do my sexual fantasies betray my romantic desire?

[Lucy__lou]

So I'm very solid in my identification as a bisexual woman, but my sexual fantasies are very very male oriented. What's the deal with me? I'm wondering if I've perhaps psyched myself out of heterosexuality, but that the desire is still buried deep in my subconscious. Admittedly I have only started liking girls in the last 8 years. And over that time I've developed the desire to one day be in a relationship with a woman, maybe marry a woman, and I have very little desire for a relationship with a man. Before I started liking girls, I was very heterosexual.

 

But I've never forgotten what a wise boy once said to me. He said "listen to your fantasies, because what gets you off, that's what tells you what your true desires are."

 

While I don't feel confused, I do find it odd that me, someone who has equal if not stronger sexual and emotional attraction to women than men, fantasises so much more about male bodies than women's? And when it comes to porn, (not that I watch much), I am more drawn to the male on male or male on female, or to be honest, I'm very turned on by the idea of one woman and two, three, four, five men.

 

Admittedly, a lot of my lesbian tendencies come from a political place. I am a feminist, and I despise patriarchy/inequality and so lesbianism is one way I can eliminate patriarchy from my life (by not being in a relationship with a man who has more power in society than me). And while I think politics has a very real impact on sexuality (for example, some people will find voting conservative an instant turn off), I do find it interesting that I have this dichotomy between my politically influenced turn ons, and my outright apolitical desire for sex with lots of men (at once). Mind you, I have no inclination to want to actually do this in real life. I hate men too much to want to actualise these fantasies, but the fantasy remains.

 

I've heard of lesbians being into straight porn, and male on male porn. So it sort of reassures me that a woman can indeed be lesbian and like that stuff, but it's just really odd.

 

So any lesbians who have similar stories of this weird contradiction of desires, please share....

[scared and alone]

of course it doesn't betray your romantic desire! if you're a lesbian, you're a lesbian. thats that. i'm a straight girl (i could never honestly be with another girl. can't stand females and just generally NOT attracted to them.) but, I do have some major girl crushes. hell, I even had a dream once where I was gonna sleep with Carmen Electra (another MAJOR girl crush). lol. so, dont worry about it! it happens! just because you prefer one sex over the other, doesn't mean you can't fantasize about the other sex

[lukeb]

There is a difference between having general fantasies about women and men, and having a special connection to a particular person. I think this is especially true if your fantasies are more sexual than romantic. Many sex fantasies involve power exchange, but that doesn't mean that you want to be submissive or dominant to anyone in real life. I do wonder though if your fantasies are predomonantly heterosexual in nature, if you shouldn't be honest to your real life partner about that.

[Lucy__lou]

I do wonder though if your fantasies are predomonantly heterosexual in nature, if you shouldn't be honest to your real life partner about that.

 

That's a good point.

 

Actually, as I read over my original post, I'm seeing for the first time how my fantasies are like an inverse reflection of my politics. I'm so vehemently anti domination in my outward life, and so I express that by choosing lesbianism for it's greater equality, yet my fantasies are what society often deems to be the exact opposite. While I personally don't see it as a submissive act for one woman to engage in sex with a small group of men, it is commonly seen as such, and even as degrading to the woman. This phenomenon of people who are opposite in the bedroom to what they are publicly is something I've heard about. interesting....

[greywolf]

If you had romantic and sexual fantasies with only men, I would find that a little odd. But people have soooo many weird sexual fantasies that I couldn't base real life on a sexual fantasy. Like lukeb said, maybe your sexual fantasies are more about wanting to be submissive. Maybe you associate sex with men as rougher.

 

I'm so vehemently anti domination in my outward life, and so I express that by choosing lesbianism for it's greater equality,

I have a question about this. I know you said that you identified as heterosexual before. So does that mean that you just chose to be with women instead? Or that you were already bisexual but you prefer being with women?

Please don't answer if you find my question offensive.

[itsallgrand]

To be truthful, I don't analyze my fantasy life nor desires so much.

 

I identify myself as bisexual and have since I was about 20 - mostly bc, since as long as I can remember, my attraction has been both ways.

 

In my fantasies, sometimes there are periods where they are heavily female dominated. Often, actually, unless I am with a male partner at the time.

 

Yet in life, most of 'relationships' have been with men. And my preference for long term relationships has a definite bias for men!

 

So all I'm saying is, unless it's truly disturbing you, I don't see the need really to analyze this too deeply. In fact, in my opinion, there is some danger in analyzing and focusing on fantasies too much or too deeply.

 

As far as I am concerned, fantasy is the safe place. To play with ideas, desires, possible outcomes, all this...without having to actually live with the concequences of acting them out. So they can help us to figure out what we want or not, and to learn about ourselves and all this - but fantasies never should be the things in "charge" they never are in charge unless we allow them to.

 

So basically you are what you are, to me, and your fantasies are just something fun and interesting and sexually appealing at this time. Not much more.

 

Some days I like carrots, some days not so much...you know?

[Lucy__lou]

I have a question about this. I know you said that you identified as heterosexual before. So does that mean that you just chose to be with women instead? Or that you were already bisexual but you prefer being with women?

Please don't answer if you find my question offensive.

 

No that's not offensive in any way. All I can tell you is that I used to like only men/boys, and that that changed about 8 years ago when I had my first girl crush. But I think feminism opened the door for my bisexuality, because prior to taking an interest in and learning about feminist theory, I had a lower opinion of women. I'd been brought up in a society which undervalues women, and I bought into it. Once I realised that women aren't the inferior creatures society makes them out to be, I started to admire more women, and that freed my mind up to being capable of being attracted to a woman sexually. Sexual attraction often results from admiration I think. I am turned on by intelligence, and now that I realise that women have brains too, I'm susceptible to girl crushes.

 

I believe I was born bisexual, but that society taught me that heterosexuality was the norm, and it also taught me that women are weaker than men. I really had to undo all that negative socialisation before I could realise that I could be attracted to women as well as men.

[unabashed]

Ideologically, I think it's possible to live life as a heterosexual and still be able to express feminism. I know men and women who are feminists and heterosexual. The dynamic of power exchange in sexual relationships is not the same as the dynamic of patriarchy in society--at least, not in my opinion. Plenty of lesbians and bisexuals have same sex relationships in which they play out domination/submission in their bedrooms or in their lives--for all kinds of reasons. By the same token, it has been a bit of a surprise to me to realize that many lesbians are not feminists at all.

 

If you are bisexual, I wouldn't be surprised that your fantasies are about men. After all, a good part of your attraction is for men, even if you choose to be with a woman. Even though I have been with men and women, and at one time ID'd as bisexual, I am now comfortable with the ID of lesbian. My fantasies are all over the map When I was married to a man, I frequently had erotic dreams about women. They were very vivid, and I thought they were a sign that I should be with women. Now, though, I sometimes dream about men, so I don't know. I don't doubt my orientation, but I do see it as fluid, over time.

 

I admire your personal insight about how your viewpoint about women changed. I definitely agree that society is very repressive to women, and to anything other than a heterosexual and heterocentrist way of expressing one's self. I think, to some extent, that your friend is right, that fantasies can be a sign of what you like. But, I don't think it's always true. Some fantasies aren't even possible... Some times, it's more enjoyable just to relax and enjoy the ride. Not everything is enhanced by analysis or interpretation.

[pianoguy]

Well, as a gay man, I'm particularly ill-equipped to deal with issues like this, having never had to interact with women, but here goes anyways.

 

I would say, that if you find yourself happy and fulfilled in your relationships with women, then fantasize away, and who gives a care about whether you fantasize about men, women, or penguins (keep that third one away from the public, though).

 

To me, the question is whether you are repressing your attraction for men for political reasons, and that's primarily a question you have to answer for yourself. Do you fantasize about particular men that you know, or is it porn stars or movie stars? If it's the latter, I would tend to say that your fantasies are more fantasies, if it's the former, it might be indicative of something that you might like to see happen in real life.

 

From the way you write, it does seem to me that you have a strong dislike for men, especially the traditional male-female relationship model, and it does seem to me that you became bisexual primarily for political reasons, which to me is a bit of a red flag. (Pardon me if I misinterpret, I don't mean to offend). I think sexuality comes from a much more primal place than politics... in my case, I was raised in a society that said that gay men didn't even exist (rural Michigan), but I had such a visceral, primal pull towards boys with pretty eyes that I took to the internet and researched what could possibly be going on. I didn't even have a name for myself before then, but I knew what I was. Does that make any sense?

 

If you are happy and fulfilled in your relationships with women, then don't worry. But if you simply WANT to be happy and fulfilled in a relationship with a woman, then you might want to do some self-examination.

[Lucy__lou]

Thanks for your post Piano guy.

who gives a care about whether you fantasize about men, women, or penguins (keep that third one away from the public, though).

lol.

To me, the question is whether you are repressing your attraction for men for political reasons,

yes, definitely. That's something I want to make sure doesn't happen. While I don't think I'm repressing my attraction to men for political reasons (I'm more than happy to admit my sexual attraction to men), I do feel that my politics has an effect on my ability to have a healthy relationship with a man. I think it also limits my potential to love a man, because whenever a man does one thing wrong, I'll just give up, whereas I would fight for a woman. I don't seem to bother to forgive men for their shortcomings. I give up on them pretty quick. And that comes from my feelings about men from a socio political place.

 

 

Do you fantasize about particular men that you know, or is it porn stars or movie stars? If it's the latter, I would tend to say that your fantasies are more fantasies, if it's the former, it might be indicative of something that you might like to see happen in real life.

good question. These male bodies which take up a lot of my fantasies are not people I know, they're not even porn or movie stars. They're just faceless male bodies.

 

...it does seem to me that you became bisexual primarily for political reasons, which to me is a bit of a red flag.

Yes, that would be a red flag if it were the case, I agree. And though my particular case looks suspiciously like that, I am now irrepairably predisposed to becoming infatuated with women, debilitatingly in lust with them, and so even though this transition to bisexuality happened late, I believe I always had the potential to turn that way. I don't claim to be of the same ilk as real born gay people like you, or like women who are born lesbian. I don't even feel legitimate marching in a pride parade, because I do feel like I'm not as real as a lot of gay people. But then, as everyone says, women are a lot more fluid in their sexuality than men. Women seem to be much more predisposed to bisexuality than men. Men seem to be more often than not either gay or straight. When you' have a capacity for bisexuality, it's really easy to concentrate on one sex. When you're approaching adolescence and starting to get hormonal and think about sex, if society tells you that your sexuality is going to be centred around the opposite sex, you're more likely to see that opposite sex in a more sexual way. And the assumption of no sexual attraction between those of the same sex makes it easy to be friends with people of the same sex, and being friends with them removes their mystique, again reducing the likelihood of crushes forming.

 

Anyway, for your information, I've never been with a woman. I've never met a woman that I liked who liked me back. I've been crazy about a few, but no luck so far.

 

I think sexuality comes from a much more primal place than politics... in my case, I was raised in a society that said that gay men didn't even exist (rural Michigan), but I had such a visceral, primal pull towards boys with pretty eyes that I took to the internet and researched what could possibly be going on. I didn't even have a name for myself before then, but I knew what I was. Does that make any sense?

 

If you are happy and fulfilled in your relationships with women, then don't worry. But if you simply WANT to be happy and fulfilled in a relationship with a woman, then you might want to do some self-examination.

 

Good advice. I will keep examining my motivations, and my fantasies. I am not the kind of person who would get into a sexual relationship with someone if the sexual attraction wasn't very strong. (which I think a lot of straight people do, in the name of happiness). But then my ideal family is a polyamorous one that is made up of a number of different adult relationships with different degrees of sexual relationship. I think it is sad to relegate anyone who isn't the perfect primary partner to the role of 'just a friend.' where you don't make any committment to each other.... but that's probably another thread....

 

Lets just say that my sexual and emotional desires are less conventional than what I see around me in society. And probably part of the reason I've never had a real relationship with a man or a woman, and why it might take a long time before I do. Thanks for listening pianoguy and everyone else.

[pianoguy]

Just a brief follow up..

 

I think it also limits my potential to love a man, because whenever a man does one thing wrong, I'll just give up, whereas I would fight for a woman. I don't seem to bother to forgive men for their shortcomings. I give up on them pretty quick. And that comes from my feelings about men from a socio political place.

 

Do you have any close non-romantic male friends? It might help to soften your feelings towards men- not the patriarchal system, but men as individuals. Some of us are kind of cool. I know- you need a gay friend! They're the best- ask any of my girlfriends. I'd offer but I'm all tied up at the moment.

 

good question. These male bodies which take up a lot of my fantasies are not people I know, they're not even porn or movie stars. They're just faceless male bodies.

 

That's quite abstract... I would tend to say it's more of a fantasy than something you want to bring about.

I am now irrepairably predisposed to becoming infatuated with women, debilitatingly in lust with them, and so even though this transition to bisexuality happened late, I believe I always had the potential to turn that way. I don't claim to be of the same ilk as real born gay people like you, or like women who are born lesbian. I don't even feel legitimate marching in a pride parade, because I do feel like I'm not as real as a lot of gay people.

 

Oh, gosh, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't really bisexual!! I'm sorry! I just misinterpreted your post. You should feel every right to march in a pride parade- pride is just about being proud of your orientation, whatever it is, or even if you don't know what it is- I've known straight people that have marched in pride parades. If it's something you want to do, you should do it!

 

Anyway, for your information, I've never been with a woman. I've never met a woman that I liked who liked me back. I've been crazy about a few, but no luck so far.

 

Aw, I'm sorry. That sucks- been there, done that. I'm currently hung up on this kid at my school- I don't even like him that much, but he's just so go***mn good looking- 6'2", big green eyes (my favorite), slender, slight accent, tan, and he's a cellist. I mean, come on.

 

I hope things work out for you, just keep putting yourself out there and things are bound to happen eventually.

[Lucy__lou]

Just a brief follow up..

 

Do you have any close non-romantic male friends?

 

I don't have many friends, let alone close friends. Although I do live with a gay boy and we get along very well. I also get along well with most of the straight boys I work with, and would be open to being better friends with them. But I've got a few old threads about my difficulties befriending guys. Another story.

Just a brief follow up..

Oh, gosh, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't really bisexual!!

no offense taken. I didn't take it that way anyway. I guess I'm just saying that I'm aware that the experience of people born gay is significantly different to mine, and that I respect the fact that I haven't gone through some of the things gay people have. I agree with you that Pride is there for people who are more difficult to label as well as those that are straight up gay.

 

I hope things work out for you, just keep putting yourself out there and things are bound to happen eventually.

 

Thanks. I'm sure it will be fine too. I'll just focus on advancing my career so I can eventually make it to one of the world's wonderful homo capitals. (I'm currently living in a small Australian city, and I don't like my chances if I stay here forever).

[greywolf]

I think I know what you mean Lucy. I always considered myself straight. Not for once did I believe I could be bisexual. In fact, I was against gays/lesbians in general. Then my best friend turned out to be bisexual. Because she was my best friend I learned to accept gays/lesbians/bi's and I think accepting it kind of made me accept myself as well. I think before it was something I repressed and never thought about.