Relationship off to a great start then she goes back to her ex-?(Long)

[RescueDiver]

When you get back Shy you're probably going to have fun reading the updates I'm going to leave. All I can say man is learn from my mistakes, there was a heck of a lot I wished I knew ten years ago. Then again, I'm not sure that would have changed many of my decisions at the time. I'm kind of a sap in that if I have a choice between what my brain tells me to do and what my heart says... I usually go with my heart.

 

Anyway, I talked to Jennifer yet again last night before she went to bed. That's something that hasn't happened in quite a while. Both conversations turned sexual all of the sudden (she started it). I was thinking why the heck are you starting this now? (I didn't say that of course). That and she using the (hug) emoticon again, another thing she hasn't done since her "decision". I guess I'll have to wait and see if this turns into a cycle of her drawing closer and backing off again. I think there was another guy posting in a different thread that his ex was doing the same thing. The last time this happened my ex at the time waffled back and forth between me and her ex for the better part of two months and then pushed me out for the most part. Then a few months after that she realized that he wasn't going to change.

 

I'd like to think that this is happening of course because maybe like you said that things aren't going well with Brad. When you get back I'd like to hear more about the situation you were in and how that panned out.

[RescueDiver]

Well Shy, huge update here. A lot has come out in the past few days. Basically things started a week ago (which I've already touched on) but they really picked up speed Tuesday when I went to a speed dating event. Well, Jennifer seemed a little jealous about it so we talked about it and then got to talking about other things. Well anytime she shows up on her web cam I tell her how beautiful she is. So, she starts teasing me about how I always compliment her over IM but never did in person. So that led into my trying to explain in a very convoluted mannter why that was. Basically I tried to explain it with out going into "feelings" and stuff. Well, later that night I said in an e-mail that part of it was because I didn't want her to know how much I already liked her. The next morning she talked to me before she started work and told me that I was okay with telling her stuff and that I wasn't going to scare her off or make her mad or get myself in trouble. All three were things I expressed concern about in the e-mail I sent her. So... basically I was tired of her not having the whole picture as far as why I did some of the things I did (or didn't do certain things) when we were dating. So, I launched into an enormous e-mail which took most of the morning and part of the afternoon to write. I pretty much laid everything out there. Pretty much I went through from the day we met up to the day she made her "decision" and just told her what my thoughts were at every point, where I started to develop feelings for her and more or less how deep those feelings got. Well, about an hour later I got an e-mail back from her saying that she didn't really know how to respond and that we would chat when we got home. Since I was already nervous about sending the e-mail I pretty much assumed that I was going to get told off. Well, I wrote her back and said that I felt like a kid that had just been told "wait until your father gets home". She then wrote back and said that she wasn't mad and that I had nothing to worry about. She then came on messenger a short while later (while still at work) and well, to make a long story short she thanked me for the e-mail and said that it had left her speechless. Basically she went through it... well, not quite line by line, but she stopped at the important parts and shared her thoughts and feelings. So that led to a couple other e-mails from me that had similar effects. Basically it's a good news bad news situation because the good news is that she still has some pretty deep feelings for me from what I can tell. The bad news is that she is still with Brad. But she said she thinks her boss (who knows both her and Brad) might be rooting for me.

 

The nice thing about all of this is that it put to rest a major regret that I'd had. That was that Jennifer never got a chance to hear how I felt about her. That and she never got a chance to see my sensitive and romantic side. Well, now she's seen it and says she likes it a lot. So maybe that'll be worth something down the road. Still, like I told her in my most recent e-mail I'm still not waiting for her, but I'm not looking either... I'm just taking things one day at a time.

 

P.S. I know there are some NC proponents out there just waiting to pounce on this thread with an "I told you so." don't worry, you'll probably get your chance.

[ShySoul]

Figures, I go away for a week and miss all the good stuff.

 

As you get older you learn things about yourself and see that you didn't know as much as you thought you did when you were younger. Of course some people, like us, are ahead of the curve. But we still make mistakes. As long as you learn from them. My policy is to not regret or wish I could change something I did in the past, every action has helped me become the person I am today and I'm pretty happy with that. And then there is the whole idea of if something had been different in the past, that could alter the timeline in inconceivable ways and who knows what I would be like now. But don't worry about that.... its just the sci-fi geek in me coming out again.

 

Going with your heart is good I think. I've always been one for being logical and rational, but in a lot of cases you just need to go with the flow.

 

My situation has a lot of similarities to yours. Her ex wanted back with her right around the time we started liking each other. So for a month she tried to hear him out while I was like you and was trying to be supportive. She didn't know what to decide. But finally she realized that he wasn't going to change and gave up on him. Unfortunately she was still nervous about getting serious and wanted to only be friends with me. It hurt, but I went ahead with it. She talked to other guys, I even talked to other girls. But in my heart I always knew I wanted her. And she would get jealous of those girls. We would still talk and flirt and at times it was obvious we both still wanted to be together. Finally I just told her how I was really feeling. She was surprised and unsure. Took her more time to sort out feelings, but eventually we ended up spending a great weekend together. She even said she loved me.

 

Of course, with my luck it didn't work out and we did go back to friends. But like you I sent her a long letter explaining everything. I explained why it was hard for me to say certain things in person. I explained how I felt, how much I cared for her, and how much some things she did hurt me. I admitted that I could have done things different. It was long but it was from the heart. She was just as touched as your girl. She called me and went through most of what I wrote and apologized for a whole lot of things, agreeing with me on pretty much everything. Very surprising.

 

I don't think things worked out because my girl has a lot of issues she doesn't seem ready to face. I've tried to be there and I always will be. But she has to work through things herself. All I can do is try and leave the door open. Hopefully, she'll see that one day.

 

In your case, she still has to work things out for herself as well. She knows exactly how you feel, which was good to get off your chest. No matter what, know you can say you tried and gave it your all. You won't second guess yourself as much and wonder what would have happened if you opened up and said more. She likes you too, but its going to take time before she decides to follow her heart or not with you. The wait is frustrating, isn't it? It's also kind of powerless, knowing that its all up in the air and could change one way or the other at any time. But you've done the right thing. If things don't work out, it won't be your fault or lack of trying. Things are on her shoulders, you just need to help her feel relaxed and not pressured.

[RescueDiver]

Yeah, the waiting is frustrating, but what's even more frustrating is not knowing if I'm just wasting time or not. Jennifer has actually been a lot more open with her thoughts and feelings lately so I've been learning a lot about how she feels. We spent pretty much all evening yesterday chatting on IM. I wrote her a nice romantic poem yesterday morning. Actually I wasn't sure if the time was right for her to read it because there was some pretty "deep" stuff in there... but she loved it. Tonight she was telling me that I make her think about "this unreal potential with me" so we both see it and feel it... she's just having trouble leaving her comfort zone. I mean I can understand not wanting to leave something that's comfortable and let's face it... having to start over all the time sucks too. I guess she also feels that she's gotten herself into some pretty crappy relationships so she doesn't trust her own intuition anymore. But at least she admits that with me it all seems to make sense. So, if she can just get enough of a push from herself, or someone she knows... maybe she'll get over the hill that separates us.

[gesssho0o]

rescuediver, i've been following your thread... any updates? =) i'm on tenterhooks

[RescueDiver]

Well, yeah actually... a lot has happened in the past week or so. Well, I mean she's still with the other guy but there is an undeniable attraction between us. It's always been there, but ever since two weeks ago when I told her how I really felt (and she reciprocated for the most part) we've been growing progressively closer. Now, whether it will be enough to prompt her to action instead of just thinking about it... we'll have to wait and see. We've been talking more and more lately and it seems that even though it's dangerous from an emotional standpoint for me to do what I'm doing... the more I invest myself emotionally, it seems the more she reciprocates. She says she finds herself wanting to spend every free moment with me. So when she has a few spare moments she'll jump on IM to chat for a little bit.

 

A couple of days ago we really delved into the reality of the situation and that was a very depressing IM conversation. Basically because it dredged up a lot of the hurt and pain for me that I felt a month ago. The next morning I was miserable because I wondered if I had any reason to believe she would choose any differently now. I wrote Jennifer an e-mail pretty much just saying I was having a rough morning (Tuesday) and could use a few words of kindness. Well, turns out Jennifer was super busy... but much to my surprise she called me on her lunch break to see how I was doing. Well, that pretty much turned my mood right around. I had kinda felt bad about being needy like that... but she didn't seem to mind. In fact she said that once she got back to work she didn't have much to do so we ended up chatting for the rest of the afternoon. Mostly about a shared fantasy of going to Fiji together. We were going to talk more that night but unfortunately her furnace broke so she had to go spend the night with the other guy. Yesterday though I was talking about how much I was going to miss her over New Years (especially at midnight). Well, she said she was going to miss me too... and that she had really thought about breaking her plans to spend New Years with me. Well, later on that led into her also saying that she'd also thought about what it would be like to call me up and say "yeah, so how soon can you be here." I asked her if she thought that could happen and she said "yeah, I think it could." This morning we got into a conversation about what it would be like if we did see each other again. She basically said she'd "jump on me". So I can tell we both really want to see each other again and it would be a wonderful moment for the both of us. Is all of this will be enough to push her past whatever is holding her back? I hope so, but only time will tell. She read off her horoscope yesterday and it was uncanny. It basically said that now was the time to either make bold romantic steps or make commitments. After that she said "what did I say about the one that makes sense?" That person of course is me. SO it seems like all the signs are there for her... hopefully she'll take action on them.

[stolenshadow]

Hello, reading the update you give I feel I must say something about it.

 

Okay, so she is great, there's chemistry, she likes you and she flirts with you, it looks good, until you realize she still has a relationship with another guy and for every time she shows interest in you she also shows she doesn't want anything more than support from you.

 

It's concerning that this is starting to affect you, how wouldn't it?, she gets you up and then lets you fall with the most terrible of excuses, she has you on a competition against an abusive ex, and struggles to spend time with you knowing she'll miss it with him.

 

How much more do you want this to go on?, it's not up to her, she's getting answers from her horoscope, do you really need this?, is she your only chance to experience love?, what price are you willing to pay to feel that you are liked by her more than a few times a week?.

 

From previous posts I think you have no problems having a nice long lasting relationship with a nice girl, why do you want to give up that for this one?.

I think you shouldn't settle for the role of "great guy who's too good for me but will save me anyway", it can be tempting, but you can end up not only hurt but very messed up.

[RayKay]

She read off her horoscope yesterday and it was uncanny. It basically said that now was the time to either make bold romantic steps or make commitments. After that she said "what did I say about the one that makes sense?"

 

 

She says that, she says a lot of things, but not once has she said "let's work on this and get back together"...has she? What about her actions? She tells you all this, yet still is with this other guy? Hmmm.

 

And until she says that, all this is useless. Just because you make "sense", does not mean she sees you as the one. I know plenty of people whom have broken things off (a couple ex's of mine included!) with people that "made sense" but there was something not there.

 

I know right now the hope is there, that every little thing seems like a sign of sorts, that her calling you and talking must mean there is something there. Well of course there are feelings. Even when you break something off, there are feelings. But you are letting her have her cake and eat it too. You are always there for her, how is that allowing her to think about things without you? She KNOWS you are there if she changes her mind on a whim. She has all the time in the world, she can date other people, and you will still be there. What would it take for you to realize that the best thing to do is move forward? Because that is what you need to do. Trust me, the chances are better of her realizing what she lost if you DO, and if she chooses NOT to, you will be in SUCH a better place yourself....really, either way.

[RescueDiver]

All very valid responses, and I'm not going to debate anyone as to whether what I'm doing is a "smart" thing to do because I've already accepted the fact that it's not and I'm accepting that I may very well get hurt really bad. However, that is an outcome I can live with. Been through it before and survived it. On the other hand I don't think I would be able to live with shutting her out and then finding out later that it could've worked out.

 

Okay, so she is great, there's chemistry, she likes you and she flirts with you, it looks good, until you realize she still has a relationship with another guy and for every time she shows interest in you she also shows she doesn't want anything more than support from you.

 

Well, the thing is that she does want more than support. There is a large part of her that wants to explore what she and I could be. Now, yes, the flip side of that is that obviously enough of her still wants to be with the other guy. Which is why she's still with him.

 

It's concerning that this is starting to affect you, how wouldn't it?, she gets you up and then lets you fall with the most terrible of excuses, she has you on a competition against an abusive ex, and struggles to spend time with you knowing she'll miss it with him.

 

She really hasn't built me up and let me fall yet... well, since this whole business got icky. Since we've started getting closer she really hasn't gotten my hopes up and then sent me sailing back down into the ground. As far as her wanting to spend time with me... well, what does that say I guess... when Brad goes to bed early and she comes to talk to me, just to say she misses me? What does that say? Yes I know this all gets into an emotional affair which it can be argued is just as bad as a sexual affair.

 

How much more do you want this to go on?, it's not up to her, she's getting answers from her horoscope, do you really need this?, is she your only chance to experience love?, what price are you willing to pay to feel that you are liked by her more than a few times a week?.

 

How much more do I want it to go on? Well, until I lose patience. I do have a finite amount of patience with this. If she starts doing things like pulling me in then pushing me away... that's going to burn through that a lot faster, but because we've been steadily growing closer... I'm going to wait a bit longer. As long as that general direction is maintained I will probably hold out... even if it's another month or two. Beyond that, I think that my patience will be wearing thin. Is she my only chance to experience love? Probably not, but the issue is that it is extremely hard to find someone that likes you as much as you like them and vice-versa. Someone you have a tremendous amount in common with. Now, if I run into someone like that and she is still waffling around... yeah, I'm going to look into the newcomer but as it stands right now, connections like that don't just fall out of the sky on a daily basis and trying to "force it" by hanging out in bars, speed dating, etc... isn't working either. So, basically unless I'm turning down eligible interesting people... I don't think I'm hurting myself too much by hanging around for a bit.

 

From previous posts I think you have no problems having a nice long lasting relationship with a nice girl, why do you want to give up that for this one?.

I think you shouldn't settle for the role of "great guy who's too good for me but will save me anyway", it can be tempting, but you can end up not only hurt but very messed up.

 

 

She says that, she says a lot of things, but not once has she said "let's work on this and get back together"...has she? What about her actions? She tells you all this, yet still is with this other guy? Hmmm.

 

And I won't hear her say "let's work on this" because there were no problems to work on. Yes, actions speak louder than words... but there are also a lot of actions that are speaking pretty loudly right now... as far as the amount of time we spend talking continuing to increase.

 

And until she says that, all this is useless. Just because you make "sense", does not mean she sees you as the one. I know plenty of people whom have broken things off (a couple ex's of mine included!) with people that "made sense" but there was something not there.

 

I know right now the hope is there, that every little thing seems like a sign of sorts, that her calling you and talking must mean there is something there. Well of course there are feelings. Even when you break something off, there are feelings. But you are letting her have her cake and eat it too. You are always there for her, how is that allowing her to think about things without you? She KNOWS you are there if she changes her mind on a whim. She has all the time in the world, she can date other people, and you will still be there. What would it take for you to realize that the best thing to do is move forward? Because that is what you need to do. Trust me, the chances are better of her realizing what she lost if you DO, and if she chooses NOT to, you will be in SUCH a better place yourself....really, either way.

 

 

The thing is that back when I sent her those e-mails... I really wasn't expecting her to respond the way she did. I full on expected a response like "you need to get over me, this isn't helping... etc..." Also, I didn't expect us to continue to grow closer. Now, if things begin to stagnate... or she starts to back off... then I will have to re-evaluate what I'm doing. The whole business of pushing someone away to get them back is silly.

 

There is one thing I think I need to point out and that is that everyone has to remember that Jennifer isn't exactly happy about this either. She feels really bad for what happened and I think in a lot of ways regrets that she didn't find a lot of this out sooner. The trouble is there simply wasn't time. We have had the conversation many times that there have been a couple of places where if we had turned left instead of right things probably would have gone differently. Now, those weren't even mistakes... they were just things like if I could have shown up at the wine-party she had. On the other hand those things may not have mattered, we'll never know. However, that tells me, and I think it's starting to occur to her that maybe she made a rash decision. At the time she had to weigh things like time and feelings she had already invested into one guy, along with knowing that person's strengths and faults already. At the time she saw me as a nice guy on the surface, but she really hadn't known me long enough to know if what she was seeing was me, or just a front. Also, neither one of us were really admitting our true feelings for the other. So once that e-mail got sent and I clued her in, and she clued me in it kinda got the ball rolling. Also she later found out that the extent of her own feelings towards me was much deeper than she had initially thought. Hence finding out that after not talking to me for a couple of weeks, she realized that it was really hard on her and she missed me.

 

Now that it's been what, a month and she's gotten to know me much better she is beginning to see that I am who I am and obviously haven't been putting up a front. Now, will that pull be strong enough to prompt her to do something about it? I don't know. She has started to complain about Brad finally, and I am aware of the folly of drawing any particular conclusions from that because for every fault he has he must have something balancing it out otherwise she wouldn't be there. However... now having me as a comparison may be making her have second thoughts about what she has been putting up with and what she may be missing out on.

 

The point with the horoscope wasn't whether she should or shouldn't listen to it. The only reason she pointed it out to me is that it was coincidental with what she was going through. Neither one of us take much stock in those things but when they ring home it's fun to share them. I think also her point in sharing that with me was to tell me in a semi-subtle way that she had a thought-process going on basically. That she was thinking about what she had, what she didn't, what she wanted, and what she was missing. Yes, I know I can sit here and try to draw conclusions all day and at the end still not really know what's going on. However the nice thing is that usually I can ask Jennifer about it and get an honest answer.

 

So, like I said before, I'm not debating the sense of what I'm doing, but it's what I feel I need to do right now.

[stolenshadow]

RescueDiver, I could make a list in reply of your also valid points of view but I think the point is not if we agree, there are facts out there, you are the one who decides what you want or even what you don't want to see.

 

All I want to say is you sound like a nice and intelligent guy, you know it and that's why you are putting everything in making things with this girl work, but just remember there's always more than one option with this, and not everything has to happen when we wish for it.

 

I'll be hoping things turn out okay for you.

[RescueDiver]

RescueDiver, I could make a list in reply of your also valid points of view but I think the point is not if we agree, there are facts out there, you are the one who decides what you want or even what you don't want to see.

 

All I want to say is you sound like a nice and intelligent guy, you know it and that's why you are putting everything in making things with this girl work, but just remember there's always more than one option with this, and not everything has to happen when we wish for it.

 

I'll be hoping things turn out okay for you.

 

Thanks for the words of support Stolenshadow. To be honest, I never thought I would be letting myself into this situation again especially what happened with my last girlfriend and having had this happen a couple of other times before. All I can say is that this one is going a lot differently then any of those went so I guess I'm hoping it turns out differently. I know there are other options and it's not like I am set in this course forever. It's kind of a day-by-day thing. Like I said, if she starts to pull back... or if we go a long time and it doesn't seem like anything is happening it's going to wear down my patience. You are right I am putting everthing into this. It's that aspect of my personality that makes me a great Firefighter/EMT but, also tends to get me walked on in the relationship world. Because I don't give up even in the face of insurmountable odds. Whether the wait, time, effort, tears, etc... will be worth it in the end... who knows. I'm sure as soon as Jennifer knows one way or another she's going to tell me. I know she doesn't want to see me suffer any more than necessary, and this is also very hard on her. She does want to be with me... that is clear. What's not clear is what is holding her back.

[Msnak]

Rescue--

 

You sound like a classy guy, she obviously isn't ready for you, hate to say it. Sometimes people don't realize when they have gold in their reach.

 

Perhaps you can maintain a place in her life by just being there as a friend. I hope she doesn't hurt you or herself. But going back to deadbeat Brad is a bad move on her part.

 

She might be scared off by your good behavior and kind treatment. Pity.

 

In the meantime, maybe return to link removed and try, try again?

 

But only when you're emotionally ready. I dated online and rebounded with two different guys where I had given them the idea that I was over my ex, (I was in denial) and later had to end things with two nice guys (who weren't right for me) because I don't believe in misleading men.

 

So, try and distract yourself a bit, learn a new hobby, language, sport, etc.

 

As for being a firefighter, I have a friend who works at a station and she says many guys are single or get "so close" to a relationship and the woman fears she'll somehow have to always worry about the fireman's safety. Sure, that's feasible, but I'll bet if you looked at statistics to see how many people actually get hurt or how often, it's mentally blown out of proportion. Sure, you have a dangerous job, but you're also a hero!

[Mjane]

Rescue,

You sound like a really great guy. You aren't going to like what I say, but here it is:

You don't want this girl, you just don't know it yet.

This is the type of girl that is addicted to drama. She probably likes to "rescue" guys, just like it seems you might like "rescuing" girls.

Even if you and she hook up, one of these guys will poke his head back into the picture and this rollercoaster will start all over again.

This woman didn't deal with her failed marriage before jumping into a relationship with a guy who is obviously a headcase. And then after it's over with him she's on link removed. This woman doesn't deal with her "issues." My rule is not to date anyone who is separated or hasn't been divorced for at least a year. This woman wasn't even divorced when you started dating her. She's got so much baggage she could open a luggage store.

The reason you can't see any of this is because you have "chemistry" and are compatible with this girl.

But guess what? While those two elements are wonderful and hard to find, sometimes you have to let go to save yourself.

You've only got two or three months invested here... that's nothing in the big scheme of things. And as soon as you realize there is a universe of healthy women out of there looking for a great guy like you, the sooner you'll realize that this girl is not "healthy" and needs to fix herself in her own time before she's available to have a healthy, loving relationship.

In order to recover, I say cut off all contact. Don't return phone calls or emails. You need to NC to distance yourself and recover.

[RescueDiver]

A very valid point Mjane and you're probably right. I don't think I'm the sort that goes on the rescue missions you're talking about. Thinking back... there have been a couple of relationships that might be construed like that. But it's not something I could say I look for (consciously or unconsciously). I think I can also say that Jennifer is not a drama queen... I've been with them before so I'm pretty good at seeing those. Not that would make me necessarily avoid them, but I can usually see them for what they are. I think you are right in that she may like to "rescue" guys. That one I can see myself and obviously since I don't need to be rescued... well... other than from single life... maybe that's part of the problem.

 

I don't know that I've ever met anyone that was devoid of "issues". Even my female friends that I've had for 10+ years still have their issues. They deal with one finally and a new one crops up. So it becomes more of a search not for someone that doesn't have any issues... but one where they have issues you think you can deal with. You know, it would be nice to see if people actually dealt with stuff before they got into new relationships, but I just don't see it. Most of the time the most I see people out of a relationship before their next one starts is 2 to 3 months. Now, having said that, Jennifer was out of a relationship for about 6 months between when she and Brad broke up and when she and I started dating. On paper that looked to me like it was long enough. I don't think there is anything magical about the "one year" rule that I hear people advocate. It's whatever is right for that person. I know you know that, so I'm not debating that with you.

 

If we hook up again, yes, Brad could potentially make a lot of trouble for me and that is something that I am aware of and I don't take lightly. Now, as far as I know all the other guys (including her ex-husband) have been "banished" and are non-issues now. However, even if Brad doesn't cause problems Jennifer is still haunted by the loss of her first fiance' which happened almost 5 years ago. That, is something I saw from the first time I met her. I could tell she hasn't let go of him yet.

 

Your advice is not lost on me Mjane... so thank you. The combination of chemistry and compatibility being the rare combination they are... make it virtually impoosible for me to turn my back on them.

 

Msnak,

Yeah the "too nice" thing has been a recurring issue with me and one of my current friends (an ex-girlfriend) said that it freaks women out because I look too good to be true. Actually Jennifer and I had a short discussion about that too and she admitted that it was kinda freaky. The match thing won't happen for a while because if I go on there right now I know it's not going to be for the right reasons. I just need to see where this goes before I'll be ready to give anyone else a fair shake because if she's sitting there in the back of my mind... it's just going to be a distraction.

 

Well firefighting is a dangerous job and people do get hurt and killed, but it's usually not as frequent as it sounds. Even so Jen's problem primairly is that she's had a lot of people close to her die tragically (so I'm not talking about grandparents dying of old age). So, when we first looked at a dating she said "no" right away because obviously the thought of potentially losing me popped into her head. Now, once we started chatting and talking on the phone when I was at the station and stuff and she learned more about the job and how it really wasn't as "lethal" as all the hollywood hype (she'd seen Ladder 49 recently so that didn't help my case any)... she started to be more okay with it.

 

I really can't say that I feel I'm an undesireable "catch" so to speak... I think I mentioned further up that I recently tried speed dating. Personally I'm not really sold on the speed dating thing because it seems a little... superficial. You really don't get enough time to get a feel for the person's personality so it becomes more of a "look at the goods and read off the resume" kinda thing and that's the extent of it. Under just those circumstances 6 out of the 9 women that were there picked me as someone they wanted to go on date with. Unfortunately the only woman that I chose as interesting was one of the three that gave me the thumbs down. So therein lies the problem I've been dealing with for the past 13+ years. Finding someone where there's both chemistry and compatibility and they feel the same way. So, having only found that... maybe one other time (and that time it wasn't to this extent) makes it hard to walk away from as I already said.

[Msnak]

Rescue:

 

I completely understand what you were saying when you said finding chemistry and giving it a try is something you have to do. I agree. I say, try it until you just can't anymore! But that's just based on the near-misses I've seen in my experiences and with friends & family. I have an aunt dating a man she's known since high school, and she's 60. They were brought back together because of the undying connection between them. It gives me hope, and at the same time, scares me because look at the lost years!

 

So, do what you must, just try not to get hurt, jaded or too attached, in case she proves her history and returns to any one but the nice guy. I really want you to win on this, though! She would win a great guy and you would receive your heart's desire.

 

I had a similar situation, but it didn't work out.

 

It's very wise of you to recognize that being on a dating website would be a bad idea for you right now. Wish more guys would realize that!

 

Oh, and yeah, guys and gals alike--we all have our issues to deal with. I have friends who can't be single, and thus, never get to deal with their issues because they're always in a relationship before they have time to figure out what their issues are! And why these issues grow and continue to sabotage relationships.

 

Loved your comments on speed dating. Thanks for the summary, I have a friend 12 years older than me that wants to try it and I don't want to! (Because I always dislike every worthwhile guy at first!)

 

Best of luck to you.

[Mjane]

So therein lies the problem I've been dealing with for the past 13+ years. Finding someone where there's both chemistry and compatibility and they feel the same way. So, having only found that... maybe one other time (and that time it wasn't to this extent) makes it hard to walk away from as I already said.

Rescue,

I don't mean to sound casual, but heck, me, probably like many others here, are all in the same boat. But that doesn't mean I'm going to settle down with someone that isn't good for me.

I keep trying to tell myself that the universe is full of wonderful men and there is a guy out there just for me.

Have faith.

[RescueDiver]

Speed dating was different... I'm glad I did it, but I'm not sure I'd do it again. I guess I'd say at least try it. Part of the problem when I went obviously is that I still had too much interest in Jennifer for anyone to really spark my interest. Well, I shouldn't say that, but the bar was set pretty high.

 

I think it would be really great if Jennifer and I got together finally too. The more we talk the more we find that we have similar outlooks on life, want the same thing as far as family, children, etc... we find more things in common, and I guess find out that there seems to be no end to our compatibility. We already know we have chemistry. Obviously none of that is enough yet to overcome her feelings for her ex and that's somewhat understandable. I think we've all been in relationships where we knew that the other person really wasn't very good for us... but we wouldn't leave... or didn't leave as soon as we should have. That's why I really can't fault her for what happened. I mean sure, back when this all broke... we both had an inkling of what could be... but neither of us really knew how deep those feelings and compatibility really went. Otherwise things might have gone differently. We both know, that there is no future as "just friends" for us and that is obviously why we can't see each other until we can be together.

 

So who knows... this could end tomorrow or it could end months from now. Both she and I are taking this one day at a time pretty much.

[Msnak]

I think we've all been in relationships where we knew that the other person really wasn't very good for us... but we wouldn't leave... or didn't leave as soon as we should have. That's why I really can't fault her for what happened.

Do you know how amazing you sound when you say this? Jennifer doesn't know what a rare man can say such things.

 

So who knows... this could end tomorrow or it could end months from now. Both she and I are taking this one day at a time pretty much.

 

This proves you're entering this relationship, or whatever it is, with both eyes open. As well as your heart. I hope this works out for you.

 

You have to keep us posted!!

[RescueDiver]

Actually, she does know how amazing and rare I am. She tells me so quite frequently actually. This is just as hard on her as it is on me. On my side, I have the frustration of knowing that we would be great for each other... know that I can give her everything she has missed out on in the past, but not really understanding what is holding her back or if it is something that can be overcome. On her side, she knows that I am a great and wonderful guy and she has said that I could "give her a life that she has never known before, one that she thinks others would envy." That is a direct quote from something she told me a couple of weeks ago. But, she is also held to the other guy by her feelings. She admits that if we had made it to this point before Brad had started his stuff... that we would still be together. Unfortunately as I think I may have mentioned there were a few times where we turned left when we should have turned right (my not going to her party was probably the biggest one). So, she is in just as much pain as I am. She also says, that if she had half the strength she had prior to the death of her first fiance', that we wouldn't be having the conversations we are... we would be together.

 

Yes, I am going forth with both eyes open, and a lot of times that is like standing in front of a firing squad without a blindfold. Some would say that being open-hearted about this too is dangerous... that Jennifer could take advantage of me. I don't think so. In fact, I know she wouldn't Actuall, when I said this could end "tomorrow"... it almost did. Last night Brad, showed up earlier than expected at her house for dinner. Well, we were just chatting about her work or something, nothing deep, or emotional or anything like that. Well, I heard later that she basically ended up feeling like she had been caught cheating and some would argue that in a sense she is. We had a long talk before bed last night (at the inception of which I honestly thought it was going to be our last). However, we are still talking, but if those feelings continue... this is likely to unravel pretty fast. Those of you who are spiritual or religious... we both would really appreciate your prayers. While I obviously don't desire Brad and harm... I believe that he really isn't right for her and she just needs the strength to make the right choice and not settle. Even she knows this... but she feels she doesn't have that strength and so here we are... stuck. I will keep everyone posted as best I can and thanks again for the words of support.

[Setter5]

I would agree with the asumption of abusive relationships.

 

According to your story, you did nothing wrong and everything right. You had some great dates and time together. It worked on that level. The chemicals get flowing. It feels like a start.

 

I have been there. The good memories often drown out the rest in these situations.

 

I recently went through the exact same storyline, but my ex and I had a full-blown, healthy relationship for a year and a half before her ex-boyfriend showed up.

 

She called out of the blue to notify me of his interest to tell his feelings to her. She said she needed closure or clarity with the situation. But she did not give an absolute answer. She left it up to me to decide on what I wanted.

 

It made me sick. How could all the progress, the good times, and connection not insulate our relationship. There is no explanation. There will never be one.

 

At this point, regardless is she came back (which she won't), I know now (2 months later) that I could never really trust her.

 

These two months have been gut-wrenching and full of self-analysis for me.

 

But what I learned is that the only thing that is important NOW is the end-result. She is gone. Even if we tried to be friends, what she was-is gone.

 

I know how confusing and painful this is for you. Mostly, it's disappointing.

 

There is a ton of baggage here. Moving on is difficult now that you know more about her. Be her friend if you know that it won't keep you hanging on. If it does, well then, leave. A fresh cut!

 

Take it or leave it.

 

Good luck man! Think about you now.

 

Best,

[Msnak]

There is a ton of baggage here. Moving on is difficult now that you know more about her. Be her friend if you know that it won't keep you hanging on.

 

I agree, the more you know, the harder it is to go. Yet, if you feel there is a chance, you have every right to stick around and see what comes your way. Prayerfully, what your heart desires. I will keep you in my prayers. It sounds like Jennifer is starting to recognize more and more the differences in the lifestyles of her two suitors.

 

Think about you now.

 

I believe you are thinking about you, you've made points that maybe you're wrong to be around her, should possibly move on, but only you know where your heart is.

 

And yes, having your heart open to a person, does mean the possibility of pain. But if you don't take a risk every now and then, you gain nothing.

 

So, perhaps you're thinking of how your life would be with Jennifer, and you're already proving how non-selfish you are, through your words on this site. Your concern for her current and future happiness speak volumes of the type of man you are.

[RescueDiver]

Your perspective is appreciated Setter5. And actually, if this had been a committed relationship... I *probably* wouldn't be handling this the same way I am. The reason being, is that when Brad came back around Jennifer and I really hadn't had the opportunity to get to know one another very well. Each of us had the suspicion that something more was possible... but like she told me in the early days after she called off our 6th and 7th meetings... she didn't really know where I stood as far as her religion (she's Jewish, I'm non-denominational Christian), the future of children, and distance. Plus, she really hadn't had a taste of my romantic nature (because we really just weren't that far yet). So she basically had to choose between the 'enemy' she knows, versus, the 'enemy' she doesn't know. I think probably any one of us would've made the same choice. At least with Brad she knows his idiosyncracies and what to expect. In spite of all the stuff he's probably done to her, they did have a fun and romantic relationship in the beginning. Now, obviously I've only really heard about his screw-ups. I have no doubt he's done sweet things for her, and has his good sides. So, basically she had to look at it that yeah, I'm a nice guy... but she already had 7 months invested in Brad and the major sticking point (the drugs) was dissolved. Now, since that time, she has of course found out that I have no issues with her being Jewish (nor should my family), I've already told her I am fine with her bringing up our children Jewish as well as keeping a Kosher home. Also, the distance issue was settled in that I wasn't expecting her to move to where I live since I only work 2 or 3 days a week (24 hour shifts). Plus she has also gotten a major dose of my romanticism. So that does make things hard on her... well, hard on us both because we both see that we would be very happy together. In fact, we are still growing closer and closer. Thursday night we pretty much spent the entire evening "together" (via telephone and webcam) never running out of things to talk about. I think we talked for... 7 1/2 hours or something like that?

 

Jennifer has said several times, that when she looks at everything... I make the most sense as far as the one she should be with. We're both at the same points in our lives, we both want the same things, we're compatible, we are both very attracted to each other, there's chemistry, we resolve conflicts in ways that we both look for and desire... the list literally goes on and on. In fact I dare say that she really wants to be with me. We're both at point "A" right now and we can see point "C" which is us picking up where we left off. We both want to get there, but we don't know how... point "B" is the mystery. Okay, now I know someone is going to pipe up and say "well, duh, all she has to do is dump Brad!" Well, okay, yeah... but you have to remember... she has feelings for him, and for their relationship. I'm sure they have fun together and she enjoys being with him or this would be a no-brainer. The thing is, that she also feels very protective of him and probably doesn't want to abandon him. She hasn't said this outright, but I kinda get that impression as far as conversations we've had. I know she has a very real fear of being abandoned herself... but I'm fairly certain she isn't too worried about that with me. So, basically it's how do we get from point A to C. If anyone has any magical ideas I'd be happy to pass them along. I don't know if there's a scenario that will allow that to happen or not. I think I've already mentioned that Jennifer has said that if she had half the fortitude she had 5 years ago (prior to her fiance' dying on her) we would be together. Which I imagine means that she wouldn't be afraid to dump Brad. So, basically all I can do is wait and be supportive and hope that either Brad dumps her for some obscure reason (which I can't imagine he will... at least not for a long time), or that her feelings for me can grow to the point to where they supercede her feelings for Brad. Or at least overcome whatever feelings or fears are holding her back. Actually Jennifer just called me a few minutes ago to say "hello" and that she missed me a lot. She was out buying some groceries because apparently Brad got food poisoning at the company Christmas party they went to together last night. She said pretty much the whole evening she was wondering why she wasn't there with me instead.

 

Running out now would be downright foolish. I've pretty much jumped out of the airplane already, so all I can do now is hope my chute opens. If it doesn't... I'm in for a painful landing.

 

Jennifer and I have both been doing a lot of thinking and talking about what our lives would be like together. We really haven't come up with any major hangups (but then who does). The biggest thing is that we both resolve problems the same way (and wished our past partners had)... that way at least when we do get into an argument, there's less likelihood that it'll turn into a relationship damaging fight.

 

I really appreciate your prayers Msnak... more than you probably know. Actually Jennifer and I have been both praying for the same thing... To be shown the path that will bring us together. So the more spiritual help we can get on this, the better for both of us I know. There's nothing I can really do myself to help the situation... so prayers are very helpful, so thank you.

[Msnak]

Well, you've certainly talked about every possible thing in regards to the "big issues" of a relationship. Gender expectations, children, careers, religion, meeting family members...very good. So many people get bogged down in silly, less-important things. I know men who'd left women because they didn't know enough about sports, or were good at their careers. LOL!

 

As for advice about you and Jennifer getting together, that's tough. I wouldn't know what to say other than to be slow, be forgiving, and make decisions only when either of you is as sure as possible.

 

What you're doing with Jennifer--sticking around to see what develops, is what she's doing with Brad. Both of you want to avoid missing out, and that's a very understandable thing.

 

Your analogy about the parachute is a good one. I so dearly want you to land on your feet, safely...with Jennifer there to applaud a stellar landing.

[RescueDiver]

I have a huge update for everyone still following this thread. First I want to thank everyone for their words of support and prayers. It has helped immensely. About two weeks ago Jennifer basically made it known that she did intend on leaving Brad. She had basically resolved during a conversation with her step-mom that while Brad hadn't done anything major wrong... she simply wasn't happy. Well, even though Jennifer had pretty much seen her relationship with Brad as a dying one, she hesitated to break up with him since they work at the same company and she feared harassment and retribution from him. There was some hope that he might be leaving the company for a job elsewhere so she was kinda holding out for that. Well, not too long after that I guess they got into some kind of argument at work and she basically told him that she wasn't happy and was breaking up with him. It wasn't long after that too that she called me up, told me what happened and wanted to come see me. So, last Friday she did. She ended up staying until Sunday morning and saw me off to work and then drove home. The reunion was very overwhelming for both of us. In spite of the distance we both have grown very close to each other in spite of only having contact via telephone/im/webcam. We are now officially "boyfriend and girlfriend" and are very happy and very much in love with each other.

[Msnak]

Wow, thanks for the update. Good to know that she's come to see you for the great guy you seem to be. More importantly, you proved to her that she's wanted and that you're the type of guy who stays in a woman's "corner."

 

It seems it might be hard for her to overcome what other people's perceptions of her, her relationship decisions and her work reputation. But in the end, no one else's opinion or thoughts really matter.

 

May you two find love and happiness together.