He has doubts yet our relationship is great

[Jlizzy]

I've been in a number of failed relationships. About 3 years ago I developed a crush for someone who demonstrated interest in me. Fast forward 2.5 -3 years and we're over 9 months together in a fantastic relationship. We laugh together, we talk a lot even when with friends we get locked in conversation, the sex is amazing, the affection is great..everything is great except that through me raising some small concerns about his friendship with another woman, he revealed that he doesn't love me. I have told him on a few occasions that I love him/that I'm mad about him -all in all I hold my feelings in as I sensed he wasn't ready to say it back and I didn't want to scare him. So at the weekend he revealed he has doubts...what about?? Well actually nothing! The only issue he can pinpoint is his lack of sleep if we sleep together too often.

 

His notion of telling someone he loves them is practically one step away from marriage. Ie he won't say it until he's 100% sure. Turns out he was essentially putting himself under pressure to a-feel the same as me, b-tell me he loves me c-know whether I'm the one he wants for the rest of his life. I did not put this pressure on him except threw the very few times I told him how I felt about him eg in a romantic poem.

 

From talking to him the best metaphor I can think of is we have both won the lotto but he's shooting for the stars which doesn't exist...I'm crazy about him and don't want to lose a good thing but am scared of the prospect of him one day deciding I'm not the one for him (though I'm convinced if he did this he'd discover sooner or later he was horribly wrong but it might be too late then). I'm also scared what if this is a case of he knows I'm good for him but just doesn't feel that fundamental spark that people deem necessary??

 

It's hurt me a lot. By the way he's nearly forty! I'm nearly thirty. Unlike me, he's very inexperienced in relationships.

 

Advice appreciated!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

What's the story of his friendship with this other woman? Have they ever dated? Do you think he is interested in her but it is not reciprocated?

[metafisics]

Dont know if I'd be of any assistance. I was once in a similar situation. I decided that I was not prepared to be the bus stop, whilst he's waiting for the one.

 

Its hard for me to tell you what to do. However, do you want to be with someone who's clearly not that into you? I admire his honesty, but it will only work in his favour from now in if you stay, as he will continue getting all the benefits of your relationship without guilt. My relationship was "perfect" too.

 

There are two things: He's either not that into you or he's a commitment-phobe. Either way, there is very little you can do to change him.

[Notreadyet87]

Dont know if I'd be of any assistance. I was once in a similar situation. I decided that I was not prepared to be the bus stop, whilst he's waiting for the one.

 

Its hard for me to tell you what to do. However, do you want to be with someone who's clearly not that into you? I admire his honesty, but it will only work in his favour from now in if you stay, as he will continue getting all the benefits of your relationship without guilt. My relationship was "perfect" too.

 

There are two things: He's either not that into you or he's a commitment-phobe. Either way, there is very little you can do to change him.

 

I agree. I honestly don't see this working out in your favor. You guys are not on the same page and on top of that from you've stated, he has a very unrealistic view on relationships(or at least a view that is different from yours). I won't tell you to leave him or anything of that nature, since the relationship is great and you're both happy. People always have the ability to change, and develop stronger feelings for you. HOWEVER don't bank on it. You don't want to "hope" that he changes, and stick by him, only to have gotten lead on with no prospects for marriage or any type of comittment. Best thing I can tell you is to be very cautious in terms of how much you decide to invest in this situation.

[turnera]

Has he been married?

 

What's his relationship with his mother like?

[Jlizzy]

Thanks all.

 

So many questions...so here's some responses to what you've asked:

*The nature of his relationship with this other woman. He's been friends with her for the past 6 years. On two occasions some months apart I felt a bit uncomfortable about their friendship and I wondered. Eventually I concluded they were just really good friends only to be told in casual conversation that she was "a missed bus". Ie he felt that something at some point could have happened ie he was interested in her in the past but she had a boyfriend even though she always seemed to invite him along. We didn't see her since christmas and then in the last month I tried to calmly and politely discuss my concerns with him. Initially he seemed nice about it..eventually I felt he was a bit tetchy about it. A week later he met up with this friend without my knowledge and tried to manipulating my meetings with him such that i wouldn't know about it! He also seemed to react as if I was a controlling girlfriend when it came to discussion about another female friend. For the record -Twice I relayed my concern in a text and once I discussed it with him in the pub. One of my friends got angry with me when I told her how apologetic I must have sounded in attempting to discuss it with him. She felt I was being too soft with him.

 

Our conversation about him not loving me came about when I addressed him hiding his meeting with his friend. Basically in response to me saying I'd leave him if he did such a thing again, he told me how he feels. Btw his reasoning for going behind my back is that he was trying to avoid confrontration. I believe him but I now feel concerned that they seem to be in regular email and text contact since I can't help but wonder have I made the psychological fauz pas of making her the forbidden fruit and therefore now suddenly communicating with her is very attractive when I know before he wasn't too bothered.

 

Re the other stuff ye say, ye are pinpointing my fears. We have a truly wonderful relationship all in all. We laugh together, chat etc etc it's great but I'm terrified of just being "the bus stop" until he finds someone he's in love with. I can't make him love me even though I truly believe what we have is wonderfull.

 

I find this soooo hard. I've had many terrible relationships. Now finally I find someone I feel so sure about and he claims not to love even though I feel far more loved than my past partners who claimed to love me.

 

I don't want to let go of a good thing and yet I feel very insecure now

 

His relationship with his mother is good. She describes him as her best friend though he tends to go home and spend his weekend in his bed. Ie he's an introvert and nerd at heart....

 

Well I've nothing else to say right now. Your thoughts very much appreciated and thanks for everything so far!

[Taikero]

I am the same way. To me, saying "I love you." to a partner means I have opened my heart to you completely and I am yours. Something like that is hard earned (through trust, respect, intimacy, and effective communication) and not given lightly, and when I say it I mean it with everything that is in me.

[turnera]

Tough one. He has commitment fears. Only you know how long you can wait to see if he'll get past them. Maybe ask him what a perfect wife would look like, and see if you can be that one.

 

OTOH, he may really be just waiting for this other girl.

[learning2relax]

I was in this exact same situation and he broke up with me. In the end he said that for the time that we spent together he was not in the same place that I was and it was eating himself up with guilt because he wasn't there and didn't know if and when he would "get there" and didn't want to hurt me. It hurt me huge. He kept over analyzing things and didn't feel that he had the feelings for me for the amount of time we spent together (3 mos) that he had when he met his ex-wife (when he was in his 30's, he is going to be 50 this year). I feel that he never gave us a chance because most of the 3 months he was so withdrawn and over analyzing that he never fully participated or truly gave his feelings a chance to grow. That said, I have no control over his thoughts, feelings, etc.. so even though I feel that had he just relaxed and allowed himself to enjoy perhaps things could have been different and he could have truly enjoyed what was in front of him, he just wouldn't or couldn't allow himself to do so.

 

If I was to do it all over again (hindsight is always 20/20), when I felt him withdraw, I would have mirrored his actions. I would have pulled way back and made myself less available. Why? Because when he was with me he was always in his head. If I had pulled back and mirrored his actions and spent less time and made myself less available perhaps (I say perhaps because there are no guarantees that this would have worked) his heart would have taken the lead and he would have missed or craved the great interactions and time we spent. I think I would have had more opportunity for his heart to tell his head to quite down or take a Valium.

 

For what it is worth......

[turnera]

That's an excellent point. We want what we can't have, and we take for granted what is right in our face.

[Jlizzy]

Yeah I've debated a lot in the last week to cool off and give him space. Right now however I'm thinking to go see him tomorrow as he asked. He spoke with his mother about us yesterday and is chatting with his friend tonight. I'm terrified of exactly this point: what if he only knows what I mean to him when he doesn't have me..yet my best friend and brother think that dialogue is the way to go.

 

He told me wednesday he wants to work on this and was willing to make a fair trek from his parents place (where he's staying for the weekend) in order to see me tomorrow. He also downed turn his friends on wednesday in order to be alone with me.

 

I think weighing it up I will go see him tomorrow see what he has to say, what his mother and friend said, what if any thoughts he has now on the matter and start laying down some thoughts myself such as for the sake of something good we've had for best part of a year I'm willing to give this a shot but that it's on his shoulders now to rectify matters -eg my shaken trust and faith.

 

Logically I could give up now walk away and possibly somewhere down the line after nursing an excrutiangly broken heart, try and muster up courage to try again with someone else. I can't bear that thought. I'd rather invest in what I have with my boyfriend.

 

Advice still appreciated

[turnera]

Nothing wrong with that...as long as you know what YOU need in the relationship, convey that to him, and explain that if you don't get it, you will not stay. Things like honesty (if I catch you lying, I will leave you), no abuse (if you raise your voice to me, I will leave you)...things like that. Determine YOUR needs for a happy relationship. Then let him decide if he is willing to abide by them. That is you talking from a position of power. And he will respect you for it.

[Jlizzy]

Well now I'm thinking differently about spending time with him tomorrow. The whole agreement in the first place was he would go back to his hometown for a long weekend to chat with his mother and his friend. Now he's out clubbing with his friend. This from a man who a- is obsessed with his sleep and b-never goes clubbing?? I feel angry because when I felt the agreement was that he'd go home early with the primary goal of gaining clarity I feel like he's off now having fun at the expense of our hopes of discussion and quality time tomorrow because now he will be in bits if I go and visit him.

[Jlizzy]

I was going to write another thread and then realised it all ties into the same thing really. The first points for me are relevent to the financial point I wish to put out to people now. I am studying and I am struggling despite a part time job, to make ends meet. With the current recession I'm not even sure if I can take a loan. My parents have lent money to me already but they are not very well off either and approaching retirement so I'm reluctant to turn to them. I was thinking about talking to the bank but for the past month, probably more like 2 months my boyfriend kept telling me no worries, I could lend off him. He was rather insistant about this.

 

On sunday, I was finally starting to see this as an option and I tried to flesh out some finer points such as if we ever break up he will still be guaranteed his money of course and I will try to do something nice for him eg pay for a nice meal at a bare minimum...anyway long story short, suddenly he changed his mind.

 

I feel angry because I feel like he's been dangling a carrot in front of me for 2 months and now when I go to take it it's like he takes it away. It also means that in my eyes for the first time I'm having little niggly feelings of my own: can I trust him? Can I rely on him? 3 times in less than a month he's let me down. he's lied to me, he's turned our whole relationship upside down and he's broken a promise of an offer and suddenly a man who vowed he didn't mind parting with a fraction of his savings is backing out and I'm once again feeling the doom and gloom of my current financial situation.

 

I'm wondering am I wrong to feel angry with him for this? It is after all his money to do with as he chooses...

[turnera]

I would advise never borrowing money from a potential suitor. It can create ugly situations. And it creates a dependence on him. Plus, you need to know that you can take care of your own problems - that keeps you from becoming mentally dependent on a guy, which is very important.

[dancingcolors]

I had the same exact relationship for 2 years. Everything. It was the best relationshipmI ever had, we were so happy together, I was madly in love.... He said he didn't love me, as he was holding me all night in bed.We didn't live together but he would stay over 3 nights a week. He finally told me he was talking to a woman in the night when he wasn't with me, that he had a one night stand with, before he met me. She didn't want to be with him but would call him up drunk and talk to him in the night about sexual exploits with other men. He told me he loved her, and even told her. This is a man, who was a school teacher for 21 years, had 4 children, was a good father and didn't drink or smoke pot. He was 55 at the time.

 

We saw each other for 2 years, in a fun, romantic, passionate relationship. he was always trying to break up with me, saying he wasn't in love with me. He sent me red roses the week before he finally disappeared from my life, and told me I was in his soul. it was the same thing. I felt more loved by him, than men who said they loved me.

 

Yes, I was a bus stop. I think he was window shopping the whole time. Finally he just stopped calling one day. I called and had to pull it out of him that he was seeing someone else. His mother told me he met her at work. He has never tried to contact me ever again.

 

This was a year ago. It has been the hardest year of my life. This man was so gentle and tender. He was mild and quiet. Never once did he raise his voice to me. Yet no one has ever hurt me like he did.

 

I would say get out while the going is good. All my friends told me to leave, and I just couldn't quit him. His leaving me, was ten times worse. Oh yeah, he wouldn't even say I was his girlfriend or he was in a relationship with me. He acted like that was one step before marriage.

 

Now, I have had alot of guys interested in me. If they even show the slightest red flag I am out of there. There are plenty of guys who do want a good relationship, and want to say I love you and be committed. I haven't met the right guy yet, but I have met alot who at least are willing to open their heart up and want to be there for a woman.

 

My biggest lesson from all my heartbreak, is that i won't accept second best anymore, and if I went through this again with him, I would have split at the first warning signs, because I tell you, it doesn't get better, only worse.

 

Good luck, be strong.

 

And I reread your original post. It was like we won the lotto too, and he was shooting for the stars that didn't exist. And he couldn't say he loved me unless he was 100% sure. Sounds like the same guy. I always wonder how it went with the new woman. If she is going through the same thing. Of course the tendency is to think he is loving her in a way he could never love me. My counselor, all my friends and even his mother ( who I only talked to once about it a year ago) say no. It will be the same for her. I still have a hard time believing that of course.

 

His name wouldn't be Walter would it. Sounds so much like the same guy.

[savignon]

I posted this earlier today in response to another thread, but I'm reminded again of something my mother used to tell me which went something like, "A lot of times women find guys to be misleading and deceitful, but men usually tell us exactly what we need to know and all we have to do is listen". It's understandable to be hurt and devastated by the seemingly sudden change in behavior. Ask yourself why you're not listening to the "I don't love you" part.

???

[dancingcolors]

She's not listening, because she loves him, and it FEELS like he loves her, but he really doesn't. It's full of mixed messages. I went through the exact same thing, and love blinds you to hearing the truth. I say if he says he doesn't love you, you better listen, because he is going to just hurt you more in the end. That is what my guy did to me, and I am still recuperating after a whole year. He really didn't love me, or he wouldn't have treated me so brutal. I think it is downright mean and selfish to engage a loving person's heart when they don't love you, and they know you love them. I don't know you call it, but it almost seems like some sort of sickness. I still can't really comprehend it, after all this time. It felt like love to me.

[Jlizzy]

Hmm...whilst your responses are very much appreciated now I feel really scared and sad

 

It doesn't make sense though. My boyfriend never had any issues about us been seen together or about calling me his girlfriend etc whereas I due to circumstances was a bit more cautious. Yet it took him a long time to introduce me to his family. Counteracting that one again, I think he likes to excape home from time to time so taking me with him takes away from his private time..

 

I can't bear to think of this relationship failing. I've been in a number of bad relationships and know how bad things can get. With my boyfriend I already knew how I felt about him even before anything happened between us. It just feels utterly right and not only is he my boyfriend and lover but also one of my best friends.

 

It also doesn't add up because he is the one who will joke about us being married, tell me how much he loved our week living together like a married couple, refer to us as 80 year olds together etc whereas I have never done that due to his reluctance to utter that special sentance. Ie I've never wanted to scare him off...

 

My brother thinks it's just a typical guy thing esp guys from my country. My brother who is now married and in a fantastic relationship, had doubts at least half a year or more into the relationship...He told me just to give my boyfriend time.

 

I feel confused now and depressed For the record, I'm quite well up to speed on what my boyfriend gets up to and he doesn't seem to be hunting for any opportunities with other women, not even the one I mentioned...Though he did lie to me and he seems to be reluctant recently for me to see his inbox

 

Confused!