Men! Do Ex-Wives come first?

[strength2007]

I have been dating my guyfriend (I am older, boyfriend sounds too young for me) for about 1 year. Initially he gave me the impression he had a cordial relationship with his ex-wives (two).

As time passed, I have picked up that the latest ex-wife calls him a few times a week to talk about how she screwed up and wants him back. He said she just started this, that she is now just mourning the divorce. They have one child together. It has been two years. I pointed out to him, she only started doing this last November when she lost in court to increase child support.

He pays her $2400.00 a month in child/spousal support. She doesn't work or own a car. She calls for money and to borrow his car for the weekend about once a month, and he recipicates! So on the weekend he gives her the car, he tells me if I want to see him, I have to pick him up.

This drives me crazy! I am a single parent, own a home, a car and work my ass off as a nurse. Women like her give our gender a bad name.

Question: help me understand this, is this what ex-husbands do? Please don't tell me what I want to hear, I trully need to know if this is the norm.

[Stambler]

This sounds unhealthy.

 

I have a civil relationship with my ex because of our child. She left me, and never looked back, but she expected me to take care of her. It took some time to establish boundaries (almost 2 years) but I did.

 

I let her know, in no uncertain terms, that we are no longer togehter, and I am only responsible for my son - not her, not her car, not her house, not her insurance, not her finances. She made her bed, now she has to lay in it.

 

Exes (men as well as women) will play the breadwinner for as much as they possibly can.

 

He may not want to get back with her, but he is living an unhealthy relationship with her.

 

Give him an ultimatum. He may just establish those badly needed boundaries.

[CallingAllAngels]

I am newly divorced. I have an exhusband that I would NOT rely on like this. I think it is UNHEALTHY.

 

I can also tell you that I would NOT DATE a man who did this for his ex. Period.

 

Find your self a man who is not so emotionally tangled up in his ex wife. They may be divorced on paper, but, it sounds like he still has some feelings, regardless of what he says.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

 

My best to you.

 

~Allie

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I agree, definitely unhealthy. They are divorced...he should not be propping her up. $2400 a month is a lot of money for child support. He is certainly being milked. She can get herself a job like single women do.

[Stambler]

Yep. Although I pay a lot in child support, it is state mandated. I did tell my ex, however, when she wanted the divorce that I was staying in the house (I bought her out ven though she didn't contribute a dime to the equity - she didn't work).

 

She actually thought I was going to pay for our son to be in day care and pay her enough for all of her living expenses while she stayed home and didn't work! LMFAO! I said "HUH? If you dont wan't this family to be together anymore, go find yourself a job...you either work or stay home with him".

 

She found a job.

[preciousgirl82]

There is nothing wrong with being in contact with an ex when there's a child involved, in fact, it's encouraged. But she sounds very pathetic and wants someone to take care of her. Now that this guy has you he has to let that go. He cant divide himself between you two if he's serious about you. She has to accept the fact that it's over and you have to lay some ground rules for this guy.

[novaseeker]

I have a *very* close relationship with my ex. We speak 2-3 times a day, if not more, talk about everything (not just our son, but he is a frequent topic of conversation), help each other out when needed (like driving to/from airport, pet sitting, moving furniture around, etc.). But it's not romantic at all, there is no yearning to go back to being married to each other -- we just enjoy being good friends and since we see each other quite a bit around our son, it also helps in that area.

 

However, we do not ask each other for handouts, or assist each other financially outside of our agreed financial arrangements regarding child support. That's a line neither of us has ever crossed, and I don't expect we ever will, as we are both very indepdendent in that respect.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

$2400 a month is a lot of child support for one child so he must make a lot of money, which works out to the equivalent of a $29K per year. That is more money that a lot of people make working, and she doesn't pay taxes on that.

 

She should be well able to make a car payment out of that, and should be taking care of herself. If he's caving to this, it is either out of guilt or else they are not nearly as split up as you think they are. Sometimes couples end up in a friends with benefits situation where they do 'date' and have sex sometimes, though don't officially get back together.

 

You can't tell him how to live his life, and some people will go way out of their way not to antagonize a former spouse becuase they don't want the trouble.

 

I would suggest that if he makes sufficient money to pay her $2400 in child support, perhaps he can pop for a used car for her and get her out of his life more. But i don't think he really wants that or he'd be handling this differently.

 

I'd see if it settles down, but if he still is way to enmeshed with her you may need to break up with him and find someone who is genuinely free of the ex and not still playing footsie with her.

[annie24]

yes, i agree. many people out there live on less than $29,000 a year just fine, and have a car, a house, etc.... why doesn't she get a job too? i agree that the lending of the car, etc... rather suspicious. i don't think i'd feel comfortable with this kind of an arrangement.

[tangi39]

While I do agree that this relationship sounds unhealthy- I doubt much will change with their status quo. I realize it's frustrating but you don't have the right to give him an ultimatum here, he has a child to protect.

He may not like it either, but he is trying to maintain a cordial relationship.

Yes, she sounds needy, but really, her lifestyle isn't your concern. He is enabling her , but I don't think that will change by confrontation.

And that child doesn't need more friction between the three adults here.

So you either accept that's how he treats his ex or you dump him for someone who doesn't have that kind of baggage.

You may not like it, but it's his baggage to deal with, not yours. If you don't like him putting her before you, then leave.

I really think telling him how to handle her will only make him angry with you and not change how he treats her anyway.

Accept it or move on.

[annie24]

well, i'd say that the relationship with the ex is a concern if she is contemplating being wife #3 in the future. i'm sure she wouldn't appreciate having to drive her husband everywhere whenever ex #2 needs a car. that would tick me off. i agree though that she likely can't do much about it, except leave him.

[novaseeker]

It's definitely one of the trickier things about contemplating dating someone who is divorced with children. The ex is pretty much going to be very present in that person's life, regardless of whether they are friendly or not. That closeness to an ex can be very challenging for people to deal with, even if they mentally know that it has to be that way because of the children.

 

It created a lot of tension in my first relationship after my divorce. She really had a hard time dealing with how much I interacted with my ex and so forth and on one occasion basically flat out said that she thought that I was trying to maintain a good relationship with my ex and that she thought that this was as much of a priority in my life as she was -- which was correct. This is the mother of my son, after all. But she wasn't comfortable with that and at the end of the day I think she just couldn't wrap her arms around getting comfortable with me seeing my ex-wife a few times a week around my son, and chatting with her often outside of that. I can understand how it can be difficult, but if you are dating someone who is divorced with kids, you have to have the kind of personality who can deal with your BF/GF having a *lot* of contact with their ex-spouse -- as I say, even if the relations are not friendly, there's still a lot of contact.

[tangi39]

I understand she's frustrated, I would be too. But when you get with someone who is divorced with a child, both of those people are permanently in your life. And if you can't handle it, don't be with someone in this situation.

I'm not saying it's "right" - I just don't see his relationship with his ex changing. And what can she honestly do to change this ?

If she confronts him he'll either say he'll stop and just start the 'helping' his ex behind her back. (the likely scenario given the circumstances) Or he'll tell her to mind her business or leave. It's unhealhty, I agree- but he seems very comfortable with this staus quo and thereforeeee not likely to change it.

It's just a losing situation for her. If she threatens to leave, who is he more likely to choose ? Probably his ex because she is permamently is his life through their child. And frankly, how would she feel if he starting dictating how she could and could not treat her ex ?

She can't parent their relationship, it's his to deal with. And trying to will only make him resent her.

And if he won't change (I doubt he will from the sound of things)

Then her two options are to accept this and let it go or leave the situation entirely. If she does want to marry him, then she needs to get used to this ex because as the mother of his child, she will be in his life forever.

And if they do get married, they will have to be cordial for the sake of the child. If she does not think she will be capable of this, then she really shouldn't marry him.

[Excalibur]

You're not getting it - he liked being the knight in shaining armor to a damsel in distress. That became draining over time and he wanted someone more self-sufficient and self-reliant to involve with (you).

 

But he still likes being the knight in shining armor sitting on the horse - and that is why he keeps in contact with her. She's the damsel - he's the knight- and now he has the best of both worlds.

 

He gets to rescue her, and soothe her - without having to live with her and her drama 24/7/365.

 

In this particular case- his child comes first, the mother is attached to the child, and for eternity - not just till the child is 18 - he's going to prioritize that woman having "enough" to allow her to raise his child in the style he wants his child raised in.

 

That she benefits by association with the child - is result of him not having full custody and her having visitation.

[strength2007]

I hear what everyone is saying. or get off the pot. I see the word UNHEALTHY frequently in these post. The knight and shining armour rings true. He feels sorry for her, yet, will he be able to rescue me if I ever needed it? I cringe when I hear myself telling him he is enabling her, it is not my place to dictate how he runs his life, yet, I am investing myself with him and do feel I will be a back seat to this women because she is so freaking helpless. Her family is on welfare, that is how she was brought up, so getting a job to sustain herself and her son is out of the questioned. Stamble, it concerned me that it took two years to figure it out, what was the triggered for you to figured out the boundries? How long does it take an average man to set boundries financially and emotionally with their ex-wives?

[Excalibur]

Look - if he were the sort to run around rescuing 'everybody" - you being self-sufficient would never have appealed to him.

 

Ask yourself if what you're jealous of or concerned about is that every time she has a broken nail - he panicks and every time you have a broken leg he tells you "handle it".

 

You teach people how to treat you with how you conduct yourself while in association with them. you've taught him that you're self-sufficient, self-reliant, you aren't in distress and can handle your own life on life's terms.

 

he's not rushing into rescue you - you're the comfort zone where he doesn' t have to wear the heavy armor that is his to bear as a knight.

 

But he likes having the armor there, the horse standing in the barn.....in case he wants that role again.

 

If anyting - realize that the choice in a partner reflects the individuals perception, self-esteem, priorities, and standards for thier own lives.

 

He chose someone in "need" - so he could be in charge. He can't get the same emotional gratification out of involvement with you- the same self-image when involved with you- that he gets with her.

 

If you were really looking at the situation objectively - you'd ask yourself the following - as you are a 3rd party.

 

Is the environment in which the child is being raised primarily one that you'd want your child raised in?

 

If not.....askyourself why he's not legally seeking to take custody of his child - because if he shared standards with you - he'd be doing that - if youdon't believe this environment she's providing is going to mold, shape, nurture, and guide the child into being a successful adult.

 

I realize he can't force legal custody. That is why I emphase "seek the option for it'.

 

About enabling....it goes like this.

 

Kids are pawns.....or can be.

 

It's not "enabling her to remain helpless and chaos-driven" - to provide for his child because she hass custody. IT allows her to remain in the present mindset and perception of self and life - but she's not looking to change that for herself, and so she's going to seek all assistance and input to provide for the tangible and financial elements that let her remain in this situation....not just him.

 

he's in a catch 22.....she has custody of his child......if he's got na active, loving, very participatory involvement with th echild - he obviously loves the child, wants to parent, which is a positive.

 

he's now in the unenviable position that many young, dysfunctional, irresponsible girls put their parents in - when getting knocked up.

 

The parents do NOT want their daughter to remain dysfunctional, delusional, and a failure - but there is a child in the mix that if there is no providership towards and provision for on thier part - the child will be taken into government possession, or the girl will take the child away from their spnosorship - and go live under a bridge.

 

She'll basically do the Michael Jackson thing - of dangle the baby over the railing, until she gets whatever it is that she wants.

 

Evaluate how seriously he's seeking actively to get custody in a situation for his child that he considers subpar and inferior - that is where you'd judge if he's "enabling" her or not.

[Stambler]

Stambler, it concerned me that it took two years to figure it out, what was the triggered for you to figured out the boundries? How long does it take an average man to set boundries financially and emotionally with their ex-wives?

 

My good friend allie from eNA was talking to me on the phone one night and I was carrying on about helping my ex and bering afraid to say "NO".

 

Allie said:

 

"If we were dating and having this conversation.. we wouldn't be dating!"

 

That plus my therapist drilling it into my head.

 

It also takes a bit of weaning them off depending on you - one has to be a diplomatic about it!

[tangi39]

I'm sorry to tell you some never do, especially with a child involved.

I really wouldn't expect him to change this behavior.

I also wouldn't wait for anything major to change or you might be waiting forever. He has to want to change this and it doesn't sound like he does.

So you have to decide whether or not he is worth putting up with all of this.

 

IMHO, as long as they share custody he will keep taking care of her first and you second. You are right, if you want to continue this relationship, this is something to seriously consider. Will he be there for you ? I don't know.

But you should some take some time to think about this before getting really serious. Regardless, I really wouldn't bring her family into this argument, you'd just be opening up a huge can of worms.

Keep in mind, even if he's not now, he was once closer to this person than anyone else. And even with no romantic connection involved (and especially with the child) there's still a level of care, trust, understanding and yes, love there. And that's a line you don't want cross or try to break.

It will only result in you getting hurt.

Just remember, his behavior is his choice and has nothing to do with her.

He is choosing to treat her this way of his own accord. You can say, Well, she this and she that" but at the end of the day it's him forking over the money and perpetuating this cycle with her.

I think it's in your best interest to step back and figure out if you can really handle this or if it's time to walk away.

[Excalibur]

If you can provide for yourself and your child - why do you need him to provide for you and your child?

 

I can't see the problem with him providing for her and his child - because she's irreponsible and won't and he doesn't have custody - as long as he can contribute what covers his expenses towards your shared living situation.

[Stambler]

I'm sorry to tell you some never do, especially with a child involved....

 

...IMHO, as long as they share custody he will keep taking care of her first and you second.

 

The key word here is SOME.

 

It was painful for me, but I managed to break away from my ex, and separate my child's well being from hers.

 

Although she left me for someone else, she was devastated when I finally said "I am no longer responsible for you, we are no longer a couple... you are on your own - this is what YOU chose".

 

It was difficult for me, but she managed. She's fine, and she now knows where she stands!

[novaseeker]

Keep in mind, even if he's not now, he was once closer to this person than anyone else. And even with no romantic connection involved (and especially with the child) there's still a level of care, trust, understanding and yes, love there. And that's a line you don't want cross or try to break.

 

This is an important point. It obviously depends on the specific dynamics of the situation, but I don't think trying to interfere there will do much good at all -- more likely you'll get a defensive reaction, because he sees it as a part of maintaining his relationship with his children, and when push comes to shove, the kids are going to take precedence over you.

[CallingAllAngels]

The key word here is SOME.

 

It was painful for me, but I managed to break away from my ex, and separate my child's well being from hers.

 

Although she left me for someone else, she was devastated when I finally said "I am no longer responsible for you, we are no longer a couple... you are on your own - this is what YOU chose".

 

It was difficult for me, but she amnaged. She's fine, and she now knows where she stands!

 

I completely agree with this.

 

I know many people who are divorced, and the man is NOT constantly taking care of his ex wife.

 

Once you are divorced, you are responsible for your children ONLY.

 

You need to set those boundries and stick with them. Period.

 

As I did say, I would never date a man who was constantly being taken advantage of by his ex-wife.

[Excalibur]

Critical to note:

 

There are ex wives and ex husbands - but there are never ex-children.

 

So when you date someone with children, you are immediately getting an extended family of thier "ex" not just their child.

[tangi39]

I completely agree with this.

 

I know many people who are divorced, and the man is NOT constantly taking care of his ex wife.

 

Once you are divorced, you are responsible for your children ONLY.

 

You need to set those boundries and stick with them. Period.

 

As I did say, I would never date a man who was constantly being taken advantage of by his ex-wife.

 

 

I agree that he SHOULD, but I don't think he WILL. He hasn't set any boundaries, so after 2 years it's unlikely he will unless he chooses to.

And I think he CAN, but doesn't WANT to. And as long as he doesn't want to, there is nothing she can do.

 

As Excalibur said, he likes being the knight in shining armor to his ex, a role he does not sound willing to give up.

 

Some men Do set the boundaries and kudos to those that do. I think they should. And of course every man is capable of doing so.

But there's a difference between capable and willing.

Every person is different. And this particular man seems very co-dependantly emotionally attached to his ex. And he likes it.

That's not going to change just because his current gf is uncomfortable with it.

So she can either wait for him to come around (which may or may not happen) Or leave the awkward situation.

 

He has got to be his own catalyst for change here. Nobody can do it for him.

And if he refuses do it, no amount of persuasion from any source will do any good. He clearly likes the relationship he has with his ex or he would have changed it of his own accord. It's been 2 years, he's had ample time.

[novaseeker]

Critical to note:

 

There are ex wives and ex husbands - but there are never ex-children.

 

So when you date someone with children, you are immediately getting an extended family of thier "ex" not just their child.

 

Indeed.

 

The OP's situation, to me, is a bit on the extreme side due to the handouts and the car loanings -- that's over a boundary I would not personally cross with my ex. But, certainly the ex is going to be a part of my life forever -- she's the mother of my son. Part of having a relationship with my son and helping him be raised properly (and prosper later in life as well) is tied up with maintaining a good, close relationship with his mother. Again, there have to be boundaries, but I don't really agree that you can surgically separate your relationship with your child from your relationship with the child's other parent -- certainly not without your relationship with your child suffering, and perhaps the child suffering as well.