Body image and sex

[LubBec]

I was reading some posts in another thread about body image and the role it plays with sex.

 

Here's my story.... the short version. I'm told on a relatively regular basis that I'm pretty, beautiful, attractive, sexy. I know what you're thinking.... I must have a huge ego. You're wrong! I have a total bottomless pit for a self-image. I hate the way I look. I feel like a true freak of nature.

 

I used to be heavy. No, let me rephrase that. I used to be REALLY heavy. Several years ago.... about 8. I decided to do something about it. I completely changed my life. I dropped a LOT of weight and I have managed to keep it off. I am of average weight for my height of 5'8''. About 2 years ago, I got implants. I work out 7 to 8 hours per week. I run, do strength training, spin class, etc. However, I have some excess skin that makes me CRAZY! Most of it is on my thights and butt. I literally can't stand to look at myself in the mirror. In fact... I won't!

 

My husband tells me that I'm beautiful. He tells me that my body is beautiful all the time. He tells me that those little things about myself don't matter. My friends tell me that I am pretty. But the problem is, I don't feel beautiful. I don't want to let my husband (or anybody else for that matter) see me naked. It GREATLY effects our sex life! It doesn't help that my husband had an affair with someone who has a perfect little petite body with NO fat who also happens to be 8 years younger than me. YEAH, sure I want to let him see me naked, now. NO FEAKIN WAY! I feel that he will always compare me with her or with anybody who doesn't have the flaws that I have.

 

HELP! Can anybody out there relate? I'd like to hear from the guys who are with girls with less-than-perfect physiques. Do the flaws bother you? Can you honestly think your wives/girlfriends are beautiful and sexy even with a little extra padding here and there? What about other physical flaws? Do they hinder your attraction to her? I TRULY need to know!

[seaneKY]

My g/f who is quickly becoming the single most amazing woman I have ever met has the same problem you do. She will go into the master bathroom and take her clothes off and then run into bed while I am forced to keep my eyes closed until she is under the covers. Or she wont get completely naked at all. Her extra weight truthfully DOES NOT BOTHER ME I am very much attracted to her and I very much want her. Sex is as much of a bonding act for me as it is pleasurable and I believe when their is truly love involved it makes a differance in being objects and being a person. Don't make yourself an object. If he says you are beautiful he means it. Its an important part of the relationship to share everything with eachother including total trust in our partner to see our naked body which is something not many get to see in our lives. Be empowered. Take control and above all dont be insecure. He wouldn't say it if he didn't mean it and trust me it probably bothers him in a way.

[zippitt]

You might want to talk to a doctor about your self image. As you seem to know it's all in your head.

 

Although your husband cheating on you is a great way to kill anyones ego despite your appearance, but at some point you have to move on.

 

As far a physical flaws, they do not bother me at all, even the extra padding. When I fall in love with someone I fall in love with ALL of them. I personally wouldn't date anyone that I was at least attracted to. And if things become more serious it because their personality has hooked me and then nothing else matters. Heck I like women with a little tummy, I find it sexy.

 

One girl I dated had big feet, she was very tall. I ignored it for a while and once I fell in love with her I missed those feet. So I think most of us don't even care about imperfections when we have feelings for our SO.

[ResonanceTheory]

I feel you, Lubbec. I'm 5'4, and I used to weigh 178 lbs. Nowadays, I weigh around 138. Although I'm not tiny skinny, I'm certainly not fat. I wear this weight well, and it's a dramatic change for me. I went from being the kind of girl that no one would look at, let alone consider for a date, to being the kind of girl that guys call "hot". Unfortunately for the average scumbag skirt-chaser, I have a personality and a brain, too!

Before I lost all the weight, however, my ex (ltr, it lasted 2 years) told me that he found me unattractive because of my extra weight. It really depressed me, stole away all of my self confidence. I know you shouldn't let someone do that to you, but at that point, he was the person that was closest to me in my life. I saw him looking at all these skinny models and I thought...I look nothing like that.

It took me a while to realize that he was an a**hole and was NOT worth tormenting myself over...But now I am in a different relationship, and he absolutely loves my body. Not just the pretty parts...all of it. My love handles and my big butt and everything...and I'm not afraid to be naked in front of him because I can tell that he likes how I look. Not only does he tell me so...I can see it in his actions and reactions. I can tell that he is excited by my physical appearance when we make love, and whenever he sees me naked, for example, when I'm just out of the shower, he stops whatever he is doing for a moment to caress me or perhaps to simply enjoy the view

Long story short, if he says he loves how you look, and if you can tell from his actions, then you don't have anything to worry about. If he and other people say that you are beautiful, then you probably are! No one is immune from that occasional "fat" day...when you feel bloated and nothing you put on looks right. But overall, you should take his compliments to heart...I'm sure that he means them. It must be extra hard because he cheated on you...but when you chose to stay in the relationship, this was something that you accepted, and you will have to deal with it.

[Bella_Strega]

I can identify with you 100%. I spent most of my childhood and all of my teen years being obese. I lost 80 pound about 5 years ago. Now I have the extra skin thing. Most of it is on my stomach, but I also have it EVERYWHERE - like my upper arms, breasts, butt, thighs, etc. I HATE IT. The only surgical option for me is a full body lift - 3 MAJOR procedures or MORE that will run me about $20-30K without taking into account lost wages, etc. And that's before I get my boobs done (which I would probably go ahead and do as long as I'm having a complete overhaul done, lol).

 

I have NEVER had a "normal" body. Well, at least not since I was about 8 (the age I started to get big). I've never been able to wear a bikini or expose my midriff. I silently curse people who take their "normal" bodies for granted and I feel DEFORMED. I truly do. I feel like a monster. And you can see from my picture that I am a relatively good looking woman otherwise.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have the time or the money and further, I don't know if it's a healthy thing for me to do. Not to mention questions about whether or not the procedure would withstand having kids in the future.

 

So at present, my decision is to live with it and try to learn to love myself and be comfortable regardless. It's hard. I am engaged to be married next spring and my fiancee has yet to see me completely naked. Ever. I told him about my "issues" early on in the relationship and he hasn't pushed me, although sometimes I wish he would.

 

As much as I hate him for things he did to me as the relationship went on, my ex actually worked through my issues with me in the beginning. He made me let him see my stomach and talked me through it while he kissed me all over the areas I hate. Eventually I was so comfortable with him that I rarely wore clothing in the house at all. I miss that confidence in my relationship, but I can't blame my current fiancee for not knowing how to coach someone like me through something like that. I still have no clue how my ex knew what to do.

 

Anyways, I don't really have any answers for how to deal with it except to try to accept and love yourself as you are and know that your husband's affair had nothing to do with you. If you cannot disconnect the two (the affair and your body) in your mind, you should either try to seek professional assistance or get rid of your husband since he is the source.

[TheFoglifter]

Look, there is ALWAYS going to be someone prettier, thinner, in better shape, younger... That is always going to be the case. What is unique is that person's personality. Just because she has a nicer doesn't mean she is a better person.

 

The thing you can control is whether or not you scare someone who loves you into the arms of one of these people. My gf is about size 20 at this point (12 when we got together). While I am sympathetic to the pressures that society and the media place on women, quite frankly I'm tired of having to suffer for HER unhappiness.

 

No matter how legitimate your fears may seem to you, there comes that point where excuses are excuses. Your husband MARRIED you. He shot his case in the head by cheating, but be honest: did he cheat because you weren't giving him sex? Is there a part of him that had the right to be frustrated because he kept on complimenting you sincerely and you kept on shooting him down?

 

For men, there comes that point where we just turn off. We stop trying because our efforts are wasted. I personally am sick and tired of having to do all the work associated with a romantic relationship, but not getting the benefits. How many compliments have to be spat back? How much rejection do I have to take? Its not just about YOU you know. You may think its fine and dandy to use your body as an excuse to get out of sex, but the man who married you (and probably misses the days when you did have sex) does not feel the same way.

 

If I have to promise to be faithful to a woman for eternity, why should I continue to hold up my end of the deal if she doesn't?

[TheFoglifter]

... I'm not afraid to be naked in front of him because I can tell that he likes how I look. Not only does he tell me so...I can see it in his actions and reactions. I can tell that he is excited by my physical appearance when we make love, and whenever he sees me naked, for example, when I'm just out of the shower, he stops whatever he is doing for a moment to caress me or perhaps to simply enjoy the view"

 

See THERE IS THE PROBLEM. You BELIEVE what your boyfriend is saying. My gf does not! No matter how much I say or act or do or show or whatever that I really find her beautiful, she just doesn't believe it. All she thinks is "how could anyone love this fat disgusting blob, he's just buttering me up for sex".

 

... I was so comfortable with him that I rarely wore clothing in the house at all."

 

Oh how I wish this would work for me.

[Bella_Strega]

Do you really think that she's using it as an excuse? Or is she genuinely tormented by this? Does she try to be intimate with you? Is she trying to work on her issues?

[TheFoglifter]

... she try to be intimate with you? Is she trying to work on her issues?"

 

This is the real corker. There have been rare rare rare times when she is in the mood, and those are super hot. Then there are times when she initiates sex which seem to coincide with generous gestures or extremely large/lavish expenditures on my parts. I don't bother initiating it anymore because I can't take the rejection. She has taught me that asking = no.

 

She is not trying to work on her issues. That is why I am so frustrated. She hates her body, but won't do anything about it. Unfair, unacceptable.

 

... you really think that she's using it as an excuse? Or is she genuinely tormented by this?"

 

The point is, even though she isn't a supermodel, I still find her beautiful and desirable because of WHO SHE IS! If that isn't enough, then what the hell am I supposed to do? I've tried my damndest to make her see how I really feel and she prefers to retreat to her own mental blockades. She doesn't seem to care how much this bothers me, or she is oblivious to it which I doubt since I've made my feelings crystal clear.

 

It is unfair, and unacceptable that I have to suffer because of her hangups.

 

... On so many levels."

 

Case in point: wrong, selfish, and unreasonable to use your body as an excuse to get out of sex.

[Bella_Strega]

P.S. - I ALWAYS want to have sex. Regardless of my "issue". I am just creative with my lingerie, etc. in ways that allow me to show what I want and hide what I want.

 

I'm actually having some trouble with my fiancee's libido lately. If it were up to me, we'd have sex every day, twice a day. (I worry that I might have a problem). I could live on 3 times a week. But once every week or two is just not doing it for me and it's making me quite irritable.

[Bella_Strega]

"There have been rare rare rare times when she is in the mood...there are times when she initiates sex which seem to coincide with generous gestures or extremely large/lavish expenditures on my part"

 

Um...yeah. I'm going to have to agree with you in the "wrong" department on this one. It sounds like she is using sex to get what she wants, as opposed to sex being an extension of your mutual love and respect and your relationship. And that IS plain wrong.

 

Hey, at least she isn't a man. When a woman's rejecting you, at least it's socially acceptable and somewhat expected. When it's a man who has just asked you to marry him 4 months ago...you really start to hate yourself.

[TheFoglifter]

... could live on 3 times a week. But once every week or two is just not doing it for me and it's making me quite irritable."

 

For me its almost been 2 months. This is not uncommon. Weekly for me would be a HUGE improvement.

 

... it's a man who has just asked you to marry him 4 months ago...you really start to hate yourself."

 

The only men that I have known who hated sex were real losers. I've told my gf many times that if she wants to date someone who hates sex, then she has to deal with a person like Ted (friends ex who had no job, beat his girlfriend, stole her money, and wasn't moving out of his stepdad's place).

[Red Fox]

I'd like to hear from the guys who are with girls with less-than-perfect physiques. Do the flaws bother you? Can you honestly think your wives/girlfriends are beautiful and sexy even with a little extra padding here and there? What about other physical flaws? Do they hinder your attraction to her? I TRULY need to know!

 

I am with someone who doesn't like to be seen totally naked and likes to hide certain parts a little bit. She has has lost some weight a bit like you. I think she's amazing and despite what she thinks, her legs look great. I think a large amount of guys would view her as an attractive person. She thinks I see her through rose tinted glasses. But in my opinion she's wrong.

[TheFoglifter]

... thinks I see her through rose tinted glasses. But in my opinion she's wrong."

 

My gf has used the exact same phrase: rose tinted glasses.

[LubBec]

It is highly insulting that you would insinuate that my husband's affair was somehow my fault because I refused sex and that he got to a point where he just couldn't take it anymore. First of all...even if I did withhold sex would that have made his affair justified? Next of all, I DON'T withhold sex. However, I DO feel more inhibited about certain positions and being totally naked in a well lit room. I'm completely willing to participate. I feel it could be much better if I could REALLY believe that he thinks I am as sexy and beautiful as he says I am.

 

The problem is.... if I can't stand to look at myself, why would I think that he would want to? I'm not fat. I'm not ugly. I just don't measure up to what the rest of the world calls beautiful.

 

I think you're being insensitive to your gf's issues. Instead of looking at sex as if it is something she "owes" you, look at it as a priviledge.

[Cimmie]

I think there is a massive disconnect in a lot of women's minds between a falsely objective view of themselves and the subjective view that the man who loves them has. The 'objective' view is contaminated by a constant barrage of media images of the 'perfect' face/figure/nose/lips/ass/breasts...a kind of Platonic ideal that NO woman can live up to. So many of these images are profoundly false-even beautiful young models have their 'flaws' photoshopped and airbrushed out of existence.

 

This false ideal of 'perfection' wedges itself between you and the self you see in the mirror, so that you are ALWAYS unconsciously falling short, no matter what you look like. It's a tactic employed by the beauty industry to make women spend money. Simple as that, and it works a treat.

 

Unfortunately, it also has a terrible effect on a woman's self-perception, making it completely distorted, and this can impact negatively on her sex-life.

 

If a man loves you, he loves you for yourself, including what you perceive as 'flaws'.

 

Women need to cut their men, and themselves, some slack. Self-hatred and body neurosis is NOT sexy. You're only alive once. You're only young once. We are stuck with the skin we're in. We have to try and avoid the beauty 'sell' and appreciate and care for what we have.

 

I'd recommend Germaine Greer's 'The Female Eunuch' or Naomi Woolf's 'The Beauty Myth' to any woman struggling with these issues.

[LubBec]

Thanks for the post, Cimmie. I especially like what you said about "self-hatred and body neurosis not being sexy. So true. I know that confidence is one of the sexiest qualities anybody can have. I will work on being more confident in my less-than-perfect body. It's something I will have to work on, however.

 

Good advice.

[Cimmie]

Thanks for the post, Cimmie. I especially like what you said about "self-hatred and body neurosis not being sexy. So true. I know that confidence is one of the sexiest qualities anybody can have. I will work on being more confident in my less-than-perfect body. It's something I will have to work on, however.

 

Good advice.

 

Something like yoga really helps, LubBec. Have you ever tried it? It puts you 'in touch' with your body in a way that aerobic exercise, e.g. doesn't. It makes you really aware of yourself in a positive way, and is great for helping overcome anxiety-based body issues. It's also really relaxing. I'd recommend you try a class sometime if you've never given it a go. It might really benefit you!

[tiredofvampires]

LubBec, a few things:

 

When I was in my late teens, I became severely anorexic. To the point of near death (I was actually hospitalized, but that was more for the attendant depression, though I was put on a strict diet plan.) None of this worked, as I hated how others were trying to "make me fatter." I could and probably will write a book about my experiences some day, but I was called beautiful, sexy and gorgeous all the time -- it seemed like the more toned I got (I exercised like a fiend) and thin, the more I turned heads. Until I reached a certain low point, and then it seemed suddenly that my "efforts" weren't paying off anymore in the outer recognition category. I began to feel self-conscious about something, even though I wasn't sure what...finally it occurred to me, as I was in a stupor of despair about life, that no matter what I weighed and how taut and tight I looked, it made no difference. My body was not what I hated. It was my trapped existence that I hated. I hated the fact that I could not be perfect in my eyes no matter what I did, even when I seemed to achieve looking perfect! And furthermore, it didn't seem my obsession mattered to anyone else. I didn't come to this overnight, but by a gradual process of observing that I actually felt jealous of women who weighed a little more and seemed confident, happy, and joyously in the arms of a man who clearly adored them. I secretly wished I had what they did: a view of myself that wasn't crippling. I knew that my body was not the enemy, my attitude was. I noticed that when I looked in the mirror and compared my "perfect" body to theirs, and saw the radiance on their faces compared to my lonely, deeply sad expression and fragile smile...I envied them and wished to god that I could be them instead. WITH the extra roll, WITH the ample butt, WITH everything that came with their strong and lusty vitality.

 

It is very rare to come spontaneously out of anorxia, but this is what started me out on my path. I didn't want what I looked like anymore. I came to see that what I wanted was to love who I was through and through, not to have my body sculpted this way or that. That brought no happiness in my core.

 

There are a lot of women who say they have no problem with self-esteem or confidence, or to impress the world, but just wanted to get plastic surgery "for themselves." I know I will get creamed for saying this, but I think EVERY woman who cannot just accept what she has and love it is suffering some form of body dysmorphia and self-rejection. (This is not to say that if you are not living an active and healthy lifestyle, you shouldn't make those changes.) And I don't think there is any way to euphemize self-rejection. The proof of this is that if you consider all the tribal peoples of the world dancing on National Geographic, how many of them do you think think about wanting breast lifts or tummy tucks? Women who think that they just decided their body was not good enough, unrelated to the demands of others and society, but just out of the clear blue, are kidding themselves. I decided instead of buying into that as I had been -- to start to rebel! And ever since then, I've felt that the antidote for every woman feeling rotten about her body should be: REBELLION!!

 

There are a couple of things that just advanced the resolution of my thinking distortion in leaps and bounds: first, I went to college and took a major in fine art (drawing and painting.) If you look at the bodies of most of the greatest artists of all time, you will not see beauty as it is considered now. Go and look at books of paintings over the centuries -- look at Rembrandt, Rubens, Ingres. If you go back to the Greek and Roman classic eras, you will likewise see that the female form looks nothing like today's ideal woman. And if you look back even further, look at what humankind prayed to: stone images with pendulous breasts and big bellies. I know you may feel that I'm going off the deep end, but what I'm trying to do is to show you how UTTERLY NARROW and SHORT-SIGHTED this little corner of civilization is in regards to the legacy of human ideals of what is womanly and beautiful! I wanted to look strong, I wanted to look fertile (and believe me, from an unconscious standpoint, men really do look for features that have a fertile look, and some fat contributes to that), I wanted to be substantial! So when I started to appreciate the female form that exuded the most womanliness, I found myself not being drawn to the figure I had worked so hard to "perfect" (as though that could even happen.) Every day, we had nude models to draw or paint, and routinely, I found that the ones with stong frames with a little feminine softness (imperfections!) were the very best ones. From and aesthetic point of view, this revolutionized the way I felt about my own body. To this day, when I see a body that looks perfect, whether male or female, I view it as a rather sterile specimen without much character. And, while taste is a very personal thing, I find that some generic "hot bod" is actually rather boring, not erotic or sexy.

 

We all have to celebrate our UNIQUENESS, not just become one of so many airbrushed drones! What kind of specialness does that have! Start looking at yourself in the mirror and seeing yourself as not an object of contempt, but one of specialness and its own sensual nature. I know this will be hard to do at first, but start just admiring yourself one glance at a time. Buy seductive outfits that accentuate yourself and have a little narcissistic fun parading around...and, as classes are concerned, a good one would be belly dancing! I know so many women who swear by this as awakening their femininity regardless of body type. And you can see that the authentic belly dancers all have a tummy. Give it a go!

 

And then there was this: because of the harm the anorexia had done my body, the hormonal imbalances and shock to my whole system, I developed a chronic pain condition that to this day has changed my life from one of once athletic and limber to one of daily pain. There is no cure for this condition and while it can wax and wane, it may be with me for as long as I last. So suddenly, I saw a healthy and imperfectly shaped body as AN AMAZING BLESSING, and I would give anything in this world now to have an ampler or saggier body that WORKS WELL for one that looks fairly well but is filled with illness or pain. Many people would kill to have your body that you hate, I don't like to put it that way, but having been on ALL sides of this fence, I can tell you that if I had one day back in a body that didn't hurt and ache when I got into different positions during sex, that giggled a bit more instead of got stiff and cramping after a good round in the sack, that didn't make me cry over the way it feels to be inside it rather than how it looks...I would take that day and savor every last nano second.

 

So this point is about loving your body every single day as a marvelous gift, working well for you, serving you dutifully, and it deserves to be praised and lavished and loved, not belittled! Your partner can do this for you to some extent, but you have to do the rest of the way yourself. You have to think about its strenghts and its gift of health and wellness, and cultivate gratitude, replace the negative thoughts with gratitude every time those brainwashed records starts spinning in your mind.

 

And finally, there is this: you will soon in the scheme of things as time takes its toll have to deal with increasing imperfections anyway. This body is really meant to change, to become imperfect over time, and you will have to let go of the vanity by pieces anyway as old age sets in. I don't mean to sound depresssing, but it's so true, and having faced death and the loss of function as I once knew it, this is a time to contemplate the relative youth and gorgeousness you have! Because some day when you and your husband are old, you will hopefully still be hearing his saying how lovely you are, even if you are hunched over! Beauty is a state of being, and as the vessel of your body changes, you have to hold onto something deeper than what you are holding onto now: your skin. The skin deep. That is truly all it is. Once you throw that out the window, and celebrate your sensuality and individuality and vitality, you will find, as I did, almost a pride in seeing a flaw here and there, and irreverently thinking, "So what? I am SEXY ANYWAY!!"

 

So long as you are living a healthy life, taking care of your body and respecting it, it will serve you well and your husband will be so turned on by "the new you" -- and you should just take those old, deluded ideas and throw them out like unwanted guests.

[TheFoglifter]

... knew that my body was not the enemy, my attitude was."

 

I have always felt this way and I applaud you for asserting it. I have seen plenty of extremely large (technically, hyper-obese) women who were fun as hell to be around because they were happy with themselves. I've seen larger "real women" who were also radiating confidence and fun. Of course we've also all seen "skinny women" who are disgusted with themselves.

 

I wish more people understood that attitude vs image is the real issue. If you are happy with what you have, you will be a happier person. Those who focus only on what they don't have are never happy.

[ResonanceTheory]

Bump x infinity to TiredofVampires' post. She's right.

To each their own and all that...but in the end, it's all about how a woman carries herself...whether it is with confidence, or with shame. You will be living in your skin for the rest of your life, so why waste your time feeling embarrassed about it? Love yourself, and others will love you, inside and out.

[LubBec]

Thank you for that beautiful post tiredofvampires. You have really made me think and I am going to work on changing my thoughts and try to start loving and appreciating what I have.

[tiredofvampires]

Thanks, you guys, for getting with my lonnnng post. And the confirmation!

 

I wish more people understood that attitude vs image is the real issue.

 

Foglifter --

well summed up! I am sorry your gf is so shortsighted and entrenched in this problem, too. I know from when I was in the thick of my delusion, NO ONE could convince me what my body looked like. It was like "I know better than you what my body REALLY looks like." I had the right view of what a body was supposed to look like, and others were "deluded" in their evaluations of me. If a woman is stuck in this mentality, praise cannot touch her, as she sees it as an extension of your love "blinding" you to the facts of how her body is "supposed" to look. This is not to say you should stop telling her how beautiful she is, I know it feels useless, but it is better to keep giving that affirmation than not. I hope you tell her what you have stated here, and at some point she will be open to listen. But it is mostly an inside job.

 

RT --

Your turn-around with your image and self-appreciation are great! Yes, life is TOO SHORT and even if we had the perfect body, it wouldn't really last that long anyway!! Kudos to you for what sounds like a very healthy attitude! (um, btw, not to sound dumb, but I've heard "bump" before, what exactly does bump x mean? thanks for educating me, lol!)

[ResonanceTheory]

Thanks ToV, it's taken me a looooooooooong time to get to where I am

 

And bumps are like props...kinda like an e-high five for a good post and times infinity...well...good post times infinity, lol...kinda silly, but that's the internet for you

[TheFoglifter]

... ONE could convince me what my body looked like. It was like "I know better than you what my body REALLY looks like." ...and at some point she will be open to listen. But it is mostly an inside job."

 

Thank you for the empathy. Indeed, I will not STOP giving her the compliments, because then they would REALLY seem insincere.

 

I just wish there was a way to accelerate the time it takes her to remove the blocks that she herself is putting in place. Since it really is her problem that she CHOOSES to have, it seems only fair she should hurry up and fix it.