A case of instant attraction...

[Lily04]

Interesting discussion here...

 

Batya, what for you constitutes a "true attraction"? I feel attracted to this guy, for ex., in that there is some chemistry and we have similar personalities & interests, but the initial physical attraction/spark wasn't there although it's starting to get stronger... but there's not that strong sexual attraction/tension present that I've experienced with other men...

[Batya33]

For me to go on a second date with someone (if the first date was a set up or through on line) I have to feel comfortable speaking to the person, think he is reasonably attractive/presentable and where I could imagine holding hands with or kissing the person at a future time. If I feel repelled, then by definition there is no attraction. Between repulsion and head over heels, there is a broad range for me. I know of some people who will not go on a second date unless they are completely bowled over where they can't sleep all night from the excitement. That is not me - I don't need to reach that level to give the person a chance to get to know me, and me to get to know him. I will admit it is hard to articulate what is meant by "true attraction."

 

If I only feel "friendship" type attraction/comfort I won't go beyond date four, if that.

 

I also will add that it has little to do with physical looks and a lot to do with the person's presense -how he carries himself - whether he sparkles (both personality and looks) - has confidence but not arrogance, etc. This is why the bar scene never really worked for me - I need to talk one on one in a setting where we can have a real conversation and it is not a "meat market."

[Miss M]

Well, I guess defining the word "attraction" is also important to a discussion like this. When I say "attraction" I'm thinking of feeling intrigued, curious, a lingering desire to know more about the person, and noticing a natural chemistry between the guy and me regarding communication and body language. I have to feel some of that to even consider a first date. I'm not usually interested in hanging out with a guy on a first date who doesn't intrigue me in some way, because without those vibes a date just feels like a bore and a chore.

 

And when I think or speak of "attraction," I'm not thinking of kissing, nor holding hands, and certainly not sex, not even for a future idea. And maybe that's why we're not agreeing on what's needed to even approach a first date? If you think of attraction as meaning kissing and holding hands, eventual sex, then no, that's not going through my mind at first contact, and not on a first date either. The first initial attraction that urges me to want to see more of a guy is just not that intimate in my mind. And that's not the kind of "attraction" I've been describing here.

[Batya33]

The difference for me is I am willing to endure one or two dates that are boring or feel like a part time job as long as the guy is a gentleman, smart and seems to have compatible values with me. I know people where it takes some time for their true personalities to come through. Sometimes nerves impeded them from being "intriguing." If I remain bored on date two then, no I likely would not see the person again. I call it my "on the fence" standard - my mindset after a first date like that. If that happens I will try to plan the second date to be shorter, during the day, in between other plans, etc.

[Carnatic]

I do like Batya's way, I mean I doubt I could come accross as intriguing on a first date. But if a girl wanted to go on a date with me, and I couldn't picture wanting to kiss or hold her right from the start... then I might turn her down... then again I have no idea because I've never been on that kind of date, I've only ever been on one 'date' and it was a blind one (blind from my perspective anyway)... I only did that because mates assured me I'd like her.

 

I'll give a recent example... one of my mates recently contacted me to say she had a friend who might like to meet me. She later directed me to her friend's myspace profile (in secret as her friend hadn't wanted me to know) where I saw pictures of her friend and was able to read about her. I didn't find her particularly attractive from the photos, and reading on revealed that her lifestyle might not be that compatible with mine. So I decided I'd rather not arrange to meet up with her as it would probably be seen as a date and I didn't want that when she evidently saw some initial attration in me and I would only be meeting her to see if the relationship might be a slow burner. That's not to say that if I ever ended up meeting her I wouldn't be interested to see what she was really like and open to the possibility that I might like her... but I would prefer to do that without arranging a 'date'.

 

Interestingly and off-topic... mentioning these two instances, as well as another instance this year has made me realise, girls never just come up to me and say they like me, they always ask a mutual friend if that friend could find out if I might be interested without me finding out they are interested... that mutual friend then just comes out and tells me someone likes me. Why?

[Lily04]

Carnatic, I completely agree with your perceptions on this... I think physical attraction is very important as it influences the spark you feel with someone, and for that reason I am going to tell the guy that I don't see him in that way. I went out with the prof. yesterday... we went to a Shakespearean play in the park, and it was alright... I could tell he was very attracted to me, and he dressed more stylishly/formally and wore glasses as I said I liked when he wore glasses... but to be honest, I still wasn't attracted to him. Physically anyway. And when we got talking a bit more (this was our 3rd date) I realized that we do have many things in common, but our personalities were different and I tend to be attracted to men who are more outgoing/charismatic. As a student politician, I have been described as being a charismatic person, I sorta have a talent for drawing people to me... and I suppose I admire that in others as well. Just someone with a bit more empathy for others, it's a very subtle quality but I notice he doesn't really have it so much... probably because he is very intelligent. I do not have such a high analytic intelligence as him I know... but my interpersonal skills compensate.

 

I am going out on a 4th date with him tomorrow for dinner, but I think I will ask just to be friends. I mean, on the 2nd date with the other guy we were already making out and I felt such a strong chemistry between us... but with this guy although we hug goodbye, we still don't hold hands or brush fingers -- that intimate contact isn't really there. And I think intimacy is important and since I'm not attracted to him in that way I'm not sure if it will develop.

 

We did go on 3 dates, and the first 2 were great. Just my 2 cents, I'd encourage people to go on dates if they feel a connection with someone as well & explore it, but after a few dates (there's no set number really) you realize you don't feel an attraction, it's only fair to let the person know & not lead them on. I could tell from the first date that I wasn't really physically attracted to this guy but I thought I'd give it a shot...but I just realize now that he's also lacking other characteristics so I don't see us in a relationship...

 

That's my update anyway, and thoughts on the manner. I wish you the best of luck, Miss M -- you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders & I'm sure you'll be fine!

 

Lily

[Lily04]

 

Interestingly and off-topic... mentioning these two instances, as well as another instance this year has made me realise, girls never just come up to me and say they like me, they always ask a mutual friend if that friend could find out if I might be interested without me finding out they are interested... that mutual friend then just comes out and tells me someone likes me. Why?

 

I personally usually try to tell by verbal/body language cues if someone likes me instead of asking someone to find out, but I suppose some girls do this. It's simply a coping mechanism... I mean no one wants to be rejected. If you personally ask yourself you're opening yourself up to vulnerability...if *you* show interest but he does not... that is what I was scared of and so I try to act a bit distant sometimes on the first few dates, because I don't want to get hurt. It's a way of distancing myself from getting too attached... I think guys do the same though. No one wants to fall too fast or get rejected so they will find ways around it... this is simply one thing girls do to try to remove the anxiety or perhaps make things less stressful.

 

HTH. Btw, i think you're pretty good-looking as well in your pics, but as I was insecure for a while I can relate to your anxieties...confidence is very sexy though, so don't worry so much about it. =)

 

Lily

[Batya33]

That's just an old fashioned game played by those who want to avoid face to face rejection.

 

I try never to judge whether I would be attracted from a photo - there are extremes - where I know for sure it wouldn't work (such as someone who has long hair, tattoos, is grossly obese, etc) or where I am bowled over but I have been bowled over by photos but not in person because the person lacked spark/personality.

 

I have been on well over a hundred blind dates - some phenomenal, some awful, many in between.

 

As far as meeting someone where you're on the fence I think there's a way to meet up and diplomatically express that it's not a date, such as meeting for lunch during the work day which can go either way. I have done that and it seems to work out.

[Miss M]

The difference for me is I am willing to endure one or two dates that are boring or feel like a part time job as long as the guy is a gentleman, smart and seems to have compatible values with me. I know people where it takes some time for their true personalities to come through. Sometimes nerves impeded them from being "intriguing." If I remain bored on date two then, no I likely would not see the person again. I call it my "on the fence" standard - my mindset after a first date like that. If that happens I will try to plan the second date to be shorter, during the day, in between other plans, etc.

Well, at this stage I'm not the least bit interested in coming out of isolation to be bored with a "job"... I'd much rather watch paint dry. And as I've mentioned before I've had plenty of experiences of hanging around "for their true personalities to come through" but that's also not appealing anymore ... for various reasons. But that's not to say I'm overly-fussy, intolerant or impatient, because I'm certainly not like that either. I also don't routinely dismiss guys who are simply nervous. And a person doesn't actually have to be "intriguing" for me to be "intrigued"... just like I thought Carnatic looks "intriguing" in his pic, but all he's really doing is sitting there looking glum...(obviously it doesn't take all that much to "intrigue" me ). It's just that in some ways I'm just like you in that I immediately know without a doubt what I do and don't want.

 

But I'm also different from you in that I wouldn't dismiss a guy with long hair (because I happen to find long hair especially "intriguing")... in fact, my super-intelligent, dry-witted, rumpled tweed-jacketed, dowdy professor BF had a ponytail. And I'm also totally into dreadlocks of any length, but especially the long ones. I guess while you have zero tolerance for long hair and tats, I would accept those things, but would reject someone who's my idea of a painful bore. It seems each of us has our own particular preferences and intolerances... (and that is exactly as it should be).

 

I doubt I could come accross as intriguing on a first date.

I wrote that the way you look in your photo was "intriguing," not because you're handsome, but because you look pensive, deep in thought. Someone who appears to think deeply is intriguing to me. And whenever I'm intrigued, the date naturally goes well because I'm pretty good at putting a person at ease and drawing out more of the qualities that initially interested me. For those girls who've already shown an interest in you, do you expect that their interest will somehow go downhill if you go out with them?

 

Interestingly and off-topic... mentioning these two instances, as well as another instance this year has made me realise, girls never just come up to me and say they like me, they always ask a mutual friend if that friend could find out if I might be interested without me finding out they are interested... that mutual friend then just comes out and tells me someone likes me. Why?

From the way you've often described yourself in your posts I sometimes wonder if you appear aloof and intimidating. Not sure if that's it, but that's one possibility. Or maybe it's a cultural thing? Do girls in your country typically approach and ask guys out for dates? But then again, you've also mentioned that girls have approached and comfortably chatted with you while the other guys were all eager for you to share the secrets of your magic charm. You said the guys were sure the girls were interested in and pleased with you. So do you think those girls were talking with you because they found you UNappealing? Carnatic, you probably should stop trying to tell yourself that you wouldn't make a good date because really, we both already know better than that, eh?

 

I wish you the best of luck, Miss M -- you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders & I'm sure you'll be fine!

Lily, thanks for the good comments and good wishes. Many guys who meet me in person say the same thing, and are puzzled as to why I'm single. My biggest problem is that I seem too nice, too thoughtful, too accommodating, too accepting, too self-less, too trusting... in other words, a doormat. Unfortunately that most often attracts the kinds of guys I really don't need and don't want. I'm trying to pay more attention to how to change that as I contemplate getting back in the game.

 

And Lily, I also hope you find that guy who does it for you. But I hope you don't maintain the conclusion that you have to forgo intelligence in order to find empathy because those two things can indeed exist in the same person. Empathy and intelligence are definitely not mutually exclusive, in fact I fully insist/expect that BOTH of those qualities are absolute "must-haves" that need to exist in any guy who catches my eye.

[Batya33]

I will not date a guy who is a complete bore but there is of course a wide range of "boring" - lol.

[Lily04]

 

And Lily, I also hope you find that guy who does it for you. But I hope you don't maintain the conclusion that you have to forgo intelligence in order to find empathy because those two things can indeed exist in the same person. Empathy and intelligence are definitely not mutually exclusive, in fact I fully insist/expect that BOTH of those qualities are absolute "must-haves" that need to exist in any guy who catches my eye.

 

Hey Miss M.,

 

Of course they're not mutually exclusive qualities! But it often seems that the more intelligent and the more inclined to introversion a person is, the less outgoing they seem... which is also what I'm attracted to. Seems a bit contradictory...which may be why it's so hard for me to find that mix. I don't want to generalize too much... empathy is definitely possible in an introvertive person, but I suppose I was talking more about the type of empathy that comes with charisma? When a charismatic person can really make you feel like you're unique and being listened to, and sorta strike you... in a way he feels like he can relate to you and almost see through you. THAT along with an outgoing/leadership quality, I don't really know how to describe it, it's just something you know... But definitely possible. I'm glad you're also still searching because it shows you're not settling & going for what you know you want in a mate! =)

 

Lily

[Miss M]

Hey Lily, now that you've described it more, it seems like you're really talking about extroversion vs introversion... and both extroverts and introverts can be very intelligent, but they're not typically both empathetic. Extroverted people are very outgoing, but tend to have much less empathetic qualities. And introverted people tend to be quieter, withdrawn, seemingly more inwardly focused, but are typically much more empathetic. So, finding an outgoing person who's also empathetic might indeed be a tall order, but maybe it's still possible? I dunno... but it just seems that those charming extroverts are actually just very skilled at displaying fake empathy. And it may seem as if they can connect meaningfully and see straight through you, but it's not usually satisfying in the long run.

 

And you really bring up good/interesting points about extroversion/introversion. We usually think that because extroverted people are outgoing, charming, outwardly focused on other people, that they are plugged into and paying attention to other people in a good way. But according to author/psychologist Marti Olsen Laney, extroverts are really more self-serving because extroverts are ultimately attention-seekers. They are extroverted because they feel satisfied and nurtured by the attention they get from others. And they also enjoy seeing the powerful affect they have on others. Conversely, while introverts seem more self-absorbed, they're actually much more outwardly focused than they seem. Laney says introverts are introverted as a way of trying to counter-balance their compulsive outward focus. That's why empathy typically exists more in introverts, because empathy is truly an outwardly focused quality. And that's another explanation as to why that first guy I met was a turn-off. He was outgoing, aggressive, charismatic, and I've found that those types typically leave me feeling ultimately dissatisfied. So at first I was charmed, yes, but then the inner sirens were ringing, telling me something was off center.

 

If you like to read and want to know more about the dynamics of introversion/extroversion, you might like to check out Laney's book The Introvert Advantage. Her book helped me a lot and really shed light on some things that had perplexed me for years. And thanks also for bringing this up, because you just helped me remember a very important part of the "attraction" dynamic.

 

I'm glad you're also still searching because it shows you're not settling & going for what you know you want in a mate! =)

Yes, "settling" is WAY overrated, and simply not an option anymore. And you're right... it seems that despite my stubborn and prolonged withdrawal, "love" isn't done with me just yet.

[Carnatic]

Did I have a post deleted?

 

I'm sure I said, so what you are saying Miss M is that rather than being extroverted because they understand people better, people may be extroverted because they don't understand people... seeing them as mere playthings and not empathising enough to be more careful in what they say?

[Miss M]

so what you are saying Miss M is that rather than being extroverted because they understand people better, people may be extroverted because they don't understand people... seeing them as mere playthings and not empathising enough to be more careful in what they say?

Yeah, something like that. But keep in mind that this is a generalization and probably doesn't apply equally to all extroverts. But yes, extroverts are generally in need of an audience and that's really why they're so amazingly charming in the beginning, seeming to see others so clearly.

 

When I look at the types of guys who are charming, aggressive and initially very attentive, they've always been extroverts. In the "meeting" stage they act as if they're focused and eager to know every detail about me. That can feel very satisfying to someone who doesn't usually feel heard or understood. But eventually those guys became the complete opposite, focused only on themselves, demanding all the attention. And they become perplexed and burdened by the fact that I also expected them to pay as much pay attention to me as I paid to them.

 

Also keep in mind that this is just a short explanation... Laney goes into a lot more detail in her book.

[Carnatic]

I'm curious to know what you mean by 'aggressive' you've used it several times, usually along with words like 'charming' and 'attentive'. So I know you don't mean it as in they are short tempered and confrontational. Is it something like being very forthright and conversationally dominant like a salesman who you might describe as aggressive.

[Miss M]

I'm curious to know what you mean by 'aggressive' you've used it several times, usually along with words like 'charming' and 'attentive'. So I know you don't mean it as in they are short tempered and confrontational. Is it something like being very forthright and conversationally dominant like a salesman who you might describe as aggressive.

Yes, I've been using "aggressive" meaning "forthright," or bold and self-confident. It's a guy who sees what he wants and just goes after it without hesitation or fear, but not with the negative qualities, (because "rude boys" have never been attractive to me anyway). Yes, some guys are "aggressive" while also being totally appealing, charming, charismatic. They're also warm, "attentive," and even kind and gracious in the beginning, and come off as being very genuine, but later something totally different emerges.

 

Is it something like being very forthright and conversationally dominant like a salesman who you might describe as aggressive.

The "salesman" comparison is a good one. The best salesman is aggressive, but is also the one who convinces you that you he is genuine and believes in his product. He seems concerned about your well-being, and convinces you that you would benefit by buying the product. He is "attentive," (sees right through his customer), and figures out moment by moment just how to pitch the sale. But the whole time he could care less about you and is only smiling at and charming you because of how it will ultimately benefit him.

 

I think some women gets a badly skewed experience of the dating world because they are constantly being approached by hordes of aggressive but useless guys, some of whom are terrific and charismatic salesmen, but are very horrible at being in a long-term meaningful relationship.

[Miss M]

UPDATE:

I saw and chatted again with the guy in the park. (And I hope he doesn't read this because he will certainly recognize himself. Anyways, he soon got bold and very flirty with me. And since I had previously detected that he was in a relationship, I responded to his flirtiness by point-blank asking him about that relationship. Well, turns out he's married, loves his wife, but says it's not enough, so he's looking for more. And he was hopeful that I might be interested in being a part that. Geez. I don't think these types of guys understand that we women don't feel at all flattered when they want to use us as their playthings on the side.

 

Well, I told him I was indeed very interested in having a guy of my own, but not one who belonged to another woman... and I told him I'd also like him to not be the kind of guy who would venture out to flirt with other women in the park.

 

Well, this guy seemed like a two-timer, but not malicious, so I kept chatting with him. Oddly I ended up asking him for dating advice, a guy's perspective. And he even gave me a couple of helpful pointers of how to break the ice with the types of shy guys who really do interest me. And I gave him a female's perspective on something he could do to seduce his wife. He smiled gleefully, gratefully... and scurried right off to put it into action.

 

But before he left he kept encouraging me to start dating again, telling me not to give up... so I asked him if he knew any available single guys who were NOT like him. Well, he TOTALLY agreed that I shouldn't have a guy like him, but he couldn't presently recommend anyone. bah.

 

And oh, he told me I looked 28-30... at least that part was a really nice ego boost for this woman who feels VERY 50ish. But lately more and more people have guessed my age as 30, and it makes me rethink this whole dating thing. Maybe I need to consider younger men? Or maybe that's another reason I need to do more to approach the guys, because the decent ones my age perhaps disregard me thinking I'm much too young for them? But all in all, this was a very interesting day.

[Lily04]

Hey,

 

That's awesome!! So your intuitions were right about this guy, good for you! I'm glad you had enough courage & common sense to ask him if he were in a relationship point-blank... some women can't do that, but you're obviously mature (although look younger... perfect combination IMO.) Honestly, I'm sure you'll find the right guy for you, it'll just take some time... how old was this guy if you don't mind me asking? like how old did he look, in his 30s? Maybe try going to some more "mature" clubs in your city or organizations of interest... those seem to be good recommendations for more mature people... even though you may look 20ish, you may not want to date teenagers who tend to frequent the clubs i used to go to! lol. So just search around for appropriate venues in your area...

 

I can't remember if I posted my "update" either but I decided to break it off with the older guy I was dating... although he is a really nice guy so I asked if we could just be friends. He was a bit hesitant and hurt at first, but said it might be possible. Now we still keep in touch, although his emails to me are still a tad flirtatious and I think he's hoping that we will start dating again, once stress cools down with school. However, even though I am really busy right now, that's not the reason why I broke it off with him... I hope he realizes that, but I don't think I should say it outright as well. I did tell him when we met though that I didn't feel attracted to him "in that way", I didn't really feel chemistry b/w us, so I think that should be straightforward enough. But you know guys... sometimes they just don't want to accept it, or will think "well even though she said that... she REALLY means", and construct other scenerios.

 

Anyhoo, I am totally busy on my end, and having a lot of fun so far. I don't think I should have problems meeting people per se, although meeting people i'm attracted to is always a bit difficult, but if nothing happens that's fine. I don't really care, too much going on right now... just decided i'm not looking to be in a relationship. But if something happens that's cool too. basically just being open & friendly should lead to something i figure. I'd give you the same advice as well.

 

Good luck... I won't be on for a while, but if you want to chat or anything, continue to post updates or PM me!

 

Lily

[Miss M]

Hey Lily, Yeah this guy was awful in that he was clearly interested in a sexual fling (while married)... and he promptly got onto that subject rather quickly... so yeah, I had to also get pointed in my own questions to him. Long ago I decided to be just as pointed as they were, because when a guy is being that bold it's not a time to be timid or hesitant about sorting out all the details. (And the fact that I was once in the military, outnumbered by lots of horny guys, that also helps. Military women soon learn that timidity is pointless.)

 

Well, at least this guy (I'll call him J) was honest enough to tell the truth about his marital situation, because so many guys don't. But even if he were single, I simply wouldn't be interested in him in any way because he clearly just had sex on the brain. When I asked J about his scoping for women while he's married, he said he was hoping I'd be a woman who was looking for some "no-strings" sex with a married guy. Um, how about NO WAY! Yeah, I'm kinda greedy in that way, and I want my very own guy, all to myself. geez.

 

And oh, J is 53 (and that's about how old he looked) but he thought I was 25 years younger, and was hoping for sex with me? So what's the deal with that? I really don't get why some men routinely chase women that much younger, or why that's a cultural norm. When I was 28 I certainly wanted nothing to do with a 53 year old man. But not all men are into younger women. So what if there's a decent guy my own age who might be available and interested who thinks I'm 30? If he's not into younger women he might just look at me, say "eh, no way," and then walk away. So that's something I want to think more about. Yeah, I might look 30, but I definitely feel 50, and I'm definitely mostly into the guys my own age. And I don't want the nice ones to pass me by just because they think I'm too young for them.

 

But anyway, I ended up asking J for dating advice and he actually gave me a few good pointers. In all other ways he really seemed very nice, well-mannered, kind, open, easy to talk to. It's just too bad he's routinely scoping out chicks for extramarital sex, and cheating on his wife. ugh.

 

Also Lily, good luck on your dating ventures. I hope you soon find the right guy for you, (no matter what his age ). And I agree that "chemistry" is vitally important. And don't just settle for any guy either... hold out for the guy you really want. There are plenty of "Mr. Wrongs" out there and finding them is easy. However, finding "Mr. Right" takes a lot of insight and patience.

[Carnatic]

Sounds like a strange guy this J... sounds very cocky if you ask me, you know the sort who have rather dubious morals (wanting to cheat on his wife) but are totally open about it and even very nice about it as though it was the most normal thing in the world. Guys like this who I have met tend to give me the impression they are boasting about sexual conquests though.

 

As far as the topic of this thread goes though... regardless of what I may have said in previous posts; looking back I seem to have completely lost faith in instant attraction without realising it. When I first started using enotalone, like many people I would ask for advice on approaching girls who I had seen that I really liked and who I thought might like me... but the last time I really felt that way about a girl that I really liked her, wanted to make a move was 2 years ago.

 

Since then I've still met girls I was attracted to and, if anything more, girls who seemed attracted to me, but it just hasn't seemed as real, I haven't felt like I really had a reason to take any of it seriously and consider approaching a girl. It's seemed like instant attraction no longer makes me feel that a girl is special in any way and even though I would still like to do something, it's just seemed pointless, as though it's just a slight crush when it should be an infatuation. But really I can't see any way that it should be different, I just need to get the faith back in my sense of attraction.

[Miss M]

Carnatic, yes, I absolutely agree J is cocky, (and also pleasant, open, and also a mixture of some other conflicting stuff). On some level that's really a huge insult that a guy would look at me and think "yeah, a meaningless sexual fling-thing is what I'd like to do with her." Ugh, that's just so off-putting. I think I've just gotten weary of feeling angry or grieved about it because anger/grief only hurt me, not the guy. Also it seems "cocky" guys (whether married or single) are routinely very attracted to me, a pattern that I've only recently begun to understand. On another level I thought it was too bad J's interest was inappropriately sexual, because darn it, I found him to be a nice person in other ways... oh well.

 

As to the rest you said about attraction, that's also describes how I was feeling about that first guy who caused me to start this thread. I was thinking "attraction" simply doesn't mean anything anymore. Often it's like "Oh well, I'm feeling attracted, so what, been there done that." Yeah, kinda jaded, but that's reality. The feelings wane, but it seems they never completely go away, and sometimes they sneak back unexpected. And just like me I suspect there will continue to be occasions for you when someone will come along who tugs at you mightily... because despite our cynicism, it seems we're still hard-wired to feel attracted, and to seek companionship from significant others.

[Carnatic]

I know... having realised that I have lost it and that I want to start feeling and acting upon attraction again I now have to wait till I can get a job away from home as my home town is far too small and isolated for anything to happen (girls up here tend to all go for the macho, tall rugby player/manual labourer type). So I'm quite anxious, I don't want to end up stuck here. If I go to Liverpool I even know girls already who I am attracted to and who I should be seeing as a serious possibility of asking out instead of a 'yeah she's pretty' thing.

 

Hard to say why I lost faith in attraction... It could be that I had some bad experiences of it... girls I was attracted to in the past, especially one girl didn't really have good personalities to match. Sometimes, after I'd been hurt, realised I'd just been led along, my eyes were opened and I realised (in one case anyway) they weren't even good looking. With her I'd just fooled myself into becoming obsessed with a girl who was a and who I didn't fancy just because she had been slightly flirty when we first met. Nedless to say I got over her fast after that, but I probably lost trust in my own feelings of attraction at that point. Other girls had been genuinely attractive and the last one even had a genuinely lovely personality, but I was too shy to make a move... I had broken my barriers to making a move once and got hurt so now I was all shy again... then it just sort of stopped and I stopped taking attraction seriously at all, as though I didn't care that I was lonely and considered it folly to try and do anything about it.

 

Strangely this taking attraction less seriously seems to have coincided with a time when I'm finding it much easier to talk and be a little flirty with girls and, slowly but surely, realising that it's not completely beyond the pale for a girl to be attracted in me, and that it might even be common.

[Miss M]

Carnatic, it sounds like you (like me) opted out of the "game" because of some painful unpleasantness. And while reading your post, I'm amazed (again) at how much we have in common, even though we're very different in location/country, experiences, gender, race, and age. Yeah, I also don't trust my feelings of attraction since it's always led to useless or painful situations, but I do think I'm gradually shifting and getting better at sorting it out. For example, I'm losing that feeling of attraction for those who are inappropriate for me, and getting naturally attracted towards better choices. And as I've mentioned before, "attraction" isn't really a "choice" since we can't make ourselves feel attracted to who we aren't, but getting a new perspective (in my case therapy) often changes for whom we feel attraction. But in any case, since I can't opt out of the game even at my age, I tend to doubt that you can either. So, "life" probably isn't yet done with you, and "attractions" will be likely continue to ebb and flow until it gets all sorted out for you. I wish you success with that, and hope that happens soon for you.

[Lily04]

Hey,

 

Sorry about my previous message (if anyone saw -- likely not since it was written around 3:00 a.m.) -- I was just feeling really upset and didn't realize I may have added some profanity as a result of my emotions. But in any case... after reading your updated posts I have to say that I really feel the same way, and I feel somewhat dejected.

 

Why? while I am campaigning I'm meeting tons of people. I notice a lot of guys are attracted to me. But they don't really take an extra step further, beyond staring and some flirting. They don't ask for my contact info., or really follow up. And that's ok, because most guys I'm not totally attracted to either, but I just pretend I am because it's easy votes. But one guy today I was sorta attracted to (I'm honestly not even sure, i'm just that jaded now lol) and he suggested I come back tomorrow for this event that's going on, but the reason why he suggested it was because there will be a lot of people there (I asked when's the busy time around this area, where I can meet the most people in the shortest time essentially), and I can get votes. He will probably be there, he didn't say. He did mention where he lived (but again I had to ask) and we held eye contact a lot, he sorta flirted, said he'll take my flyers and hand them out to all his friends, but that was it. He didn't say anything like "I hope to see you tomorrow" or whatever.

 

I don't know. One of my friends who's a guy (umm who's actually also attracted to me, not so sure he sees me as a friend... but regardless i see him as one..) told me that when he first met me he saw me as really hard to get. He said that he got the impression that if someone wanted to date me they'd have to really invest a lot of time in me. He said one reason guys may not pursue me is because they don't want to spend that much time. I think that may be more true for guys who are not particularly attractive to me, because then I'd have to get to know their personality well and become friends first... if there's not that instant attraction/spark. But if that's missing I likely won't date them anyway. I think if there is that spark, then it shouldn't take that long, and I'd be willing to date at the start.

 

The problem is two-fold in that 1) most guys I am not attracted to. 2) The guys I am slightly attracted to, or maybe even am attracted to... don't tend to do anything about it. I should have got that guy's contact info., but honestly it felt like I was doing more of the work there by actually being the one to randomly approach him, start a conversation etc., I wanted him to take a little initiative by ending it if he found me interesting enough. I got the sense that he might have had a girlfriend & didn't see me in that way... i.e. he was physically attracted to me, but not much more. So if that's the case, then whatever, i'm not going to bother. But if it wasn't, then I expected it would only be fair for him to close the deal essentially, by asking for my contact info. or something.

 

I am definitely becoming more outgoing as a result of this stuff, BUT also frustrated because I like guys who are similarly outgoing & confident enough to approach a girl, and it seems like most aren't. Most are more than happy when a pretty girl approaches them but won't do it themselves. Similarly, i'd appreciate it if THEY asked for my number/e-mail. They may get the sense, however, that I'm not that much into them either, as I'm hardly ever into any guy to the point that i'm almost suspecting I'm asexual (not gay, but just not into either sex.) One of my roommates told me this... that guys may get the sense that I'm not into them, if I give off that aura, and I think I might... because I'm a perfectionist perhaps or I don't know. In my whole life, I've only really been attracted to one guy and he didn't even like me (I think he either had a girlfriend or was gay though, there's a some reasons for suspecting the latter.) But anyway........................ugh I just feel like crying. A lot of stuff happened today though, completely unrelated to this and I have to sort that out.......too much work. This is just an afterthought but it still bugs me.

 

And I really shouldn't even be on here......... But anyway... I sympathize with you guys. It's a tough life lol....

[Carnatic]

Aw Lil... I hope you feel better when you settle into your new university year. It can be quite hectic, and Miss M, it's nice to know there's a someone out there with enough in common to give advice that seems so well targeted to my life... both of you in fact.

 

I've got the feeling the way I approach girls is similar to the guy you spoke of in the second paragraph... I will be quite approachable, and go through all the flirting 'come-on' actions but I won't ask a girl her number or make a definite approach. I always hoped that girls would pick up on the possibility of me being interested and make a move themselves. I did wonder whether or not this just gave girls the impression that I wasn't interested in them. I guess if those girls are anything like you Lil then they might find it annoying. as you said 'I wanted him to take a little initiative by ending it if he found me interesting enough'... I just assumed they wouldn't be interested in me so what was the point in trying, but maybe that's my problem: girls dismiss me, not because they never had any interest in me, but because they didn't feel I was worth making a move over if I wasn't going to make a move myself. Do either of you two feel a guy has to make a move to prove his worth. Sometimes I wish that all the battle for equality in the 60's had led to girls being just as likely to make a move on guys as the other way round. It's perhaps easier for the female versions of me out there to get guys.

 

I should force myself to do something, but's it difficult when I don't have girls fawning over me to give encouragement... or at least if I do then I don't notice and will have to make a bit more of a leap of faith to say be encouraged by snippets of possible attraction I do get, I'm annoyed with myself for even caring now. However neither of you two girls seem to have enjoyed being fawned over that much, so maybe it's a poisoned chalice.