Scout

Wow, everyone - I wasn't prepared for the "I am woman, hear me roar!" supportive reaction I got! Thanks - I honestly just reached the end of my rope today, it did feel good to let the emotions out, I have to say. Ziggy, I see what you're saying, and I kind of subscribe to that theory about give without thinking what you're going to get in return, but usually more in the context of Christmas presents.

I'd love to hear everyone's update on their current situations. This site has just been such a God-send.

Gee Cee - what a glorious day it sounds like you had! Sounds like you also have a natural abundance of energy and zest for life that will see you through even the most difficult romantic entanglements and other annoying circumstances that life presents us with sometimes.

Well - I don't know if I screwed up or did the right thing, but this morning (yes, this morning, the ex stayed over, why oh why did I let that happen) - I had it out with the ex.

I thought I could be friends with him, I really did. I even thought - albeit, after too much alcohol - that I could sleep with him and than remain just friends. Well, we had sex last night, and my little theory got put to the test. I asked him in the morning, what does this mean now? Where do we go from here? And he said he didn't want a relationship, that he wanted to keep it as it was - friends.

Apparently, I cannot, because I was laying in my bed this morning, really starting to absorb what he just said, and I found myself getting furious. This guy had basically gotten out of all the responsibilities and work that goes with a relationship, yet was still more than happy to take the sex. Since this was a similar revelation to the one that originally led me to break up with him, I snapped. And told him everything I really thought about him: that he's selfish and only concerned about what feels good for him right at the given moment, that a real man would step up to the plate and make things work, that his best friend had the personality of a roof shingle and yet he preferred to take him snowboarding rather than me ( I know, I know...bad call), and on and on....well, the gist is that he got mad, said he hated the drama, hated my "scenes", that I ruined everything - and I just looked steadily back at him and said, oh no. You're not going to pull the famous guy trick and make me out to be the girl who's the emotional basket case, thus you are justified in breaking it off with me. I said, I see right through what you did and what you're doing, and it was all typical passive-manipulative sh$# to get me to break up with you so you wouldn't have to face that responsibility either.

Naturally, at that point, he just as calmly asked me that devastating question that all of us dumpees don't want to hear, and never have a proper answer to: "Well, if I'm all that you say, than why do you want me?" I had no answer, but it's a damn good question, isn't it??

Sorry, Gee Cee, I probably should have put this on my thread, but everyone's reading your's anyway!

Well, I had previously decided to crash this party because it looked like so much fun! And I could also relate to what several of the posters here were going through. I was given a warm welcome, too. Thanks guys!

I haven't updated you on my situation lately.

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Whoa - just got a call from the ex right after I wrote the above paragraph! WEIRD. I'm tending to agree with you Gee Cee - for some of these guys, total no contact might not be necessary. What happened was, this morning I was determined to make exciting, fun plans for myself tonight - so, meeting some friends at an acoustic coffee-shop place this evening, than afterwards going to see "Air" in concert - anyway, I was so happy and chirping around that I had a fun evening ahead, on a whim I called the ex to see if he wanted to meet me at the dog park. Got his voicemail, and left a brief, friendly message saying sorry I missed him, hope he was having a great weekend, see ya later...and he just called back! And he's coming over for brunch and the dog park!

Maybe...we can be friends? Maybe...self-control, no questions about the relationship, no showing interest in a reconciliation, and starting to accept the idea of a friends-only relationship...is paying off?

Wow. At 35, I'm finally learning some self-control and insight. This has gotta be too good to be true...don't let me screw up, God! And DON'T let me drink around him.

Back off then. He might have freaked out at the "L" word...but don't you freak out about the fact that he might be freaking out.

If you don't call him or email him, and instead wait for him to make contact, than it's likely he will relax enough to go back to his usual consistent communication with you. If he doesn't, and continues to act funny, than I'd give it two weeks, and maybe ask him if the sudden ceasing of communication has to do with what you said. Hopefully, he'll open up and you can have an honest dialogue about it, but don't put any pressure on him or get defensive. Just casually bring the subject up, but you have to wait at least a week or two before you do.

Anyone else have thoughts on this advice?

I don't know...I think your intuition could be right on about this girl, but I agree you should put it out of your head and focus on your own non-contact. This time of NC is for YOU to step back from an emotionally charged situation, do some objective & clear thinking on the relationship AND to do things for yourself, even if you just want to sit at home and mope (don't do it! you'll drive yourself nuts, and miss out on a great opportunity to re-focus on yourself and your needs).

I have to say that I think this guy probably is a cheater. "Call before you come over..." Come on! The guy is practically admitting he has something to hide. Regarding his "anger" that you talk to guys on the Internet, in my past experience, the guys that were the most jealous and accusatory were the very ones cheating on me.

I would walk away from this relationship if I were you, no matter how hard. He's evasive, and obviously not going to step up to the plate and make a full commitment, yet he didn't have the courage to just say so. Instead, he forced your hand by becoming increasingly unavailable. That's wimpy, and you don't need that. A normal and healthy relationship is a partnership between TWO people, with BOTH doing the work to nurture the trust in the relationship. And you will find someone like this, but not while you're entangled with this guy. Let it go, and find someone that truly will deserve and love you. Remember the good things, but also don't forget why he ultimately wasn't the right person for you and steer clear of anyone in the future who shows any red flags that they have those same traits.

Have you thought about talking to a teacher or counselor at school about this? It is very serious that your father threatens you with not being able to go to school. And I think it's illegal. You have a valid reason to go to someone about this problem. I know you may be afraid of unleashing even more of their anger if you did this, but if you are truly afraid in your homelife, and if they really do hit you on a regular basis, I think the proper authorities would protect you. No, we can't choose the families we are born into. But we CAN choose the person we become, the life path we take, and the kind of parent we ourselves become in the future. Life is hard, very hard for you right now, but remember: what doesn't kill you, will make you stronger and a SURVIVOR. Hang in there, please!!! Don't give up - ever.

Oh, and sugarplum, feel free to take over the thread! Your situation certainly sounds frustrating, and you probably need to vent or it will drive you nuts. I hate it when they can't pinpoint the reason - almost as much as I hate it when they do. No but seriously, it's yet another time when they don't make an effort at something - can't they at least make the effort when it's THE LAST THING WE WILL EVER ASK THEM TO DO. JUST TELL US WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD PLEASE SO WE DON'T DRIVE OURSELVES CRAZY TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT. oops, now I'm back to venting...

I'm tired of it, too. One thing I'm working on, is to always immediately walk away the minute I meet someone who makes comments in the beginning about not being relationship material. They are spelling it out for you, and you just have to take that as a favor, if possible, and don't pursue a relationship with them, no matter how wonderful their other qualities are.

Because bottom line is, there is nothing wrong with us wanting committed relationships! It doesn't mean we're needy! We only get needy when we're not getting what we need, right? And we don't get what we need with people who display pretty early on anti-relationship tendencies. What kind of sucks about my situation is that he didn't display anything like that in the beginning. I think he really wanted a relationship. But, his other desires and preferences for an independent, still hang & party with the buddies all the time, lifestyle seemed to won over. I am still having a problem understanding why I couldn't be included in those ventures either, I would hope he wasn't cheating on me. I don't think he was, but you never know. Again, these are little questions that still pop into my head, but ultimately not important enough to get closure on. We certaintly can't depend on the ex to answer those questions for us, but luckily, the forum here helps!

If someone was barking, indeed yelling, in my face like the drill sargeant from "Full Metal Jacket" I would be very frightened. That is scary. For a man to do that to a woman and know that it's scaring her is cowardly, in my book. As for a well-disciplined child, I agree, we could do with more of them. However, I don't know if I think corporal punishment is the sure-fire way to accomplish that, especially a child that has been diagnosed with a medical condition. I've always thought "time-outs" were effective at calming the child, distancing yourself from their tantrums, and letting them see that when they are behaving unacceptably, their presense is not wanted until they shape up and can come out of their room with a better attitude.

You know, I actually just wrote him a rather long email that mainly said how good last night was, yet I was still in the dark on many issues, and than - I deleted it before I sent it! After reading your post, I am SO GLAD I DID THAT. You're right - everything you say. Because the bottom line is that even though last night was nice, it still didn't end with him professing his new-found appreciation of what we had. And I can't make him see that, that is something he is either going to develop or not. Waiting, and waiting and more waiting, in the mean-time...no. I can't do that. Life is too short to do that.

It hurts - I so want to meet that one guy that's going to partner up with me in this adventure we call life. I'm really ready to have another person at my side to do that. But will he get here any faster if I'm pining over someone else? Logically, I know the answer is no. So, I'll have to just give up and let go. I know the next several weeks will be hard as I try to formulate the resolve to do this, but that's what this board is for, and you keep me posted too, on any struggles you might have day-to-day or whatnot with your similar situation.

Thanks so much for being there and your support![/i]

Above all, do what you feel you must for the sake of your child's well-being, and your own. Many people have an aversion to therapy, for whatever reasons. Most people think that therapists are just paid to listen, and that's it. Wrong - a quality therapist will help you pinpoint your desires and goals at the beginning of your therapy journey, and will provide a strong source of listening AND feedback through-out. A good therapist will help you & your family develop the tools you need to lead a healthy, productive life.

Your husband does sound extremely controlling, and unacceptably so, but at this point at least, it seems like there may be some hope for him changing. At least the door is "ajar", not "closed". Hang in there, and stick to your guns. Keep us posted.

I love that analogy - we're in a secret underground "Mission Control" room! Target: THE EX. If you think about it, we are all on computers. Oh, if our respective exes only knew about our covert missions... 0X

I don't like that his behavior frightens you or your son. The first thing that needs to be established is that he cannot behave in a way that frightens the wits out of you and your son. That is unacceptable. Period. That being said, it is encouraging that in the past he took a workshop to learn how to handle anger and to communicate on a more productive and healthy level. It means he's open to counseling. I think you two could benefit from marriage counseling, because at this point, you are both still dedicated to making this marriage work. Maybe even family counseling - after all, you've all had to make adjustments as a family.

I feel this is the needed next step. Good luck, and remember, this forum is here for you, too.

Well...it was an interesting evening, in that it didn't turn out like I expected at all. I was thinking it had the potential to be a very awkward meeting, but the best term I can think of to describe the mood that eventually unfolded itself was comfortable, and at times even tender, companionship. We went hiking up in the mountains at one of my favorite places, and we stayed until twilight, sitting on some boulders looking out over the evergreen trees, and it just felt really good. One thing I know for sure now is that I always have, and always will, feel some kind of connection with him as someone that was really easy for me to be around.

We went out afterwards to get a bite to eat, and I limited myself to one beer (that was a smart thing to do as the night later turned out to be)...than I surprised myself by asking if he wanted to watch a movie at my house. He surprised me by agreeing. And than we watched the movie, and snuggled together on my couch. He stayed over, but I made it clear I didn't want to have sex, and he was fine with that. All we did was kiss.

This morning, I was so glad we didn't have sex. I just feel like we're both unsure of where we stand with each other, and that only would have made it more awkward. I know that he cares about me - but I think he's just uncomfortable in the boyfriend role. For whatever reasons. As close and comfortable I felt with him yesterday, it also occurred to me that I really don't know him that well. I realized he keeps a lot to himself.

So - what do I feel about all this? I have no idea. I really don't. Am I ready to enter a friendship with him with no thought of getting back together in my mind, even in the back of my mind? No. I'm not. But do I have the desire to start a subtle campaign of getting him back? I don't think so. I honestly don't want to be the one putting all the effort in rebuilding a romantic relationship with us, and I don't get the feeling he wants that. I know he has caring feelings towards me, but he is just obviously more comfortable out of an exclusive relationship with me. At least that's the vibe I'm getting.

The last thing he said as he was walking out the door was "Keep in touch." Kind of impersonal, but probably the most appropriate thing to say under the circumstances.

Thanks to all of you...I will keep you posted on what happens...

Gee Cee - would you do me a tiny favor and read my post about my current saga? I am supposed to meet up with the ex tonight, and not sure how to approach things. I would be very curious to hear in particular your take on this situation.

I hate patience too. And I wouldn't even have suggested it to you - but it does seem there is some genuine, real liking you two have for each other that indicates maybe a friendship is worth the effort. Maybe. Warning: don't be too shocked if after some time into your friendship, you discover that's all you really want from him!

Well, I thought your poem was very poignant and unique - quite a contrast to the illiterate ramblings of the guy she's interested in. If I were you, I would be appalled that she could even be interested in someone who writes like he does. And I would seriously question her worthiness of you, as a result.

I understand how you must be feeling. The lying is probably reminding you of how he lied when he cheated. And the fact that he's lying about something to do with other women (in this case, porn) is emphasizing those feelings. You definitely need to bring both of those points to his attention when you talk about this with him. I personally feel that is someone ever cheats - especially if they're married - owes it to their spouse for the rest of their married lives to prove that they are trustworthy again. And there is no way you are going to trust him if he won't even talk to you about this without getting angry and defensive. You're the one who has the right to be upset about this. Now if he had never cheated on you, I would still be upset about the porn thing. I know that many men look at it, but I don't think its right when you're in a committed relationship to look at it very often, if at all. I mean, do women sit around looking at porn on a regular basis? Hardly ever!

I think the fact that he's looking at it so much, and becoming angry with you about it when you question him on it is a warning sign that something is not right in how he's treating your marriage right now, and the sooner you both (and I stress both, because he has a responsibility to play fair and shoot straight with you) address it, the better.

I think you should take the call, too, but have you decided what your problem is yet that you need help with? I've been thinking about your whole situation with this guy, and much as I dread putting general and often wrong labels on people, I do think he fits into the typical "commitmentphobe" category. A friend of mine dated someone similar to that, and it was a rollercoaster that nearly drove her to kill herself with grief. He told her she was perfect, she made him feel "alive", he could see a future with her...and than he dumped her. Than he would come back to her. Than he would dump her again. Now, in your case, this guy doesn't sound quite so unbalanced, but he's definitely holding back for whatever reasons for a committed relationship with you. I think there is hope, but I'm not sure if you're patient enough to stay the course (I don't think I could be either, if that helps!). He obviously likes who you are as a person very much. He does respond quickly to your calls, and so you can be sure that he does care about you and likes your company. And I know you really like him as a person too, not just as this unattainable challenge that someone not as healthy as you might view him. So - could you maybe start a friendship with him? And keep him in your life that way, let him see you grow, laugh and talk with him, turn yourself into his confidante, and keep it happy and close - but not physical. Yep, no "delicious sex"! If there is a chance, maybe over time he will truly relax enough to see a future again with you, but you can't ever hint that is your purpose. Ever, ever.

I could be wrong here, but that's my take on the situation if you really think he's worth it.

I think a good counselor does more than just listen. They are trained professionals, just like financial advisors or career counselors - only their particular job is to help you untwist your thoughts and get focused on what's really important in your life & to help you learn the tools you need to find real happiness and strength. I strongly recommend therapy to anyone who is starting to even think about it. And if you don't "click" with the first one, go to another one! This is an important undertaking and you have to have the right chemistry with your chosen therapist. Ask what they specialize in, ask what their credentials are. A respectable therapist will be more than happy you asked, and happy to provide you with that information.

This forum is also extremely helpful, but at this point, you may need some additional counseling. And you don't have to wait for a reply back to your post!

I don't blame you for being confused - I mean, the guy wrote you a very tender email about your break-up, and I would have taken that to mean he might want to get back together, too. Than he acts different when you see him. I just think sending mixed messages is a passive form of dishonesty, and I try to avoid people that send them. It hurts at first, but in the long run, you're better off being around people who you know absolutely where you stand.

My ex and I just got off the phone - somehow, the plans went from meeting at a dog park, to going hiking up in the mountains this evening (his idea). This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted us to do when we were seeing each other. I'm not sure why now he's up for this...I actually felt pretty calm while talking to him, asked him what he did this weekend, and of course, it was the usual non-stop revelry with his friends. I did get irritated, but tried not to show it too much. I did let fly a comment or two about his indulging himself too much...it irked him, and slightly put him on the defensive, so I changed the subject. It sort of reinforced my growing conviction that he is a boy, not a man, and it's not my problem to make him grow up. I think I can handle this evening. I think he does miss my company, so I will try to keep it light and not get irritated when I hear how much fun he is having with his friends. Maybe we can have a friendship...maybe not...but if he asks, I'm certainly going to say what you mentioned in your post...that the first time he breaks plans, I'm walking. Or something to that effect. I think the No Contact over the last month definitely let him see that I don't put up with crap like that, and maybe that renewed his interest in a friendship with me. No relationship of any kind can really survive without mutual respect.

I think I'll just shut up and let him do most of the talking tonight. That's usually the wisest course, isn't it?

He's not playing straight with you. I've met these types before - their calling card is ALWAYS coming on very strong, very fast. I know this sounds easy to say, hard to do, but I strongly advise you just cut this guy loose. There are too many other really good guys out there to waste anymore of your time on this dud.

Hi Lisaria...I have read many of your posts, and have been impressed with the fact that even though you're dealing with a painful break-up yourself, you reach out to others with really well thought-out, and good, advice. I can completely relate to how you felt on your down day. Yes, you did have something really good with this person, at one time. And it's incredibly sad, I know, that time is over. It makes you feel abandoned. The worst part is, it makes you feel like you have so little control over your own happiness.

I can relate, I can relate!

The truth is, as long as we pick people that are not strong and steady in character and have a clear idea of what they want, we won't be in control of our destiny. On the other hand, we need to learn how to handle it when we do meet the right type, because we're not used to that, either, and could do something to sabatoge it! So - how do we learn what we need to learn? I personally have learned quite a bit from this forum, and I also am an advocate of therapy. You can learn so much about yourself, and most importantly, learn to accept, maybe even love the parts of yourself that before you deemed unlikeable. It is a liberating experience, indeed.

Therapy can go a long way toward the healing process. If you don't have insurance that will cover it, there are many programs that offer significantly reduced fees for those that qualify. Call a local university's counseling department, and they can give you more info on that, or at least point you in the right direction.

Everything is going to be ok. You'll see.

Thanks, well said. It sounds like we are both in the same boat. You're right, I know that I'm not really ready to see him, but I want to see how he acts. He sent me an email a few moments ago asking if we were still on for seeing each other this evening. And I said...yes. Oh Lord, please give me the strength not to freak out as soon as he gets breezy and casual like we never had anything special...