My Girlfriend's Friend

[HellFrost666]

I am going to try to cover all the details here the best I can. This is kind of a complicated story.

 

About ten years ago my girlfriend was in college, and she had a few classes with this guy, K. Her and K became friends and started hanging out. He was ten years older then her, and had three kids. He started paying her to babysit his kids while he worked nights, and they eventually became roommates. This was after knowing each other for about a year.

 

Then, after six months or so living together, the kids were gone one night after a New Years Eve party, they both were a little drunk, and they slept together.

 

For the next six months or so, this happened occasionally. But they never started a relationship.

 

Then she started seeing someone (her now ex husband) so obviously her and K ended that part of their relationship, but still stayed friends. She eventually moved out and her and her now ex got a place together. K eventually moved out of state.

 

Fast forward to now... Her and K are still in regular contact. They talk mostly online and by text. Once in a great while they talk on the phone, but not very often.

 

I won't say this is something that never bothered me. After her and I were together for a year he came up here to visit. We all went out one night and he came back to our place. There were a bunch of people here that night and he was kind of flirting with her in a joking around way. This bothered me at the time and it resulted in our first real argument.

 

He's been up here to visit since then though, and he's never given me a reason to be upset. Him and I have actually talked online and he has told me that he's happy to see her happy and that I am so perfect for her, etc.

 

I am telling all this backstory so everyone reading this understands what kind of relationship they have. They've been friends ten years, they were FWBs for six months out of the ten years. Last time I posted a thread about him I had a lot of people trying to tell me they aren't really friends and that their relationship was based on sex alone. I don't think that's the case.

 

So now K has this really good job down In Florida. He's homesick and hates living down there. He was born and raised here. His whole family is here, etc. But he's a single father and the job he has down there pays well enough that he's raising his kids comfortably. So he doesn't want to leave the job, even though he would love to move back up here.

 

He can't take time off work to come up here. And he has all this money saved up, so he's been flying people down there to see him. Now he wants her and I to come down there and stay with him for a week. He offered to pay our air fair and obviously we would be staying with him. So this would be a really cheap trip for us.

 

We can't make any plans right now though, since I was waiting to hear back about this one job (Which I guess I didn't get, that's another thread entirely.)

 

Last night I was at my friend's house and she got home earlier then she was expecting from work, so she went online and K IMed her. They had a pretty long conversation. It started as just regular small talk. But then he started talking about back when they lived together a long time ago and he told her that he had feelings for her back then and the only reason he didn't pursue a real relationship with her was the age gap.

 

Her ex husband abused her... And K said he considers it a real tragedy that he didn't act on his feelings back then because then she would have never had to be in such a bad situation. He insisted he's not telling her this now to cause any trouble, he said he just had to tell her because he's sick of hiding it and he felt like she deserved to know.

 

If anyone is wondering how I know all this, she showed me the conversation they had.

 

After that he went on to tell her he has a lot of respect for me and that he knows she is happy with me and that's what keeps him "in line."

 

Through all this she was answering him... But she wasn't reciprocating. She was just saying things like "Wow, I'm speechless." and stuff.

 

So after the IM conversation ended she went and got in shower. When she got out there was a text waiting for her from him. It said "If you ever leave *my name* I hope it's for me."

 

I got home not too long after that and she told me about all this. She showed me the IM conversation and the text. So I know she's not hiding anything from me here. I just wonder what everyone else thinks about this. Is he overstepping his boundaries? Is it a bad idea for us to go down there? I know this was a long one, so thanks for reading though it all. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[norsewoman]

Wow...what an uncomfortable position he put you in! I have to say, for me, at least- it would be very uncomfortable for me to visit him now. While he pays lip service to his "respect" for you, he basically reported that he wants a relationship with your gf. He'd be thrilled for her to leave you and go to him, at least that's what I'm getting out of it.

 

He's being selfish. He knows your gf is in a relationship, yet he felt it was necessary to tell her his feelings for her.

 

Yes, he way overstepped his bounds.

[HellFrost666]

Wow...what an uncomfortable position he put you in! I have to say, for me, at least- it would be very uncomfortable for me to visit him now. While he pays lip service to his "respect" for you, he basically reported that he wants a relationship with your gf. He'd be thrilled for her to leave you and go to him, at least that's what I'm getting out of it.

 

He's being selfish. He knows your gf is in a relationship, yet he felt it was necessary to tell her his feelings for her.

 

Yes, he way overstepped his bounds.

 

Yea... His timing seems so strange. But, when I was reading the conversation between them it didn't seem like him telling her was premeditated. It seemed like it just escalated to that.

 

Since I posted this he texted her and told her he's sorry if the things he said last night caused any problems. He asked her if I was mad at her for any of it, etc. Then he changed the subject and started talking about how he wants a iPhone. Maybe he's embarrassed about his confession, idk. I think he knows now that he probably should have kept that to himself.

[norsewoman]

Since I posted this he texted her and told her he's sorry if the things he said last night caused any problems. He asked her if I was mad at her for any of it, etc. Then he changed the subject and started talking about how he wants a iPhone. Maybe he's embarrassed about his confession, idk. I think he knows now that he probably should have kept that to himself.

 

Yah...do you think he was drinking when he texted her? Being buzzed might have loosened up those inhibitions a bit.

 

He shouldn't have told her his feelings. It shows disrespect for her already existing relationship with you. How does your gf feel about him, and his texts?

[HellFrost666]

Yah...do you think he was drinking when he texted her? Being buzzed might have loosened up those inhibitions a bit.

 

He shouldn't have told her his feelings. It shows disrespect for her already existing relationship with you. How does your gf feel about him, and his texts?

 

Well now that you mention it I think he was drinking. Because when they were talking at one point she said "I think I'll go get me a cold one." And he said "That sounds good, I think I'll have a cold one too." This was before the conversation got heavy. They were talking about his job when this was said.

 

Last night she told me that even back then if he would have acted on his feelings and tried to have a relationship with her she didn't think it would work out. Her, being only 20 years old and suddenly being put into the role of mother to three children would have been hard enough. Their real Mom wasn't in their lives. So, even if not their Mom, she would have been helping his raise them. She told me that when they lived together she would take the kids with her to the store and stuff and people just assumed she was their Mom. Two of his kids are red headed and my girlfriend is also a redhead.

 

And she was also a college student at the time. He was too, but he was only going part time to finish his Bachelor's. He already had his Associate's. So him being a student wasn't as time consuming.

 

She moved in with him after being kicked out of her parents' house. So he was kind of like her rescuer.

 

All these things considered, she didn't think any serious relationship with him would have worked.

 

She said she got a little emotional when he was telling her this stuff. But she didn't let him know that. SHe had no idea what to say back to him.

[bonneidee1017]

Well, with everything that's been said and done--and regardless of if he was drinking or not--his true feelings are out in the open now. Technically, he hasn't been entirely respectful of you, since he openly flirted with your gf in front of you.

 

But even if he'd been on his best behavior from the start, his recent revelation of feelings for her is a real red flag. It doesn't make him a bad guy...but he's definitely put you in a position that, if I were in your shoes, would make it impossible for me to have him pay my airfare to see him and/or stay in his house.

 

Personally, I'd tell your gf that you're not comfortable going down there and, if he wants to visit, he can do so in your town, and you'll all go out TOGETHER. He can't turn his feelings off, but neither can your gf erase that 10 year friendship. I don't think it'd be fair to ask her to end the friendship since she's been very open and honest with you, but I think you're well within reason to put some groundrules in place.

[HellFrost666]

Yea... that whole incident with him flirting with her was over three years ago. I learned later on that it's just part of his personality. He's just a flirtatious person. And he was doing in in a joking way, so looking back on the whole thing I know I over reacted. And I got mad at her, not him which was really the wrong way to handle it.

 

She has been honest with me about him from the beginning. And I know they are good friends. Asking her to end her friendship with him never entered my mind. But now I wonder if it will dissolve based on what he told her. That might make things awkward for both of them.

 

He can't come up here right now because of his job. He flew his sister and brother in law down there a month ago, now he wants us to come down. I know she would love to see him and his kids. And I would be there with her. But part of me just thinks it's not a good idea.

[Miss Firecracker]

I wouldn't accept money from this man.

[HellFrost666]

I wouldn't accept money from this man.

 

I doubt he would just hand us the money. He would probably buy the tickets himself. I see what you're saying though.

[Miss Firecracker]

I doubt he would just hand us the money. He would probably buy the tickets himself. I see what you're saying though.

 

Yes, I meant either/or.

[HellFrost666]

He has been texting her pretty much all day today. It's been all mundane conversation. Stuff about his kids... stuff about her work, etc. But in one of his last texts he asked her when they would be able to talk on YIM again because he really liked talking to her that way. She said she would probably be on some time tomorrow night after work. He said "Just text me and let me know when you're on. Even if it's late I'll get out of bed." He might have been joking.

 

Idk... Things are going to feel weird for a while. Now I'll want to analyze everything this guy says to her. This is one reason it sucks having OCD.

[girlfriday]

Of course it's a bad idea to go down there. He is manipulative to her and has been all the time he has known her even if no one sees it. How can YOU not see it? It is very unfair for a man to tell someone he's in love with her, has emotions for her or generally any concern other than a platonic concern. She is obviously happy and wishes to pursue her life with you and any one should be able to leave that alone. It's SELFISH on his behalf. He can make friends in Florida.

[Jd1983]

I think it's a bad idea to go down there. You don't want to owe him anything.

 

Obviously he still has feelings for your gf, otherwise he wouldn't be telling her that if she was single.. blah blah blah.

 

Yes, I agree he overstepped his boundaries. Clearly it's more than just being platonic friends to him.

 

I wouldn't like this at all either, so you're not alone.

[HellFrost666]

Of course it's a bad idea to go down there. He is manipulative to her and has been all the time he has known her even if no one sees it. How can YOU not see it? It is very unfair for a man to tell someone he's in love with her, has emotions for her or generally any concern other than a platonic concern. She is obviously happy and wishes to pursue her life with you and any one should be able to leave that alone. It's SELFISH on his behalf. He can make friends in Florida.

 

I don't see how he's been manipulative the whole time he's known her. I think that's a little harsh, to be honest. He said he didn't tell her how he felt back then because of the age gap between them.

 

I agree that telling her now was not a good idea. At first he said he had feeling for her back then, making her think it was only back then and not now. But then he sent that text when she was in the shower and it sounds like he still does have feelings for her.

 

Maybe I am missing something... But I don't see how he's always been manipulative.

[HellFrost666]

I think it's a bad idea to go down there. You don't want to owe him anything.

 

Obviously he still has feelings for your gf, otherwise he wouldn't be telling her that if she was single.. blah blah blah.

 

Yes, I agree he overstepped his boundaries. Clearly it's more than just being platonic friends to him.

 

I wouldn't like this at all either, so you're not alone.

 

I didn't even think of this until now. He might expect something in return since he paid for her way down there.

[Jd1983]

I didn't even think of this until now. He might expect something in return since he paid for her way down there.

 

If it sounds too good to be true... it usually is.

 

Genuinely being nice to her, as friends is one thing. However, still having feelings for her while offering something is another.

[bonneidee1017]

Looking at this, it's slightly similar to a situation that I'm currently in, and, actually, it gave me more perspective on my own issues. It's tough, but I'll pass on the same conclusion that I came to (with the help of a few people here): the best thing for her to do is be clear about the fact that she's with you, will continue to be with you, and just wants to be friends with this guy. It's a simple as that. Deep down, he knows he's crossed the line. My suspicion is that, at this point, he's kinda toeing the line, seeing how far your gf will let him take things; testing her reaction before he either backs off or decides to push further.

 

What is your girlfriend's approach to this? If I recall, she seemed to not really respond to his comments, except to express shock...and now they're avoiding the issue all together.

 

Wrong thing to do.

 

If she wants to continue this friendship--and have a good relationship with you--I think she needs to be gentle, but firm in telling him that there's just no hope for the two of them; he's a friend and now that he's expressed himself, its wrong of him to make comments like that in the future. In a way, I can't entirely condemn him for saying what he felt--everyone has that right, IMO--but to continue to press the issue in the future would be highly inappropriate on his part.

 

For now, I'd say, at the very least, postpone the trip down to see him. If I were you, I wouldn't accept him paying for the trip, and there's no WAY I'd stay in his house (why put yourself in such an awkward position?). After a few weeks, or months, if you feel like you can handle the visit, then do so--but, if at all possible, pay your own way. I can't stress that enough. The last thing you need is to be beholden to this guy, even if your visit is for his benefit. And, finally, if you can't afford to make the trip on your own, then just don't go. He'll be back to your state eventually, and considering how much he and your gf talk, I think a longer separation would be beneficial--for both of them.

[HellFrost666]

^ I tried to rep you for this, but I can't because I guess I repped you earlier.

 

I am glad seeing this helped you put your situation into perspective.

[Maya_A]

And after this confession he'd been texting her the entire day?

 

I think he truly has strong romantic feelings for her... Yes, he's said as much I know, but I mean, he truly feels attached to her.

 

You may think I'm totally overreacting but I, like someone else mentioned, think he is being manipulative. I'm thinking that he is thinking/hoping somewhere in the back of his mind that if he can bond with her enough, maybe she will "fall for him" romantically & leave you.

 

What you have in your favor here is that your GF seems loyal, trustworthy, happy with you, and not interested in him in "that" way.

 

Have you asked her how she felt about him way back when, when they were intimate, and how she felt when they parted ways?

 

Anyway - I agree with the consensus that going there is a very bad idea. I'd take it off of the block of even being considered. I also think she should limit contact -- no texting the entire day for example. And also create boundaries around conversation topics. No discussing anything he wouldn't bring up with you right there, and no discussing his feelings for her anymore.

 

It is hugely obvious that this guy has strong romantic feelings for your GF & is not capable of refraining from crossing lines regarding boundaries....

 

Tread carefully to you both....

[girlfriday]

It's not the manipulation that is blatant or clear overnight. He's known her for that long. Here are the reasons why I believe it's manipulation. And I see it this way because I have been in a relationship like this AND now that I am in a healthy happy relationship, HE STILL LURKS.

 

1) Slept together but no "real" relationship. Unhealthy. One night stand, stranger - fine. But roommate? Constantly being together? There's something amiss. You don't mention how she felt during this phase.

2) The BS about the age gap. If you can pursue "sleeping" with a younger woman but cannot "burden" her with his kids than why do it. If it's just sex, look for someone you don't respect. Did he talk to her about a relationship? Did he just assume she would find his children to be a burden?

3) Once she got married and he moved out of state and their relationship ended, why the need to stay in touch? I understand friendship etc., but what did they talk about? What sort of conversations do they have? I find that he stayed in her life by choice (via email/text) so he can sort of see where she is emotionally. He probably sided with her and was a "good guy". I've seen this seediness a hundred million times in "guy friends". It's complete BS.

 

There are a lot of things here that I am seeing because I experienced it - maybe he isn't manipulative as it seems. I am simply assuming that your GF remained platonic throughout all of this, didn't instigate any emotional attachments etc. It's kind of hard to explain this....

[HellFrost666]

Well, this might not make me very popular with you.

 

In response to number one, I am 31 years old, and I couldn't imagine having a serious relationship with a 21 year old. (At the time he was 30 and she was 20, but close enough.) If I was 31 and had three kids to take care of all on my own, and was working full time and going to college part time, and had some good looking 21 year old living in my house, I would bang her. Especially when it's someone I know well and can trust.

 

I really don't see how that is any more or less healthy then a one night stand. I am pretty liberal about stuff like this though.

 

To number two. I posted in an earlier post that she said she didn't think a relationship with him would have worked back then because of her being in college and him having three kids. She said that, to me, now in the present. He didn't say that to her.

 

He did say that he didn't try to start a relationship with her because of the age gap. It seems like they were on the same page about that, even back then. At least it looks that way from where I am standing.

 

As for how she felt back then, she had no interest in being serious with him back then. She was single, she has a high sex drive, he was there, and he was a good lay. She was happy with their arrangement back then and didn't want anything more.

 

To number three... Her getting married and him moving out of state happened over time. She started seeing her ex. Then eventually her and her ex got their own place. Then they got engaged, and got married. Through all this K lived here in town and they were still in contact as friends. Obviously the sex wasn't still going on. Then after she was married for a few months, K moved to Florida. They stayed in touch through all this because there was no reason to drift out of touch. They were friends and their friendship wasn't hurting anyone, so why end it?

 

You asked what kind of conversations they have. Well, K is a tattoo artist part time in addition to his day job. My girlfriend loves tattoos. She's also an artist (not a tattoo artist, but an artist all the same.) They have similar religious beliefs. They are both into Fantasy/Sci-Fi stuff. They are both really into music. They like a lot of the same bands, but they also both can play a couple different instruments. So, this is the kind of stuff they talk about. I also hear a lot of mundane talk... stuff about his kids, their jobs, how things are with her and I, etc. I guess they talk about things that friends usually talk about.

 

I hope this answers all your questions.

[G-Snap]

Don't go to Florida.

 

And after that confession she should not have been texting him all day, even if it was harmless convo.

[girlfriday]

Thanks. I think that clarifies a lot of things. I was only seeing "his side" essentially and not how she felt with the entire thing.

 

I'm not arguing there's something "wrong" with what she choose or he choose. I think sometimes some decisions can be damaging to us overtime whether we know it or not.

 

The age gap thing isn't really an age gap thing but rather a life-stage thing. I still think it's a form of manipulation whether or not you intend it to be. Pursuing a sexual relationship with someone who lives with you is always going to be tough. There are emotions that could have been there but repressed. There are hurt feelings that weren't exposed maybe. What I meant by the "one-night stand" thing was that after a one nigh stand, you don't see or deal with taht person anymore. Despite one's intentions when you see your sex partner and a day to day basis and interact with them - it certainly makes in impact on whatever attachments you have on that person. This could be from both of them or one of them.

 

I am in an age gap relationship - 10 years but we are basically at the same stages in life so it's not difficult. That's how I see it.

 

I do think that in ways he probably repressed a lot of deeper emotions for her over the years and because he feels at his peak of "lonliness" it's coming out for her.

 

I understand friendship and having similar interests etc., but if he KNEW he felt this way about her and he respected your relationship - he wouldn't have said those things. He also would minimize communication with her. I think ti's manipulative in a way for him to "toy" with mind saying those things. I have had many guy friends over the years. Some of them have honestly been platonic and great....others I have seen the same type of excuses and "methods".

 

I think you should just tell your GF your concerns and let her decide what to do since it is HER friend.

[HellFrost666]

Don't go to Florida.

 

And after that confession she should not have been texting him all day, even if it was harmless convo.

 

I really should have been more specific about that. They weren't texting non stop all day. I know the way I wrote it made it sound that way. That's my fault.

 

It was off and on throughout the day. There would be a few texts back and forth, then a couple hours later there would be a few more... This is pretty normal for the two of them on weekends when he isn't working and she's only working one of her two jobs.

[HellFrost666]

Sometimes I think it would be easier if she wasn't so attractive. I know that sounds mean... But she has a certain draw about her. I mean, this guy wants her, my roommate wants her. At least I know she can be trusted.

 

Lol, GF, if you knew the story of how her and I met and got together you would probably think I was a monster. In your eyes I am probably no better then K, if not worse.