Need advice on managing people

[Celadon]

For me, the hardest thing about being a manager is knowing when to be flexible and when to put my foot down. I'm starting to take on more responsibility, so I have more people reporting to me now.

 

My being unsure of when someone's request is reasonable and when they're basically just taking advantage of me is starting to drive me nuts. I'm willing to be flexible and all.

 

But for example, one employee is in a long-distance relationship, and she drives to see her boyfriend one night during the week. This makes her late for work the next day, but she makes up the hours another day. (She's not the greatest employee either. She just does an okay job.)

 

I don't like it, but I also am trying to be human. I'm a very structured person, so if I were to have everything the way I want it, she and everyone would come in at exactly the same time every day.

 

I've got other examples, one in particular, about someone who tries to do things his way, which I find frustrating.

 

I don't know where to draw the line between insisting people do things my way and letting them do things their way -- without allowing them to take advantage of me or the situation.

 

Anyone got advice? Thanks!

[Lady Bugg]

I understand your dilemma completely. It is NOT easy being in a management position. Being a manager is a delicate balance of nice vs....not so nice. One thing I was always afraid of when I opened my salon was people

quitting on me if I didn;t give them what they wanted. Well..I soon realized that fear was keeping me from making realistic and appropriate decisions.

I believe..you treat people the way YOU would wish to be treated..and this does apply in management relationships.

 

As for the employee issues....you need to consider a few things. How valuable is this employee to your company? You said she isn;t really THAT great of an employee.....many managers WILL overlook certain discrepencies with an employee as long as they are productive and add value with the organization. If this is someone who is biding their time, troublesome and just a "paycheck to paycheck" employee..you may want to put them on a probationary period or even cut your losses. Good luck!!!!

[AwdreeHpburn]

Hey K8tie -

 

The only advice I can think of to give is much harder to practice than it is to preach - looks better on paper kind of thing....

 

I am personally of the opinion that one should be allowed to self manage.

 

I think managers are there to make sure the job gets done in the most effective and efficent way - in the interest of the company...

 

Obvioulsy managers have to be the bridge between the corporate types and the employee, but the manager should always take the stance of..."what's best for the company" They are *usually* hired to be the companies look out at that particular level.

 

If there is a job that has to be done and the how isn't as important as the end result, don't worry so much about if someone comes in late, especially if they make up the time and their work is completed when it's supposed to be.

 

If something is turned in complete and correct, don't worry so much that they did something out of step or in a different way than you would have.

 

If the work is suffering, that's when it becomes your responsibility to correct it.

 

I DO understand the need to be understanding, compassionate and "human" but it is not your job to be their friend or buddy - it's not evn important that they like you, that's the sucky part of management. It's important that YOUR boss like you and thinks you're doing a good job.

 

I guess - to make a short story long - my advice is to do the job you were hired to do to the best of your ability.

 

Best of luck - management can be a tough place to be.........

[annie24]

I think it depends on what line of work you are in. If her work is something that she can take care of anytime of the day, doesn't have to be exactly at 8 AM on the dot everyday, then I would let it go, as she is making up her hours at other times.

 

But if there are some ways she can improve her productivity or her work, to produce higher quality work, you can talk to her and give her suggestions.

 

On a related note, I like working odd hours because it's just quieter, less equiptment is being used and I can just be more productive.

[Celadon]

Lady Bugg, Ta_ree_saw, Annie -- you guys are great. Thanks for your advice.

 

One thing I was always afraid of when I opened my salon was people quitting on me if I didn;t give them what they wanted. Well..I soon realized that fear was keeping me from making realistic and appropriate decisions.

That's a really good point. I'm sure I'm fearful of something, which is making it hard for me to decide what to do in each instance. I guess if I could think about that -- fear -- and get to the root of it, that might help.

 

I think managers are there to make sure the job gets done in the most effective and efficent way - in the interest of the company...

 

If something is turned in complete and correct, don't worry so much that they did something out of step or in a different way than you would have.

 

If the work is suffering, that's when it becomes your responsibility to correct it.

 

I DO understand the need to be understanding, compassionate and "human" but it is not your job to be their friend or buddy - it's not evn important that they like you, that's the sucky part of management. It's important that YOUR boss like you and thinks you're doing a good job.

True, true and true! I didn't really think of it as my being the company's representative, but you're right - that's my job! In this case, her work quality isn't consistent; that's a challenge. It's not always great, and not always bad. But I guess I need to address problems instance by instance, so hopefully it'll become more consistent.

 

I think it depends on what line of work you are in. If her work is something that she can take care of anytime of the day, doesn't have to be exactly at 8 AM on the dot everyday, then I would let it go, as she is making up her hours at other times.

 

But if there are some ways she can improve her productivity or her work, to produce higher quality work, you can talk to her and give her suggestions.

We are somewhat deadline driven in my line of work. Being on time sure helps. Work CAN be done at other times, but it creates a complication that doesn't need to be there, imho. I like to keep things verrrrrrry simple, probably too simple! Sometimes makes me wonder if I should really be a manager, to be honest!

[Siriana]

If her coming later has an effect on other workers and productivity than you have to say to her that's not the option.

 

At my place where i work we have working time that can't be changed- from 8 a.m. till 4 p.m. If your place is the same - than she can't do that. Other people who work at the same place will find that annoying with time and sooner or later everyone will try to loosen up.

Also if she's needed by other employers early in the morning she can't be somewhere else.

 

Has she asked you a permition to do that?

Always keep in mind that as a boss you need to be respected - it is impossible for people to love you - you are their boss and every single day someone will be angry at you. That's the fact.

[ImThatGirl]

My being unsure of when someone's request is reasonable and when they're basically just taking advantage of me is starting to drive me nuts. I'm willing to be flexible and all.

 

But for example, one employee is in a long-distance relationship, and she drives to see her boyfriend one night during the week. This makes her late for work the next day, but she makes up the hours another day. (She's not the greatest employee either. She just does an okay job.)

 

I don't like it, but I also am trying to be human. I'm a very structured person, so if I were to have everything the way I want it, she and everyone would come in at exactly the same time every day.

 

Just curious - Have you already given her approval to do this or does she call in late on the late day and then make it up?

 

Also, is your company open to flexible schedules?

 

I'm wondering if she just thinks that this is acceptable and doesn't realize that it's causing a problem for you all?

[Celadon]

If her coming later has an effect on other workers and productivity than you have to say to her that's not the option.

 

Has she asked you a permition to do that?

Always keep in mind that as a boss you need to be respected - it is impossible for people to love you - you are their boss and every single day someone will be angry at you. That's the fact.

 

Thanks, syrix. She asks permission, but in a sort of "I'm doing this, is that okay?" sort of way. I think I need to be more deliberate in answering her. Maybe it would help for me to talk my decision through out loud, so she knows what the issues are and the impact of her request.

 

BTW, how do you advise gaining respect from my employees? I'm trying to be fair, and decisive, and to stand up to people when they are rude. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else is helpful to inspiring respect... Got ideas?

 

I'mThatGirl, I think she does know, but she has an overriding desire to see her boyfried - clearly! I think when that happens, it's easy for her to "excuse" her own behavior, to minimize (in her mind) what the impact is of what she's doing. I guess I should tactfully try to show her when she's causing problems.

[Survictor]

You have to distance yourself a little. Your business is to manage not to be their best friends. If you want to be their best friends, perhaps you are not manager material?

[charley]

I observe that you said "my way" and "me" many times. I think it's not about you, it's about the company, employees, and customers. I think those are a good manager's priorities.

 

I know just recently at work, a middle manager just laid down the law to a guy who is hard working, well meaning, and does better quality work than anyone else in that department, including the manager himself. So that employee was going to quit because he doesn't like being ordered around unnecessarily.

 

So this all ended up in the owner's office because he does NOT want his best maintenance man quitting, if he can avoid that. The other maintenance men said that everything was working well and the jobs were getting done and everyone was happy, until the middle manager guy decided to flex his muscles and show who's boss. Now there's discontent and bad morale in general in that department, and if that guy quits, there will be chaos at work.

 

Since the employee in question does good and reliable work, why rock the boat with him? He does things a bit different than the manager does, but so what? The guy was doing good work.

 

The company owner told this middle manager guy that he doesn't want him rocking the boat or flexing his muscles, unless it's for the benefit of the company, employees, and/or customers.

 

I was consulted as a 3rd party in this whole thing by the owner. I'm not in the maintenance department, but I'm very plugged into what goes on and why. My opinion agrees with the owner. Don't rock the boat with an employee who's getting it done with reasonable quality and reliability.

 

===============

 

On the other hand, one of my women friends was recently promoted to administrator. She does not need to consult me since she is now over me, but we were middle management peers for 9 years. It's lonely at the top as she's now finding some of her former friends no longer like her since she's their boss now. Also, some other friends are kissing up to her to gain favor at work. Favor at work should be earned. She consulted me about a particular employee who was middle management and who was publicly bucking her authority in front of other management and employees. Now I'm normally in favor of being mellow and not rocking the boat if everything and everyone is working out, but this situation is NOT working. The administrator asked my opinion and I told her that that middle manager had publicly challenged her authority to her face and behind her back (as she well knew). I told her that now you have to show her who's boss and if she can't deal with it, then terminate her. I also added to check with the owner first and not just do anything based on my advice. I don't want my neck on the chopping block, nor my friend's.

 

She checked with the owner. He said that he wanted to meet with the 3 of them and work things out if possible. If not possible, the middle management woman was going to be let go because he has to back the administrator, if things can't be worked out. Things did work out. It's a good thing to because the person would have been difficult to replace. Now the middle manager woman knows that the owner will back up the administrator woman. The middle manager is now cooperating.

 

My points are that you have to weight the benefits to the company (profits, employees as a whole, customers) of working things out, vs. leaving things be, vs. using some authority combined with persuasion, vs. just terminating someone. The words "me" and "I" and "my way" should not figure into that. It's just what's best for the company and reasonable in a human way? Since you are a human too, that is where "you" figure in. You have the right to expect the same fairness, loyalty, and respect that you give. If it's not working that way, then something needs to change and it's up to you to figure out what.

 

Then there's some employees who have an intentionally bad attitude and they are bad for the company. My thoughts in that case are "hit the road". In the past, we had two racist employees who said terrible things about their minority coworkers. The administrator and assistant administrator at the time wanted to sign them up for sensitivity training classes. The owner said, "People like that cannot be trained to be sensitive. It'd be a waste of time to try and would fail. Send them into my office right now and I'll give them sensitivity training." He fired them in his office 5 minutes later with no attempt to reform them because they were hopeless jerks.

 

================

 

People who are putting in a reasonable effort deserve to be left in peace, if they are doing their job in a satisfactory manner. Other people may benefit from some kindly guidance that is not authoritarian. Some people need a bit of authority to play ball, but they're overall decent workers and decent people. Some people cannot be relied on, and/or cannot be nice to others, and cannot be reformed - so good bye and good luck.

 

Much of this depends on the quality of people you have working for you. i.e. - are they responsible, reliable people, or not? Much of that depends on the pay scale. As the employee pay scales gets lower, you as a manager have to lower your standards. However, under no circumstances would I ever put up with bullies at work or racist bullies like the two I mentioned.

[Mrs Elliott Smith]

What you do for one, you must do for all. If you keep letting this girl get away with sleeping at her boyfriend's house, then coming in late the next day (even if she works later and makes up all the work) . . . everyone else is going to expect you to bend to their every (personal) need.

 

She has to realize that if she wants to keep this job, then she's going to have to commit to it. I'd like to sleep late 1 day a week and go to work late . . . but I am more conscious of the impression that I make on my bosses. This girl obviously doesn't give a sh--.

 

IMO... bend the rules a bit when someone's mother is dying, or when someone has a flat tire, or when someone's hot water heater floods the house. You need to draw the line between what people "need" to do (e.g. come in late to work because of a doctor's appointment), and what people simply "want" to do (e.g. come in late to work because someone wanted to sleeep in at her boyfriend's house."

[Siriana]

Oh, honey she's using you - I'm dooing it, so is it o.k.?! I couldn't dream about doing that to my boss! I'd be dead. Late for work often = getting fired.

Plus, who cares about her LDR. This is the point why LDR's are difficult - your real life obligations are stopping you from seeing your partner often. And her LDR is non of your business. Her personal life is non of your business. She's recieving money for her work - she's not in high school anymore.

Tell her she can't do that anymore (if she can't) and without apologizing tone in your voice.

 

The only thing they need to know is that:

1. You are beeing fair.

2. You want them to do their obligations on time and correct.

 

The biggest boss in my company is like that. People don't like her because she's pretty strict. It is a responisible job, her signature is on every single piece of paper, and she's dealing with all kinds of workers. So I simply can't find a reason for her to be different. But people do respect her. They certainly don't like her.

 

Stop thinking whether they like you, respect you. Do what you ned to do. If you're that kind of person who needs to feel loved by their employers .... well you will go crazy.

[charley]

You should treat employees according to their behavior, quality of work, skills, and how those things affect the company. More skilled employees typically have more responsible natures, but also are more difficult to replace so they have to be catered to more. Less skilled employees can be easily replaced so there's little or no reason to cator to them. Those are the facts of life.

 

Some companies don't mind having flexible hours for certain types of jobs, especially for highly skilled employees. Some of my hours are flexible, some are not. For those where I have to be somewhere at a certain time because either my employer or I see the need for it, then I'm there at those times. Otherwise, my hours are whatever I make them as long as I get the jobs done on schedule. i.e. - I'm self managed. However, the unskilled labor people at work have a strict schedule and receive limited lenience from management because those people need to be managed by their manager to make the schedule work and because those employees are inherantly less reliable, and also because they're easy to replace so management isn't going to cator to them much.

 

If this employee is causing you management problems that negatively affect the company (which includes other employees, customers, bottom line, and/or schedule) and those problems outweigh her benefit to the company, then put a stop to it.

 

I added the part about considering how problems balance against her benefits to the company because that should be considered. I had a college programming instructor who is a personal friend. He told me that he once managed a team of programmers and he had one guy who was consistently late or absent much of the time because the guy was an alcoholic. Yet he was never fired because he was a genius when he was sober and he was sober enough to outwork the other programmers each week. So this guy's benefits to the company outweighed his problems to the company and they kept him. If he'd been less skilled, they would have booted him out the door fast.

 

In your post, you've indicated this employee is nothing special in her work. So you have no reason to put up with this.

 

You've pretty much indicated that you find her behavior unacceptable because it sets a bad example for other employees. Also, I assume it wreaks havoc with your scheduling of employees? You've also said she's nothing special in her work. So it's a no brainer. Be nice, polite, yet firm with her and tell her she can't do this anymore. Tell her what is expected of her and what she must do to keep her job.

 

However, I'll give you one last piece of very important advice. Men sometimes yell and/or get violent when confronted by a manager. Women sometimes cry, sob, scream, and might even throw things at you. Most likely these things won't happen, but you never know in advance. Also, you can be accused of all sorts of things if she becomes upset with you. She could say that you made sexual advances at her and then fired her, or threatened to fire her because she refused. That's a classic tactic of an angry woman at work. I've seen it before. So I strongly suggest you talk to her at the end of the work day so that if she flips out, or if you must let her go, then at least you won't be faced with the choice of dealing with her the rest of the day at work vs. being short handed the rest of the day. Also, have a second management person present in your office as a witness when you talk to her. Naturally, this should be done in a private office away from other employees to avoid unnecessary humiliation for the employee.

 

Maybe she'll take it calmly and there's no problem and she reforms. Maybe you'll have to let her go. Maybe she'll quit. Maybe she'll wig out and quit, or wig out and you'll have to terminate her. Be prepared for any of these possiblities. Hopefully all goes smoothly.

[Celadon]

I observe that you said "my way" and "me" many times. I think it's not about you, it's about the company, employees, and customers. I think those are a good manager's priorities.

 

A quick reply now, more later. I think that's a really good point. Take myself out of the picture and simply inform people what the policies of the company are and that they are expected to meet them. I can be "human" from time to time, but it's not the basis on which I should be acting. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

[Lady Luck]

The best way for me to give you advice is to tell you what I'd like to see from my own managers.

 

Be empathetic- this is key. Always try to see the situation from your employee's point of view. This will make you seem kind, yet professional, and also human as well.

 

Never give off the attitude that "you're the boss, employees do as you say, or else!!" This actually makes them despise you, trust me, I'd know.

 

Overall just try to be nice. But not too too friendly, that just makes you look like you're trying to be everyone's friend. Which in turn may make them take advantage of you.

[Lady Luck]

Oh, and another thing. Don't put on the "my way or the highway" attitude. I think I said that in my last post as well, or something along the lines of it. So what if your employee does things his way? As long as he gets the job done, what's the big deal? Maybe he's more productive if he alters it to fit himself. As long as he's not slowing production down, or being harmful or destructive in any way, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

Don't let the position go to your head. That's the worst thing you could do.

 

The other one who always comes in late but makes up the time. Leave it be. People have personal lives, too. They're not just numbers, sheep, robots, whatever.. who come in and work for you, then go home, sleep, and come back. She sees him once a week. Put yourself in her shoes. Would you really give up all your time with your s.o. just so you wouldn't be late one time every week? I know I wouldn't. Just leave her be.

[Celadon]

OK, I'm back. So ... thanks to everyone for weighing in on this. You've got really great ideas and perspectives, and I think everyone's pointing out part of what is happening.

 

I've started taking more of a "this is company policy" approach to work, and that's helped me to not get sucked into feeling like my employee's bad attitude is personal against me. Or that I'm failing because I can't get her to toe the line. So that's good. At the same time, I also am willing to take responsibility for our communication not being as good as it could be. Sometimes I do feel a bit at a loss of how to relate to her, since she's been a bit unpredictable and, quite honestly, sometimes disrespectful through her immature behavior. I'm hoping that I'll figure out a way to get through to her, but it might take time.

 

I could come down hard on her, but I'm going to wait and see how things unfold over the next month. She has been trying to at least get her work done earlier than before, thus making herself a little more valuable at the company (and to me). Still, she turns in shoddy work sometimes, and she's not able to get in to work on time -- even on the days she's not commuting from her bf's city.

 

So in a way, I'm still in limbo, but only because I'm trying to not take drastic action (ie. fire her).

 

I don't think I let my position go to my head (at least, I hope not!). I just want to have a relaxed but productive workplace, where I don't have to deal with people's "issues" all the time. Let's just do the work, be proud of it, and then go home at night. That to me would be a no-brainer.

[annie24]

hm.... can you talk to some of your collagues at your level how to deal with her? how have other employees like her been dealt with in the past?

 

I mean, if she is turning in shoddy work, not being at work during her hours, maybe she really needs to make a change or get fired?

 

I don't know what your work culture is. Mine is relaxed, but I was talking to some people last week - one woman's appendix burst and they wouldn't let her go to the hospital. they just said she probably has cramps and if she left, they would fire her. She was in the hospital for months as a result.

 

I'm assuming your place of work is somewhere in between?

 

Does your company do some kind of "yearly review" of its employees? if so, you would point out to her if she doesn't turn in better quality work that you would have to record it on her yearly review.

[Celadon]

Yeah, we actually have a probation system. It's supposed to make people shape up in a hurry, and in fact, she's on probation. But clearly we're a lenient company in some ways.

 

The hesitation with coming down hard is that if we fire her, we have to find someone to replace her. The last time we had a vacant position, it took months to find someone qualified who would work on what little the company pays. So it's not as though we have anyone waiting in the wings. In fact, we're short staffed right now as it is.

 

What I'm learning is that some people, whether due to immaturity or other reasons, don't want to play ball. They just want to get by. Maybe it's a sense of entitlement. I don't know ...

 

BTW, that's incredible that your employers wouldn't let the woman with appendicitis go to the hospital! Yikes!

[annie24]

oh, she didn't work with me! She was working at a food company of some sort, in the manufacturing. I think she could totally sue. They were just telling her, oh, you have cramps get back to work.

 

really, this woman is already on probation?

[Celadon]

Hey there. I haven't been online for awhile, but just to let you know, I think we *will* end up firing her. She missed a whole day of work, no explanation except a tearful phone call in the afternoon. The only reason we didn't fire her on the spot is we've got too much else going on right now. Amazing that she hasn't gotten the concept of "when your bosses ask you to do something, you do it." Like, show up on time in the morning. It's crazy, I tell ya.

[annie24]

well, it sounds like you have given her a lot of chances. hopefully she will learn her lesson and be more reliable at her next place of employment.