rich 1517 - here we go again, scared but confident and awake

[dikaia880]

I know I haven't posted in your situation lately, but taking in your question...three days alone with my ex...Heck ya, give me the chance I would relish the opportunity...I just wonder is she would LOL...

 

I'm not all that up to date with your situation Rich, but I do wish you the best of luck and the strength to do what you need to do!!!

[GeeCee]

Rich

 

That was not the issue for me - how much time you spend with your ex is between you and her. The issue for me was how she allows her son to be involved with you, to the extent of calling you Dad, even though she is unwilling to make a commitment. That was the thing that I was questioning.

 

Rich, I am not a hypocrite. I would go to the woods with my ex. Damn right I would, and I would hope a bear scared us so I could leap into his sleeping bag, and he could comfort me ALL NIGHT!!! But my ex has certainly not put me through what your ex has demanded of you.

 

As to the thing about us drawing conclusions. We can only draw conclusions and make judgements based on what you have told us. Of course, none of us can possibly understand the intricate nuances of your relationship, we know only what you have told us, albeit in extensive detail. And then we advise as we see fit. Not sure that that qualifies as a judgement.

 

Good luck Rich. I really do hope that this works out well for you.

 

G xx

[Scout]

Well since you ask, actually I WAS in the woods with my ex - we went camping weekend before last. It was great...we had a really fun time, laughing, hiking, cooking over the campfire, snuggling, he was very tender and sweet - and went right back to his same old behavior when we got back. Going out night after night without inviting me, saying he didn't think we'd work out in a relationship, blah blah blah. So I told him no more, I was done. And haven't talked to him since. Do I feel great? No, but I don't feel bad either. The situation is obvious, he can't commit, and I am ready for a commitment with someone who is emotionally available and will put me first. So, rather than continue to waste even more time on this dead end, I'm moving on. I put a fair amount of effort into reviving whatever it was we had, maybe more effort than it deserved, so I can't say I didn't try. But am I going to relentlessly badger him into something he doesn't really want? Um, no. At this point, I'd like to keep some dignity, trust and good will to take with me into my next relationship.

[rich_1517]

But am I going to relentlessly badger him into something he doesn't really want? Um, no.

 

Thats the thing im focusing on Scout. you are making judgement calls when you say that. im not bdgering, or calling, or putting pressure besides saying "decide", i know you are confused, "but decide".

 

Geecee and Scout. im not angry i was just feeling a little well, judged. i didnt mean to chase you away or hit back either. i was focusing on the statements that didnt fit.

 

of course you can only go on what i say, but what you say about her son, and possible manipulation ARE important. I only ask that comments like the above be looked at before sharing (if of course that was implied)

 

she has chased me, but with nothing to offer concrete. case in point, im feilding a phone call a day from her right now.

 

my plan, let her talk herself into being in love again. BECUASE THATS WHAT WE DO ANYWAY. sorry had to shout that. no one is perfect, we only make them so.

 

GeeCee i absolutely respect you for your comments about her son. i am trying to figure that one out. right now it stands that i will not do "family" stuff without a committment. so please dont feel i was mad at you or blwoing that off. it has been on my mind.

 

Scout, i understand your frustrations, and good for you for drawing the line. I did it, but after a month i caved in, but its ok. we do what we feel is most comfortable.

[Scout]

I'm just curious...after four months, do you have any set timeline on when she has to absolutely make a decision by? And stick with?

[rich_1517]

um yeah, NOW.

 

seriously? i have asked flat out and prepared to hear no or yes. i may preempt it by saying i dont want to force you into a relationship or to do anything you dont want. Hell i may end up saying it before we go camping, which of course would make it a very short camping trip.

 

but my thought is this. camping goes well, then next week i would take her out to dinner and ask again. will you commit?

[Scout]

Yes, since you've already told her this camping trip is going to be a sort of low-key, no pressure thing, you should wait until its over before you ask her again. My advice anyway. I asked my ex what he felt about us after the trip was over - a couple of days afterward - and he said "we're better as friends." I couldn't believe it...after the great weekend we had. I really have come to the conclusion there is something fundamentally wrong with him, though. He has a paralyzing fear of growing up, and doing the work required for just about anything that doesn't involve partying with his friends.

 

Anyway, enjoy the camping trip...things may turn out better for you than they did for me, and at any rate, you will probably have a terrific time camping! Just don't bring the heavy stuff on until it's over or like you said, might be a short trip.

[rich_1517]

thanks scout i appreciate the advice. for all my confidence and growth, i am still scared of the possible reality that she just isnt there. many similiarities i think with out exes as you pointed out.

 

but this is also about me showing up in the face of that reality too. instead of being in my head. and who knows.

 

but i am sorry your guy is such a jerk, you sound thoughtful and considerate. seems like us types attract the emotionally cavated kinds.

 

but i do believe each one of these "experiences" makes me a better man.

 

wish me luck, this will be interesting.

[rich_1517]

well here we are. camping was nice we kissed and touched more then normal. i started to make a move (too soon) was awkward, but kept myself from getting angry and frustrated. i know you all think im a fool, and that this has gone on way too long. but...

 

i am seeing her differently, i am more removed when we are together, meaning im not terrified or insecure, im just me. i am acutely aware of my financial position and its role in all this. i used to make a lot, now i struggle like so many in the US to just get by. that is now changing.

 

after the awkwardness i asked her, are you wating for something? is there someone else? she said she wants to do whats comfortable. translation: quit smoking and keep a good job. makes me feel like a loser but health and secutiry are big. bear in mind im in the best shape of my life (185 and ripped) and she is about 20 pounds over.

 

all of that doesnt matter. what does matter is a comfort level is forming, will it translate into a committment? i dont know. i told her to call me if she wants to get together this week. she asked me stay late tonight but i decided two and half days was plenty for now.

 

hmm, what to say as to whats next? this all rides on an ambigous "sense" she will have or not. fact is i am free, i am not tied to her or anyone now, i am very focused on my life, at the same time i know she is stuck, she doesnt date, she feels like she looks terrible, and i sense she is sad overall, she draws all meaning for her life right now from her son. if something were to happen I have to ready to accept that he will always be her focus.

 

i did tell her not to be reckless or inconsiderate with my heart, to tell me her truth no matter how bad. im finding that the more i let her tell me what blocks her from me, the more she lowers her defenses. case in point, we didnt have sex, but the next morning she wrestled me awake.

 

sorry guys but i may leave the door open on this one. the difference is the suffering, there really isnt any these days.

 

heres the key for me now. and it will only work if she wants to go there. its about her feelings in general. for whatever reason she plays it safe, far safer then i ever knew. she doesnt trust easily to show her feelings, making the connection between intimacy and that is what has to happen, its also my only real condition: to talk about that and try to work through it.

 

the other girl i have been dating L, i told her whats going on. she says she wants to retreat to a safe distance but still date me. i said thats fine, i like you but i cant guarantee. C keeps waffling for her own reasons but thats ok too.

 

so i feel my integrity is in line with my actions.

 

I have decided i will see the son over time, maybe by myself, maybe with her. i may phase me out of his life if she and i do the same.

 

my best to you all. and as always you advice welcome.

[Scout]

Just need some clarification here...did she say she'd get back with you if you quit smoking and kept a job? I know the smoking part is going to be the hardest! I smoke, wish I didn't, and know how hard it is to quit. I quit for a year and a half, than started again two weeks before the holidays last year. Now, I'm addicted all over again. I wish non-smokers could understand how really hard it is to quit, and how nagging us makes us want a cigarette even more. On the other hand, I know that it's a dangerous, terrible habit that will give us cancer, emphesema, or some other smoking-related illness after we've smoked long enough. And the people in our lives who don't smoke are really frustrated that we continue with this deadly habit.

 

Rich, I also know what you're going through about the financial situation. But - have you given yourself proper credit for starting your own business to begin with? Most people never, ever take that risk, and you should be extremely proud of yourself for doing so. And did you know that most successful business people have had failures and set-backs before their ventures took off?

 

Right now, I think you should be putting more energy into your professional life, because it's obvious that you're not happy with that aspect of your life, it's causing you some insecurities and doubts that you could really do without. I would put that on the front burner for now, and sort of put your ex in the back on "simmer". Does that make sense? The reason I suggest this is because in reading over your past posts, you were devastated when your business took an unexpected turn, and it sort of became a catalyst for several things that started to go wrong for you. Your career, how you make money, whatever you want to call it - this is an area of your life that you are disatisfied with, and I think if you did some work on it, it would make a difference in how you perceive so many other things in your life. Basically what I'm saying is, put yourself first for the next few weeks, and get some control back in this aspect of your life.

[rich_1517]

Now you're talking scout. the carreer is the biggest piece, or my business again. tremendous source of self esteem, identity, value, etc. not so much as everything i am as a man but it nags my brain that the stability isnt there and its definitely a significant factor for a single mom (any single mom). so yes thats job one (after this post).

 

she isnt nagging at all now, she didnt do it terribly back then either, but health and finances are her concerns about me. shes 31 im 43.

 

in a way i want her to nag some, thats how i know she cares believe it or not. overall she can be very supportive.

 

but yeah i cant devote a lot of energy to her, my personal goals and plans will have an effect on her or not, probably yes but i cant plan for it. i have ahd to floar between being a freelance art director and a carpenter for a while now. im good a both but i want something that carries benefits and real money consistently.

[Scout]

Hmmm...consistent money and benefits. As opposed to making LOTS of money and affording a great health plan? I honestly think you can achieve the latter if you put 110% of yourself in your business. But it's a risk, and you can't over-analyze it and think it to death - you have to just go out there and DO it. Trust me, you blitz enough people about your services, you're going to create some momentum that is bound to pay off.

[dikaia880]

I'm gonna jump in...Rich what sort of business is it?

[Scout]

He's an art director and a carpenter, so there are two businesses he could actually pursue. Rich, I'm a freelance copywriter, so I probably work with a lot of the same business types you targeted. It's also in its beginning phases, but I'm seeing increased spending in the business sector again, which is a good thing for us freelancers. Of course, reduced spending was helping as well, as companies were outsourcing more stuff due to reduced staffs. But now that business is picking up, these employees are scrambling to catch up - a great time to call in a freelancer. I've been sending email blasts to people and it's generated some business. But you have to be consistent at it...I send hundreds out a week, and get maybe five truly interested responses, or people saying they'll keep my info on hand. I've picked up some paying clients...I think it's just a matter of staying afloat until I pick up a few regular clients with huge workloads.

[Scout]

A little more about the stability factor...having worked for other people and companies all my life, I never had one job where I felt secure for life, and only a few jobs where I had complete trust in my employer's abilities to keep the company afloat. So I'm ready to take a gamble on trusting myself - never done this before, financially - and it's scary and exhilarating all at the same time! Another thing, with a regular job, you don't have much vacation time...which sucks. I always hated just having two lousy weeks a year for time off....yep, the positives outweigh the negatives for sure working for oneself - in my opinion. Others might disagree.

[rich_1517]

both sefl empoyed and full time have pros and cons. at one time i had my own company with twelve people and we produced a best selling cd rom game and an animated television show. i got reemed over employee/contract issues and a bad faith contract so i surreneded. since then i have been self employed freelance and for companies.

 

i have to rememeber i am a good leader, i inspire the people who work for me but i have been gun shy to do it again. it may be time but not yet.

 

full time telecommute with some office time would be ideal. so i am shooting for that. i need the stability of a regular paycheck. but someday i will start again, its in the blood over half my immediate and extended family own their own companies.

 

heres someting thats a pain right now. the more grounded i get the harder this "game" with her becomes. she called twice today to chat. with very little intimacy involved and unclarity its like i need time between seeing her. fact is it gets less acceptable the more time that passes. im still commited to it, but the casual stuff is annoying without clarity.

 

 

im not sure of my next move. im going to focuse on work and as you say let her simmer.

[rich_1517]

god i can pick em. she is so flat, she hasnt expressed a real emotion in a very long time. today i told her i had a job offer in another state, she has nothing to say about how it made her feel, only about what it meant for me.

 

this makes me sad. i can get a decent position in NY i just hate the commute and not sure i want to deal with the weather. (im in the best weather in the world).

 

i will let her sit with that for a day or two. i have a date tonight with someone else who really does like me, she is just older then i am looking for and im not ready yet.

 

this sounds whiny but i want her to "wake up" and just say "ok" i want you back.

 

she wants to get together tomorrow. i dont know if thats what i want to do. fact is she is still taking me for granted. why is this so hard. i want what i want and i sit in it. thats all this is for any of this, we want our way and we choose to stay in it.

[GeeCee]

she wants to get together tomorrow. i dont know if thats what i want to do. fact is she is still taking me for granted. why is this so hard. i want what i want and i sit in it. thats all this is for any of this, we want our way and we choose to stay in it.

 

You can change the choices that you are currently making Rich.

 

G xx

[Scout]

Rich, your comment quoted in Gee Cee's post concerned me too. It kind of infers that no matter what you've learned from all this, you're going to stubbornly pine for this woman until the end of time. Which means that all the time I've spent on your posts and giving you advice have been for nothing! Ok, I give up then, but I'll still offer my posts from time to time...and wish you luck...

[rich_1517]

no scout your input is not wasted. it means alot to me but i understand. i chose her as the one i want and now i am living with that.

 

the only problem is she is still in the game somehow. I am just afraid to be the one to end it. by continuing to show up as i am i see her differently, it doesnt hurt at much but it hurts to see nothing.

 

but do not feel that you are wasting your time. all of this has lead me to a place i have needed to go. i dont know the next step. i really dont.

[majord23]

rich,

A question - would you not rather be involved in a new relationship?

It just seems that you're beating yourself up, putting yourself through so much emotional turmoil and making a significant effort for someone who isn't reciprocating (effort wise).

 

Now, you can argue that 'that's the way she is'....and while it may be a reason, it is by no means an excuse - having said that, you are allowing her to use it as one.

 

If I remember correctly, your ex had a 'break' to sort herself out and actually set a date to do so by....that date has come and gone and she is still no more committed to you.

 

Remember the excitement of meeting someone new? Getting to know them and having no emotional hang-ups related to them to hold you back?

 

Your ex isn't good for you rich, and I think you know it.

[rich_1517]

arggghhhh. so here we go. L just put the burners on high, i should have seen it. its nice to be wanted and she seems like a good catch, im just not done and not ready, i even told her this. its kind of like you want them to not be in such a rush becuase you may want them later, just not right this moment. she is already planning trips.... so i have to gently slow her down.

 

the ex? we are together tonight, i dont know if i can live with saying goodbye yet. i really dont want to. this is the one i want. i dont know what i am doing here at all.

[rich_1517]

i went to her house tonight. i told her its no longer enough as it is. that she is playing it too safe.

 

so now we wait. she said she will decide by next week. i said what will be different this time? and then she lowered her guard. she admitted she is confused, but not just about us, about herself. she wanted my observation. so i told her.

 

 

see you in a week.

[Scout]

its nice to be wanted and she seems like a good catch, im just not done and not ready, i even told her this. its kind of like you want them to not be in such a rush becuase you may want them later, just not right this moment.

 

Kind of sounds like maybe what your ex is feeling? At least her actions (or lack thereof) indicate. So, she's feeling that way about you, you're feeling that way about the other woman...is there anyone in this equation who definitely wants a healthy relationship with someone who is actually available?? This is a situation that I would hope I would be able to avoid once I was in my thirties...Rich, in your case, your forties. Life is too short for this nebulous, nobody knows what they want or how to work on what they've got scenario. I am almost positive your ex won't make a decision on anything concrete next week...and I almost positive you will stick around after anyway.

 

I guess at this point, this thread is just a sounding board for you, rather than a request for real advice. Which is fine, but than I'm going to start using this thread as a sounding board too: this is the most exasperating story on enotalone!

[rich_1517]

 

I guess at this point, this thread is just a sounding board for you, rather than a request for real advice. Which is fine, but than I'm going to start using this thread as a sounding board too: this is the most exasperating story on enotalone!

 

scout you may be hurting or upset at others, but why would you want to spread more unhappiness where its not needed? i may be a fool but i am trying to not cause harm either. i appreciate your advice in the past and things to consider like her son and the impact on others i may have.

 

but if you are sounding out about your own stuff then why do it here? this is your own stuff if you read back. i can tell you were hurt a lot by a guy from reading your posts on this thread. i think its sad, but I also believe we cant allot misfortune to make us butter either.

 

i deleted much of what went on last night becuase, well it was too cool to want to get smashed down again. she will be over today to talk more. she dropped her guard and admitted she is questioning her decision. that she loves me and is very confused. fact is this isnt about dating, its about marriage, bigger stakes require more patience.

 

in an age of i want what i want when i want it i think we forget that love/loss/regain doesnt happen overnight. five months is nothing when i consider that i may spend the rest of my life with this woman. we are back in orbit with each other again, and she knows i am dating but doesnt want to date anyone else.

 

this may be a frustrating story but dont anyone ever feel that their advice was wasted. nothing happens in our time. we forget that. but the things you guys did to get me through the hard times will always endear me to you.