roles of men and women?

[neva_black_n_white]

hey everyone,

i hope that this does not become a debate or even an argument but i would like to know how everyone feels about the roles of men and women.

 

do you feel there is equality and how do you feel about the roles?

 

please answer truthfuly and respect others views.

thankyou.

kel

[vfunkera]

heya i read ur argument with that idiot who went on dissing women. i hope its still not on ur mind cos he didnt really sound like hes actually ever socialised with girls or women, so dont let it get to you. i certainly cant survive with out a woman's advice some where!

i would also like to know the role of women, not just in life, but in a relationship as well, and what they expect from their guys. i got dumped by my girl for making her feel like a princess, so im kinda confused. as a guy, i just live a life i want and have a girl that will b there for me, and who will understand me.

 

[Gilgamesh]

The "roles" just depend on who searching, what I find ideal in a womans role with me may not be the same as somone elses.

 

you cant pin down a certain thing and say thats the way its gotta be.

 

The trick is finding a partner that meets each others expectations, and thats what its all about. as long as they are happy together it dont matter what roles they play, they shouldnt be slaves to anyones elses view of how they think they should act to be happy.

[materia_goddess]

oooo haha i was waiting for this question, and i knew it would come up sooner or later.

 

although we're all human, we are so different, and that even shows on this forum.

 

id love to think there is equality and justice between the sexes, but there are always those instances where the fine line becomes much bigger. i dont think its the male populations fault, but how society has built and what it has built on. as we all know woman have had it tough.....real tough. even now differences show. things such as rape, sexual abuse, harassment, and racism are still affecting many woman, and in some cases are becoming more ramped. ofcourse men are also effected by these issues but not to the same extent.

 

haha i must say i have had my share of anger towards the opposite sex. for instance i will be walking home from somewhere and about 5 cars will drive past and beep and whistle and stare. some girls may like this but it makes me feel incrediably uncomfortable. also things like if im walking by myself and a group of boys are ahead, my heart instantly stops, expecting anything to happen (usually the worst.......) then i think to myself "please dear god dont let me get raped.......this wouldnt happen if i was a guy!!!" and so on. lol well there are some loosers out there, but not all guys are like that. and girls arnt perfect either. (any guys been through a similar experience? lol id be surprised)

 

i think its going to be a very tough struggle getting woman to the equal length of men, but we have come SO far, and we should all be very proud of our sex (be it woman OR man!).

 

i had a similar discussion with my brother on the same topic. his views are that woman will never "truly" be equal because it is the way of creation. men are built different to woman to emphasis this difference in stature. stereotypically we have things like male and female physical strength (and in some cases mental strength, where woman are usually more in tune with their emotions), and the roles of woman in history as being involved only in the domestic environment. this prejudice is even evidenced in things such as fairy tales (ie the damsel in destress and the gallant knight) and even in movies (not many woman heroines out there!)

 

not meaning to make this post so long, as im just writing ideas as they come. sorry if i sound terribly one sided but most of my friends are HUGE feminists. im not one myself, i dont like to think in that fashion, but they always do things to push the involvement of females, for example instead of saying checking their email, they'll say female and so on.

 

ok ok im ending this now. i think ive made my point. actually even im not sure what my point is so i have no way to conclude this. perhaps i'll just leave it by saying no we're not equal, but we're getting there......i hope!

 

ps. this is a real good post.....im glad i got to vent that to someone! im interested in what others have to say!

[Happy_Go_Lucky_Heb]

lol...

 

Hey, its happy I think SwingFox had a slightly similar post to this one a few months ago. Sometimes I don't really know what to think or what I want.

 

It really comes down to decisions I think, who wants to stay behind to look after the child? both? then I don't think anyone can get a full-time job. If none, then would b accept the fact that you'll miss out a little on various parts of your childs life? I think that's what it really comes down to isn't it, the kid? Because without that what roles are there? we're just people, what roles do we need to take on as members of the opposite sex? It depends on what the couples want. In todays world, I don't think there're definate expectations anymore.

 

In a relationship...all relationships are different and sometimes girls take on the more assuring role whilst guys are more shy instead. But overall I believe girls should hint what they want and not do it, or maybe tell the guy because if they do it, the guy will wanna do it as well, but to what level before she becomes uncomfortable or doesn't like it..it's a bit complicated to explain but perhaps you can get the meaning of it. They should say what they don't want instead of making a big deal about it at an unecessary time and if they hadly tell their guy anything, at least make him feel luved and safe within the relationship.

 

Happy Heb

[materia_goddess]

hahaha oh dear......i just read the previous posts, and i think i may have taken the question a bit too far! was this just on relationships?

 

man do i feel silly lol

[OmegaMan]

hahaha oh dear......i just read the previous posts, and i think i may have taken the question a bit too far! was this just on relationships?

 

man do i feel silly lol

 

You shouldn't, you've pushed the discussion to another level, and that, In my opinion, is what discussions should be all about.

 

hey everyone,

i hope that this does not become a debate or even an argument but i would like to know how everyone feels about the roles of men and women.

 

do you feel there is equality and how do you feel about the roles?

 

please answer truthfuly and respect others views.

thankyou.

kel

_________________

 

Why shouldn't it become a debate? Is it your moral premise that debates have to be disrespectul? I wouldn't agree, I love how people think differently from one another. And when two opinions clash, there's some good chances that both sides will change some of thier life phiosophy for the best.

 

In order to answer to this question, to the best of my knowledge, I will quote certain passages from one of my earlier post.

 

For god sake's, please enough with stereotypes Girls like pink and guys like blue. Gilrs become secretaries and men work in steel mills. Ah c'mon.that's outdated now. Generalities and stereotypes, who needs them. The way I see it, it's just an oversimplification of everything, the intellectual laziness to the extreme. «Oh girls are like this and men are like that», certitudes drives men (and women) blind. Earlier in this thread I've read that girls were more cerebral!! How could anyone make such a statement?

 

This proves my first point when it comes to social roles, enough with the stereotypes. If some people would feel like adopting certain generaly adopted kind of behaviours, fine. But as for those who don't fit in wth a certain kind of role, please don't. I know it's not the issue here, but I've seen to many people lose their identity in the so-called norm. The previous paragraph could be resumed to what Gilgamesh mentionned:

 

you cant pin down a certain thing and say thats the way its gotta be.

 

Although I wouldn't go as far as say that you can't have any expectations as to what the roles of the opposite sex might be. I thinks it's natural to have certain kind of non-rigid expectations towards member from the opposite sex. Or as Gilgamesh said:

 

The trick is finding a partner that meets each others expectations, and thats what its all about.

 

Sums it up pretty well.

 

As far as physical differences go, I think some biological (thus psychological) traits facilitates certain kind of behaviour. In the sense that men might be more enclined to work in certain jobs whereas women might be drawn toward others. Same things with so-called roles (which sounds give of strict).

 

his views are that woman will never "truly" be equal because it is the way of creation.

 

Well, I suppose it depends on how your perceive equality. I strongly believe women will be equals to men someday. Actually, considering the high rate of school drop out among men, and a very high rate of education among women, women might actually have the upper hand at some point. And then men will unite just like the women did to bring back a relative equality.

 

not meaning to make this post so long, as im just writing ideas as they come. sorry if i sound terribly one sided but most of my friends are HUGE feminists. im not one myself, i dont like to think in that fashion, but they always do things to push the involvement of females, for example instead of saying checking their email, they'll say female and so on.

 

I believe equality should be the main concern of feminists. I sometimes have the feeling that they want to go beyond equality and occupy a position of higher power. This tends to get on my nerves.

 

As far as role for men, I've read a lot of clichés here about some men behaviours. I think this is the consequence of the disappearance or the weakening of well defined role. Men now find themselves confronted by a context in which they have to find out who they are by themselves. Some, the majority I believe, will tend to favor stereotypes and then, with time, decide wether or not those stereotype fit in with what they actually are.

 

That's all I have to say on this very interesting topic I honestly hope more people will participate in this discussion and share what they think with the world.

 

Omega Man

[neva_black_n_white]

hey there, i would like to say i love debates and the discussion of two sides of an opinion or several more, but if you were not online there was a sligth disagreement that was taken too far as mentioned by vfunkera and thereforeeee was just saying please dont take others opinions to heart like i did last night.

thanks.

kel

 

and thankyou everyone so far i quite like this 'discussion' and materia_goddess i liked the depth so dont worry i also have the same feelings as you whilst going out, that is not that i am underminding men but possibly because of medias events and such, on the topic of rape etc.

 

iw ould love to hear everyone else opinions....so feel free to join in.

 

 

[Renaissancelady]

Hi vfunkera, hi there. I'm just that sort of girl who wants to be treated like a princess. Fortunately, my boyfriend measures up to my expectations. The only problem is that he talks too too little. Oh, gosh, I haven't found anyone who sends e-mails to his girlfriend only once in a month and now is the 10th. What can I do about this?

I think he's too obsessed with his career, and me or say women for him or most men are just not as important as their career if the job they are having are what they are fond of. But for most women, i think that love is definitely the first thing in life, just like the lyrics of From This Moment On. What can I do to stimulate him up ?

[OmegaMan]

Hello there,

 

Would you mind being clearer as to your opinion of the role of men and women are in your reply? I can't quite make out what it is...

 

Thank you in advance...

 

Neva I suppose this discussion has been erased right? I have to admit you kind of aroused my curiosity as to what was said in the discussion you are referring to.

 

Omega Man [-o

[sisterlynch]

Pretty open ended question, what do we find in the anwer chest?

 

Are the rolls of the male and famale equal and defined? No!

 

Can we make small changes in our lives that help us to live in a more complete union with the opposite sex -- yes!!

 

AS soon as we realize that we all have our own perceptions about what it means to be male and female in our own society -- and where we live and in our own head.

 

Men are normally taller and have greater physical strength. Men are more focused in their approach to things, like work.

 

In contrast we women must learn to be more assertive in our approach and learn never to take a back seat in any way!! Don't settle in other words, keep on communicating!

 

When the relationship breaks down it is normally over communication--which women know means talking, men think that communication means sex. Don't lie, guys you know that one is true!!!

[neva_black_n_white]

yeah i agree with that one, but i also feel that there is a minority our there that dont feel like that. i completely agree with you answer sisterlynch and feel that we can make a difference. we do need to make a stand and on a personal level no way do in stand back....if anyone out their does stand back to the males or even a male to a female why is it that you do that? are we intimidated by the opposite sex?

 

and OmegaMan yes it was erased it was along the same lines as this but the person responding put it accross on a biased personal level against me, which then offended me ending with the reason i put what i did in the start. and if that dudes reading this, then no bad feelings. (although it was offensive) anyways....thanks

 

kel

[OmegaMan]

Pretty open ended question, what do we find in the anwer chest?

 

I don't know what we find in the answer chest, except probably a different answer for each one of us, as there probably as many truth out there as there are humans

 

Are the rolls of the male and famale equal and defined? No!

 

Can we make small changes in our lives that help us to live in a more complete union with the opposite sex -- yes!!

 

AS soon as we realize that we all have our own perceptions about what it means to be male and female in our own society -- and where we live and in our own head.

 

Amen to that!

[-o

 

In contrast we women must learn to be more assertive in our approach and learn never to take a back seat in any way!! Don't settle in other words, keep on communicating!

 

I take it you mean this in a general sort of way, in the sense that you consider that the majority of women won't take the back seat. Which I suppose is truer now than it was before. But to what extent I wonder?

 

When the relationship breaks down it is normally over communication--which women know means talking, men think that communication means sex. Don't lie, guys you know that one is true!!!

 

I don't agree with that. I know you'll say there are exceptions, but that's a given in any situation. I'm studying to become a social worker so In a field dominated by women. Well, you would be surprised as to how many of them would rather have sex and express themselves that way than communicate. This is probably because the Roles aren't as strict and defined as they used to. I believe one consequence of that is women who adopt previously categorised men behaviours, such as having sex instead of talking. I think we all know someone who acts that way.

 

My point is, there are no absolutes, more importantly, I believe that as time goes by, no, in our current modern time, the roles are getting less and less defined to the point the roles are getting mixed up between both men and women. I think this will be more and more dominant with time.

 

My thoughts on the subject. I really enjoy those conversations, there should be a section about philosophical debates on enotalone.

 

Neva

 

That's a shame, I hope you didn't take any of what he thought seriously. I believe that we should only pay attention what other think if we respect them. Why should we care about someone thinks about us, if we know for a fact that the intentions are malevolant or disrespectful?

[neva_black_n_white]

hey there omegaman.

 

i liked how you answered the question of what do we find in the answer chest...

 

I don't know what we find in the answer chest, except probably a different answer for each one of us, as there probably as many truth out there as there are humans

 

i believe that you did well at explaining that, everyone has a different opinion and maybe we wont come to a conclusion but im betting some of us learn from what we hear and decide now to change our opinions on some aspects. so yay, i liked that one.

 

wow your studying to be a social worker, im impressed, at the moment im applying to do something as such as that. to me its intriguing about the world of work, with that of memebers of the society, children and the development of studies.

 

anyhow i agree with the statment of women who do express their emotions and feelings through sex, it isnt just men and im glad you brought it up. i feel that women (even though i am one) are now the sex who tend to 'play' around so to speak. how does everyone else see this?

 

yes women could well become the more domenant one, but is this what we want? dont we just want people to be equal and no longer hold the fort of high status or overpowering, yes it is an achievemtn and us women have come along way....but will we change into what we have hated for so long?

 

and i agree again omegaman i feel there should be a dbates forum, i feel that we could learn alot from it

 

That's a shame, I hope you didn't take any of what he thought seriously. I believe that we should only pay attention what other think if we respect them. Why should we care about someone thinks about us, if we know for a fact that the intentions are malevolant or disrespectful?

thankyou, in some sense i did take it personally, but how cant you, despite that they dont respect or know me it was very personal. i hope to stand by that one day and not be effected so thanks again.

 

kel

[materia_goddess]

WOW!!!!! lol this discussion rocks!!!!!! haha and i thought i'd look like the stupid one here! alot of people who have spoken, have some very indepth idea's on this topic. im gonna give me another go!

 

it would probably be very hard to draw one conclusion from it all, as we all have our own opinions on the topic. all in all, writing about ones gender in relation to the other will always seem more willing to defend ones own. for example, it would be very unlikely that a female would come on and say "woman suck, male power forever!" kind of thing. sure i may have WAY over exaggerated that, but you get what i mean. how can one gender fully understand the works and ways of the other? im not totally sure if it IS possible. we can only go by personal, and historical understandings. present day is just an echo of the past anyway, so we are all effected by previous occurrences. in order to achieve the equality which we seek, the past must be forgiven and in some sense forgotten.

 

bottom line: mistakes have been made, and stereotypes have been set. we can all be against stereotypes, but it is part of our social structure to place things in boxes. keeping things in order and so on. this is the way of society, and will probably always be like this. what we SHOULD aim for is variety within more personal matters. things such as gender should not be a competition on which is better. we are different and that is it!

 

perhaps thats all it is. a race. who is better. thinking like this will never achieve equality. omega man, i agreed with you, where you said that feminists seem to want what they protest to hate. and if either gender is considered above the other, then the whole vicious cycle will just repeat itself, regardless of who's infront.

 

no one can win in a race such as this. after all, we ARE the same species, we should find no need to specify any further than that.

 

(i really hope i stayed on the topic here.......i have a tendency to go off on tangents)

[Voyager]

I don't think the genders are different, but we get treated differently. It can be very helpful to learn how the "other side" sees things.

 

I have a good friend of mine who is extremely, completely male, in his interests, dress, the state of his room, everything. He's also gay. That makes sense to me. Femininity to him is a cipher, it's incomprehensible. Why would he want to spend time with any women?

[neva_black_n_white]

hey voyager.

its nice to hear your two cents and think that the opinion youve stated is correct and i would agree with that to an extent. like you said thats your opinion, i was just wondering why you think that he no longer needs a woman? women arent just there as a relationship but maybe i took that the wrong way.

 

anyway thanks for your responce and maybe you could elaborate.

kel

[Voyager]

Thanks!

 

He doesn't like women or associate with them because he can't understand them at all. And the feeling is generally mutual. He doesn't even think about them, their existence barely crosses his mind, except for his sister.

 

I think it takes a little femininity for a guy to be able to relate to women, and vice versa. It's interesting, because we somehow think of the most masculine guys as being players or whatever.

[neva_black_n_white]

thanks i can understand what you mean now, so it was his choice of not understanding women not being made to or brought up that way. thanks for elaborating on that.

 

i agree with the stereotype of masculine and hard men so to speak being players but that is not correct its just a judgement over years.

thanks for explaining those things to me.

kel