Am I intimidating?

[DaXMan]

As you can see by the title to this thread, I think there is a chance I don't have a gf or some girls lining up to see me because I can be intimidating...?

 

I thought this out: A lot of people know me or know of me (some of that may be due to doing morning announcements - who knows), I speak pretty well compared to most other students at school (not really really big words, but not gansta either), I apparently seem to be "respected" (everybody, guys and girls alike congratulated me when I got accepted to my desired college - seemed like a lot of attention. Also, a lot of people say hey to me in te halls and such) and, according to some girls (who have decent social standing too), I am "confident and mature", which is always good. Although I am just around 5'6" and have decent body build and I think I look alright (but again, I'm short - a lot of girls are my height), I don't feel I am a bad package at all.

 

That wasn't meant to be bragging or anything - just background. I think the biggest factor to my "thought" is that I don't flirt all the time. A bunch of guys flirt 24/7, or at least more thna I do. But it's not like I don't flirt at all - I do, just not all the time. I also talk to girls about things like who their next game is against and other conversational things, unlike a few of these big flirters.

 

Here are a few examples of where I may be getting at (each one is short):

-I am walking down the hall w/ a friend. Some girl comes over and hugs/talks to my friend, right in front of me! If I don't know her, then it's no biggie. If I do know her, I wonder why she wouldn't even acknowledge me (I'll pop in a "hey" or "what's up", but it usually doesn't get far). As you can see, this has occurred more than once.

-My experience with asking out girls has been interesting. I do aim for girls that are more attractive, but are also good people (I got guts lol...I have a "no one is out of my league" mentality). The thing is, when they've said no, they never throw out that awkwardness. They lead me on apparently, say no when I ask them out (one or two even just ran away - dunno why) and then after a week or so when the awkwardness should be gone, they don't really talk to me much again. I try to start a conversation like normal, but the girl's answers are usually very short and it appears she doesn't want to even talk to me. Usually, this results in a loss of contact - it's odd that this seems to happen most of the times I've asked a girl out though.

-Some girls (not all) seem to get rather serious and not as open or loose when talking with me. These girls can be very open to my friends, laughing, etc. But when I come along and say hey with a smile/smirk (I'm just like the rest of my friends), they don't have that same attitude they do with my friends - even if I know the girl. They act more closed towards me compared to others I know (even if we know the girl just as well), and I don't know why. I can get girls to smile, but it's not the same.

-A little off-topic, but I am no "nice guy" either. I used to be in 9th-10th grade, but not now. I "neg-hit" on girls when there's a good opportunity and I won't necessarily say the "nice thing" (girl scored nine points...I comment how the team blew a 15-point lead, just to bust her chops). Yesterday, some girl walked towards the garbage can to toss her lunch bag, but she missed by a mile and hit me. Before she and her friends could finish saying "ooo, u hhit DaXMan" and sat down, I had tossed the bag back to the girl and her friends, with a smirk on my face. I think this is just trying to improve rep here though.

 

Those are just a couple examples. I can be funny and laid back, but also serious when it comes to getting things done. A lot of people think I'm very smart, but I've never touched an AP in high school and I'm just in the top quarter of my class (near 400 kids). They also find me aware of whats's going on, which surprises me. So, could I possibly be a bit intimidating without know it in the eyes of girls?

[Mrocza]

Maybe it's just your matturity compared to the others?

I mean you say you're smart + respected + all-around liked + you mentioned you don't follow in the usual high school fads...+ you're not like every other horomone crazed teen, flirting all the time with any and every girl.

Maybe you're just picking the wrong girls?? I wouldn't be too offended by it.

[cruisin]

DaX -- To me it doesn't sound like intimidation so much as you just don't sound very nice. I mean, you don't come accross as someone friendly, especially when you say nasty things (like blowing the lead) just to "bust her chops." What the h@ll does that mean anyhow? "bust her chops??" People aren't going to like you if you're not nice and not friendly. Posing and acting cool or saying clever things will only get you so far, probably where you are now, being "respected" as you put it. I'd say people just don't like your attitude or at least the attitude they perceive. If you ARE really a sweet guy underneath all that outer whatever then start showing it. People aren't looking to find out what you're about by getting to know you better. They want to see what you're about and then get to know you better. You constantly talk about how smart you are, how much "guts" you have etc. Really, you sound pretty arrogant to me. Again, if that's NOT the case, then correct it. If you come accross like that to me, then you will surely have made that impression on others. Look, take it from someone who's been there, smarts aren't what makes a person popular!

[Dating Coach]

In high school most people are immature, and if you are a loony wild wacky kid then maybe the girls just aren't digging you. IMO that's okay because most girls in HS aren't worth dating anyway.

 

I like your confidence though in thinking that you deserve something great because that's half the battle right there.

[DaXMan]

You're not suggesting I always say nice things to girls, right? Cuz that's just funny - if a guy says nice things to girls ALL THE TIME, it's never gonna work - "nice guys finish last." Anyway, the girl I said this to knew I was just joking around. Of course I wouldn't just say this to some stranger.

 

Again, this goes along with what I wrote in red font. Being nice 24/7 does not work - I don't even think it can be done. Sounds more like you're St. Peter here. And when did I say people in general did not like me? If that was the case, I'd have no friends at all, no one would want to say anything to me, and no one to talk to.

 

Outer whatever? You make me sound like Satan. I don't go around dissing people all day. And if you read the post, you would see that I referred to this as "negative hitting", which is not a bad thing. In fact, it can work pretty well if timed correctly.

 

Two things here. First, since you don't know me, I have to provide some background to the situation (in this case, it sounded like I was bragging, but that's because I'm trying to say what I feel is good about me - I'm not gonna start saying negative things all the time). Second, I said in my post that this is what people have SAID to me. I'm not trying to brag (though it could have come accross that way), as I had already mentioned. Maybe I didn't make that part clear enough? In fact, in some of my previous posts, I have written negative qualities about myself, so I don't always brag. I don't sugarcoat anything here - I write what I think is real, so I get real answers. And remember, no one is perfect - everyone obviously has flaws.

 

Now I know you probably skimmed the entire post. If you read the post, you will see that I am not really "such a smart person." I mentioned that people appear to think that of me sometimes, not that I actually am "so smart." I never said that I was.

 

I know how I responded is exactly "how you view me." But you can't just go onto a board and start criticizing people and pretty much calling them a bad person. I don't think you wrote one positive thing in this entire post - constructive criticism is positive at heart - this sounded like pure hatred. I get pretty mad when people THAT DON'T KNOW ME start telling me I should rot in hell or whatever. You can't start belittling me if you don't know me - it doesn't work like that.

[cruisin]

Dax -- Chill! will ya? "outer whatever" should have been "other whatever." No, I'm not calling you Satan and criticism is what you're asking for, isn't it? or do you just want people to come in here and say you're ok, all the others must be nuts?! Yes, you do come accross as bragging. You know most people say things using others' quotes when they actually want to say it themselves, a kind of false modesty. If that is NOT the case, then good, fine.

 

Like I said and I thought I made clear, this is the IMPRESSION I get from you. I wasn't saying you ARE a certain way. Exactly, how could I possibly know that? What I'm saying is, if I get a certain impression, others may be getting that impression too. Correct the impression, not correct you. It's all about presentation.

 

And, for you to think that I would take the time to write a response to your question out of "pure hatred" is ludicrous!! It's so pathetic that you think that someone would care enough to talk to you if they hated you. For you to be seeing things in such a strange light is scary. Why are you so mistakenly on the defensive, so much so that it seems to be an offensive. Chill, kiddo, no one's belittling you.

 

That's good you don't go around dissing people. I'm glad to hear that. And if everything IS fine with you, then like fairie said, maybe it's just a matter of time. Maybe the chicks around you now just are basically all of the same kind and you need to meet some other types that will be on your wavelength. OK?

[DaXMan]

I am looking for criticism, but usually on these boards it's constructive criticism. I don't want people saying I'm perfect and they're all nuts (as u mentioned), but I think your opinion came out the wrong way a bit. I know I got some faults and there are things to improve on as well.

 

I get what you're saying about presentation. On these boards, I usually need to describe more things, so I come off a certain way. At school, where we know the people, it's a bit different. I'll look into it though, although I really try not to brag in school if something good happened(again, there's that difference here w/ the background).

 

OK, I know you didn't write your response out of pure hatred...although it does look that way. I dunno if you read your reply, but it is a little harsh IMO. And I've seen some pretty odd moments on other board where people go to war with each other.

 

I appreciate the advice, I think it was just your delivery that made things sound a bit differently the first time around.

[cruisin]

Okay, Dax, glad we cleared that up. It's very hard to add tone to a message and make sure things come accross in the concerned and caring tone I always mean things. I was considering this a given because I couldn't imagine why anyone would bother to reply if they were NOT concerned and caring. But you say that's not the case a lot of times. So, I will try to be more careful in the future. Still, I think you have to learn to be a bit more thick-skinned, because thin skin is the cause for a WHOLE lot of problems with people. You gotta be like a duck letting the "water" just roll off you. Also "constructive" does not mean pleasant and easy-to-swallow necessarily. You are young. I am not and I think when you get older... lol...you tend to cut to the quick a heck of a lot faster, which probably comes accross as harsh to younger, more delicate ears. Nonetheless, I will gentle down so as not to hurt anyone unintentionally. Hang in there!

[PocoDiablo]

Dax,

 

Hm, well, reading through all this something strikes me as not quite right. I notice you use PU theory & Neg Hits. You're worried about people thinking you are intimidating. Many women seem to react very poorly to you asking them out. You also mention many women don't talk to you when they come up to you and your friends. You mention that you don't flirt as much as your friends.

 

Also, I think you are the first person in about 5 years that I have seen who uses colors for posting comments. Then, finally, you got into it with what someone said about your personality.

 

So I am here thinking to myself "This is odd. There isn't one thing that really stands out, but he's having some problems. What could it be? I must be missing something."

 

Here is what I came up with - is it possible that you come off as defensive?

 

When I was in school people said a lot of the same things about me. And I had almost identical sitautions as you do. People to me I was intimidating and then arrogant. Charming. Here I thought I was a reasonably cool guy.

 

Well, it turns out they were sort of right in some ways. I was defensive because I did not know how to flirt, I did not have very good social skills, and I was unable to ask a woman out to save my life. So, for me, my defensiveness was born out of insecurity and depressions (i.e., why doesn't anyone like me?) and made me mad. So I took it out on other people. For a few years I was actually a misygonist, thinking that it was the WOMEN who were the problem.

 

I needed a lot of work, and I don't quite see that in you. But I do see a little of the anger coming out, and I do see a lack of self control. These two issues were very big for me.

 

I realized that the lack of self control made me rude. Like throwing the lunch bag back at those girls. While I used to see how that could be funny, that is something I would *only* do with guy friends who I knew *really* well. What you did there was rude, disrespectful, and un-gentleman like.

 

The thing that I took some time to learn was that I needed to learn how to become a gentleman. That means you take all your strong traits that you have, and slow them down a little. It means learning manners and how to handle yourself in social situations. To this end, there are a few traits I picked up:

 

Self-Control

Self-Confidence

Challenge

 

Self control means not doing anything boyish - like throwing trash around, saying mean or rude things even when provoked, driving in a safe manner when you have a date with you, avoiding talking about crude or sad topics of conversation, and basically acting like a gentleman. To this end, you may want to pick up a movie with Cary Grant. He is a role model to me, and the more I watch the more I learn. He will still have fun, but - for example - he would have throw the trash away and then flirted with the women, maybe by saying something like "It appears your aim needs some work. Or does it? Most women who would like to talk to me say hello as opposed to throwing rubbish at me." Smile, laugh, introduce yourself and go from there. That helps build rapport.

 

Self-Confidence: I think you've got plenty of that, maybe even a little too much. Think about confidence and how it relates to being egotistical, arrogant, bragging, etc. While confidence is often very attractive to women, if you brag (and I am not saying you are) about your accomplishments, belongings, etc., it gets old. I usually tell guys to ask more questions of other people and say as little about yourself as possible. "The less you talk, the longer you last." For me, this was HUGE. I would say all the wrong things, always at the wrong time, and boy did I look like an idiot.

 

Finally, challenge: I think you're a little TOO much of a challenge. While women appreciate a MAN who does not throw themselves at their feet, you don't want to push them around either. Just like a cat will chase the mouse, but will run if you chase it, you have to play a little hard to get. This is where flirting comes in. It basically means talking to people and not being serious. I think it might be a good thing for you to ask these guys who flirt for some advice, and maybe they can help you understand why they do it and how.

 

Finally, the use of PU theory is great, but using Neg Hits on a woman who is not a 9 or a 10 is going to be VERY damaging to their ego, and will promptly land you in a-hole land. Neg Hits are to be used VERY carefully, as I am sure you know if you have studied the PU sites. I think you are using them in places that are entirely inappropriate. I only use Neg Hits in bars and clubs with chicks who are clearly full of themselves. Using them at school was very rare for me. The most important thing for you to realize about this is that you COULD be getting a reputation around school as an a-hole. If every woman you talk to walks away with a negative feeling, they are going to talk to their friends, who talk to their friends, and so forth. In a school, your reputation can make or break you.

 

So, bottom line? I think you need to tone things down a little. It seems like you have a lot of passion, a lot of energy, and you're a bright guy. The problem is all those smarts can make a guy "dumb" when it comes to just relaxing and being a normal guy. So relax a little. Have some fun with people, and make them laugh. Watch their reactions very carefully. Do they stick around when you talk to them? No? Then what you said was probably rude or disrespectful in some way. Figure out how and then don't do that again. You are making mistakes but you are not learning your lessons, which is possibly why you are stuck right now.

 

You may also want to check out this site, as I think you could use it:

 

link removed

[ocrob]

Hi Dax,

 

I did read your post and your response and you sound like an intelligent guy. I am wondering if you feel people perceive you in a way that they really don't or you are uncomfortable with people looking up to you. In high school I was very popular, but very uncomfortable with it. I knew that a lot of girls liked me and it made me uncomfortable. Looking back, I probably had a lot of opportunities, but I was either too shy or thought too highly of myself. Maybe you need to stop thinking about how people perceive you and let them get to know you. For a very long time I thought I was such a nice and great guy. I thought this just because I was honest and loyal. Well, if you don't let people get to know you, then who you are really does not matter. Stop worrying about the person that you are and just go out of your way to meet people. Once you stop worrying about others perceptions of you, then you just are yourself. For so many years I felt watched and I pulled away. Now I just don't worry about it and I treat people the way I want to be treated and some respond well and others don't. Sometimes we think people are noticing us or thinking about us more than they actually are. I guarantee that weather a female thinks you are intimidating or smart or too perfect, once you don't give them any attention then they don't think of you at all. But, if you smile and say hello, then they will be thinking of you and thinking you are a good guy. It is ok to be a nice guy as long as you are not a doormat.

[DaXMan]

Thanks for the advice. I've been off the site for a couple days due to HW (my dad still forces me to do stuff although I'm already accepted into my first college choice), not feeling real well over the weekend, etc.

 

But there was one point that really made me think:

 

is it possible that you come off as defensive?

 

Interesting. I think you may have a point. At school, people seem to always have something to say to me - sometimes it's criticizing my morning announcements, which I've done for three years just so their voice gets heard, or even if I get something wrong in a particular class.

 

I thought about your quote and you may be right. I realized the first time, I'll ignore it/laugh it off or whatever. After the 2nd or 3rd time though, I start to get a little ticked off because usually they're just trying to be annoying. That's when I'll become defensive. When it's really stupid things people say to me in front of a lot of people (**some moron asks who I'm asking to prom right in front of a few hotties a short while ago), my ticker becomes shorter. I used to say absolutely nothing when this sort of stuff happened. But then, some "anger" started to seep out and that's why I become defensive. One common example is how students critique my announcements each day...I can guarantee none of them can do it if I made them do it cold for one day (there's a lot more than just reading cards...trust me).

 

It's frustrating. When someone says something like this when no one else is around, I'll make up some joke. But when it seems like someone does it just to get attention in front of a lot of people and they have no clue about what they're saying, I get frustrated.

 

**This fat moron, as I mentioned before, only started acting this way when I "destroyed" him in a debate in one of my classes. I was presenting something, he thought he had a question to disprove my thesis (he bragged about it too right before I replied), but I rattled off many facts and details, and pretty much said he was wrong (not in a mean way, but I was presenting my point). He may not have cared, but it may have been humiliating for him a little in the class.

[PocoDiablo]

Glad to have helped. Now the trick is dealing with it, huh? I think maybe it might help to just lighten up, take things less seriously, and stay away from people who annoy you. Otherwise, you may just want to tell them straight out that they are being rude.

 

Remember, if people are idiots to you, maybe it's time you hang out with smarter folks. I'd just walk away from anyone rude at this point in my life. I don't have time to put up with their petty BS.

[DaXMan]

I quoted what I said here on my first post, because I just realized this exact thing is occurring with the last girl I had asked out (I color-code so it's easier to break down if you're analyzing btw).

 

Around the start of November, I had asked this chick out...or at least tried to (keep reading to see what happened with this). She definitely showed "signs" of interest, some of which seemed obvious, so I felt pretty good. When I did ask her out though, she ran away. I didn't even get a yes or a no - she mumbled "uhh, i have to see" and went to her car rather quickly. I felt I asked her out using the wording I wanted, which was fine, but for w/e reason, she couldn't just say no.

 

Before I asked her out, we had talked a bit, but not really a ton. We share one class together, and we did talk a decent amount in there. But after I asked her out, NOTHING. I waited 2-3 days for the awkwardness to drift away (I'm fine after that), then started talking to her again like normal. But I began to realize she wasn't talking as much to me as before.

 

One month later (now)...

 

Now this girl, while being a "nice, safer girl", seems to be able to talk to a lot of people easily and not really in a flirty sense. So, you figure after a month and a half since I asked her out, all the awkwardness would be gone on her end, right? Nope. She still doesn't talk to me much, and I have tried starting conversations. There are me and two other guys she usually talks to. She asks them what they're doing after school one day, but not me (she knows them a little more, but I was right there too). She tends to reply to anything I say to her with one or two words as well, if that. In fact, the day before winter break (yesterday), I asked what she's doing over break, just to have a short conversation with 5 minutes left in class (I don't "like" her anymore btw) and we were all waiting by the door. She doesn't even say anything - shurgs her shoulders and mumbles that she doesn't know - looking the other way as well.

 

So I dunno what this last example's all about. I have talked to her, but ever since I had asked her out, she doesn't talk to me. I still treat her the same way, still try talking to her, etc. She's a sociable person who enjoys talking to people, but obviously, I must not be worth talking to at all, in her eyes.

[ShySoul]

DaXMan

 

People are crazy. Especially at your age. Sometimes it is virtually impossible to figure out what they are thinking. And a lot the time it doesn't do anything to know. It isn't that you aren't worthy of talking to her, its some problem that she has. You've tried to be nice, you've talked like a friend, haven't given her reason to be uneasy. So its not you.

 

I think your issue is the same I've always tried to say to you. You think and worry about things to much. You keep worrying about what is wrong with you. You obsess over the issue, picking out every little thing. Lol... you even color code your posts to address every minute point. You are so concerned about doing something right or wrong that it is probably coming out in your talks with others. And people probably feel odd and don't know how to respond.

 

I honestly think what you need is to stop thinking about girls (well, as much as a teenage guy can be expected to do so ). Put all of that energy into something else. Once you have another outlet for your energy and frustrations, maybe you will be more confident, less concerned, and things will start to happen to you.

[DaXMan]

I honestly think what you need is to stop thinking about girls (well, as much as a teenage guy can be expected to do so ). Put all of that energy into something else. Once you have another outlet for your energy and frustrations, maybe you will be more confident, less concerned, and things will start to happen to you.

 

I agree with what you're trying to say here, but once I get back into school after the break, I got just over 5 months till Senior Prom. I gotta find a chick to go with, so I gotta stay focused on them, at least a little bit right now.

[ShySoul]

Your enthusiasm is great. Really, I love it. And nice to see a guy worried, cause the stereotype is that its always the girl wanting the prom to be right. But its still 5 months. Most people aren't planning the prom yet and there is lots of time still. Take it easy.

[Lily04]

haha, I think it's cute. I remember some guy asked me to the semi-formal dance (in November if I remember correctly?) back in high school, who I maybe talked with once before in my life. I said yes at first because I knew he was really anxious to ask me out and it took a lot of guts, and I felt bad for saying no... but then I talked with him the next day and told him I changed my mind because I didn't really feel comfortable going with him since I didn't really know him, and hoped he understood... he then asked if I'd consider going with him to the senior prom (in June) and I was like "woah... that's lightyears away buddy, what's the rush?"

 

But to the OP -- you sound like a mature guy, and I agree with the first person's comment that you're probably not meeting the right girls... I was like that in high school. I actually didn't date anyone in high school, even though there were guys who were interested and tried to ask me out but were intimidated as well. Probably also because I just didn't flirt with them or show interest... so they'd be wrapping their arm around me and trying to be nice, and being the socially clueless person I was, I was like "uh yeah, that's nice. Well I have to go study now, see ya!" That must've ruined a guy's ego. But oh well. In college, the dating scene is usually much better anyway.

 

Don't force yourself to ask out girls who you're not really interested in. Keep your standards if you want. And I agree with the others that you shouldn't care what people think about you so much, just be CONFIDENT in yourself. That's most important. And you do seem a bit defensive, so just work on that, and I'm sure you'll be happier and successful with dating/flirting and just general interactions with people.

 

Good luck,

 

Lily