12 Year age gap difference and other more general problems...

[Shepard]

I am not really sure where to start as this is quite a bit to write and the situation is fairly complicated as well but I suppose I should start at the beginning.

 

Several months ago I was teaching at a private language school and there was a girl in one of my classes. I thought she was cute, but never much beyond that A) for work reasons and B) she was 12 years younger than I am (33, 21). But when the course ended she herself ended up asking me out for a drink; I thought, what’s the harm in that, it’s being social (something I rarely am) so I just went along and we ended up hanging out the entire night until 2AM or thereabouts. For the next few weeks we just hung out on a friendly basis and I just assumed that was it (because women always give mixed signals). Now at some point in time I had grown very fond of her (always thought she was pretty) and I ‘confessed’ my feelings and she in turn did as well. The thing was, however, that both she and I had made very separate plans for ourselves for the coming year (because we hadn’t known each other and hadn’t planned on anything like this). Eventually we decided to become a couple.

 

Now, as for background information, I had been single (though not necessarily chaste) for years and this is the first female I have strong feelings for in maybe 6 or 7 years. She on the other hand, has only had one boyfriend before and is still a virgin. In addition, she is Korean, but has lived in the US for several years and her English is pretty good (though sometimes as I mention below there are communication problems, though I am not sure if they are solely language based). Plans wise, she will be going to Germany to do a year abroad and I am moving to London to do a 2nd Masters Degree. And right now she is visiting her family in Korea so I haven’t seen her in over a week and she doesn’t come back until the end of August and I myself am leaving the end of September, so all in all not much time, which in turn leads to one of the ‘problems’ (depending on how you see it).

 

We have only been together for a few weeks (though were friends for a while before that) and yet we will not be seeing each other for quite some time in the near future, just as I can’t see her now since she is in Korea and already I find the distance grating and difficult to take, still worse since we are in a beginning phase (it would be rather different if we had a year or more of each other’s company before this departure), hence it is a very bad starting position. Distance relationships usually never work in my experience but...yeah, on to the real problems if you will...but with the caveat that I adore her to bits and care for her deeply.

 

I am a hardened, cynical mid thirties guy; experience has taught me that relationships never last and in this situation I cannot help but think that a 21 year girl still has much to experience from life (for example she doesn’t like it when I talk about my past or ‘our’ future). I am not looking to have kids or anything any time soon but I am interested in a long term committed relationship but that is a lot to ask of a 21 year old and based on observation it is almost impossible to expect this of a 21 year old girl. Sure, she could be an exception but what are the chances? Even overlooking the fact that no relationship survives the ravages of time, how could one of such age difference? I am not saying that I will give up, far from it, much of the nicer things in life are Sisyphean in nature. That is, ultimately, what we humans do. Still, having a relationship that is at the very least predicated on such an idea would be a nice start, reality be damned. Am I so off the mark in my estimation that a 21 year old can really handle the concept of long term? I am just realistic and cautious, I believe. What are people’s opinions here?

Another problem is more my problem, than hers. Being an ‘old man’ at 33, I have had my share of experiences (I reckon all of us 30 somethings have) and as a consequence, have accumulated baggage, which despite my best efforts, is very difficult to rid myself of. Part of that baggage is a fundamental inability to trust any human being, more specifically those of female persuasion. I call into question everything my girlfriend tells me because in the past such statements have always amounted to naught but fluff; all my past girlfriends have either cheated on me, lied to me, had psychological disorders and in one case tried to run me over and cut my penis off, yet another reason I adore my current girlfriend because she SEEMS psychologically sound and stable, which is a rare commodity in this day and age. Still, people are fickle. She tells me such sweet things, of course I want to believe her but my background, coupled with the facts of human nature render me disinclined to truly believe, as if I were merely holding my breath, waiting for the moment of betrayal or caprice on her part. All human relationships need to have some basis in trust, yet human nature and behaviour do nothing to warrant or encourage such trust so it is a bit of a conundrum. I wonder sometimes if others have this problem of mistrust as well?

 

Then, there are minor things. The other day on Skype we were chatting and I don’t remember how it came up but I asked my girlfriend if she found me attractive, to which she replied, looks don’t matter and we all get old. I was hurt and thought it was odd. The she said ‘I wasn’t ugly’. Now, I am not exactly a senior citizen and I think it is a normal feeling to want to be desired by one’s partner and found attractive. She is always emphasising how well she can talk to me and my inner qualities, as if she needed to overlook external things. I think she is beautiful on the outside and the inside. But in all seriousness, would anyone want to hear from the partner, that he/she considered you ‘not ugly’? I wonder if it is the language barrier or perhaps just some inability to express things properly. I know she likes me for my caring and generous nature but I just can’t get past the ‘not ugly’ part. It didn’t help when she told me of the kinds of guys she usually likes and then said that ‘no one can ever hold and hug me the way you do’. Great, but I am still just ‘not ugly’, which in turn caused my doubts to rise and began to wonder if desired a physical relationship with me at all, given such statements, to which she replied she did. Afterwards, the only thing she could say was that I had beautiful eyes and that she could not be attracted to a guy just based on appearance and I feel the same way but I find my girlfriend to have a good personality and to be very attractive. She is always saying how different I am to all the other guys, which she claims, hinders her ability to describe things but seriously; ‘I don’t think you are ugly’ is not exactly what I want to hear from my girlfriend, maybe a friend but not my girlfriend. She couldn’t understand why I felt hurt. But it basically comes down to me being so different to everything else she has ever known, especially compared to other guys. Am I crazy for wanting my girlfriend to think I am handsome? I guess when someone writes something like this:

 

"but height doesnt matter. no one can EVER hug like you do.

no one can EVER hold me like you and show me your warmth..."

(note: I am 5’9”, so not tall but also not a midget; she is 5’8”, so pretty close)

 

It means something but to have my physical appearance dismissed in that manner just hurt.

 

Then, there is the sex thing. I honestly don’t care. I haven’t had good sex in over a decade so it doesn’t really matter to me but we did talk about it and I felt I had to bring up birth control as in if and when it happens. I told her that I willing to use condoms for a while but I never feel anything and have never had an orgasm with a condom on, also I sometimes have trouble staying hard with condoms. I said in the long run I would really appreciate it if she would consider some kind of birth control. I have been out of the loop for a while so I don’t know what is available but if anyone knows something or has information I would appreciate it. If worse came to worse I could always use condoms, I could just masturbate (been doing for years)...is it unreasonable of me to ask her to consider birth control in the long run?

 

Anyway, I would appreciate assessments of the situation if anyone is so inclined. Thanks a bunch and have a good day.

[Fudgie]

Okay, well I'm not going to tell you what to do but I'm going to give you some advice/things to think about.

 

A 21 year old may or may not want a long-term relationship. Everyone is different. Just because she is 21 doesn't mean she wants to party hardy.

 

A 12 year gap is big but it can work if you're willing to make it work, as well as her. There will be extra challenges. I think the big issue here is that you're going separate ways so soon. How is that going to work out? Will you be able to handle the distance? What about her? I have no idea what she's like when it comes to that or what she's like a a person so I can't comment.

 

I'm 20 myself and my boyfriend is 58. We are in a long term relationship. Things like this aren't impossible but I am inclined to say that they are "out of the norm".

 

Every man wants to be told that he's attractive inside and out. Who knows, maybe she's not really physically attracted to you or she's just shy to say it? I have no clue. I can see why you'd be hurt though. Maybe you can tell her that your feelings are hurt. Just be honest and hope it gets through. I have a gut feeling that it has to do with her own feeling toward you, not the "communication" barrier.

 

Other age gap issues to think about:

does she want kids?

what about the future? can she handle society's "comments"?

 

I think it's a little early to be talking about birth control with her. Don't put the cart before the horse, ya know? Doesn't sound like you've even started or prepared to have sex yet. Don't pressure her.

There are many methods available to her...the Pill, cervical caps, diaphragm, IUD, stuff like that. If you want more details, PM me or just look online. There are lots of things she can do.

 

Good luck.

[Shepard]

Well, I would never bring up kids....I don't want them now, but maybe in 5 or 6 years...I don't know. Putting all of that down on the table now would be a bit much...I guess with the distance time will tell; either it will work or it won't....I find the distance horrible right now, especially since we just started. Counting down the days until I pick her up at the airport...kind of lame and not really a way to live...or love.

[lifestooshort]

I agree that the distance seems the most immediate hurdle to overcome, but it could also be a good way of taking it slow and getting to know each other... I'm still young enough to be optimistic that distance can work for the right people, but it can certainly become a barrier. There's even the danger of getting used to the distance.

 

As for the communication concerns, I find that even the minor things can build up if not addressed early on. You say you chatted over Skype - is this text only, or with video? A lot of things can be misinterpreted, even when talking face to face. If some things don't feel right, don't be afraid to ask for clarification - you could even joke about it to see if she'll elaborate. It could just be that "not ugly" is a direct translation of a Korean phrase or something. I know in Chinese, there is a similar phrase that could be translated like that, and it's certainly not meant as an insult, it may be a matter of understanding her personality and style of thinking. There are also some people who are not very tactful in conversations, even if they don't mean anything by it and are friendly otherwise.

[Shepard]

I think I f*cked up royally...I was just chatting with her...and I told her about my fears, etc...especially my fear that the age thing, that she will still have so much to experience and well, I have already had those experiences. I care for her so much and it seems like it is driving me to push her away from me. I don't think this would all be happening if I could just see her and talk to her instead of using a piece of plastic crap....at the end she just kept on asking me if she could go....so she could think on her own. I feel quite scared now...I fear, she will come back and give it all the boot....

[Tanzi]

I can understand why you would have certain fears as regards the age gap, especially as your girlfriend is only 21 but, judging from your posts above, it seems the distance is the major issue you have here and, as lifetooshort said, is the most immediate hurdle to overcome.

 

You have to ask yourself if you are prepared to give this relationship a proper go. All relationships have to be worked at ... its just that some need more work than most. If you are prepared to take on that work then you have to accept the distance and take on more of a positive approach and not let the distance be to much of an issues. Accept it as part of your relationship.

 

Once you have established that you are going to continue on in the relationship you can then work on the other issues together. By that I mean working on building a strong relationship that will help you to know whether the age gap or her age are ever going to be a problem.

 

Age gap relationships can work. An twenty-one year old can be mature enough to settle down but, as in all relationships, only time will tell if you two are meant to be together. There are no guarantees in any relationship. Yes, you have slightly more issues working against you that a lot of relationships but there is a risk embarking on any new relationship, issues or no issues.

 

My boyfriend is 15 years younger than me. Right from the very beginning I had intense feelings for him. The age gap alone would not have been so much of a problem but with me being the older one we weren't even in a conventional age gap relationship. I did a lot of worrying in the beginning but I began to relax as our relationship went on and I began to believe in his feelings for me. Our relationship has gone from strength to strength. I can understand the fears you have as regards the age gap but to be able to overcome your fears and to work out whether your relationship is worth taking that risk for, you are first going to have decide whether you can overcome the distance and to not look at it as such a negative otherwise you are doomed right from the start.

[sweetpea03]

Not all 21 year old love to party, it all depends on the person. I'm 21, with my boyfriend who is 31 in a long term relationship. Personally, I doubt that it is the language barrier as to why she said you are "not ugly" as compared to saying you look handsome. My boyfriend is from Mexico and speaks 'ok' English, which can put a strain on the relationship, but he can express himself clearly. From how you have described it, I don't think she has the same feelings you do. I get the feeling you are on different pages. Long distance relationships are very difficult and it doesn't seem she is very confident in how this will go. I would take a step back and not put too much pressure on her. Time will tell how it'll all work out.

[MsMargarita]

HI Shepard,

thought I MUST write here. I am 20 myself and my boyfriend is exactly 12 years older and he was a teacher when we got together, too. it is our second year together and we were living together. originally, he had a plan to go to Japan for a long time, but because of me he did not(we had been together for several month before this though) i'm from a dif country too so i go home for holidays.

We had a lot of problems because of the age gap and difference in experience (i was a virgin when we met) but there hasn't been anything we couldn't overcome so far. There is a lot to learn at this age of course, and i know what she means saying you are different from all the other guys. This means she likes it that you are older and more experienced, wiser and more reliable. If so, If she is attracted to such qualities, it is possible to say that there is a fair chance she is that 'rare' 21 yo that can handle a mature relationship.

Her comment about your appearance, I think you are being a bit oversensitive here. I sometimes tell my bf about his wrinkles and get him to exercise harder, but i never mean it in an offensive way, although he is sensitive. i mean it doesn't prevent us from being much in love with each other. Maybe this wouldn't work for you though. But you are more aged than her, aren't you, even if you look young?

As for birth control, she should come to it herself in some time, wouldn't she want to make your experiences (and her subsequently) better? You said you have already let her know of your problem, this should be enough.

If neither of you can change your future plan, i would suggest you risk a long distance relationship, you are not losing much anyway. And it sounds like you are very happy together, you might regret a wrong decision especially if you haven't felt this way for ages and are willing to even accept condoms though you don't like them!

Of course people differ much, but not giving it a chance may turn out to be a thing you resent. Hope it helps a bit.

[Shepard]

Update:

 

Things were better and then bad stuff happened again last night...

 

We were skyping and she asked about me, personal stuff and I needed to be honest. It started off by us talking about our interests and passions and I was honest and told her that I didn't really have too many these days, at this age, which I suppose if part of my world view; I am not so sure. Then She wanted to know how that all happened and I told her about my past, the women, many of whom where abusive, physically or otherwise. The whole conversation kind of degenerated from there. I was on edge, hadn't got much sleep and she made a joke that I overreacted to; she said; well, you might not have many passions now but worrying is definitely a passion of yours. I know this is a negative quality of mine but I was feeling vulnerable and was very hurt by it. I told her and then she told me I always make her feel bad. It was a disaster; the conversation degenerated more and more and she kept on pushing me away. She told me she couldn't get all those past women out of her head...I had no idea what to say to that. It was really late my time...and I needed to go to bed. I didn't sleep last night. I am very sensitive and when I feel emotionally down or charged, everything is affected. She then said she didn't want to skype anymore or talk for the whole week until i picked her up from the airport. I was shocked and scared. I didn't know what to say. Skype is horrible; everything seems to go wrong. Then she said she wanted time to herself to think about things and all the old doubts and dreads came back because usually what follows is a breakup line or email or some crap like that...I have told her numerous times that the most important thing for me in a relationship is to be sure of my partner's feelings because in the past my ex gfs were emotionally volatile and I was always walking on eggshells, never who where I stood and as a consequence I am very sceptical and doubtful...I need(ed) her to reassure me. Here is a snippet:

 

 

 

How can I react positively to this? I just don't know...and not talking for a week? The distance is bad enough but not talking for a week will make it work. She almost never goes on the vid cam so I barely can remember what she looks like...it all just seems doomed. I just feel so horrible, knots in my stomach...I don't know.

 

I was single for so many years before this; was emotionally dead, never found a girl I liked and she seemed to change that in me but....it seems doomed now. Yeah, the distance plays a large part, barely togethr for a few weeks and then she is gone for three weeks. Maybe it is my fault. I don't know. I tried to tell her that relationships take work and that it is not always cheery and rosy...somehow I want to go back to being a soulless husk; life was easier, simpler. Feeling is so....difficult and hard. I want to go back to being empty...it was all easier.

 

Note: I think I am too intense, maybe too fast...realising that now. I am going too fast....for her and it is in part the age thing...dunno.

[Fudgie]

Yikes.

 

Wait, I thought you guys were on Skype? Or do you guys only using chat on there, not actually talking to each other? That's your problem. Chat is so easy to misinterpret.

 

She's worried about your past. If she can't deal with it, as in, accept that you have had a past with women, then she can't be in an age gap relationship. Give her time but it sounds like she's unable to handle it. That's understandable - she's young.

 

You guys overreact to each other constantly. You're passionate and intense and want answers and she's wishy-washy, vague, and has communication problems. It all sounds really volatile. I'm not sure how things are going to go but I'll be honest - it doesn't seem good.

[NightLily]

No advice to give but if those are your first and last names you should remove them or get them removed by a moderator.

[Shepard]

No advice to give but if those are your first and last names you should remove them or get them removed by a moderator.

 

I tried editing it out but I can't as I already edited it once.....

[Shepard]

Yikes.

 

Wait, I thought you guys were on Skype? Or do you guys only using chat on there, not actually talking to each other? That's your problem. Chat is so easy to misinterpret.

 

She's worried about your past. If she can't deal with it, as in, accept that you have had a past with women, then she can't be in an age gap relationship. Give her time but it sounds like she's unable to handle it. That's understandable - she's young.

 

You guys overreact to each other constantly. You're passionate and intense and want answers and she's wishy-washy, vague, and has communication problems. It all sounds really volatile. I'm not sure how things are going to go but I'll be honest - it doesn't seem good.

 

We do skype but...when she feels uncomfortable she switches to chat and turns off call, also doesn't let me see her most of the time. It's one of the reasons she doesn't want to use skype anymore, because everything gets misread.

 

I think I am too intense. I need to be less intense and more easy going...we haven't known each other that long so it is probably best that I slow down...I think I am pushing her away and maybe I am not being understanding to where she is coming from. Maybe I need to put myself in her head; scared, foreign, 21, no real experience. Well, I still supposed to pick her up at the airport....but there will be a week gap of no communication inbetween. I intend to tell her just that, that I have been to 'rushy'. I need to cool off and let things progress naturally, instead of simply wanting them too. I will tell her that but hey, maybe she will arrive and end it there. No idea. Maybe we should just hang out and do activities for a while...still I am leaving at the end of September...I don't really know. I think I need to be less headstrong and intense, which goes against my nature but...and maybe more positive as well...not sure. Have a week to think about it....](*,)

[Fudgie]

Well that's odd. Why won't she let you "see" her often on skype? How often do you guys talk?

 

There's nothing wrong with being passionate/intense. Maybe you just need to find someone who can like you being yourself. She's asian, correct? Consider that she may come from a culture which encourages women to be more subdued.

 

My opinion is that she just sounds really uncomfortable with it all. It also doesn't sound like she has the same feelings as you do, or at least to the same degree.

 

I would think long and hard about this.

[NightLily]

I tried editing it out but I can't as I already edited it once.....

 

If you send an email to a moderator, they can do it for you

[jim1977]

I am passing through the same experience. I am 33 male and I like an asian girl is 22. But I turn into 34 next month, so it is about 12 years. I never talk about age gap to her but it is a kind of painful thing stucked in mind. (im not english native, so maybe it is confusing to read me).

As everyone understand the age gap interfere mainly with morality and experience of one own life. Said it simple, morality is the "art" of know if something is good or bad, in actions we should say if something is well done or "bad done"? (how to say in english?) I hope can understand me.

In my opinion, you have to consider 2 issues very related to age gap. with no intention to lecture, as I said one is morality, that should be a kind of general standart for people or firends, but it can be remold again between 2 people that want to keep a relationship. And second is experience... if you got a device than can messure your experience in life or better say... emotional experience, between London, -you said? and korea, most probably the amount of experience accumulated in the same age can be really different.

I have been living my whole life in menorca, that is an island of 50km long and i have been speding time with few friends that can understand my way to be. i do not like to go out so my emotional experience is very short compared to the people of my same age.

My experience in china is giving me new hints that I never have been passing through before. As I've seen, Chinese culture is mainly founded of family needs, and they devote time to emotions and future serious relationship before we may used to expect to consider.... there, very young people want to get marry, meanwhile we are just willing to have a long time to enjoy freedom... chinese people see their habits as a very common and usual, so they talking level about this topic is more natural as well as they can be more shy. however is more mature in this aspect of life because they are expected to get marry, as it is a social condition.

However I am sure the mentality in korea is pretty similar because it has the culture legacy of the present in china. If this girl want something serious with you is because you are a good person, you talking about things that she will see important and you focus your worries as something to be aware. but you do not need to talk about it too long... just sometimes when it comes up something is hard to handle. you have to think that, in a relationship, if the age gap is not in between there are more things that come up anytime, as culture difference. Then you can blame on just to avoid closer guilty feelings. there are many barriers than can be seen as something to blame on, instead of blame yourself hardly, so the relationship itself in your case or mine, in fact is more easy going sometimes.

Just try to see what is good or not. If you want a serious relationship with her, keep things simple, keep her healthy young and beauty, then the day you pass away she still can enjoy having another man.

If you need to contact me let me know and I will give you my skype.

 

Good luck!