Lost Love Calls, But Is Remarkably Cheery-And I Hurt

[romantic sweetheart]

Hello. I have an ongoing problem. I had dated someone for over two years, and we were very close. He was my comfort, my friend, my lover, but he also hurt me deeply. In September of last year, he moved away, but he still contacted me from time to time, and he also sent me some very moving, emotional, and urgent letters expressing his desire to marry me. This April he moved back in order to be close to me again. I was very cautious about the whole matter, but I let him back into my life only to be devestated again by his lack of motivation--no job, no place of his own, no plans, etc.

 

Two weeks ago I told him we couldn't talk right now. This was after a couple of months of a strange friendship/lovership situation. Truthfully, I did want him to pursue me again---I missed him terribly, and I still do, but it is clear he is not getting his life together for himself, let alone for me.

 

Last Friday he saw me drive by, and when I got home, he called me. We talked for a bit. It seems he has developed amnesia for how passionately he had wanted to reunite with me just a couple of months earlier---On the phone, he was very cheerful, and I could discern it wasn't an act. He said he missed me and my family ("I miss my girls" he says in a cutesy tone) He seemed to be at ease with his current situation of living with the mom of a little boy he has befriended through the Big Brother Program. In a rather blissful tone he told me "I'm right where I need to be in my life." No matter that he lost me---in fact, there seems to be no effect on him whatsoever that I am not there.

 

I am hurting over the idea that I was of no nevermind to him---after all that we had, and all that we were together---am I this forgettable? Am I of so little consequence? I have been suffering a great deal from the loss of this human, loving closeness in my life. And he--well, ,he has bounced back so utterly fast, it is truly amazing. This from a man who just weeks earlier was sobbing, telling me he would never rest until he "saw the chruch doors swing open" and I in a wedding gown, his bride.

 

How do I deal with this pain, the pain of feeling of so little importance to someone I had once shared my entire, living, breathing being with? In this, I feel erased, lost, helpless, and just not able to understand anything.

 

Thank you warmly for any words of help......

[kipster]

First, Romantic Sweetheart, let me say that you're one of the most elegant writers that I've seen on these boards and its a pleasure to read your posts. In terms of your present post, I will say the following...

 

...I have an ongoing problem. I had dated someone for over two years, and we were very close. He was my comfort, my friend, my lover, but he also hurt me deeply...he moved away, but he still contacted me from time to time, and he also sent me some very moving, emotional...letters expressing his desire to marry me. This April he moved back..I was very cautious about the whole matter, but I let him back into my life only to be devestated again by his lack of motivation--no job, no place of his own, no plans, etc.......

 

This seems somewhat inconsistent to me RS. It seems you did care for this man deeply, that's obvious. Yet you still let his lack of motivation deter you from making a committment. Personally he was reaching out to you, IMHO, to marry you and yet you were remaining guarded from that possiblity even rightfully so based upon prior experience. Seems he thought about how much you meant to him and then returned to give you guys another chance. Yet, due to your reservations you seemed averse to that possibility. In my experience, which is admittedly less than your own, I'm most impressed with a woman that actually embraces me for my weaknesses as well as my strengths, moreso the former than the latter. And a woman that loves me and is willing to move forward with me for who I am, not who she wants to change me into, or who she wants me to be, or some prototype that she has of me. In your situation it seems you just couldn't fully embrace him for who he was. Yes, maybe he wasn't the most 'motivated' person in the world...But did he love you unconditionally? Did he make you feel complete despite his shortcomings? I would imagine that he did unless you wouldn't be typing the prior post, so even with his shortcomings he still showed some worthwhile qualities. But in the end it seems that those qualities may not have been enough to satisfy you and he got that vibe from you when you seemed non-commital to him after repeated efforts. Yes a man will pursue you, we don't mind the chase. But when it becomes obvious that we are not going to win the race, EVER, then you must cut your loses. That's the typical male logic. The basic syllogism is as follows:

 

I only pursue woman if I can win,

RS is giving me the impression that I can not win,

____________________________

thereforeeee, I will stop pursuing RS

 

Us men are simple, really. I think your friend just got tired of running into a wall that he just didn't see as ever opening.

 

 

...Two weeks ago I told him we couldn't talk right now. This was after a couple of months of a strange friendship/lovership situation. Truthfully, I did want him to pursue me again---I missed him terribly, and I still do, but it is clear he is not getting his life together for himself, let alone for me.......

 

See this is that strange attraction/repelling dynamic that I spoke of earlier...Its liek you enjoyed the 'strange friendship/love sitch', and you do miss him and want him to chase. Yet, you acknowledge that even if he does it still won't be enough for you...It seems that his life 'is together' for him...he's happy and he wanted to make you happy...Yet, what would have made you happy was for him to CHANGE who he was fundamentally...You just seem like you couldn't just accept him for who he was and move forward with him despite his shortcomings...And that's fine, that's your choice...But really you can't have it both ways...you can't be sad that he won't pursue you, then when he does give him the impression that unless he changes theres no hope...the two ideas are isomorphic...

 

...Last Friday he saw me drive by, and when I got home, he called me. We talked for a bit. It seems he has developed amnesia for how passionately he had wanted to reunite with me just a couple of months earlier---On the phone, he was very cheerful, and I could discern it wasn't an act. He said he missed me and my family ("I miss my girls" he says in a cutesy tone) He seemed to be at ease with his current situation of living with the mom of a little boy he has befriended through the Big Brother Program. In a rather blissful tone he told me "I'm right where I need to be in my life." No matter that he lost me---in fact, there seems to be no effect on him whatsoever that I am not there.......

 

Its not amnesia RS...its called 'giving up' or 'acknowledging defeat'. He gave his best sales pitch to you...but there one catch..You weren't buying...So what's he supposed to do? And of course he's happy know, because he's finally convinced himself that you don't want him. For men, we hurt like women...we just do it behind closed doors...But its a relief to us once we know we gave our best to try to win a woman back and it didn't work...our heart than can close knowing we did EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to make it work it just wasn't in the cards...Then invariably, that's when most women want us back...But with men, when those feelings go you can't get them back...women seem a bit more flexible and seem to take longer to get to that point...So now he's happy I mean he moved back to get close to you, he tried calling you, he tried reaching out to you, but you never let him back in fully, so if he had any doubt that he hadn't given it his best shot, you erased them for him. So ironically, a man that you said had little motivation, now seems to be showing quite a bit of it when it comes to moving forward...Yes he wanted to marry you RS, but the window does close if you don't seize it...And this guy was trying he was being as explicit as a person could be and he really seems to have a good heart...but I understand you had to do what you had to do..

 

...I am hurting over the idea that I was of no nevermind to him---after all that we had, and all that we were together---am I this forgettable? Am I of so little consequence? I have been suffering a great deal from the loss of this human, loving closeness in my life. And he--well, ,he has bounced back so utterly fast, it is truly amazing. This from a man who just weeks earlier was sobbing, telling me he would never rest until he "saw the chruch doors swing open" and I in a wedding gown, his bride........

 

No this is inaccurate...You WERE OF QUITE A BIT OF 'NEVERMIND' TO HIM. Hell he even moved back into town to be close to you by your own admission. It wasn't that you were forgettable or of little consequence either. Let's not make this an issue of self-pity. You know both of those things aren't true. The truth is he was offering you HIM and you kept turning him away for whatever reason (i.e., motivation). And oddly enough you really didn't seem to start appreciating him, for who he was, until you discerned that you no longer mattered to him. Just think about his perspective for a moment. Just think how he felt to have rammed his head into a wall, to have all of his friends probably tell him he was a nut and ridicule him for moving back to be with a woman that wasn't allowing him to marry her at that point. And then think about how devastated he was the DAY HE REALIZED THAT YOU WOULD FOREVER BE THE ONE THAT GOT AWAY FOR HIM. That for us MEN IS A DEVASTATING DAY, but it allows us to move forward and to get to a point where even if you're naked in front of us it won't matter. You're time has passed... unfortunately, I fear your old boyfriend may have reached that point and he wasn't getting any younger...I'm just trying to be real with you and give you his perspective..

 

...

How do I deal with this pain, the pain of feeling of so little importance to someone I had once shared my entire, living, breathing being with? In this, I feel erased, lost, helpless, and just not able to understand anything.......

 

First I think you must realize the situation for what is and ASK yourself, is this man really a person that I could share my life with if it were not for this one thing (i.e., motivation). If so, why let something that could be great just fall by the waist side? Clearly you love this guy, though you haven't said it. I can read through the lines. So why not come out of your shell and comfort zone and if you love this guy, tell him, and show him. Be up front, tell him that his motivation is the only thing keeping you from marrying him. And that you do love him and miss your time with him. All I can say is that if my EX still loved me and was reluctant to get back with me for some minor issue (to me of course) and didn't have the wherewith all to pursue me after I made a concerted effort to be with her, then I'd have to ask myself if she really cared for me as much as she said she did. If this guy means nothing to you, then moving on should be easy. But if he does, RS why let it go? Because he's not motivated as much as you would like him to be? Does he make you happy? Do you enjoy being with him? Do the other pro's outweigh the cons? If so, why let it go to waste? Go get your man before another woman does and you're the one that's wondering if you did all you could to make it work...

 

 

Kip

[deebee]

Just to concur with Kip's insightful post about how men react, I also experienced the same thing in my recently finished relationship. She ended it because she claimed we 'didn't gel' and I 'over-analyzed the relationship'. What she failed to mention was her lack of commitment to me and the relationship!

 

I was having a tough time, having been made redundant and no luck finding work for several months was knocking my confidence and self-esteem. Ultimately it impacted the relationship as I became withdrawn and depressed. Yet instead of being strong and loving me unconditionally whenever I was having a bad time (and admittedly not the best person to be around!) she would back off.

 

Kip put it well about the feeling of not being able to win with this person. It seems that what some women say and do/mean are different things. There were massive inconsistencies that she seemed unaware of. Like the twist in the end of 'The Usual Suspects', it makes you go back and look over the whole relationship with new eyes!

 

Yes, men do hurt just as much as women, maybe more because we don't express it openly. Your ex seems truly happy now - perhaps you should allow him to move on with his life, and you with yours.

[romantic sweetheart]

Hello. I appreciate your responses, and I can see what you and kip are trying to say.. but in my defense, ,I must say I was very devoted to Paul. I stood by him as best as I could, even when he told me he felt like he was 14 and wanted to be free of any responsibility. I don't think it is fair to assume I wasn't committed or supportive---I loved that man, and he knew it.

 

I have tried to understand why Paul refuses to work--I have tried to show him I cared. Like kip said I should do, I openly told Paul I loved him and appreciated all of his wonderful qualities. But he still told me flat out that he cannot work. He doesn't want to take on a job. He also told me he doesn't want to deal with a relationship, and can't handle being responsible for my life. He asked me why I cannot just enjoy life like he is.........Do you see how much this hurts???

 

 

Please understand that this hurts very deeply--even if I know Paul is very happy now with his carefree life of no demands, ,I still hurt inside---I hurt because I feel I wasn't crucial enough for him to step out of his comfort zone and be brave for me. Even though things were rocky between us, we have had a long history together. When I first met Paul, he told me he asked me out because he admired so deeply what I stood for---for committment, integrity, honour, ,passion, faith, etc...I assumed that what he admired, he also lived. The day he asked me out, he overheard me talking in my shop about true love, devotion, and marriage---he told me he would always regret it if he didn't speak to me then and there.

 

I carried with me this idea that Paul wanted what I wanted---a future. It's been two years---Paul still has no job. I tried to understand...tried to be there. But how much can a woman wait around?

 

I know I am not perfect by any means. I know that my pain has caused Paul to want me to go away---he knows he hurt me. But the thing here is that he knows why he has hurt me---It seems that getting a job--anywhere..I don't care....would be a positive step to helping our future. At 28, I think this should happen.

 

I had to defend myself, because I love Paul...I always have. I built a life around him....and it is devestating to feel like that life has been obliterated---I hope you understand my point of view----

[deebee]

Hi, I see what you mean and didn't realise that he chooses not to work! Owing to two separate redundancies I have spent much of the past two years job seeking before finding work again. It sucks and the stress/depression it caused probably contributed to the break up of two relationships (and more pain!).

 

As an outsider, it seems like you two had fundamental differences in your approaches to life, responsibility, reward, risk, sacrifice etc. I can see why his attitude has caused this conflict for you. I agree with you, at 28 he should accept the responsibility that comes with being an adult, get a job, contribute to society and pay his way! Presumably his new girlfriend pays the bills? No wonder he appears happy! But there is more to life than that...

 

I guess it is possible to love someone deeply and still have fundamentally different values. If it's a big enough 'deal breaker' then would you be happy together in the long term? It is painful to come to terms with.

[romantic sweetheart]

Thanks for the reply deebee--You are right--It seems we did have very different approaches to life. I realise more and more that it would be very difficult to keep a lasting union with this much difference--but it still hurts like hell. I feel like I have done something wrong--I don't know--I'm just going through all kinds of hard, gut-wrenching feelings.

 

Yes, the bills are being paid for Paul. In turn, he tells me he looks after Daniel, the woman's son. I know this is a very honourable thing to do, but it still doesn't seem right thathe stays there with no financial obligation.

 

Any way, I have been struggling with the pain that Paul prefers not to be around me, the "guilty conscience." He tells me that no one else is upset with him--but he forgets that no one else wanted to be with him as deeply and devotedly as I did---And I wanted it to work--I wanted us to work together, as mates for life, mutually loving, cherishing, and responsible toward one another---

 

It is going to take time, time...

 

I hope all is well for you deebee---I know how rough it is to be out of work--I lost my business and am in a swirl of sorrow over that, too--It's not an easy road in your young days, is it??

[deebee]

I am really sorry it didn't work out for you, it must be hard when you were that emotionally committed to the relationship. It's a cliche but time is a great healer, as I too have discovered. I think you hit the nail on the head with the 'guilty conscience' thing - you remind him he has responsibilities he doesn't want to face up to.

 

You're right about it not being an easy road. But worse things do happen to people and we all have an amazing capacity to recover and go onwards and upwards. For me, I've had a temp job for a while and found out today I may have an interview for a better paid job with more prospects, so things look a bit brighter. Also had a short e-mail from my ex after two months no contact and I felt OK about it, which I wouldn't have a few weeks ago. So it does get better...

[Mun]

Hi Romantic,

I hope you realize that had you chosen to stay with Paul, you would have had many troubles. There were things about him that you loved, and maybe you were attracted to his carefree attitude ( because you are the opposite).

 

He is happy where he is and you should be happy for him. I know this is hard to do, but also think to yourself that YOU would not have wanted to live like this. You didn't have that to offer him. That which he was looking for: free rent, food, etc.

 

Your priorities are very different. You would never have allowed yourself to give what this other lady is giving. Would you? You would have made each other miserable because of the mis-match.

 

My personal opinion is that a man should not date unless he has a job, and he should not ask a woman to marry him if he is not responsible even for himself.

 

Think about this: You have an unexpected illness or accident and cannot work for awhile, who will pay the bills?

You stick to what you want Romantic, you know what's best for you.

[Mun]

But when it becomes obvious that we are not going to win the race, EVER, then you must cut your loses. That's the typical male logic. The basic syllogism is as follows:

 

I only pursue woman if I can win,

RS is giving me the impression that I can not win,

____________________________

thereforeeee, I will stop pursuing RS

 

Us men are simple, really. I think your friend just got tired of running into a wall that he just didn't see as ever opening.

Kip

I learn something new each time I visit these forums. Thanks Kipster, I really needed to know that

[kipster]

I learn something new each time I visit these forums. Thanks Kipster, I really needed to know that

 

No problem muneca, I'm glad to have been of some insight in terms of what men think (even though when it comes to love its often very simplistic, contrary to what I'm sure women would think). For us men, think logical, rational, and straight-forward. There's really no trick to it. I often think women sometimes think there's always more to what we think, but generally its quite simple. If you remain faithful, trust us, love unconditionally, and don't try to change us into someone we're not, generally you'll do fine. Now of course there are exceptions to ever rule, but we talking generalizations here .

 

And also let me say, muneca, that I indeed peruse your posts and gain an invaluable perspective in return. You really seem to know alot about relationships and you've certainly taught me a thing or two on these boards.

 

Kip

[deebee]

Amen to that!

[Mun]

Thanks guys !

It would be nice if life was easy, but then if life was easy wouldn't it be just boring?

[taylorb]

Kipster,

 

I too thank you for your insight on the male psyche. R.S. and I had semi-similar exes. Like her, I loved him with all my heart and he also knew that. But...maybe I made him feel inadequate sometimes. Maybe he couldn't take the fact that he would never really have his stuff together like I wanted. At times I feel so bad and quilty about this. Other times (although rare) I realize that (because of our different goals in life), maybe we just weren't meant to be.