AARRRRGGGHHH - Ex driving me mad, please read these emails

[amandathepanda]

OK, ended things with my ex after 18 months of crap

 

- he cheated on me with his ex and kept us both going for a year, lying and cheating and doing really sick things like taking us to the same place on subsequent weekends (only found out after talking to her just how bad it has been)

- I "loved" him so stuck around and 4 months ago he ended things with her and we started some counselling...it seemed to go OK but I think in retrospect he was going through the motions - at the end of the counselling we discussed with the counsellor how much reassurance I would continue to need for some time if it was to work.

- I have frequent attacks of insecurity, he lives near her and not near me, and I am constantly aware of this and what has gone before. But I thought I could see some good, and wanted to try.

- This weekend, I ended it because I called him to confess that I had looked her up on facebook and that seeing her photos made me feel weird. I admitted it was a silly thing to do, but he went crazy (he was hungover at the time), called me a freak and said that I had invaded her privacy and hurt HIS feelings. Time to call it a day..

 

Since then I have felt good and bad, missed him at times but essentially I know it cant be. Last night I had a series of what must have been drunken texts from him, they went on for ever...so I decided to send him and email and clarify things again...

 

My email is below and I will then post his reply:

 

Dear

 

I am very very sorry for the distress you were feeling last night, I havent been feeling good too. I think you must have been drinking, that isnt going to help, but there is nothing I can do about that.

 

I think we have to accept that right now, we just CAN'T be together. Despite all the counselling, we have not reached the level of understanding that is needed. I think its very unfair of you to say that I ONLY see my side, but I think that's a sign that you are not really in the right place for this relationship to work - and that's why I made the decision to end it.

 

I will try to explain again what happened on Saturday...from my perspective. Whatever your views about Facebook, please just try to suspend them a moment. I was here, checking my messages, and for some reason, Gabriella came into my mind. Sadly for me that happens a lot, and I think the MAIN problem is that you wish it didnt. Many times still, I remember things that happened, I am aware that she is only down the road, how many times I thought you werent in touch but you were, how many times you said you had moved on but you hadnt. If I told you every single time she comes into my mind, I would tell you a lot more than I do. But I have to try and push it away...and most of the time I do.

 

So I was just flicking through, and rightly or wrongly I clicked on her profile. I definitely was not looking to catch YOU out, it didnt even cross my mind. I know that you are not on Facebook, and I was not looking for some clue that you had been in touch, nothing like that. It was more curiosity, maybe morbid curiosity. She was such a negative forece in my life for that time, I cant even really explain but I just wanted to see. The more I looked at her photos the worse I felt, and that feeling of insecurity came up in me again, I just needed to reach out to you and ask....are you SURE you don't miss her..THAT WAS ALL. My opening line was "I've done a silly thing...". I know you werent feeling well, hungover, and my timing wasnt great...but that was the extent of any selfishness on my part. I wasnt telling you to hurt you, I had actually hurt myself and was reaching out to the person who I love for some comfort. I UNDERSTAND that it felt uncomfortable for you, but I really don't understand why you reacted quite so strongly and it makes me feel that you are not over her yet.. in reality you are only really 4 months out of a 15 year relationship with her, so I guess it makes sense that you wouldnt be..and thats another reason that this isnt working.

 

The other issue is that I really dont think you understand what is needed to make this relationship work. I am not criticising you, I just dont think you have it in you to make my insecurities go away. Your defensiveness and shouting and then telling me to leave you alone, after reaching out for some comfort, shows that you really didnt listen to what was said during counselling. It was discussed, what is needed when I have a moment of insecurity is for you to be reassuring, no matter how many times it takes or how long. For a whole year you were with her and me - WHY WOULDNT I FEEL INSECURE AT TIMES??? I understand your desire to just move on, but you admitted after Valentines Day that you knew it wasnt that simple for me. You have to know that ALL the time, not just when you are in the mood.

 

Your temper, your shouting and swearing are not acceptable to me. Whether or not they were part of your past, whether or not they are part of your "culture", I don't want that level of anger in my life..I have no place for it. If you are happy with it, fine, and I hope that you can find someone who doesn't mind it. But it's not for me. You have done it many many times now, about many different things - shouting and swearing down the phone at me, and I DONT LIKE IT and dont want it in my life. You seem a very angry person a lot of the time. Who are you angry with Andrea?

 

I dont really know what else to say. I am not just thinking about me, I have spent a VERY long time thinking about and supporting you, and you know it. I put up with all the crap you gave me and the bad way you treated me for a long time, hoping that one day when were free of it all, we could work on making it better. I have been there through some bad times for you just as you have for me, and I gave my heart and soul to making it work. I just dont know what more I can do to make you see what is needed from you....I think are needs are too different.

[amandathepanda]

And his response to that email:

 

Amanda,

 

First of al I was not Drunk wen I recived ur mistaken text for god knows who but I was cycling all the way from the gym after having been there with ...

 

this is my last mail to you, I just need to make you know how heartbroken and how puzzled by your decision I am.

 

Your Email was all about you ".. not a single word of understanding, not a single one, just a pure critique.

 

Stuff like the damage I have done" that frankly had nothing to do with the fact that I lost my temper for something that most people aknowledge the reasons for. People that know every little detail. So u dump me after telling me that I have been amazing yes 24 hours later you decide to dump me. You know what rejection feels dont you? But you give rejection and no consideration of my feelings and what could of gone in my mind at the time I raised my voice. U ring me u tell me "I have done something stupid, something very stupid!" then yesterday you tell me it "...was curiosity just something silly". You have never ever answered my questions so far and you have never ever looked at my position cos in reality you are a very selifish person. A month past from Valentines day and now u dump me forgetting all possible good and making me feel a worm for telling me that I gave u presents to buy your trust. That hurts. What I gave to you I have always given for love. What have I ever done in this month to doubt trust? How can you tell me soo many good things and then dispatch me?

 

Everything you said must be lies because you just cant do this to me or to anybody; trow them away like they were nothing. I have tryed and tryed to see your point; the damage and I have listened and understood but you have never ever realised what was my position of 15 years with one person, I struggled but I moved on and you are using this "Trust " thing for something that has nothing to do with trust at all. I lost my temper U WOULD OF IN MY POSITION and as I said u still are changing the story from very bad to curiosity and now a very silly thing!! You you always you! I am hurt I am absolutely * * * * ing killing for your total NOT give a * * * * about me becuse your email just talked about yourself and poor little Amanda and not a spare thought about Andrea; not a single one.

 

This is the end and this is what I tell you once and for all

1) You dont love me and you dont care

2) I will blossom throw this because you will not make me feel any guilt or this rejection for something I have not done. I am real not like your past man who had no assertivness.

3) Your number is not on my phone after informing you of this email. Make sure u discard mine cos I dont want Mistake messages that * * * * up my brain. I do not want your pitty like: "..how is you therapy for your liver "

4) if u wish u can contact me for a last time on here if in some ways u can see my position i.e: instead of telling me of poor u and how * * * * ed it was or damage to actually tell me why at the first argument, YES PEOPLE/ COUPLES HAVE THEM AMANDA, you just dump me. If not dont bother.

5) At work I will be civilized nothing else.

6) I wish u well in life but from now on I dont give a * * * * about you and you are certenly NOT my friend and I doubt it very much you will ever be.

 

 

I AM doing the right thing arent I?

[happylady]

Omg...

 

First off your email was very well written, to the point and definetly non criticising... at all! I dont even want to get into his reply back to you. It was disgusting and manipulative. Please dont go back to him...

[Adrem]

It feels like you are recognising your grief and trying to work through it.

 

You acknowledge that whats missing and wrong is not his rational agreement but his emotional content. You are coming to terms with it in your own way and in your own time.

 

You will get through it, and it will get easier.

[Chandanimane]

I’m sorry, but he has cheated on both you and his ex for a year, and he’s calling you selfish?? When he can’t put himself in your shoes and really see how important it is to need constant reassurance after a betrayal, then HE is the one being selfish. Many couples don’t stay together after trust has been broken. It’s too much work, it’s too far gone for some people. The fact that you tried to stay and stick it out says a lot about your character, that you were strong enough to give it a try, and that you were willing to endure some more pain until it lessened and lessened as time wore on. However, the one who has been betrayed needs a LOT of reassurance after trust has been broken in order to build it back up again. It may seem like an inconvenience at times to the one who has committed the betrayal, but if he really loves you and wants to mend his relationship with you, he would do it, and he would understand why you need for him to do it. You are definitely doing the right thing by cutting him out of your life. I understand that it’s always hard to end a relationship with someone you care(d) about, but it doesn’t look like he’s over his ex, for one thing, and for another, he really has treated you with disrespect in general. The constant yelling at you in another indicator of that disrespect. It’s time for you to free yourself from an abusive relationship and find one where you will be treated like an honest to goodness loved one.

[BellaStranger]

Wow... I simply can't believe that such a constructive, well written e-mail was met with such anger and malice.

 

Your well out of it!! He has no intention of ever dealing with own issues... and is pretty nasty with it! Do yourself a favour and never have anything to do with him again!

 

Good luck... it's hard now but you'll be okay!!

[tso]

His email is all about projection. Let's break down his 6 points.

 

 

 

1. That's atually how he feels about you. He doesn't care about you, but by saying so, he's hoping it'll make you feel hurt into contacting him.

 

2. Yeah put the blame on you instead. Once again make you feel the guilt for him being a cheat.

 

3. Your number will more then likely remain on his phone, he says this hoping you hurt and give him a call. If you don't contact him for a while, don't surprised if he does contact you.

 

4. Look at point no.3, he's hinting he wants you to contact him. By saying one last time, he's calling your bluff. He thinks there's a better chance of you contacting him by saying this is your final chance.

 

5. At work he won't be civilized unless in that time you get back with him. That's possibly a hidden threat ( get back with me or you will pay) so I'd be on guard if I were you. He may spread malicious rumours about you in the workplace, causing you severe distress and losing you job.

 

6. Right, so he wishes you well in life but doesn't give a * * * * about you. rather contradictory statement. He doesn't wish you well in life at all, otherwise why would he say he doesn't give a * * * * about you to hurt your feelings?

 

You are a fool if you get back with him. Don't contact him, change your number and job if possible.

[metafisics]

Sorry Amanada I beg to differ with you and the rest

 

Ok, fisrt and foremost everything I'm about to say is not to judge you, but rather to give you an honest view of someone who is not emotionally involved in the situation.

 

He might have a point in saying you are "selfish" (You might not be malicious in being so. It could be driven by your insecurities). I know you need reassurance, but another person can go so far in trying to reassure you. He probably feels he's done his fair share (wrongly or rightly so). Recovery after the whole ordeal should be a team effort and not one party feeling that she is owed an understanding all the time.

 

You have a role in this team effort and that is to refrain from digging up stuff, otherwise you are keeping the wound open, not only for you, but for him as well. No one wants to know that their current partner is easily shaken by just seeing pictures of their ex, with which they have a history they are trying to recover from.

 

He probably feels that with all the therapy, you still do not trust that he wants you even thought he has chosen you. When you look at ex's picture and wonder out loud whether he is sure he is over her, you are making him wonder whether he really made the right decision.

 

What he is saying in his response is, he has left Andrea, with whom he's had a 15 yr relationship to be with you and yet you feel the most victim. Clearly, even though he left Andrea, he cares a great deal about her and is probably hurting himself for having broken her heart.

 

I'm not saying he's a saint. However, you had decided to forgive him and give your relationship another chance because you love him. That means acknowledging the dynamics of the relationship and accepting that putting the pieces together will not be easy for both of you.

 

So far, it would seem your thinking is that he needs to be the one who takes everything because he was in the wrong. The blame on him and the expectation from him has to end somewhere and there has to be a team effort.

 

I know he was on the wrong, but you forgave him, and that means amongst other things not holding him responsible for every insecurity you feel.

There are somethings you need to workout yourself and that includes being threatened by how Andrea looks. Right now you might be coming accross as being needy and draining.

 

Excuse me if I'm being too blunt, I just trying to show you the other side.

 

On whether you've made the right decision or not, that is entirely up to you. If you see this relationship as something he and he alone has to rescue, maybe you have made the right decision. But if you think you also have a role to play, maybe you can reconsider and start to play as part of a team.

 

All the best, I do not by any means underestimate your pain.

[amandathepanda]

Firstly, he is Andrea (its Italian).

 

You said: So far, it would seem your thinking is that he needs to be the one who takes everything because he was in the wrong. The blame on him and the expectation from him has to end somewhere and there has to be a team effort.

 

Please read my email again, because it is clear that I have tried to remain balanced. I also participated fully in counselling, and I state very clearly, if I mentioned EVERY time I felt insecure I would be saying it a lot more often. I hold back a lot, sometimes I just need a little support from him...some verbal arms around me. It might not be easy for him, but that was the deal in being with me.

 

And I am afraid I cannot agree with your perspective, EXCEPT for the fact that I have to take responsibility for staying for way too long. He is full of anger towards me and I have done NOTHING wrong. He spent a year bed hopping, lying about it, and playing brutal head games with two women...sadly, he would have to be a VERY strong person to play his part in fixing that, and he isn't.

 

WE agreed at the end of counselling, and HE agreed, that he would give reassurances in the moments when they are needed. So far he has not done that on ONE occasion. On Valentines Day, he mocked me, saying " we will see how you feel next weekend, when I am not around and you are all insecure..."

 

Nah, it just stinks. I WAS playing my part.. My email shows that. I have indicated very clearly that its obvious he is not over her. He has been four months out of it, and I was a fool to think that he could be, but he should recognise this himself and not pretend.

[Chandanimane]

> He might have a point in saying you are "selfish" (You might not be malicious in being so. It could be driven by your insecurities). I know you need reassurance, but another person can go so far in trying to reassure you. He probably feels he's done his fair share (wrongly or rightly so). Recovery after the whole ordeal should be a team effort and not one party feeling that she is owed an understanding all the time.

 

I can’t agree with that. It takes a long time to recover from broken trust. I’ve read that when a cheating/cheated couple try to stay together, the one who was cheated on could take a year or more of constant reassurance before the trust is finally rebuilt. There is no magical formula where, bam, the person needs to be over it, just as there is no formula where he has to suddenly be free from the requirement to help her through this. He was the one who did the harm, not her. He does have a requirement to help her through this if they’re going to work on staying together. I also can’t agree that she is the one being selfish. She is being insecure in the relationship, and she has a good reason for that.

 

That being said, I do agree that she should have not looked up the ex on Facebook. I know it can be tempting, but that will only feed on the insecurities. I can see why he might be upset that she did that, but then again, his reaction was way over the top. There was no understanding on his part whatsoever as to what was driving her to do it. She does have a responsibility not to do things that would only hurt herself even more, but he has an ever BIGGER responsibility to get her to the place where she won’t have that urge.

[Ms Darcy]

I recall that you broke up with him before. What I sense from him, as another poster has noted, is that he's calling your bluff. He thinks you'll try again once you have cooled down. He doesn't take you seriously.

 

Is he correct that this relationship rollercoaster won't stop unless he puts a stop to it?

[Sanesoul]

Amanda,

 

Don't respond to his email and don't contact him again. This guy screwed you over and is not taking any responsibility for his actions. He may have gone to counselling thinking that it is was the "band-aid" to fix this, but can't be bothered to continue.

 

Don't waste your mental energy. Move on from this and find a man who will care for you enought to NOT cheat on you to begin with.

[iBroken]

I have to completely disagree with metafics. Have you dealt with infidelity before?

 

First of all......if someone has the trust broken and decides to work things out, that doesnt mean they have forgiven their partner....forgiveness takes a while and comes from within. He has been with her and his ex for a year of their 18 month relationship, only severing the ties 4 months ago. That is a hard thing to get over.

 

Secondly, she IS entitled to discuss HER feelings that stem from his behaviour. That is what working together is all about. If she is having bouts of insecurities, she has the right to tell him when it is happening. As the betrayer, it is his job to listen to it and help her work through those rough patches (in addition to any MC and IC they both should be in at this time).

 

I could go on and on but in my opinion, when someone breaks your trust and says they made a mistake and want to work through it, they have to do what it takes to gain the trust that once existed within that relationship. Trust and forgiveness isnt a default once you reconcile.

 

As for you amanda.....you have done the right thing here in ending this relationship. Bottom line, he is simply blame shifting and is not taking any accountability for the damage he has caused. Rather then understanding your pain, he reacts to it in a such a way that implies he is NOT interested in truly working this out.

 

So, do as he says. Delete his number and move on to the next.

 

Good luck in your healing.

[amandathepanda]

I recall that you broke up with him before. What I sense from him, as another poster has noted, is that he's calling your bluff. He thinks you'll try again once you have cooled down. He doesn't take you seriously.

 

Is he correct that this relationship rollercoaster won't stop unless he puts a stop to it?

 

Yep, spot on Mrs Darcy...I broke up with him before.

 

At some point it HAS to stop, and I think we are that point now...

[metafisics]

My apologies for confusing the names.

 

Yep, I did say it would seem... and this is based only on your post.

 

I mean well: Point I was making without getting into detail is, its a very difficult situation. Perhaps you both underestimated the effort that would be required for things to work out.

 

Without looking at degrees, you are both not entirely wrong or right. Sometimes you need to acknowledge your contribution into the conflict, no matter how small. If not for the sake of this relationship, for your future relationships then.

[amandathepanda]

You guys are all amazing. I have been dealing with this for a long time and take full responsibility for staying far far longer than I should have. I am so grateful for every bit of advice you have given and continue to give...

 

However, last ditch attempt was counselling and only a month after finishing, we are here, with the email above. There is no chance he has what it takes, and I know this now.

 

Its a shame, but I HAVE to move on...

[Ms Darcy]

Yep, spot on Mrs Darcy...I broke up with him before.

 

At some point it HAS to stop, and I think we are that point now...

 

And who will be the one to make it stop?

[amandathepanda]

And who will be the one to make it stop?

 

Me...I have to dont I? I know this....

[Sanesoul]

You guys are all amazing. I have been dealing with this for a long time and take full responsibility for staying far far longer than I should have. I am so grateful for every bit of advice you have given and continue to give...

 

However, last ditch attempt was counselling and only a month after finishing, we are here, with the email above. There is no chance he has what it takes, and I know this now.

 

Its a shame, but I HAVE to move on...

 

It will hurt for while, but I think eventually you will feel relief that you are not under this kind of stress anymore.

[metafisics]

Chandanimane, I'm not on this man's corner. I am trying to move Amanda to be in control and not wallow in self pity all the time. Sometimes she needs acknowledge that her own actions could fuel the conflict. Thats all.

 

I know I am not going to be popular. But if I get to get Amanda to step back a bit and look at what she might have done wrong, even if she thinks in the end the relationship was worth it, I would have achieved my objectives.

 

I sometimes cant help but feel that sometimes we go on and be angry with the poster, sometimes based on our past experiences. This sometimes does not help the situation, as we get into the same state the poster is in.

[amandathepanda]

Chandanimane, I'm not on this man's corner. I am trying to move Amanda to be in control and not wallow in self pity all the time.

 

Please tell me WHERE and HOW I am wallowing in self-pity all the time???

 

Shall I tell you what I am doing right now. Between posting on here I am doing some work from home, helping my ten year old with her homework on the Rainforest and getting ready to go for a walk...I am FAR from wallowing...

 

However, I am dealing with the fallout from a situation that to SOME extent I have allowed to happen, with the best of intentions. I admit to low self esteem, I admit to putting up with crap for too long...but I am NOT full of self pity. Sad yes, jaded yes, wanting to get over it, yes.

 

That's harsh.

[Chandanimane]

I understand what you’re saying, and I even agreed with you that she shouldn’t have looked at those pictures. That, the act of doing something that would only make herself feel worse, is a mistake that I think she made. Even so, he could have reacted differently. His reaction shows his true colors about his view and intention on their relationship. He may have had a reason to be upset, but how he expresses himself and handles it makes all the difference. He reacted without any regard to what propelled her to look in the first place, which was with a complete lack of empathy. From what I’m seeing from Amanda, she is no longer wallowing in self-pity, she is doing something about it.

 

I also point out, as delicately as possible, alternatives to an OC’s viewpoint when I feel it is warranted, so I am with you there, but in this case, I sincerely believe that, outside of the one mistake she made, he was in the wrong.

[metafisics]

Please tell me WHERE and HOW I am wallowing in self-pity all the time???

 

Shall I tell you what I am doing right now. Between posting on here I am doing some work from home, helping my ten year old with her homework on the Rainforest and getting ready to go for a walk...I am FAR from wallowing...

 

However, I am dealing with the fallout from a situation that to SOME extent I have allowed to happen, with the best of intentions. I admit to low self esteem, I admit to putting up with crap for too long...but I am NOT full of self pity. Sad yes, jaded yes, wanting to get over it, yes.

 

That's harsh.

 

I'm not referring to the now Amanda, but to all the time the relationship existence. No intention to upset you further, I wouldnt wanna do that.ou

 

Just wanted you to step back a bit. I'm obviously not going to be accurate in my observations as I'm not aware of all the dynamics of your relationship. If after stepping back and considering all possibilities you trully believe you did not play a role, then thats it. You know the situation better than I do.

 

All the best.

[amandathepanda]

And then the texts start, at around 4pm....

 

" I didn't mean it, I will ALWAYS be hear for you, there will never be any one else...."

 

 

[Chandanimane]

Wow, that was fast. LOL