[Discussion] Socially-acceptable illegal activities in relationships

[Agrajag]

I'm looking for a really good debate her.

 

If I'm a 23 yr old guy dating an 18 yr old girl...and she is out drinking tonight at a friends place. Is that okay? Am I right to ask her to wait 3 months?

 

Where do we draw the line today?

 

Why does it bother me?

 

Is it Trust?

[OptomisticGirl]

Is the friend a guy or girl? What do you mean by waiting 3 weeks?

 

I think it has a little something to do with trust, but not that you don't trust her. Have you ever been cheated on in the past?

[AJEDrew7]

This is how I take what you posted...you just started going out and she's drinking and you want to ask her to wait 3 months to go out drinking because you don't necessarily trust her commitment? Is this the right reading of your post?

[Agrajag]

I'm going to say yes to basically all that - but it's not really what i was getting at

 

Right now my [now ex]girlfriend isn't quite 19 yet [drinking age here] - but as an 18 yr old still thinks it's okay to be drinking.

 

I trust her [i say this in the tense of being IN the relationship] and it goes for any girl really at this point.

 

Many people would say they couldn't date a girl who has drinking habits, just like a smoking habit perhaps.

 

I understand that drinking is a part of the social norm - especially in college. but this girl is months away. Who's to say she can't drink?

 

Should I think less of her? Is her behavior questionable? But what about in countries that have a lower drinking limit....what if she was from that country? Does that make it less wrong?

 

Do you see the issue I'm getting at?

 

Of course, I use this girl just as an example.

 

But let's say it's something slightly more serious like marijuana.

 

It can be a clearly disgusting habit. But am I right to tell her she can't do something that's perhaps harmless.

 

Should I just be accepting the social norms?

What if this girl is the perfect (if they exist) woman..minus 1/2% for having a bowl of weed every now and again ...maybe when she visits parents since they are ...or certain friends

 

Am I getting accross the kind of issue I'm trying to convey?

 

Does it just come down to trust?

[greywolf]

You never drank before the legal age?

[Agrajag]

You never drank before the legal age?

 

i did once or twice.

 

but what i'm asking is where people draw the line?

 

do you go by the state/province you're in? or what abot where you're from?

 

What if the gal is 14?. What if it's a guy?

[Lucius]

Well, I never tell my partner she can't do something. Never. I'll give my opinion - strongly if necessary - but I won't demand or forbid. It's not my place to control the actions of another, even someone I love and care for.

 

Having said that, if she were to consistently behave in a way that I could not respect, I wouldn't stick around. I need to feel that respect for my partner. But it's not respect if she does a thing because I demand it; that's obedience, not compatible values/personality/etc.

[Capricorn3]

Am I right to ask her to wait 3 months?

 

Right now my [now ex]girlfriend isn't quite 19 yet [drinking age here] - but as an 18 yr old still thinks it's okay to be drinking.

 

Should I think less of her? Is her behavior questionable?

I don't understand what waiting 3 months has got to do with anything. What difference does it make if she's 18 or 19? Would you think differently, or less of her at 18 and not the same at 19? I just don't get it.

 

Also, you say she's an EX, so why should this concern you in the first place when she's no longer with you?

[OntheWire]

I don't understand what waiting 3 months has got to do with anything.

 

Because then she'll be 19 which is the legal drinking age in her country.

[Capricorn3]

Because then she'll be 19 which is the legal drinking age in her country.

I understand that part, but what I don't understand is why it would make him suddenly think differently of her just because she turned 19. She's still the same person that she was 3 months earlier, right? Unless I'm reading it wrong.....

[greywolf]

i did once or twice.

 

but what i'm asking is where people draw the line?

 

do you go by the state/province you're in? or what abot where you're from?

 

What if the gal is 14?. What if it's a guy?

 

Honestly, I have a feeling that it has nothing to do with her age. She will be 18 in three months. Since you don't have moral issues against it (you've done it yourself), then I can only think that it's control issues.

[OntheWire]

I understand that part, but what I don't understand is why it would make him suddenly think differently of her just because she turned 19. She's still the same person that she was 3 months earlier, right? Unless I'm reading it wrong.....

 

It's not about age. It's about his sig. other doing something legal vs. illegal.

[FarthestEdge]

The laws exist because society as a whole has to draw a line in the sand as to when 'people' (in general) are capable of making adult, rational decisions. So where you live, your laws say that at 19 people are able to make rational decisions around drinking...

 

But, the truth is, some 'persons' are capable of this at 17, while others never seem to be fully capable...There is an individual component that the law can't account for.

 

Which means that one of the factors in any rational decision around alcohol for a person under the legal age, is the foreseeable consequences of getting caught breaking the law...She still has the right to choose to drink, so long as she is prepared to accept the consequences of getting caught.

 

As for how it affects you, I have to ask, is your concern that:

 

1) Because she isn't 19, she isn't capable of making rational decisions pertaining alcohol consumption (i.e. when to stop, to not drive etc.)

2) Until she is 19, she is breaking the law, which you find morally wrong.

3) That because you ARE legal age, and in a position of influence over her, you feel that you have a right/obligation to guide her, because of 1) and/or 2)

 

If the answer is 1), then you shouldn't be dating her. If you don't believe she is capable of making adult decisions, then she should not be in an adult relationship with you

 

If the answer is 2), you need to remind yourself that you did the same thing (and survived), so judging her is hypocritical

 

If the answer is 3), I refer you to response for answer 1)

 

There are only 3 ways you have any responsibility/right to choose.

 

1) If you BUY her alcohol, then legally, you are contributing to the deliquency of a minor. But then it's about YOUR actions and choices, not hers

 

2) If she is addicted to it, and it's consumption is having a negative affect on her everyday life. If she were an alcoholic, as someone who cares for her, you should want to intervene.

 

3) If you don't like the way she behaves around you when she drinks, then you have a compatibility issue. But you can't control that by pulling the "YOU'RE not 19" card. Because then you are just using the law to control her bahaviour according to your wishes. In this case, your choice is to not be with her at those times, or at all.

 

Beyond that, it's really none of your business. You are either in a mutually respectful relationship of equals, where even if you don't always agree with her choices, you respect her right to make them, or you're not, in which case, there's no future to the relationship.

[OntheWire]

Note that, depending on the country, you can get charged for contributing/minor even if you didn't buy them alcohol. Just being present with someone drinking underage is enough.

[FarthestEdge]

Note that, depending on the country, you can get charged for contributing/minor even if you didn't buy them alcohol. Just being present with someone drinking underage is enough.

 

To which, I commented that he has the choice to not be present with her at those times.

[OntheWire]

To which, I commented that he has the choice to not be present with her at those times.

 

You're trying hard to make a complex situation sound simple. This is not a quick set of if/then's and problem solved.

 

Do you think a teenage girl marks her calendar for pre-scheduled drinking hours? Do you think they always keep their word if they say they're not going to drink in a given evening? What's he going to do three hours into the evening when she decides to go from sober to ripped and he's the one with the car? Will he ditch her there and let her find her own way home?

 

It's best to avoid these kinds of things. They can't be pre-calculated and planned for.

[Agrajag]

I think it might be control issues too. But I guess I'm supposed to at least trust someone enough to say they're innocent until proven guilty. I just have to deal with the fact that she chooses to drink. I think she had poor parenting - whom say it's okay to drink/smoke pot, etc. I felt "rebelious" drinking young the now and again - but for her she's 18 (almost 19) and it's just a social norm for her now. She drinks -with- her parents.

 

I talked to her about it once and she doesn't really see anything wrong with it.

 

I think perhaps something like this was out of her control and her friends/family have just made her say something is a certain way.

 

I feel now though (after our break and time apart before rebuilding here) that i really shouldn't care if she has an occasional drink or pot. I just want her for who she is and the fact she has an occasional drink aside.

 

Does anyone have any idea why I could have control issues?

[FarthestEdge]

Perhaps because you assume that since you are older, you are more mature, and look at her like a child? If so, then again, this is not a relationship of equals...

 

She is 18, she is legally responsible for her choices.

[FarthestEdge]

You're trying hard to make a complex situation sound simple. This is not a quick set of if/then's and problem solved.

 

Do you think a teenage girl marks her calendar for pre-scheduled drinking hours? Do you think they always keep their word if they say they're not going to drink in a given evening? What's he going to do three hours into the evening when she decides to go from sober to ripped and he's the one with the car? Will he ditch her there and let her find her own way home?

 

It's best to avoid these kinds of things. They can't be pre-calculated and planned for.

 

I'm not trying to do anything.

 

It is quite simple. You don't have the right to dictate to others what their choices are going to be. You either respect their right to make them, or you choose not to be present when they do. If she STARTS drinking while they are out, he is perfectly within his right to say "I'm not staying here for this. Here's $20 for a cab. See you later" She is responsible for her choices, he is responsible for his. To give him authority over her is an imbalance in the relationship and creates a parent/child dynamic that is dysfunctional.

[greywolf]

Does anyone have any idea why I could have control issues?

 

Is it because you don't drink often? I'm the same way. I have control issues when it comes to drinking too, just because it's something that I don't do that often, and I suppose part of it is that I was told all my life that those kinds of things are evil and I grew up in a family that looked down on people who did that. I don't believe that now, but I think it still affects me.

[whattodo...]

you should just go out with a girl that doesnt drink!