. She simply doesn't even know what the heck she wants. I just would rather she grasp at a different straw than this one is all... Link to comment
nbr Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 However, please don't discount the hurt and damage that an emotional affair can bring to a relationship. Just because it did not get "physical" does not mean it was a benign relationship. My husband had a few emotional affairs and he says he was completely "faithful" because they never got to a physical level. However, it damaged our marriage permanently - it took his time and emotional energy away from our relationship - and from him spending time with our children!/QUOTE] I don't mean to discount it at all. She chucked the "you wanted to so that's the same as having done it" card a while ago at me. I will accept that it is just as damaging, but I won't accept that it is the same as having done it. I didn't expose her to any STD's etc. As to giving permission, I certainly will not. It was a scenario I ran in my head and it went way too badly. Aside from that, yeah iamkaylee, I think she likes the new guy, but the old guy has the same face and was a bad guy for so long and in so many ways, she may not be able to get over it. I hope she does... -nbr Link to comment
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