My Apology to ENA.

[Dougie_D]

O.k...I'm sorry. I was a little upset about a situation. But honestly THAT SITUATION just got fuzzier.

 

First off, I need to apologize to ENA. I have to admit I can be stubborn. I've taken everything in consideration. I've decided that even though I have tried something in the past, I probably need to try it again. I know you guys have been helping me. I can't blame other people for trying to help me. If it's not working, I just need to work on it.

 

So please take my apology.

 

Now that I have said that, I need some guidance on this situation.

 

I've been getting to know the GIRL for about a year now. At first, I would always be the one trying to hang out with her. I asked her out to movies, dinners, etc.. but she always gave me some type of excuse.

 

Now, it's starting to turn the other direction, where she'll BE THE FIRST one to ask to hang out. It's ALWAYS the same text. "R you out tonight?, "What's your plans?" , "Come to out to BAR" This has been going on for months.

 

I've learned in the past with this same girl, that when she invites me out to a BAR, there will be other people she is hanging out with. But it's more of her BAR fly people. Sometimes it may be work buddies. Anyways.. I'm cool with that. She DOES get jealous though, when I talk to other girls. One time I was talking to a gilr out on the patio and GIRL comes in later to join the conversation. After 3 minutes, the GIRL just leaves...and I go up to her and ask, where did you go? And she said "I thought you wanted to talk to her, so I just left you two alone."

 

That's kind of the relationship I have with her. But this week really confused me.

 

Last week: She invited me to a FOOTBALL game. I'm thinking, cool! But when I ask her 2 days afterwards, "So what are the plans for the game?" She replies "Oh, my friend bought tickets already. If you want to go to the game, you'll have to buy tickets for yourself."

 

That was F-d up. I felt like I wasn't even treated like a friend!

 

5 days goes past and I get another "R you out tonight??" I like hanging out with people, and having just a friend that's a girl is good. This is how I treat her. No big deal. I wouldn't mind being in a relationship but if we are just friends, then I'm cool with it too. So when I hang out at the bars with her, that's how it is.

 

I TOLD her that I didn't like the football game plan outcome. She did indeed apologize, which was cool. She randomly tells me that she has a " f-buddy and she still fools around with her ex sometimes". Her F-buddy is also a WORK buddy. She also said that the bartenders know of this guy and she claims that the bartenders probably think GIRL and WORK F Buddy are boyfriend/girlfriend. "So, I'm thinking...my chances in being in actual relationship is burned. I'm OK with it.

 

But then LAST night...(the same day of the football game) she invites me out to a MOVIE. It turned out to be just the 2 of us. I'm just not used to what's going on. Also, IMMEDIATELY after the movie she starts to text someone. 12:30 a.m. I'm guessing it's the F Buddy?

 

Am I being USED as DECOY? I am thinking she likes to invite me out whenever she knows there will be a booty call involved...like maybe, she feels better if all of work buddies, bar people, etc.. assume that I"M the F-buddy and not the real one? Because she hangs out with work buddies.

 

I just don't know what's happening???!!!

 

O.k. Also on a side note: If I seem like I'm desperate, what things I need to do TO NOT make myself look so deperate? Should I just not do things by myself? Please help me with this. Should I just not TALK about my girl problems???

[Bergk]

Well, there is no reason to not talk about your girl problems when there is a great forum such as this. Is there a mutual friend you could speak to, to suss if your friend has any romantic feelings for you? Also, have you ever thought of being direct with her? - and ask whether or not she would only ever see you as a friend. I am sure if you approach it well the friendship wont be lost.

[r0ckox]

First of all, drop this broad. Don't even waste your time being her "friend" - she sits there and invites you to a football game (one of the greatest things to ever experience, especially if it's a team you like) then out of left field she "cancels" telling you that her friend bought the tickets and you have to buy your own... do you know what that really means? she found someone else to go with her, and now if you want to go, you've got to fend for yourself.

 

not much of a friend.

 

and yeah, maybe she didn't tell you all the details about the game to begin with.. maybe she should have told you from the get-go that you had to buy your own ticket, but she didn't make that clear, so it's understandable to be upset over it.

 

then she invites you to a movie and starts texting other people, because she was bored with you. dude - that's just 2 examples that you posted that show she's not even worth being friends with.

i can only imagine the other crap she does to you.

yeah yeah, okay - maybe she was replying to a text or whatever.. fine. but people who are interested in being in your company don't blow you off for their phones.

 

grow a pair of nuts, man. sorry but seriously. stop letting people treat you like this. i've read a few of your threads on here and it seems to me like you let people walk on you. hell yeah you're a decoy. hell yeah you're being used.... for what?

 

she's already telling you she's got a F-buddy on the side, and it's clear nothing will ever happen between you two... what chances did you ever have??? she may act "jealous" if you're talking to another girl, but if she's not trying to make something happen with you, it's really NOT jealousy... she just likes attention. she's useless.

 

don't waste your time man. $10 says you won't listen to this, as i'm the type who never listens either -- but seriously....

 

tell her to bounce.

 

you recently posted a thread about how you hate being nice --- what are you gonna do about it? you going to keep letting this garbage happen, or are you gonna man-up?

[Alezia]

You don't need to apologize Doug. Sometimes we don't always know how to do what's best for us. Other times we know what to do, and our stubbornness prevents us from doing it. We all go through some form of this sooner or later in our life.

 

First of all, I would forget trying to have her in your life under any capacity as a romantic partner. You could probably salvage this situation as friend, if you establish clear boundaries.

 

To answer your bar issue. Most immature extroverted people simply want to cram as many people they know in the bar as possible. Why? Because it makes them look desired and surrounded by familiar faces. I wouldn't relate this particular experience to "YOU", as she's probably mass texting people to come join her to a bar. You're just someone she's texted as part of a "list" of friends that are outside of her close knit circle of friends. (possibly the bar flies people you refer to?)

 

I will bet that she's always the one who's already at the bar and has chosen the location. You are pretty much just invited to 'join in', if you are not up to doing anything else. She probably never consults you on what type of bar you'd prefer, or what crowd you'd prefer having. She's already done that with her other circle, and she doesn't really value your opinion. She just cares on whether or not you show up (and at that not so much I would bet). If she does get jealous, it's because she is afraid of losing all the attention you are giving her by going out with someone else (aka you won't be available to wait on her every move anymore if you have a gf). Don't read this as the fact that she sees you as a romantic partner in any sense.

 

The movie and the football situations just make me think that you are easily available, and a convenient blow up doll replacement for her activities. If she invites you out, you will always accept. It's not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but combined with your 'desperate attitude', you are an easy target to fulfill that role.

I doubt that she would use you as a "decoy". If she wants a decoy, she'll use a particularly hot and popular guy so that people think higher of her.

She is probably just going to the movies to waste time before she can hook up with guys during the night, and planning her hook up via text messaging while you are present. She obviously doesn't see you in any sexual capacity.

 

Anyways, my 2 cents, and it kills me that I can relate to her side better than yours. I would avoid talking to her about your girl problems at all costs. She already sees you as weak.

 

I think you really need to decide if you can see her in a friend-only capacity before moving forward. The romantic capacity that you've been reading into is long dead (if it ever existed). You shouldn't try to be her friend if you are still emotionally invested in her. Take some time off away from her for a few months before you decide if you can pursue a friendship.

[Dougie_D]

I know...I really feel like I shouldn't even spend time with her.

 

The only reason why I still DO is because she's the only person that's WILLING to spend time with me. Even my roommates won't go see a movie, go to a bar, etc.. with me.

 

Also, I have a hard time making friends w/out them using me. If I don't let them use me, then no one wants to hang out.

 

If everyone agrees I shouldn't hang out with her...then I will not.

[Dougie_D]

Thanks Alezia! Your post really, really helped me a lot! That's what I thought. I was just another name on her list.

 

Now, I wish I have a list to pick from! haha!

[Alezia]

You don't have the best of cards to play out right now. I would focus on making new friends the most you can, and when you feel comfortable, cut her out. It depends if you think you can handle having no friends or not.

 

I'd stop putting threads on this forum trying to analyze her, and trying to meet new people. Don't stop to focus on whether they are male or female at this point.

[blueidealist24]

She's totally friendzoning you. The reason she's telling you about the other guys and that the bartender thinks they're in a relationship is that she's trying to imply a relationship won't be on the table between her and you. Hello, friendzone. Sorry. It doesn't sound like she's that bad of a friend, really, although the football game thing was insensitive. I'd forget any romantic possibilities with her though if you could.

[Dougie_D]

I'm totally down with just being friends with her for sure.

 

I'm not used to hanging out with girls by myself in general. Plus, we have NO mutual friends. That part is what I'm definitely not used to. I have a mutual friend with EVERY single other girl type friend. I

 

As long as I keep telling myself, it's not gonna happen, I think I'll do O.K.

 

I just wish that she has GIRLFRIENDS for her to introduce me too! All these friends are guys!!! Haha! Oh well.

[t3nder_v1ttl3s]

She DOES get jealous though, when I talk to other girls. One time I was talking to a gilr out on the patio and GIRL comes in later to join the conversation. After 3 minutes, the GIRL just leaves...and I go up to her and ask, where did you go? And she said "I thought you wanted to talk to her, so I just left you two alone."

 

You mentioned that she gets jealous but the example you provided does not sound like jealousy to me. Of course I know nothing of the body language or anything else that may have given you that impression. But her coming out where you were, seeing you with another girl and then leaving you two alone doesn’t sound like jealousy. It sounds like consideration to me.

 

In my personal experience when girls get jealous there are usually a couple of ways it gets expressed depending on the situation. One way is they will start ignoring you. Their mood will change when they are around you – if they are normally very open and friendly, they will change and become colder and distant and less talkative or responsive. Another way is they’ll actually try to butt into your conversation with other girls. They will physically put themselves between you and the “other” girl. They will start being very affectionate and hugging up to you or clinging to you while you are around the “other” girl.

 

Of course they’ll also often say something to you about the other girl and their attitude will be obvious. Anyway, I was just curious as to what this girl has done to make you think she gets jealous?

 

I also get a vibe from everything you are saying that maybe this girl really does just see you as a friend. Honestly, it seems like you are trying to read a lot into everything she does. Sometimes an invite is just an invite. Maybe she really thinks you’re a cool guy and just likes hanging out with you, but you keep thinking the invites signify something more because you want them to. From what I read in your post, I’m not seeing the signs that she “likes” you in that way. But I do see that she likes your friendship. Hanging out with you may be nothing more than that to her. When she wants someone to go to the movies with, she calls you up just like any other buddy might. My friends do this stuff all the time including the female friends. Everything you’ve described is normal behavior for my female friends when they are hanging out with or talking to me. And I’m pretty sure none of them have a crush on me. And since I don't have crushes on them, it doesn’t get confusing.

 

Have you asked her how she sees you? Have you told her how you feel? She even talks to you about intimate stuff which again, is very normal for friends to do. Guys always talk about who they screwed or are screwing with each other. My friends certainly do anyway. Girls often do that too with their friends. I’m just not seeing the signs that this girl likes you outside of friendship. If you really need to know, then ask her how she feels about you or tell her how you feel about her.

[Alezia]

I agree t3nder, but if he keeps having to convince himself that he needs to see her as a friend and only a friend - that's not the same as when both parties know only friendship is involved. I don't know many people that get 'over' someone else when they are actively involved in their life. From experience, when a guy was in love with me but I didn't return his feelings, he would just stay away and act cold. You get the message easily enough.

 

Over time, we were able to return to have normal conversation with no feelings on his side (or so I assume) upon an occasional meeting.

[t3nder_v1ttl3s]

I agree t3nder, but if he keeps having to convince himself that he needs to see her as a friend and only a friend - that's not the same as when both parties know only friendship is involved. I don't know many people that get 'over' someone else when they are actively involved in their life. From experience, when a guy was in love with me but I didn't return his feelings, he would just stay away and act cold. You get the message easily enough.

 

Over time, we were able to return to have normal conversation with no feelings on his side (or so I assume) upon an occasional meeting.

 

Oh believe me, I know what you are saying. I am totally that way. If I like a girl, I pretty much cannot be only friends with her. I have to be with her or stay away from her because it’s too difficult being around her and watching her chase other guys or date other guys knowing I really want to be that guy in her life. So I usually just stay away. But I think this girl may not even know he has these feelings for her or is seeing everything she does this way.

 

She may really think they’re just friends. Of course I don’t know the whole story. I’ve only seen a couple of posts from him on it. But the way he describes her behavior makes me think she’s totally oblivious to his feelings for her and simply sees him as a friend she likes hanging with, and she probably thinks he feels the same way. Unless there’s more details I am missing. I think his best bet is to confront her and get it over with. Then if she isn’t interested, just stay away from her so he can get over it. It’s hard at first but you are usually glad you did in the long run.

[Dougie_D]

Maybe I didn't tell the whole story. Would this change anything?

 

GIRL had mentioned the F-Buddy before but I didn't know at the time. She just said that sometimes she would pick him up to work. Carpool. She was joking about it too. Or it seemed like it.

 

One night I go to the bar alone and I RUN into the GIRL. She was with another guy. The guy and I talked briefly, and it was obvious this guy had never heard of me and he asked "so where did you come from?"...It was awkward for sure. I ended up being cool and just played pool. She talked to me for awhile. She even mentioned that we should get together again on a slower night and play some darts or pool. Anyways, after awhile, I noticed she DIDN'T even say good bye to me! I called her out on it the next time I saw her.

 

Well, the F-BUDDy is the guy that I had met at the bar. So maybe that's why she decided to mention it to me? It was the very NEXT time I saw her too. I don't know..whatever.

 

I have to admit. The reason why I still MAY have feelings for her is because I've never had this opportunity EVER. I've never been in a relationship.

 

I've never been in a position where the only guy she hangs out with is me...and NOT another one of MY friends. I never hung out with JUST the GIRL. It was always another guy there, where my female friend and the other guy seemed to have a better relationship.

 

Also, it's the ONLY girl that I really hang out with. In COLLEGE, I think this is where I screwed up. I never HUNG out with the same female/female group. I never had just a FEMALE friend. All of them became my friend by DEFAULT. I was friends with the boyfriend or another guy friend.

 

So with this girl...I'm really cautious because she is still single. Once she has a boyfriend, I'll be lonely and sad again, knowing I missed the boat.

 

It's VERY good practice too. It's just talking to a girl in general. She builds my confidence up in a way. As much as my girl roommate is annoying..that too, is great practice. I get a 2 for 1. It's a girl and a roommate. Both things that I'm not used to at all. I lived by myself in college and most of my 20's.

[BrowneyedMan]

Dougie, forget about this GIRL as a potential girlfriend !!!! ..she's not the one ! Even if she did suddenly reciprocate your interest, you'd be setting yourself up for heartache and pain with a person like that. ..keep her as a casual friend maybe (..I personally would not trust such a woman as a serious friend..). But just give up on the idea that anything's gonna happen with her.

 

You are too needy, dude. ..I understand why, given your past unsatisfying love life. But you want to work on eliminating that neediness. Being needy does not work in human relationships, and most certainly not in romantic relationships. ..all this is psychological, it's in your head, and has nothing to do with the women you meet. They only respond accordingly, as humans do when they come accross neediness in another. Being needy is never attractive and always off-putting !

 

You CAN have a loving relationship, with a woman who wants you !! ..but when you keep going for the wrong ones then you'll simply be blind to the right ones. ..and you repel all of them when you're as needy as you are. - and you are with women, I can tell.

 

Seriously, spend time on learning about healthy self-esteem and how to initiate and maintain healthy relationships. I think it's the only way you can turn your love-life around.

[Dougie_D]

I really don't think I'm NEEDY. I haven't even GOT it yet! Yes, I want to experience relationships, sex, etc... really, really, bad. How do I come off Needy and desperate? Apparently I do, but I don't understand where or how to fix it. What are the vibes I'm giving off? Is it how I look? How I talk? How I what??

 

I just uploaded a V-Blog... This is what I look like now. I think I dress alright too!

 

 

[BrowneyedMan]

I really don't think I'm NEEDY. I haven't even GOT it yet! Yes, I want to experience relationships, sex, etc... really, really, bad. How do I come off Needy and desperate? Apparently I do, but I don't understand where or how to fix it. What are the vibes I'm giving off? Is it how I look? How I talk? How I what??

 

I just uploaded a V-Blog... This is what I look like now. I think I dress alright too!

 

]

 

I really think you are, Doug... all the questions you ask, and how you're almost obsessed that this one particular GIRL should just want you and have sex with you, and the way you generally communicate on ENA (always asking for approval, etc.).. it just seems really needy to me.

How many people live in LA again ? wasn't it something like 18 million ? ..so, it's not like there aren't enough women to be found where you live.

 

I checked out your V-Blog as well. To give you some feedback on one of your recent concerns: I really think you look alright ! Well groomed, and it looks like you have a good/certainly sufficient awareness of style. You've got a 'look' going that represents you well I think. - imo, anyway.

 

But here's the thing the way you communicate, man... like, the words you choose and what you talk about and how... I'll be honest, if I were a woman (and actually, even as a man..) I'd be completely put off by it. I tell you why: like..the way you interject swearwords (like "ffokkin' this, ffokkin' that") that really mean nothing at all and just come accross as rude, aggressive and plain annoying... like you have no manners.

And above all, the stuff you talk about... come on, man... who do you seriously think would want to hear about how you thought how you wanted to shove your kno.b in some woman's mouth until you saw her mustache ?? I mean... WHAT ?!?!? And why on earth would you make a video on that ?!! - seriously, how do think that makes you look to women ? ..I believe any woman in her right mind would dash the other way.

 

I personally also feel you've got a very cocky, almost arrogant and condescending vibe about yourself, that is not only irritating but makes you come accross as inauthentic/fake. ...sorry to be hard on you here, but it's the impression I get from your video. And if you're like that with women, then.. where can she truly connect with you, and with what ?! And.. how is a guy who's cocky gonna make her feel comfortable to stick around, let alone, want a relationship with him ?!

 

Dude, you've got some serious serious work to do in the personality- and social competence departments !! ...how ? ..read up/educate yourself, as I said above (-get books on the subject.., ask here..), and then change your behaviour bit by bit. ..this forum is a good start (if you will only actually read and pay attention to what people say..). You can get a pretty good impression of what women want just by reading some of their threads on here, and noticing what they ask for, and how they respond.

 

Anyway, that's all I can say to your situation. Good luck !

[agent1607307371]

 

I just wish that she has GIRLFRIENDS for her to introduce me too!

 

Dougie, there's a reason all her friends are guys. It's because she likes feeling wanted. She isn't interested in you, or any of the guys, she just likes having you around to make her feel good about herself.

[Day_Walker]

I think that you should realize that this girl is just a friend (but doesnt seem like a good friend). It can be nice getting the attention you want (being invited places and all that) but this girl isnt showing interest other than that of a friend.

[Alezia]

Did you change the video, because I cannot hear any of these quotes. Your look has improved a lot, I can tell you that. You look much more put together.

[Dougie_D]

He's talking about the other videos...in the suggestion box. Those Videos were suppose to be funnier. I think most people would agree it was a joke.

 

Everyone is right about the girl. I've always thought she was just using me for "attention time". It sucks. I really wanted this to be different.

 

Yeah, I definitely have matured. I've been working on getting my * * * * together for sure. I am starting to become more serious in life. The only thing that I feel really down with is that I wish I had started being more serious earlier. Being 30 and not having anything going for you is not very good. College was definitely a waste of my life for sure. I wanted to drop out SO bad, but I couldn't. It's never been my money. It still isn't my money.

 

I'm just NOW learning the value of MONEY and being around the same PEOPLE.

[blueidealist24]

I really don't think I'm NEEDY. I haven't even GOT it yet! Yes, I want to experience relationships, sex, etc... really, really, bad. How do I come off Needy and desperate? Apparently I do, but I don't understand where or how to fix it. What are the vibes I'm giving off? Is it how I look? How I talk? How I what??

 

I just uploaded a V-Blog... This is what I look like now. I think I dress alright too!

 

]

 

You look good in the video and dress well. I think you could stand to lose 10 pounds but it's not essential. The only thing is you seem a little awkward, although I know a lot of people would get awkward taking a video of yourself. I think you seem needy on ENA since you're always posting and asking for relationship advice, that's why people think you're needy, but maybe that doesn't translate into real life.. I'm not sure since I've never seen you out with people..

[BrowneyedMan]

Did you change the video, because I cannot hear any of these quotes. Your look has improved a lot, I can tell you that. You look much more put together.

 

maybe this is me not being American/Californian and therefore not 'getting it', but the women I associate with (who are from very diverse backgrounds) wouldn't appreciate those kinds of jokes (like the shaving video). ..just saying...

Maybe Dougie would be interested in your feedback on that, Alezia (..and other women here). (?)

 

I'd say, go more for acting genuinely nice, mature, authentic and dignified, Doug. Women will respond to you differently then. ..just my two cents.

And sorry if my above post offended you. I didn't mean that.

As for your looks: I think you're looking good, dude. I think you can relax about that aspect, and focus now on your communication skills around women.

[Alezia]

What you have quoted was really crass to me too. I just didn't see it from my eyes, but I associate that to frat boy humour. Never was a fan of it myself. I do prefer a guy who has both a serious and a humorous side, but I usually like the funny side to have some type of substance behind it.

[jumper11]

She's trying to let you know you are friend-zoned. Yes, she's coming off as rude. I have primarily guy friends due to my interests and hobbies, and as soon as I pick up that the person likes me, I make it VERY clear of my intentions with that person - which is friendship - I also make this clear what my intentions are at the start. She's not being blunt enough. But I bet she knows you like her. She shouldn't let you buy everything. She should know #1. that she should not do that, it only fuels the emotions of the other person.

 

I wouldn't assume it's for attention, I don't have as many girlfriends and that's just how it is. 90% of my friends are men. But I also don't take advantage of these men, like she is of you. She is using you.