Want to win her back.

[kitten]

I'm a 25 year old guy, and I'd been dating a woman since the beginning of this year. Things were fantastic as far as I was concerned, and I knew she felt the same about me.

 

She broke up with me on July 5 for two reasons. Evidently, she felt I was always emotionally distant. It's a fair criticism, though I'd like to emphasise that I certainly wasn't that way on purpose, and didn't even realize it until recently, having had two weeks or so to really consider all the times she'd gone out of her way to be nice to me or get me excited about something and although I always appreciated her, I realize now that I never really expressed that appreciation. I can understand how several months of trying to draw someone out and get them to open up without much success would be trying.

 

I'll spare you all the litany of "Times I Should Have Said Something Nice But Didn't". Suffice to say there were many of these times.

 

The second reason is because I got it into my head that she was seeing someone else, and based on the information I had, it *was* a logical conclusion. Only my information turned out to be *very* incomplete and I see now that I was wrong. Unfortunately, having been cheated on in the past and not stood up for myself, I decided this time I would, so I barged into her apartment, made a snotty remark to her (waking her up in doing so) and left. This probably scared the living snot out of her, and understandably so.

 

I apologized profusely and made her see where I was coming from with that outburst, so I think she understands, but nevertheless, felt that my Mr Strong And Silent routine combined with that incident made me a twit not worth dealing with. She asked me to leave her alone for a few weeks.

 

So I did.

 

In the past few days she's been IM'ing me (we're just that type -- we hardly ever used the phone when we dated), and we haven't talked about anything very significant, just sort of small talk and trading links and stuff, but at least she's talking to me now. Please note that I do not initiate these conversations, as I'm trying to stay out of her face as she asked, but I'm always willing to talk to her.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling, but that's the backstory. The point here is that I want her back, and I want a chance to do it right this time. I can't erase what I did, and I can't make the past five months go away, but I've had a lot of time to think and assess myself and I understand all the things she had been trying to show me -- things I never understood when we were together.

 

My general idea is to use my upcoming birthday (Jul 27) as a sort of "icebreaker" excuse to take her out somewhere nice for dinner and keep the conversation *very* light-hearted and pressure-free, partially because I'd like to spend the evening with her and partially to show her that I'm capable of being something other than a moody punkass. A small gift that says "I made mistakes and I'm sorry" wouldn't hurt either -- thinking about folding origami roses for that. And then, at the end of the evening, giving her a little card that briefly (brevity is good, isn't it?) apologizes, and that expresses my wish to have more times like this with her, sort of a fresh start.

 

What do you think? Is this worth a try? Anyone have better ideas? How do I know if she's even still interested (or potentially interested)? My thinking is, obviously she thought I was worthwhile before, except for my lack of appreciation for her and for life, so maybe if I can change that, she'd be willing to try again.

 

I don't know. Thoughts?

[AMON]

Sounds like you messed up a little. I think it's a good idea to use the bday to get together - and just be honest and open once again as to how you are feeling about her. It takes a long time to build up that trust deposit account and one little assumption to destroy it... You need to regain her confidence in you and disclose more of you to her as oppose to the emotional distant one she first got to know. This is not going to be an easy ride though and it sounds like a long road with no guarantees.

 

Good luck!

[kitten]

Yeah. Well, I'm thinking that I really don't want to bring up or talk about our relationship, or how I feel for her -- I think that would just put this damp mood on the entire evening, when the idea is to show her that I'm a fun guy to be around, not a moody guy that hates life.

 

That's why I thought the card would be a good idea -- it would let her know what I thought and felt, but she could read it when she gets home, instead of having to sour the evening by discussing it.

 

I don't know exactly what the card will say. Something brief, but sincere. I just want her to know that I understand these things and I'd like to show her, and get a second chance to do things right this time.

[HCI]

good luck kitten!

[RayKay]

I think if you were in the wrong, it would not hurt to apologize, while being the fun guy you are - and you are right, don't talk about the relationship. It is up to HER to bring it up now, and when you respond, be cool & collected.

 

Good luck.

 

And, we have the same birthday! I am just turning 25 though

[kitten]

Actually, I'll be turning 25 as well. But since it's so close, it makes more sense to say I've been around for 25 years than 24, so at this point I just say I'm 25 for simplicity's sake.

[kitten]

The other day I asked her if she'd let me take her out for my birthday, and she gave me a "we'll see, I have two finals and two projects due that week", and hasn't mentioned it since (this was maybe two days ago, and my birthday is in three).

 

Should I bring it up again? I'm thinking no, I don't want to pester her, but then, I don't want her to forget that the invitation exists. I don't care if it's actually my birthday or not. She's busy, I understand that -- it can be any time, really. I just want to see her, and to show her that I'm a lot more open than I was.

 

Someone said handing her a card at the end of the evening (if we ever even get together) is a bad idea, like doing a good job at the office and then demanding recognition from your boss for it. The theory is, I suppose, that if I maintain a light-hearted attitude, she'll notice this on her own.

 

I guess my deal is, I want her to know exactly what I want to happen -- a second chance, to do things right this time. But maybe I should just let it happen and hope she'll realize that's what I want? I have no idea.

[DaniNYC21]

Kitten I think it may be time for you to start putting yourself out there. There are obviously many things that this girl wanted to hear from you but hasn't...so maybe it is time that you say them. It sounds to me like she is frustrated with you and wants you to put yourself out there....fight for her so to speak. Every one else may disagree but I feel as though you should talk about your relationship and how you feel about her. At this point I don't think you have much to lose.

[kitten]

I don't know. I feel like this should be a "show, don't tell" situation. I'd be more than willing to talk about it with her if she brought it up, but even then I wouldn't want to give a blow-by-blow account of every time I screwed up with my indifference. That's why I figured that showing her a nice time, and that I can be a more open guy, would be better than trying to talk about it (at least at first), because that would just make me seem like a dwelling-on-the-past, oh-look-how-much-i-suck idiot.

 

I just can't think of a good way to broach the subject in any event. "Hey, I've had a lot of time to think about things and I realize you were right the whole time and I was a blind fool." *I* have no problem with saying that, especially since it's true, but.. I don't know. I don't want conversations with her to degenerate into a "who did what to whom" game of accusations, apologies, etc.

 

I just want a way to be able to acknowledge that I was wrong and that I am changing because of this, and for her to really understand that. I want her to see, without me having to spell it out for her, that other than my indifference, we were superb together, and if I can change that, we could be again. A new start, a second chance to do things right this time.

 

The first step, of course, is *meeting* her. IM conversations about trite topics is all we've had so far, and I'm certainly not going to do this kind of thing online. I figured that showing her a nice time would be the right start, and maybe after two or three more accounts of spending time together, I could.. what? Ask for another chance? Wouldn't that come off as needy?

 

Clearly, I barely know what I'm talking about. All these little scenarios in my mind of when to discuss this, how to bring up that, what possible reactions would be.

 

And I still haven't heard anything back from her about my little invitation. I'm beginning to think she's just going to blow it off entirely. If she isn't interested, she could say so. Or if she's just going to be too busy, she could say that. I just hate being left hanging, having no idea what she wants.

[kitten]

You know, I have another issue. Specifically, the guy I assumed she was cheating on me with -- she met him at work, and as she needed a roommate, he moved in. That moving-in bit is a rather vital piece of information that I didn't have when I caused my little scene, because I assumed he was over there for more nefarious purposes.

 

I am willing to admit that I was probably wrong about the whole situation then, but it keeps preying on my mind. Every time she's online and goes idle, I have these visions that she got dragged away from the computer by him to do god-knows-what. I imagine them watching TV together, eating together, etc, and thinking that even if I was wrong about it then, what if it's happening now?

 

It's driving me insane.

[kitten]

Well..so like I said, I asked her a few days ago if she'd be willing to let me take her somewhere for my birthday, and got the "We'll see, I have finals that week, etc".

 

I didn't hear anything else from her on that topic and I didn't bring it up again until today (my birthday), so I IM'd her and said "I know you're busy, but I want you to know my invitation still stands. If you're interested, it can be whenever you want, maybe after finals."

 

She barely even acknowledged that she'd heard me, and immediately started talking about something totally unrelated.

 

I understand that she has no obligation to go anywhere or do anything with me, but.. I feel I deserve an answer one way or the other. If she's not interested, she could have said no. Or if she is, she could have said yes, or I'm too busy but later this week, or *anything*. Instead, she basically ignored the invitation.

 

So my question now is, what should I do?

 

I kind of feel like I should tell her I'm a bit upset about this -- not that she didn't go anywhere, but that she left me totally hanging.

 

On the other hand, confrontation is bad, especially with her, and I certainly don't want things to degenerate into accusations and other BS. Our conversations have so far been light and I want to keep it that way.

 

But goddammit, it isn't fair to ignore someone that way -- ex or not.

 

My other option is to go back to No Contact, although I'm not really sure what that would get me. It seems sort of petty, like giving someone the silent treatment because you're mad at them, instead of just telling them what's on your mind.

 

I know I screwed up with this girl, but I also know exactly what I did wrong, and if she gave me the chance to prove it, I know things could work. I don't want to have to play this tap-dancing game of "should i stay or should i go". If she's not ready to see me in person yet, she should just say so, not ignore me.

 

I am totally confused and have no idea what to do about this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[kitten]

Shameless self-promotion since nobody has responded...

 

 

 

She's IM'd me a couple of links today and yesterday as her way of starting some kind of small-talk. The usual pointlessness, I guess. I haven't responded so far.

 

I would really like some insight into this. Anyone?

[AMON]

Kitten

Sounds like she now needs her space. Just let it be and contact her in a month or so... she is definitely not engaging and you are probably going to do more damage than good to both you and her.

 

Let it be and if it is meant to it will.... but do make friendly contact in 4 weeks or so...

 

Best of luck.

[single30]

i'm sorry, but it sounds to me like she might be moving on for now, and perhpas you should do the same. Based on her recent actions and what she said to you in the past, I think that is a safe assumption for now. If you go ahead and move on, and she changes her mind... who knows, maybe you will be interested, but if you keep hanging on... and she is not interested, its going to hurt pretty badly.

Happy Birthday.

d

[kitten]

Yeah. Others have also suggested that I should just lay off for a while.

 

Trouble is, I really don't know what "lay off" means. Should I stop responding to her IMs altogether?

 

Also, why would she keep things relatively friendly by IM'ing me all the time to chitchat and make small talk, but *completely* ignore me when I invite her somewhere? Again, a simple "I don't want to see you" or "No thanks" would have sufficed -- I guess I just don't understand the point of acting like you didn't even hear the question.

[Mr. Six]

Obviously she still wants you in her life. She still has some residual feelings for you even if she implies that she has "moved on". If you haven't apologised for the barging in then incident...then do that. Write it as a hand written letter and send it to her. Don't say anything about the relationship. Just offer her your friendship (you want more but we'll start off here) and say you're sorry for barging in and making her think you were a complete psycho (I know you're not, but in this instance a little exagerration won't go astray). If you want, get her a nice friendly present and send the complete package to her. Just say thanks for everything and I want this gift to be a token of my appreciation.

 

I say disappear off the face of the planet after sending the package. Don't use the IMs anymore and get on with life. I'll promise you, she'll be thinking about you because this is probably a unexpected actions from you. You have given her the space she wants and you've flattered her ego...so you've done your bit. It's up to her to make her move. She'll

ring or try to find you, so you've got to be cool. It's time to get happy, because you've mended your fence and this is where the "change" begins. Be confident! You're in this to win! Your life is better than anything the other guy can offer! It's her choice.

[kitten]

That doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I already wrote her a letter, about two days after it all happened; a three-page missive about how I know I was a complete idiot for barging in like that, and what I was thinking when I did (wanted her to know where I was coming from).

 

I also included some stuff about how I really do appreciate her, and acknowledgements about what an idiot I was for not expressing that to her.

 

I finally wrapped it up with, essentially, "Let's talk this out and see where it takes us."

 

Her reply was that although the letter was clearly heartfelt, my appreciation for her was basically too little, too late. Not her exact words, but that was the definite meaning. That, and she didn't want to talk things out right then (understandable), and maybe in a month or two she'd be willing to help me deal with my issues (as a "friend", I assume -- zero indication that this breakup was temporary or anything).

 

Anyway, the reason I'm telling you all this is because I'm kind of at my wit's end. Writing her a letter would seem redundant, although admittedly there is more I could say to her, having had quite a long time to think about things.

 

Problem is I don't know if it would come off as needy and desperate, or what, or if she'd even care. I really want the opportunity to *show* her that I understand what went wrong, and to *show* her that I'm not the indifferent cold guy she thought I was. ANyone can say it and write it in a letter, but I could really show her -- if she'd let me.

 

After the initial letter, I stopped talking to her as she requested. A few days later she was IM'ing me for small talk. And that's just the way it's been ever since -- she'll IM me, not every day but almost, and I'll respond, and nothing really goes anywhere.

 

I'm getting long-winded so let me wrap this post up: One possible thing to do is, I don't know, avoid talking to her at all for a week or so, then drop her a letter and a little gift, and then step back to see what happens.

 

I realize that you people don't have all the details, but maybe you know enough at this point to answer this question: What on earth would my letter say? Also: What would be an appropriate gift to say "I made mistakes"? Something highly personalized, or something generic like a rose, or.. what?

[Mr. Six]

Kitten,

I say lay off trying to get back into her heart for the time being. Don't even try to think about her. I know it's hard, because I struggle with it too and it's been ages since I crashed and burned, but I'm still in this race. I just don't want anyone to see me as a threat. I want everyone to get really comfortable with their life. Lull everyone into a sense of security and that it's over. It's only then, will your girl bring down all her defences and you'll be able to talk to her as a normal human being.

 

Now, after say 5 weeks of just cutting all ties, you send the package via snail mail. In the letter, you will not chastise her for all the things you've done; you will keep it brief and friendly; the present should be something that is completely neutral, cool and something close to her heart. Check out the girl's interests and have a close attention to deal. What music does she like? Has she been eyeing off a dress? What did she like when you guys were together? No teddy bears or anything romantic. Something simple and says like your letter: Let's be close friends. After this, as before cut the contact. I'm sure she'll be thinking about you.

[kitten]

So.. I haven't talked to her since Tuesday (it is now Sunday). This is out of my choosing, but it was made *slightly* easier because she hasn't been online much since then.

 

As a little experiment, however, I set up what's known as a "link trap". It's something I insert in my AIM away message that looks like a link and directs the visitor to any site I choose, but I have a means of accessing who clicked on it and when.

 

So, she got online today, and about ten minutes later, I put up my away message. Within one minute she'd clicked on it.

 

Yes, yes, I know, this cloak-and-dagger stuff is immature and facile. Sue me.

 

My question is.. is there any meaning to this at all? I mean, I'm kind of hoping it means she's still thinking about me and wants to see what I'm up to, given her almost immediate checking of my Away message...

 

I'm also liking Mr Six's idea of dropping a short note and a small gift to her. Problem is that her birthday is near the end of August, and I want to make it clear that the gift and note are *not* related to that, but are instead my sincere efforts. Does that make sense?

[Mr. Six]

Just send it as a birthday gift. You have a nice excuse for sending her stuff. I think she will take it even easier if it's her birthday. But keep the distance. Be a spy if you want to and she's thinking about you, but don't crack.

[kitten]

I just realized another snag in this idea.

 

I have absolutely no idea what her address is.

 

That may sound dumb, but I never really had any reason to know it. I knew how to drive there, and that's all the information I ever needed.

 

The only way I could find out her address to mail her anything would be to drive there, walk up the three flights of stairs, and check out which apartment number is hers.

 

Unfortunately that would make me look like a complete psychopath stalker. And even if I didn't get caught, the temptation to actually *be* a stalker (e.g., by peering in the window to see what I can see) would be tremendous. Note that I'm not *looking* for that opportunity, but if I was standing right there to find her address, well, you know.

 

I was thinking I could go at some obscene hour of the night when I wouldn't get caught, but she keeps odd hours. And if I was hanging around at 5 in the morning, that would look bad, to put it mildly... the bottom line is I can't think of any legitimate reason to go over there.

 

I suppose I could be *real* tricksy and send a friend over there and act like "Oops, wrong apartment" if caught. But really, all I want to do is send her a gift, not turn this ito some kind of James Bond movie.

 

As a side, her Away message currently reads "dude you are a sexy b*tch", which I doubt is meant for me, which worries me even further. That's not the type of Away she'd normally have anyway, making me fret even more.

 

Yay overanalysis.

[Mr. Six]

I think she's messing with your mind for one thing.

 

I say just deliver it to her place a couple of days before her birthday in person. Ring her up before hand to let her know, and so you don't look like a complete psycho turning up unexpectedly. Don't get drawn into a long $h!tfight of a conversation. Keep it short and sweet.

 

Just act cool about it. Don't tell her there's a letter inside or anything....just say "Happy Birthday! Hope you have a great time" and be your old chipper self. Give her the gift and say "I've got to get going". The excuse can be anything plausible. Leave it at that and I know the temptation is there to escalate it but leave it be.

 

This is yonks away though. Get out of the house and do something. Go to the gym and work out man. Live the goodlife and make yourself see what she's missing.

[kitten]

Why do you think she's messing with my mind?

 

I mean, my mind IS messed up from what she's doing, yes.. but why do you think she's doing it deliberately?

[Mr. Six]

You're doing the cloak and dagger thing yeah?

 

Well, this is her response. She's trying to get a reaction out of you, but in a just ambiguous way. Ofcourse she'll deny what she's doing...but everyone has a reason for doing what they do. I'm pretty certain she knows what she's doing as IMs were your preferred form of communication.

[kitten]

True, true. And if I'm right her seeing someone else, then there'd be little reason to bother putting something like that up for him, because there's no reason they'd be using IM to talk.

 

Still, I have no way of knowing it was for me, either.

 

Plus, since we haven't talked in five days or so, why would she put such a message up *now*? Odd timing, and I can't see any reason for it.

 

I dunno. Like I said, overanalysis. This sort of thing is stupid -- I honestly believe there are few problems that can't be solved, one way or another, through the open and honest communication of the parties involved.

 

It really irks my worldview that people have to resort to little games and tricks and stunts like this. Of course, for my utopian idea to work, both people have to be *willing*, which is, I suppose, why they'd rather play silly games.

 

So lemme ask you or anyone else -- what sort of message is she trying to convey with that? Or, what kind of reaction is she trying to provoke?