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hot and cold relationship, she wont stop dating sites


j1970

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i am 40 and have been dating a 31 yr old woman for the past couple years. the relationship has been hot from her side (let's get pregnant right now, let's get married right now) and cold (i hate you, i don't love you, etc.) and been on & off.

 

background on her: she was sexually abused by her father during childhood. also, she married young and had a couple kids, and we met too soon after her divorce. she admits to having trust issues, i.e. every guy she's loved has ended up hurting her. she has anger problems, i.e. she gets very angry and often she breaks up with me immediately and jumps on the dating sites instantly -- she acts out anger rather than talking through it with me. later she makes up, but never apologizes for her behavior or reassures me that she will stop the behavior. she has two young kids. she has problems communicating her feelings.

 

background on me: i have my own abandonment issues and infidelity is my only hot button. i have had commitment issues in the past, but i really have committed myself to this woman and want things to work. i rejected her "situation" (having two kids) at the beginning of our relationship, and we broke up for a few months while she dated another guy, but she came back to me and i accepted her situation. i don't know if she ever truly got over the initial rejection and forgave me.

 

background on us: we usually get along great. sex is the best i've had, and the best she's had. when we go places, she is very proud of me. i get along with her family, her kids love me, and her "new" friends like me too. I say "new" friends because we went through a difficult period more than a year ago, and her "old" friends were poisoned to me.

 

i am a computer guy, and use her laptop web browser sometimes when i see her, and have caught her on dating sites and stuff like that. we all know that if you look and find, you're guilty of looking, but i feel that if you're having trust issues and don't look, you may end up catching a incurable STD from a cheating girlfriend. and i realize that without trust and honesty, there is no relationship. each time i forgive her and start to trust her again, she goes back to the dating sites.

 

this month, for example, she asked me to move in with her, and i was reluctant because I wanted to know that she was really committed to me and our relationship. she pressured me a bit to move in, but when things didn't get moving quickly, she said she felt i would "never" move in (despite telling her what i needed from her first), and she jumped onto the dating sites again.

 

it's like this - she signs up for dating site, then has an awesome time with me and doesn't use it, but if i discover it (and its obvious), then she feels like she is being controlled. she herself believes that its not right to be in a relationship and be on the dating sites (this is one of the questions on okcupid). if she feels controlled, she breaks up and does it even more (which i understand, nobody wants to be controlled).

 

i don't know why she hasn't follow her own beliefs. maybe she only does this stuff out of anger and to get a response out of me? why ask me to move in unless she really did want me to?

 

i think she wanted me to move to XXXX with her, but then felt super insecure and angry at me. i'm sure i was controlling because i thought she did want a future together, was patient (disappointed and hurt rather than mad) about her dating site stuff and hoped that she would see the light, but at some point you start to wonder when the left hand (move in plans, sex, baby, doing stuff together, doing stuff with kids,etc.) and right hand (anger meltdowns, dating sites) are doing two different things. i told her that the hot and cold behavior was too much for me. i think she loves me, but has a real problem with loneliness, anger, and communicating her emotions, and is constantly blinded by anger, fear of commitment, and fear of getting hurt.. and every time she goes into a rage of anger. i hoped she would have used our time apart constructively rather than just acting out her anger and other emotions. she knows i love her and the kids, but it's like she just can't stop hate, destruction, sabotage, etc.

 

For instance, here's a summary of this month's drama:

 

July 4 u join okcupid. i think its because you're just bored and/or lonely.

July 5 u email me: "I love you baby and I really am looking forward to seeing you tomorrow!!"

July 6 we go to see "cyrus" at alamo drafthouse, make love that night

July 7 i talk to you for a long time on your drive about dale carnegie class, everything was fine

July 8 we go to ice cream at amy's, everything was fine

July 9 wine tasting in fredericksburg, great time; you ask me to move in with you in xxxxxxx; i say yes; i discover okcupid that night

July 11 i confront u about okcupid, you get angry and withdraw; i tell you i am hurt but not mad

July 12 i tell u i need commitment from you to move in; (move in=serious relationship); you agree; you remind me about orlando trip dates and i agree to go

we have thai lunch together, texmex dinner in xxxxx, we make love, you ask me if i want you to have my baby and i say yes (baby=serious relationship)

July 13 u breakup and tell me you're not in love with me, i send you relationship/love articles; you uninvite me from orlando trip

July 14 i cancel cali trip, at my parents' advice, to figure us out

July 15 u tell me you want space to gather thoughts; i come to xxxxx & help you with craigslist postings; "dating is the last thing on your mind"; i rebook cali trip

July 16 morning, u tell me to order your son's ds thing and set it up when the kids are back, say we will think about a new computer for your son

July 16 i hang out with you and the kiddos at GattiTown, goes great; fortune cookie night, i ask you to choose to love and commit

u assure me we're together and won't date around while we take space and i go to cali

July 17 i leave for cali; i text you "i love you and i miss you". you text me back: "I love you too. Have a safe trip!!"

July 18 u set up another account on okcupid. (i still think its because you're bored and lonely since i am gone to cali)

July 24 i get back from cali, u make up stories about where you are, i discover okcupid and confront u. u get mad, won't talk anymore, say you care about me but don't love me anymore

 

---

 

i love her very much, and i realize i can't "fix" her, but just wanted to hear some input and advice. is there any constructive advice about how to make things work? am i a complete idiot? is she bipolar?

 

J1970

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is there any constructive advice about how to make things work? am i a complete idiot? is she bipolar?

Are you seriously asking if she's bi-polar? Cause no one here is going to be able to make an accurate assessment just based off what you say about her. But uh, yeah, she does seem to have "issues" and I'm sure you probably have some yourself. Have you considered couples counseling? I think this is a bit too complex to be solved on an internet message board, especially if they involve mental health.

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The fact that she runs right to dating sites at the first sign of trouble and will disinvite you or make big plans with you is a hallmark of immaturity. As with poster above, none of us are qualified to say if she's bipolar, but surely her behavior is inconsistent with the requests to move in and have a baby. I'd say if you continue the relationship her behavior will continue too and the stakes will only get higher after you've moved in together or brought a child into the world. She's claiming victimhood while trying to manipulate you: are these the characteristics you'd want in the mother of your children?

 

Counseling might help, even if not couples counseling go by yourself and try to enlist professional support in deciding whether this is what you want with your life.

 

Good luck.

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i wasn't seriously asking for a psychiatric assessment of her. i am looking for advice, perhaps around the trust/control feedback loop we seem to have formed, or any other thoughts or advice (i.e. "let her be and each of you figure yourselves out", etc.)

 

i agree about the behavior continuing and the stakes getting higher. i also feel that she fears i will be more controlling if our relationship continues. however, in my opinion, the only thing i have ever acted controlling about is the fact that she keeps doing the dating site thing behind my back out of anger/loneliness/etc.

 

we did try couples counseling a long time ago and we went 2 times when we were having issues. at the time, she would break up with me every 2-3 days over pretty much anything. i would have to walk on eggshells, and then work extremely hard to convince her to come back. that stopped about 6 months ago, but the control/dating site thing is the latest and greatest. well, to be honest, the breakup/makeup cycle just got a lot less frequent, we started communicating better, etc. heck, maybe it's the same underlying problem.. i dunno. the couples therapy went weirdly - for instance, our second session was going nowhere, and i brought up some of her background and mine, she clammed up immediately and claimed i was attacking her.

 

it's like we've never gone to couples therapy as a couple.. i have very often felt that i was the only one who cared about our relationship, like rowing a boat with one oar in the water. as a result, our relationship has gone in circles. our relationship is the first victim whenever she gets mad, and she uses abandonment and infidelity (well, dating sites) as a weapon against the relationship or me. i can't seem to get her to open her eyes to the patterns we keep both playing out, so the patterns continue and the stakes get higher.

 

is this just a plain ol' toxic relationship that should be abandoned?

 

another thing i thought of is her dating site profile wording..

 

"I have a great job and financially stable enough to support my two wonderful children who also live with me. So, if you are not interested in a single mom who has a great job who can support her children, without a second income, then keep looking.

I take no offense to those who are not interested in that.. It is what it is.

 

sounds sorta narcissistic to me.

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IMO, there are different possible ways of looking at things:

 

1. she isn't capable of a healthy relationship

2. she doesn't want to be in a relationship with me / she really wants to be single and date around and i am keeping her from that

3. she is very confused and doesn't know what she wants

4. our two personalities are just not compatible (although we seem to get along great when she's not breaking up or cheating)

 

i know i can't fix #1, i can't control #2, and i don't believe #4. re: #3, my continual trying with may stem from being a "fixer" and her mixed messages... in other words, i believe the "hot" words and events, and think the "cold" words and events are due to her confusion and/or personal issues that she or i need to work out, and i remain eternally hopeful that we can work things out together.

 

when she breaks up, every time it's "for good", but we have almost always rekindled the same day or within a day or two. when she is in "broken up" mode, she is impossible to communicate with. when we make up, we typically don't talk about the problems and just go the love/sex/holding eachother route. it's been very hard on my self-esteem since she keeps pushing my abandonment/betrayal hot button, and the more she pushes that button (and sometimes just after telling me i'm her true love, how she wants to get married, move in together, have a child together, etc), the more i am reacting and the more controlling i am acting.

 

is this possibly just a codependent or mutually addictive relationship?

 

any thoughts?

 

help!

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All those possible ways of looking at this = You miserable + you paying child support while she moves on to the next sucker.....

Find someone better.....there's got to be a normal woman out there for you.

Unless you live in Alaska or something. In which case a walrus is better than this woman....less problems and they catch fish

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All those possible ways of looking at this = You miserable + you paying child support while she moves on to the next sucker.....

Find someone better.....there's got to be a normal woman out there for you.

Unless you live in Alaska or something. In which case a walrus is better than this woman....less problems and they catch fish

 

i hear ya on that, michael i guess my hope, which springs eternal, was that someone might suggest just one more option, or point out that my controlling behavior has pushed her away and that i need to chill out, etc. it is sad to me, since i honestly could see myself spending the rest of my life with her if she would only cut out the weird stuff and just honestly, lastingly, commit. that probably speaks volumes about me, however, e.g. why am i being such a sap and willing for someone who puts me through this. maybe my self-esteem has become so damaged by this crappy relationship that i'm blind to seeing her as she really is.... ouch!

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Well, the way you describe it, there must be some incredible redeeming quality about her, because she sounds very unstable and not someone I would EVER even dream about taking to the next level.

 

well, all i can say is that she does something special for me. i was brought up with anti-stepkids parents, and i fought my parents' viewpoint until they changed and accepted her. in previous relationships, i've sometimes had a wandering eye. when i am out with her in public, i don't look at women who may be younger, better bodied, prettier, etc. in other words, i only have eyes for her. i am attracted to many of her traits - she's smart, hard working, ambitious, accomplished, a great mother and very loving to her kids, has a sense of humor similar to my own, very exciting to be around, and essentially makes me feel like a million bucks when we are together and the breakup/makeup game isn't going.

 

yes, there is some fine print just underneath that list of features, but i have tried to be patient and try every option before giving up on her.

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Wouldn't you prefer to find someone with less drama?

 

well...

my first choice would be her if she only quit the drama and honestly committed

otherwise, it would have to be someone else, because the drama is too much

 

i truly believe in the idea of a "conscious relationship" - if two people who love each other honestly understand their games and patterns, and they are willing to work through things, they can enjoy a very happy life together.

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well...

my first choice would be her if she only quit the drama and honestly committed

otherwise, it would have to be someone else, because the drama is too much

 

i truly believe in the idea of a "conscious relationship" - if two people who love each other honestly understand their games and patterns, and they are willing to work through things, they can enjoy a very happy life together.

 

Yes, I agree with you on the conscious relationship - but I also think that some people are too self serving, or too disconnected, to be conscious of their actions and how they affect others and/or the dynamic of their relationships.

 

All this "acting out" and drama seems so immature for someone her age, let alone someone who has children to take care of/set an example to..

 

I dunno, these patterns seem too ingrained.

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Yes, I agree with you on the conscious relationship - but I also think that some people are too self serving, or too disconnected, to be conscious of their actions and how they affect others and/or the dynamic of their relationships.

 

All this "acting out" and drama seems so immature for someone her age, let alone someone who has children to take care of/set an example to..

 

I dunno, these patterns seem too ingrained.

 

I agree with you. She does exhibit quite a few narcissistic traits. I think she has a strong tendency to see herself as a victim, hence never apologizing for her own behaviors or showing empathy when she does hurtful things.

 

I think she believes that she only acts in these ways in our relationship. In her marriage of 8+ years, her husband had a very weak, passive personality. At least as far as she's told me, since over the past 2 years, she has never introduced me to him.. a big red flag IMO. I think she compartmentalizes her life -- gets angry if i contact her at work, used to sneaking me (or other guys) into her house after kids go to bed and hiding me or other guys if kids knock on door, wants to go out with her girlfriends and not invite me, or hang out with me and not invite her girlfriends, etc. Some of this is my doing, from not being cool with her kids at first or calling her too often when she plays the breakup game, some is our collective doing, from some of her friends being poisoned against me. Still, even though we have been "on" since February and off as of a couple days ago, her Facebook status has always said "Single". In fact, the Meetup groups she's joined are mostly about drinking and singles. She sorta flip-flops between wanting to hang out with girlfriends and not date at all, to going hog-wild and trying to fill every free night with a different date.

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Wow, that does sound like a lot of drama. Frankly I feel sorry for her children in all of this.

 

If she is constantly carrying on in this self serving manner, then she obviously isn't devoting enough of herself to her children. They should be her primary focus.

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actually, she says she is going to focus August on getting her kids acclimated to a new house, new schools, etc. and taking them on a family trip to Orlando (the one which i was invited to go on, but subsequently uninvited). her kids seem to be doing okay through all this, must be that she has mostly succeeded in isolating her kids from her personal/dating life. her kids do come first to her and she does make them a priority... often at the expense of our relationship.

 

one thought i just had is that people in a relationship "train" each other by actions/reactions, boundaries, etc.

 

it could be that all of my endless efforts to win her back through all the rapid-cycling breakups and makeups has lowered her perception of my value and taught her that the way to get me to pour on the love and flowers is through breaking up. if that's true, what she doesn't understand is that breakups are a very stressful thing to endure and endless breakups really do chip away at a person until extreme anger is the result. i would say that i am a pretty mellow person normally, but the only times i've lost my cool has been after seemingly endless cycles of this.

 

can this lesson be unlearned?

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can this lesson be unlearned?

 

I think once a person (especially dysfunctional) has "put you in a box" so to speak, then generally that is how they continue to see you.. -part of the behavioral patterns of dysfunctional people is that they deliberately try and lower your self worth in order to feel better about themselves.. If you try and pop out of that box, they will only try and stuff you back in -or discard you (as you are no use to them anymore -ie, no use in making them feel better about themselves) It's not really a relationship, but a game.

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background on her: she was sexually abused by her father during childhood. also, she married young and had a couple kids, and we met too soon after her divorce. she admits to having trust issues, i.e. every guy she's loved has ended up hurting her. she has anger problems, i.e. she gets very angry and often she breaks up with me immediately and jumps on the dating sites instantly -- she acts out anger rather than talking through it with me. later she makes up, but never apologizes for her behavior or reassures me that she will stop the behavior.

 

You should have a giant warning GONG sound in your head just from these facts....

Dont think for one second that your love is going to be the glue that keeps the two of you together or changes her for the better

 

the relationship has been hot from her side (let's get pregnant right now, let's get married right now) and cold (i hate you, i don't love you, etc.) and been on & off.

 

This is a giant red flag that should be poking you in the eyes....

 

well, all i can say is that she does something special for me. i was brought up with anti-stepkids parents, and i fought my parents' viewpoint until they changed and accepted her. in previous relationships, i've sometimes had a wandering eye. when i am out with her in public, i don't look at women who may be younger, better bodied, prettier, etc. in other words, i only have eyes for her. i am attracted to many of her traits - she's smart, hard working, ambitious, accomplished, a great mother and very loving to her kids, has a sense of humor similar to my own, very exciting to be around, and essentially makes me feel like a million bucks when we are together and the breakup/makeup game isn't going.

 

You're missing the warning signs because you always have this record on the turntable....ready to play when you have doubts.

Also it really sucks when you raise step kids as your own and the mother cuts you out of her/their lives. Been there done that....

 

There is one other option....check back with her in 20 years and see if she's changed

I understand loving a girl that is somewhat wacked....but dont marry her or get her pregnant. Just be her friend and find someone else that wont put you through the wringer

Whatever you do.....proceed with extreme caution

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I think once a person (especially dysfunctional) has "put you in a box" so to speak, then generally that is how they continue to see you.. -part of the behavioral patterns of dysfunctional people is that they deliberately try and lower your self worth in order to feel better about themselves.. If you try and pop out of that box, they will only try and stuff you back in -or discard you (as you are no use to them anymore -ie, no use in making them feel better about themselves) It's not really a relationship, but a game.

 

hmm... (tap-tap-tap on my head) she accuses me of trying to lower her self-worth by criticizing or correcting her. For instance, I asked her a few weeks ago how she would know if she was in love, and she said something like "when someone else is there for you all the time, no matter what, yada yada". I jumped in and said "You being in love is really about how you feel about someone else and what you are willing to do for them, not vice versa" and she got really angry and upset with me.

 

truth is, i have always ended up feeling used or taken advantage of, to the point of feeling like the point of sex is to please her or prove my value to her sexually and taking her places for days or weeks until the next breakup is just filling her free time (which she has little of), entertaining her until she finds fault in me and breaks up, or until someone better comes along. but at the same time, she professes that she really loves me... until the past couple weeks, that is. maybe she finally discovered that she doesn't love me at all and has indeed just been using me, and that her behavior isn't that of someone in love.

 

i have recently been asserting myself more and perhaps trying to pop out of that box that i've been put into (fun to hang out with, great sex, but no future together) and press for reciprocation of love and a future together, but that has seemed to make me appear needy, controlling, etc.

 

argh!

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You should have a giant warning GONG sound in your head just from these facts....

Dont think for one second that your love is going to be the glue that keeps the two of you together or changes her for the better

 

Michael, I agree that "love is not enough". I also think that she's smart enough to open her eyes, and if she wants a more functional relationship with me, to believe it's possible and go for it.

 

This is a giant red flag that should be poking you in the eyes....

 

Yep. She has been through a lot of therapy, but my suspicion is that her shrink(s) haven't really helped her heal completely. We all have issues, it's just if & how we deal with them that matter. For example, I wasn't molested, but when I was young my dad screwed around and had one foot out the door toward a single mom with two kids. That gave me issues with betrayal and abandonment, and I have only recently begun to deal with them.

 

You're missing the warning signs because you always have this record on the turntable....ready to play when you have doubts.

Also it really sucks when you raise step kids as your own and the mother cuts you out of her/their lives. Been there done that....

 

Yep. If I'm blind to all the negatives and only see the positives, I'll end up hurtin' for certain. She has throttled and controlled my relationship with her kids on and off due to our own relationship instability, and I don't blame her for that, but it really sucks -- the kids seem to like me and love me, but see me as someone who keeps coming and going. When she breaks up for longer than a day or two, she doesn't tell her kids anything, but rather expects me to just fade away into the night.

 

There is one other option....check back with her in 20 years and see if she's changed

I understand loving a girl that is somewhat wacked....but dont marry her or get her pregnant. Just be her friend and find someone else that wont put you through the wringer

Whatever you do.....proceed with extreme caution

 

Possibly. Sucks, because I would like to have a child and she (usually) is down with that. However, I'm afraid I couldn't handle being just her friend for quite a while.. when my feelings for her die and hers for me die too. Tough deal, man.

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i would not consider a life with someone as mercurial as her. i would forget her and move on. if you are going to marry and have kids with someone, it should be with someone more reliable than this.

 

thanks for your advice, annie. i guess i sometimes feel like i haven't tried hard enough for her to give up her mercurial ways, even though i have tried and tried. yes, it sounds like i'm addicted to trying to make it work with this woman. the harder i try, the more she distances herself. perhaps if i just stop trying, she will come back around and the tables will turn to some degree?

 

she has her life (at least as it appears from the outside) very well planned out and organized. i just don't know if she really knows how to incorporate someone else into her life in a meaningful way. maybe that's why she married a weak-willed person, so that she could make the rules and wear the pants, rather than sharing the pants and compromising with them.

 

she seemed to make it work pretty well with a guy she dated for a few months after we split up the first time (due to me not being cool with her kids). maybe this is all a case of her just not forgiving me for initially rejecting her kids/situation/etc. based on the ideals i was taught growing up.

 

one last thing that has always bugged me is her attitude toward dating expenses - we have been going out on & off for over two years, but she still believes that i guy should always pay. it got to the point where i would look at my credit card statement during breakups and say, wow, i am spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a person who keeps breaking up. so then she accused me of keeping track of the money i spend on her. i suggested, how about you start offering to pay sometimes and i can decline your offer from time to time, and she was not to happy with that. i suggested, hey, we've been dating for two years, how about we start being more considerate of my money since it should really be "our" money once we get married, and she was upset about this too. sounds like she really is a user, but perhaps things here in Texas are different than California (where I'm from) in terms of guys always paying.

 

funny thing is that everything looks great and perfect if you read her dating site profile and everything seems great when you feel the passion.

 

maybe it's the difference between pleasure and happiness. pleasure is temporary, fleeting, while happiness is more enduring and more fulfilling. pleasure is of the body, happiness of the soul.

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I asked her a few weeks ago how she would know if she was in love, and she said something like "when someone else is there for you all the time, no matter what, yada yada

 

Warning! Warning! Danger Will Robinson! Danger......

 

I jumped in and said "You being in love is really about how you feel about someone else and what you are willing to do for them, not vice versa" and she got really angry and upset with me.

 

Bingo....her mindset is screwed up

 

I've got 2 buddies that married wacked women....

 

Buddy#1 - His wife left him and moved to the other side of the country. He kept custody of the kids. Kind of worked out OK for him....He's much happier now...

 

Buddy#2 - His wife left him, took the step kids and the daughter they had together. He gets to see his daughter part time. They were married one year. She is taking him to court to try and get alimony/child support and the house that his parents gave him before they even met. He is miserable and still "loves" her.....

 

How lucky do you feel?

 

I know what you're thinking — "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

-Dirty Harry-

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thanks for your advice again. i am starting to see the light and my own lunacy.

 

the other night, i was hoping and wishing that Someone... well, Someone who she believes, respects, and trusts... could whisk her away and explain to her how wacko she has been acting and help her to see that she's got some real issues. all along, she has been putting all the blame on me. if i discovered she was on the dating site, i wasn't trusting her. all the times i found this out, she never apologized once. if i told her she was hurting me and to please stop doing it, i was controlling. if i counted my duckets after breakups, i was being a tightwad. if i didn't buy her a ring because things were unstable, i didn't have faith. etc. etc. etc. !! and if i wrote an email about her acts of relationship sabotage (but also stated that i thought she was a great person inside, but doing bad things for reasons i didn't understand), i was just blaming her. in other words, i have had to walk on eggshells and phrase my makeup emails and letters in ways that *really* tiptoed around the real issues instead of just saying it like it is. and as of the last few weeks, she hasn't even wanted to talk about our relationship at all. if i came over and wanted to discuss it, i was told to leave. if we were talking on the phone and it came up, she became very disinterested. all of these things, from what i've read, are signs that someone either doesn't love you and/or is having an affair behind your back.

 

where's my "danger will robinson" alert now?

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after we split up the first time (due to me not being cool with her kids). maybe this is all a case of her just not forgiving me for initially rejecting her kids/situation/etc. based on the ideals i was taught growing up.

 

Not a good move on your part.....hopefully you cleared this up with her?

Doesnt excuse her bizarre behavior tho.....

 

where's my "danger will robinson" alert now?

You cant hear it because that "she's so wonderful " record is playing full blast

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