should i forgive betrayal or stand the pain??

[sheela]

This is a letter my ex wrote to my sister, it will give you a little insight on the realtionship....So this is his side of the story..and my side is after his side...because there is always 2 sides to the story....do you think it is worth it to try to get him back??? does he even care?? my heart wants him back!!!! Am I stupid??? Please take time to read and help!!!!! Sorry so long, my heart wants him back!!!

 

 

 

Rona keeps bringing up 4 strippers and me taking her to a whorehouse in Asia. As I mentioned to you briefly in your apt before Rona showed up, I was with 4 strippers between Sept 05 and Dec 05 after Rona had left Asia. At that point, Rona and I were not married (Aug/Sept 05) and our relationship was still platonic. Rona had been to Asia and we had a legal marriage lined up (through the american embassy) with a Asian attorney for the next day or two whom was going to walk us through the whole process for $300.00. Rona backed out.

 

I had previously told Rona that I loved her and that we should get married a few months earlier in S. America. We tried to get married in Lima, but we could not because we needed birth certificates in addition to our passports. Of course this was my fault. I told her I was in love with her in California. I fell in love with her way before I ever moved away from California as a matter of fact. Actually, the only thing keeping me in California at that time was her.

 

Prior to Sept 05, in DC Rona had told me she had been with several different men, i.e., 12, 23, etc. She said she was joking at the time. I do not recall her telling me that it was a joke at the time. My reasoning for my behavior between Sept 05 and Dec 05 was because of what she told me, we had never slept together, we were not married, and kind of a bachelor party thing. I believe my reasoning is weak and pathetic. I atoned for my behavior by juice fasting for 2 wks and getting on a plane to California from Asia. A week later getting back on a plane from the States to Asia and Juice fasting for 3 weeks. As I have mentioned to Rona more than once, I cannot change the past. asked for her forgiveness

 

I did not take Rona to a whorehouse! I took her to a hotel in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. This is where I took her: There are infamous places in Phnom Penh such as The Heart of Darkness, The Martini bar, The walkabout, S21, The Killing Fields etc. I wanted to check the place out like have a beer, get something to eat if even that. When we finally went there with Andy, we were arguing as usual and thereforeeee tensions were high.

 

When Andy made a rude comment, I didn't care. 2-3 women came running over to greet him. Andy said something like: "Look, he doesn't even care about you." This was said as Rona was starting to yell and I was walking away from her toward a wall to look at the postings because I was tired of her Mod edit>. We were in the place for a total of about 2-4 mins. Outside of the place is where Rona busted open my eyebrow with her wedding ring and kept yelling: "He cheated on me" over and over again. I would show you the pictures, but Rona deleted them along with many other pics that Rona deemed inappropriate. I didn't want to go to the place by myself or with my (our) friend Andy, I wanted to check it out with my best friend, lover, soulmate, confidant.

 

If I wanted to take Rona to a whorehouse, I would have taken her to the state of Nevada or to any city in the country of Germany and more than likely most countries in the world.

 

This is the last time I will ever address this embarrassingly, petty issue.............This is really getting old!!!!!!

 

and this is MY SIDE:

 

 

I am not sure whose fault the ending of this relationship is? I have known my ex for 5 years ..the first 4 years we were only friends..I wanted it that way..I was to busy in college and couldnt handle any realtionships at the time pluse he was getting over a divorce that took place 4 years ago...he pursued me always in those 4 years...but i always wanted to remain friends..it is this year that we had a coming together..and he said i finally came around, and i did wholeheartedly...i loved this man..i live here in the sates and he was living overseas at this time..well he asked me to marry him..i accepted and we finally got engaged..as he were continuing this long distance engagement, Iwas becoming suspicious of his communication to me...so I decided to e-mail his sister in law, a woman that cant stand him, an e-mail explaning to her that I have suspicions about my fiancee and cant trust him and need to send some of his papers to her...he got pissed that i sent this e-mail, i badgered him if he was seeing or talking to anyone at this time...he sadi to me yes he was with 4 strippers..i hung up on him and didnt want anything to do with him...he flys to see me the next day ...he is at the lobby of my apartment begging for forgiveness and asks to see counselors...i accepted..then spent the next 5 months with him...but i never forgave him...i pushed him far away..his excuse was he wasnt sure if i ever was going to really move overseas with him , and didnt know for sure, even though we made plans and got engaged..so why am i hurting for a person like this???? he tried to make things right and has bought me tickets all around the world and has tried to tell me he will let me live a great lifestyle to just forgive him...he also has a friend (woman) that is married , they e-mail each other once in awhile..but her e-mails are always long and elaborate...she is married mind you..i asked him to stop,,but he refused saying i wanted to control who he spoke with..i dont know what to do!!!!!! i am not sure whose fault this is, is it my fault because i ignored the fact that he wanted to be close with me years ago?? should i forgive him?? and why doesnt he want to give up this girl??

 

Here is the thing, I did try to forgive him and lived with him for 5 months, but it was so hard and came back to the states. HE comes to the sates again tot try to win me back during the holidays and made things worse...he turns everything around and tell everyone that I am an emotional ruins...so he looks innocent...I really dont know what to do ...I should of never tried to live with him and now the pain hurts so much....what to do?

 

And the worst part is i call his ex girl friends and hang up on them!!! I ownder if they know who it is...I have been reduced to a child

 

Now he came to starighten things out with me even when i was mean, yelling, throwing thins just went ballistic...but he still tried so hard to make things right and i didnt let him i was too hurt...hes gone now and i have not heard from him in 2 months...its over but i am still hurting i shouldnt be but i am ...

[friscodj]

Welcome to ENA sheela! Great to have you here...

 

Well, between the 4 strippers in Asia, juice fasting for atonement, busting his eye open, traveling the world, calling and hanging up on his exes, chasing you to the U.S. to win you back and you throwing things...wow...this thing has the makings for the "Best Screenplay Award" at the Academy Awards...

 

Look, this thing very clearly to me seems to be a very unhealthy and straight-up messed up situation that has been going on for too long. It's going to be tough but I say cut this thing clean, make some necessary distance to reset the switches here and regain a perspective on the definition of a healthy relationship, because what you wrote here is just the opposite from both sides.

 

This situation is giving you the gift of an opportunity to walk (or run?) away from this disaster. Take some time, try to look through your emotions and realize there are much better relationships out there. With this much depth and longevity of history here, I don't see a change coming. Perhaps a temporary change while you guys ride the high of reconciliation, but I guarantee things will revert right back to similar situations in the future unless you get away, really away, regain definition and perspective of what a healthy relationship is about, and perhaps get some anger management therapy for yourself I think.

[peterrabbit]

The real issue is whether you can forgive him for the 4 strippers. And you have to admit, he was honest with you in telling you that he was with the 4 strippers between September 05 to December 05. He could very easily not have said anything at all.

 

You are right. Your behaviour in calling his ex girlfriends, reading his emails from his friend who is a girl, calling his sister-in-law whom you know doesn't get along with him because you don't trust him... you have been reduced to a child. But he didn't do that to you. You choose how you behave. And personally, I think you're being a tad bit controlling.

 

You've read his emails to his girl friend, and assuming there are no improper remarks (since all you seem to be able to say is that they are long and elaborate), why cannot they continue to correspond with each other? Why should he give her up? She is a friend. This is your insecurity speaking. And it is in human nature to be contrary. The more you want him to give her up, the more he resists actually doing so.

 

As for bringing you to a whorehouse, I have been to Cambodia and Thailand on several occasions with my boyfriend. The local girls at bars in these places are mostly all for sale. Even the waitresses. A guy could walk down the street in places in Thailand such as Pattaya etc. and just proposition any girl. For less than USD50 she will go back to your hotel with you. They are in desperate need of money. That's just the way it is. There's nothing you can do about it. But it's not as if your fiance is going without you. He brought you along. And he didn't go to the 'whorehouse' to get laid. He just went out of curiosity because it's one of the (in)famous places he read about. And it's a compliment to you that he said he wanted to share his experience with his soulmate, confidant, best friend etc. But really, it sounds like it is a regular hotel bar to me. Just that the girls are very forward in some of the less developed countries in Asia. But they're doing it for the money, and most people know that.

 

I don't think that you are unreasonable for feeling insecure. Most women would be. But if you don't feel that you can forgive him, or trust him in the future, then you really don't have a future together. Just stop penalizing him, and making yourself miserable in the process. And oh, beating up anyone, even if you are a girl, is REALLY out of order.

 

It may be that you feel insecure because the things he does and the way he is just fuels your insecurities. In that case, maybe you could talk about it and he could address those behaviours. Or it could be just plain incompatibility - what he feels is okay you deem is utterly inappropriate - and you'll have to come to some compromise on that.

 

You cannot keep beating him over the head with the 4 strippers and whorehouse story. Anyway, doing so doesn't seem to make you very happy either. A constructive thing to do would be to consider what he could do to make you trust him/redeem himself whatever. If he doesn't want to do it, I suppose you're done. If he is willing to do so, perhaps you should give your relationship another chance and try to make things work (if it isn't too late). After all, you love him and he was honest with you, so why not?

 

Search your heart. It's not as though you haven't known him long enough, since you were friends for 4 years. Think of the person he is, given your knowledge of him, and consider whether you think he's someone you can trust/worth your while to try to trust.

[ghost69]

honesty doesn't cut it here for me. if my gf told me about some chicks, wait, i'd be cool with that. i mean, if my gf told me about some dudes and what all they did, pffft, GONE. this sounds like some jerry springer show. hit the road and take your morals with you. get out now.

 

[sheela]

Thanks Peterrabbit , your right I did try to forgive him and lived with him for 5 months, he actually lives in pattaya...but things for me at least were not right so I left to the U.S. and he followed to get me back, things went array and now he is going back home to pattaya where he lives. i love him for telling me yes, after i badgered it out of him...but this is the question..he came here to win me back and my family did not allow him in thanksgiving...so he was torn...since then he cut contact with me..2 months...my question is should I a female go alone to pattaya and win him back??? I am sooo confused!! because i will if it will prove to him that i also made mistakes and will truly forgive him this time.

[sheela]

Thank guys for the advice, as sad as it may seem yeah this relationship is a mess, drama, oscar waiting to be made fantasy crazy movie, thats life...and the crazy part is i thought we were real cool just being friends...i just have to cut my losses and get some theraphy and yes try and develop back my morals to be the woman i used to be before all this mess!!!

 

thanks for the advice!

[friscodj]

Just out of curiosity sheela, what motivated such a change of viewpoint of the situation between your last 2 posts 7 hours apart?

[Scout]

sheela, I feel any further effort on your part would be compromising your heart's belief that some of the things he has done are very much in conflict with your own morals.

 

It seems for a time you were steadfast, now that he has cut off contact, you're second-guessing yourself. That's a NORMAL feeling to have, but what would be, in my opinion, a terrible mistake, would be to act on these feelings.

 

I think you should believe in yourself a little bit more. Believe in your instincts, in that part of you that cried out to yourself before, that things in this relationship were just not right.

 

You would be surprised how, once you reconcile your beliefs with your actions, how much easier it is to move on from this guy.

 

That's the problem right now, I think you are having a hard time trusting your first inclinations. You're letting doubts creep in, and some of that might be because you are lonely right now, so you're trying to justify his actions in an effort to rekindle something so you won't be lonely.

 

But hon, love WILL knock on your door again, and if you're discriminating, it will be someone who does not raise such doubts in your mind.

 

As romantic as your idea probably sounds to you, true, healthy love is not supposed to be this anguished.

 

I wish you luck and belief in yourself. You were on the right track before, hon.

[ghost69]

also, the fact that he told you everything, yeah it's honest, but he told you to see your reaction. probably trying to see if you were cool with him being out doing whatever. he doesn't seem to care about you much anyways. you need someone who does. a lot of people are mean to the people that love them the most. it sucks, but it happens. moving on would be best for you. don't play yourself.

 

[peterrabbit]

Well, I don't think you should go to Pattaya and win him back. To be honest, I think trying to have a long distance relationship with any man who lives in Pattaya would be terribly difficult. It's really tough on the relationship. No matter how much you trust him, the fact is that there is a lot of temptation in places such as Pattaya and it's really cheap to give in as well... I've read a lot of books about Thailand, because I go there about once a month and somehow I was really interested in the culture and the morals that would allow them to 'do what they do' and which would allow their families to live happily off their sons/daughters selling themselves in the sex trade. Thailand is a fascinating place. Corruption seems to work really well for their society at the lower levels, it's like a form of wealth distribution! Anyway I digress. But I can understand how living there, you're quite confused about what you're comfortable with morally etc. I visit Thailand quite often with my boyfriend and inasmuch as I like the place and how happy everyone there seems to be, I can understand how you would have a certain set of morals which you're quite happy with, living in the US, and then come out to Pattaya and have your world turned upside down - things that you would decry in the U.S., seem like they are accepted as normal - and then you start thinking that you're the crazy one, since everyone seems to think that the things you think are 'bad' are normal. Also, and this is a general remark (sorry if any offense is caused), but white guys living in Thailand - especially if they have been there too long - are not the best persons to date, for a variety of reasons - and one of those being the fact that their morals are warped by the permissive society they live in (or think they live in)- Real Thai society is very conservative, but it's very exclusive and very few foreigners get to see that. Instead, they are exposed to the poorest Thais, who mostly view sex/relationships with foreigners as the best way to improve their living standards, and will do and say anything to achieve their objective.

 

Why is he living in Pattaya? Anyway, I wouldn't go there to get him back. For you to have any semblance of a normal relationship or to even have a shot at making your relationship work, he needs to move out of the sex capital of Thailand first. That would try the patience of ANYONE. Let him come and get you, if you're so important to him.

 

I think it would be too tough to carry on a relationship with someone living in Pattaya, particularly if he has carried on with strippers before. Yes, I stand by my statement that he has been honest with you and you should give him some credit for that, and I think he does care for you, but to me - the fact that he lives in Pattaya and has shown no moral objection to 'carrying on' with strippers - AND lives in a place chock-a-block full of them and all of whom would throw themselves at him if he were to pay their barfine... it would take a better woman than me to put up with that. Plus, there is the fear of disease (they are not required to have medical checkups, and anyway they can buy a certificate of clean health for US$5).

 

What I would do right now... is go get a medical checkup. It's not just AIDS which one worries about, but hepatitis is really prevalent there.

 

And don't worry... now you're back home, you should feel more comfortable and you'll regain your view of black, white and grey very soon . Most important is that you should be able to live with yourself. I think you can let go of this one... it would take too much of a stretch for you to make this work, given the great disparity in what you're comfortable with, and it's really not your fault.

[sheela]

Yes I really do not know what I was thinking. I thought that I knew this person until I saw him and his lifestyle. I am beggining to think the break up is a blessing in disguise. I am slowly coming out of this, and I know that it takes time. Friscodj, yea I know change of emotions, and thats what I am going thru...its up and down...but I am beggining to see the light and the picture...I am going to start to get up on my feet slowly again starting right now! Thank you so much for the much needed advice it really helped!!

[sheela]

One question...I know this is a tough one...but yes pr your right pattaya is farfetched..i got my teaching certicficate for ESL in Thailand...and I got offered a jobs there...one far from pattaya ...it would be near phuket near the islands...it is really tempting to take..this job position, it starts in April...i do like the thai culture...not neccessarily what goes on in pattaya, patong or seedy places...this town is a true thai town..but its the culture,....so the question is ..do i take this job position(doesn't pay much) but very rewarding...or for healing purposes, should I stick it out in the states and get my life back together here...mind you if i do take this position i will not try to get my ex back..i would be so busy to think of that and i know it is not in my best interest to even think of that...so do i take the job and move there (alone) or shoud i find my way here???

[ghost69]

yeah, but once you are down there, you might get those feelings wondering about him. then u'd be a lot closer than here. you can have a rewarding teaching job here. there are a lot of people that need help in our country.

[sheela]

Hi I know but I am seriously thinking about taking a job position over there!!! I really like the culture, people and food. I will not try to get back with my ex...only do what I like to do..I have taught in Thailand before, and I LOVE IT, besides what has previously happened to me...should I go for it??