rich 1517 - i think its time - advice wanted

[rich_1517]

I post my name so you can ignore if you tire of the story, i think i am.

 

ok so she left now over two months ago to "decide" called a lot hasnt dated anyone etc. came back and said, well i see you more as friend but lets date and see. three years together, she waited too long to say anything about her needs and POOF!

 

i tire of the game. i have been using no contact and limited contact. I did tell her i wanted to marry, then pulled away again to give her space. havent actively pursued. but heres the kicker. she shuts down sexually. I finally said "ok i am willing to initiate".

 

so now she says "i want more passion in my life, its my choices in men that have led to me shutting down" ok that does it. i have hung in here trying the "game" to get her back, stayed out of feelings, hid my hurt. dealt with being taken for granted. but thats the one i cannot stand.

 

why? beacuse she wont do joy, strong disappointment, etc. for anyone clued into feelings you cant have passion without those basic emotional needs being met. she blocks them off. dont misunderstand me shes a great woman but she needs to see that those things dont work.

 

the point is i cannot create passion in an area she associates me as the problem with. its time to send the letter that says, hey dating is great, but there is no way i can overcome this and bring passion back to us as long as you see me as the problem. if you cannot consider that basic emotional needs and expressing them to the one who cares for you are the source of passion then i cant do this. its a lose, lose situation for us both and i have to let go.

 

some on this forum would say its too early for that, that i must make her want me more before setting conditions. its not a condition, its a wall that i will smash against and she will stand behind in safety.

 

Yes she misses me, but no she isnt vulnerable to me. those words (nicer of course about passion) and saying i have to let go now and i will miss you are the only way i see anymore to keep my self respect and hers. we built who we were on honesty, i am no longer comfortable playing her, A becuase it wont work, and B: it sets a bad precedent for honesty.

 

without the passion issue being considered i dont see how she would let go.

 

 

I want advice from anyone who is willing to give it. if you dont understand please PM me. thanks

[Beec]

Rich,

 

You know what I think. Wait.

 

Why do you wait? Because if you have her dependent, she will do whatever she needs to do to keep you. If you move before then, you are talking all about your needs, not playing to her emotions. OK, that said, let's look at what you are thinking about saying.

 

First, she knows she has a problem showing emotions and passion. She wants more, but has not been able to let it go. Everyone has emotons, some of us hide them better than others.

 

If you want to bring out her emotions, you need to let her show a little, and make her feel secure in doing so. Show her she can let down the wall or take off the mask, and you won't hurt her.

 

Right now, realize she has the mask up for a reason. She does not yet feel secure with you because of your history with her.

 

If you point out that she has problems, that she already acknowledges, then you are just making her feel more insecure.

 

Now I would bet that there was a smile on her face on Friday. Did she smile? Laugh? Seem to have fun? If she did, isn't that showing some joy? You need to let her know when she shows that stuff that it is a good thing, not point out to her what she has difficulties with. That is like making fun of the kid with a learning disability, instead of instilling some confidence in him, making him think he can learn.

 

While I do urge you to wait. I also urge you to approach this problem in a way that builds confidence in her, not as an attack.

[danimal77]

Rich,

 

I wrote you a novel as a response to your new post and just when I hit send, my computer screen froze. Beec is right. I will add my two cents though and I don't think Beec will mind. It turns out that him and I are starting to think alike. He was my mentor for over a month. I've learned a lot since my first post on Enotalone, way back in mid February.

 

This is what I think Rich and this may sound redundant based on what Beec just wrote you, but isn't imitation a sign of flattery?

 

DO NOT give up just yet. It's still too early. The advice that Beec and I are giving you, is not what anyone else will. Trust me though, it works. It works so well, that they end up eating out of our hands.

 

My God Rich, I wish you can see this. Your ex speaks of a lack of passion. She is clearly telling you what it is that she needs. Man, you have it in you to be passionate. Sweep this woman off of her feet. If you don't have the tools, buy the "Art of Seduction" by Robert Greene. Beec suggested it and it's amazing.

 

You can have any woman you desire in your life and have them do anything for you, but first you have to cater to their desires and just when they think that they have you and you end up feeling used or taken for granted, that's when you flip the coin on them. You pull back and watch them advance and then more emotional fulfillment, but not the way you used to be with her. Be someone new and exciting, while still maintaining parts of your old self. She will not believe it at first, and she will not be so readily convinced or impressed. My ex gave me no indication that she wanted anything more from me than to be civil and polite, yet tonight she told me that she would die for me and wants to be my wife. I don't even answer her. I let her talk herself into it. I'm being the man she wants me to be and she is falling in love with me all over again, but harder than the first time, because this seduction is conscious this time around, on my part.

 

She doesn't even know what's happening to her, but she is convinced that I have changed so much and am awakening these feelings that have been suppressed. We are back full force and she is calling me so much now. I'm not complaining though. This is a girl who was stone cold with me 2 months ago, to a month ago and I felt so neglected, but today, she is chasing me all over town and that will not change.

 

Do not give up. Take her where no other man can.

[rich_1517]

ok boyz, you are my team. im on it. damn this means quitting smoking again. keeps coming back to that. and yes i know it has to be "oh i wuit last week, feels pretty good".

 

my concern about her passion is her pattern, she lets loose with the new guy blaming the old. so if i read you right, be the new guy dont be the old guy.

 

man does this mean i have work. no call yet, which im not sure why but feels about right. i will stop guessing and get to work.

 

guess this means if/when she is dating someone else and says golly this isnt working, i say ok thats fine. right? i almost wish she would, ya know approach it real stupid and reaction based so she makes a mistake. unfortunately not her style, but one can hope.

 

ok so she calls and wants to get together. what would be your suggestions as to how to help her let go and be herself. wait, i will let her talk herself into something she already loves doing, be supportive, aprpeciative, then withdraw again.

 

im still picking my way through art of seduction, takes time to see where and how to apply it.

 

i have to do some work on me then, get the emotional security from the game, thats hard for me im pretty honest by nature. but the goal is worth it. acck.

[Beec]

That's right. It is a tough game to play. No other way to put it. But it works.

 

If she doesn't call in a day or two, then call her.

 

You showed her some fun on Friday. She is still interested.

[LostinVan]

I think I'm finally starting to realise what Beec has been saying (to me in my thread but here too).

 

a) my ex and I fought like crazy. That was the bad stuff. But in the good times, I was sympathetic, I listened, I was nice, I didn't start arguments, I supported her, I had faith in her, I showed love.

 

b) now that we're broken up, I am learning how to shut down a lot of my bad things about my personality - recognize them for what they were, learn from them and come up with better ways to handle those character flaws.

 

c) now that we're broken up, with my lotsacontact, she sees two things - she sees all the GOOD things that we had in our relationship come out of me, and she sees the bad things being handled differently and in a more understanding way.

 

So... today I was thinking... you know what? This is comfortable for her. She sees the good stuff she loved (well, not all of it - the love and affection isn't there, nor is the intimacy which she liked). She doesn't see the bad stuff the way it used to be - she sees it being handled positive now. And she's in a good zone. We're not together, but she gets her cake and eats it too. She's getting the equiv. of heaven right now, and she's going to other guys (or a guy) for the intimacy or loving feelings or whatever.

 

So... time to STILL be nice, but pull back a bit. Show her that she will MISS the fullfilment I can (and continue to) give her. I have to stop letting her have the cake and eating it too. I have to start withdrawing a bit and perhaps she will miss it so much that she has to reevaluate portions of her thinking again. She's VERY comfortable right now, and like I said above, she's probably in some sort of heaven. She has me being nice to her, listening, being understanding, be flexible, not arguing, and when baited (and brotha, she's tried to bait me), I react in a 180 different way.

 

Now its time to take away some of that comfort. Some of tha security. But also, just like Beec coached me, start things moving, ever so slowly, on the passion and intimacy levels.

 

I've felt handcuffed because of her lack of wanting to kiss or be more affectionate, but I hope to develop some tools to start slowly doing this. Beec, you said compliment her on her looks and clothes. I've been doing that for a week or more (rarely, but at least once every day or two); perhaps its time to scale it up a bit.

 

Rich... you're ahead of the game compared to my position... and I'm cautiously optimistic most days... so things are good, guy... have faith!

 

LostinVan

[danimal77]

I second that. Nothing worthwhile in life comes easy and if it comes easy Rich, it's not worth it.

 

I'm an honest guy too and am not being dishonest with my gf. She loves me more than ever and much deeper than the first time around and I understand why this time around. I love her too, so, why complain right?

 

Man, I never gave up on her and she knows that a man who would fight for her honor, is someone worth holding onto. These other men are just distractions. Have fun with her and that's the key too. Have so much fun and smile a lot. Make her feel so comfortable with you, that the chemistry is unrelenting and then watch her passion explode, when you start to pour on the charm. Look deep into her eyes, smile and then look away. She'll be mesmerized. She'll crave you. Change your voice patterns. Talk slower and sexier. Flirt in a way that gets her all hot and bothered. Be bold and even a little bit crude and then laugh it off. She won't.

 

Patience man. It will come to you soon and when it does, you will be prepared to not control her, but yourself.

 

Cheers,

[Beec]

danimal, you are a great promoter of the theory.

 

LostInVan, when you remove it, you want her looking around and lookign like the floor just dropped out from under her. Like you just turned the lights off and she can't see anything.

 

She changed 180 on the trade show in days. I remember. She won't flip back in two days iether, unless you go chase her and beg. But she will and probably has begun to enjoy your new ways.

 

When you turn off the lights, no hostility, no nastiness, just don't give her what she has been feeding on.

 

The most important skill you can develop is to really know how to listen to her words and her body language. These things will tell you how she is feeling, how she reacts when you feed her emotional fulfillment, and when you take it away. Body language and words will show you what things work to make her feel fulfilled, what things have little effect and what things have a negative effect. All are useful.

 

When you remove the good stuff, and then turn it back on, she first realize something ahs changed about you. She will soon want more, and when you turn it off, if not the first, second or even third time, she will soon chase you when you back away.

 

I read and read aboutt his stuff, I examine all the thigns I've seen and done, and I try stuff out. I know when I have chased women, and tried to keep just giving them good stuff non-stop, they soon flee. When I start at first and then never give it, they hang around longer but then get angry. When I give it in sporadic and ever-changing intervals, then end up confused and when the good comes it is like I just got a junkie high. When I turn it off, it is like a junkie who will orb their mother to get a new fix.

 

LostInVan, one thign for you to realize is that you still get lots of a fix from her attention. I see it in your posts. When it is a good day and she is positive to you, you feel great. You still got a jones for her as a drug. Recognize it, but don't go chasing after that fix hard.

[LostinVan]

Beec, just how frikkin' wise are you? You're absolutely brilliant.

 

Basically, you put into more concise words what I was trying to figure out today. And I know she's enjoying the new ways... probably even too much so. Like I said, she's getting into a comfort zone. Time to take it away, at least some of it for a short time.

 

So, the plan is this...

 

tonight, I sent her a short SMS:

 

"Bonne Chance in the media interview tomorrow, I know you're going to rock and roll, girl!" One final (and sincere, I should add) boost. She wrote back thanking me and with a very positive note.

 

Tomorrow. I think she's by at 1pm. I will be actually heading out the door at that time with the pooch for our daily walk (part of my new exercise regimen - about 5km minimum a day walking). I'll say to her "Hey, I hope the media thing went awesome! Tell me all about it when I get back." If she tries to stop me then and there to gush about it, I will be polite but firm - "sorry babes, I have a prior commitment and I'm running late. I should be back in an hour or so", and I'll hop in the car with the pooch and probably take her to a park a couple of miles away from our home.

 

I am sure I can find enough time to waste for two or more hours, then get back to the house. She'll most likely be teaching. I won't string her along too much... this is a fragile time, so depending on how her body language reads at this time (As well as when I leave earlier), I may either say a) I have to get some work done, can we talk later, or b) okay, how'd it go?.

 

What do you think Beec - I hope I'm learning here

 

LostinVan.

 

PS Dude, you are SO right... I am so living for the moment she shows me attention in a postive way. I gotta back off from that.

[rich_1517]

hey guys.

boy am i looking forward to posting maybe once a week.

 

ok since a lot of this is new to me, i need help and guidance. for starters i need answers to questions and comments:

 

"why havent you called?"

 

"are you dating"

 

"this doesnt feel right"

 

"im seeing someone"

 

"another date?"

 

i dont know if any of those will come up, but my gut reactions to them are very different then what i would do to recapture.

 

my instinct now is to be aloof and make her come to me, if she doesnt then just a "hi" call in a day or so. funny no contact gives you practice in being aloof.

 

she was relaxed and smiling, friday. calling me on her way home is a big sign thats like old days (original dating). hell she was joke dancing before we left which says yes shes comfortable, but... she was elbowing me in the chair while we were waiting to dance, i hooked my arm in hers, she slipped it out imediately, so i shifted to a nudge.

 

remember she isnt accountable to her own feelings. so she could still say to herself, well hes the reason i have no passion. so my initial thought becuase she doesnt want physical (yet) is to try and use both sides of me. try this on:

 

"ive been looking at what creativity and excitement mean to me, i mean the components, ive had it all my life but how does it fit in my life. ya know?"

 

and then drop it. if she pursues the statement ill tell her i will let her know what i learn. setting the stage for expanding -> that it comes from other emotions and the comfort of expressing them. this is a side attack on lack of passion. thoughts?

 

where do i look up body language?

[Beec]

Where do you learn body language? Well, a lot of it you probably know you either don't look for it, or you don't believe it when you see it.

 

I did web search using just the following search terms: "body language" and women. A man's body language is similar but different and came up with a number of sites that will give you the basics.

 

I also ran a search on link removed for books using "body language" as my search term, it came back with over 10,000 books. I've read ones recently by R. Don Steele and Julius Fast.

 

Read soem stuff and then go watch people to see how they show things. You'll be surprised. I've used this a lot at work. When you see a lawyer questioning an opposing witness who begins to shake his hand, you know something is up.

 

I like your ideas LostInVan, she'll want to talk about the interview. Delaying it a couple hours would make a point even if only in her subconscious.

 

A lot of us show a big thrill if we get a positive response or get really down if the response is negative or aloof or vague. Fighting the feelings on these things is sometimes impossible. We are not rocks. But showing the feelings can create issues.

 

So, feel, you need to feel. It's good that you have a good feeling when she is positive toward what you are putting out there. But put on an acting job to mask the feelings.

 

You will never be able to entirely hide your feelings, unless you are a virtuouso at managing your body language. (Few, very few can lie in their body langauge.) But if you do your best to remain aloof, you'll be sending mixed signals, which is one of the things you should be doing.

 

Gotta get soem work done.

 

Have a good day all.

[dikaia880]

Rich,

Hows the no smoking going? Good so far for me....this patch, it's great...like I'm smoking all day without the bad stuff...

[GeeCee]

Dikaia

 

Fantastic news on the no smoking. Brilliant. Fabulous.

 

Keep us posted on your success. I need some inspiration because that has to be my project.

 

Oh joy of joys!!!

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

hey Dikaia

i havent made it yet still relying on them to stuff my feelings

 

any ideas on the answers to questions if the come up? see second or third thread this post.

[dikaia880]

Hey Rich... Come on bud, I'm having a great day without my smokes! I really kind of feel free!

As far as answers to your questions, it would be the blind leading the blind for me to answer those. Sorry!

[Beec]

I interspersed some of my responses. Keep plugging.

 

 

 

4. Yes you emotional security cannot come from or rely on any reassurance from her. She'll give some soon. Probably needs to see a few more dates like Friday night. Not many.

[rich_1517]

Beec Thanks

 

Dikia I mean this from the lungs "i hate you" kidding. thats awesome man hang in there my day is coming. soooooonnnnnn.....

 

 

no really. i promise. i swear i will quit, its been coming, any day now, well when theres less stress, come on you know i gain wieght when i quit, hey im looking for a job, get off my back. ill smoke if i want to.

 

eeep. thats my mind. scary huh?

[dikaia880]

No, hey I hear ya bud, it's tough...the patch has done great for me today...normally I'd be a wreck with out my camels...but it wasn't a problem at all...just some dry mouth...plus I gotta make sure not to replace the smokes with more food, I don't want to get chubby again!