Guys/Gals Opinions Please

[saltwatergirl]

Brief history: Together 5 years, engaged, off and on the past year due to troubled past. I caught him in several compromising situations of cheating, no proof or admittance but strong suggestions. He also "disappeared" on 2 different occasions for a couple weeks each time, then back claiming momentary freak out due to personal problems.....I finally decided to 'forgive & forget", and now this recent development:

Please give honest assessments, even if I am in the wrong. Ok here goes:

 

He is in last semester of college to be a teacher ( I currently am). He began student teaching 2 weeks ago. On Tuesday, he called to tell me something "bad" had happened. A student accused him of "yelling profanity at her, threatening language, and sexual references", so the school at which he is student teaching basically said you cant come back & reported it to his university. He was needless to say freaking out. the University said they would have a hearing on Friday with him to determine whether or not to reassign him to another school or expell him from college altogether, thus ending his future after 4 years & lots of $$ and being only a couple months from being done. He denies doing any of it, the student though has a few witnesses. He says they are just doing this because he did "get onto her" for something.....

 

OK so he tells me this, I listen, stunned, and then I randomly ask why he didnt go to work this afternoon....(I had just realized it was his time to be at his afternoon job. He yells at me HOW THE F*** CAN YOU ASK THAT, DIDNT I JUST SAY I HAD TO WAIT ON A PHONE CALL FROM THE UNIVERSITY, WHAT THE H**** DIDNT YOU EVEN LISTEN TO WHAT I WAS SAYING...etc. At this point I hang up. I had to be in a meeting in 5 minutes and he was screaming & cussing. After my meeting 2 hours later, i call back. I say ""I just wanted to see how you were feeling and if you were in any better state of mind now to talk to me"....He then says No and that he thinks it was rude of me to hang up on him. I said (calmly) well, yo were yelling & cussing at me, dont you think that was uncalled for, and he says to me that I am being insensitive to his situation, that he has his whole world caving inand all I care about is how he yelled at me, again begins screaming & cussing at me, and hangs up on me. He tells me before he hangs up that all he cares about right now is his school situation, that nothing else matters right now and I should understand that . I call back all night, no answer. The next night, he calls. This time, I dont answer because I am thinking, its just going to be more fighting and yelling because Im still upset, etc.

 

So the next day, I call him. No answer. I then reach him Friday morning. He is angry that I didnt call him back that night he called. I explain why. He says he cant believe that I am bringing all this "drama " into his life when he is dealing with this whole thing about his future, etc. He hangs up on me after saying "see you are still doing it". I was explaining my reasons........anyway, that evening he calls me. He says to me "You havent proven that you will be there for me when times get difficult. You havent proven that I can count on you to be in my corner and on my side". Then he hangs up on me.

 

I call back and get the voice mail so I leave a message. I say, I've been with you 5 years. Throughout this time, you have never had any money (student), I've only seen you on weekends (schedule), and I have never once left you during all of that. You have disappeared on several occasions but I still forgave you, and I have stood beside you every time something has come up (i.e. forgiven him). I cant believe you would say this to me now. I told him how hurt and devestated I was to hear that. To imagine that he has been made to feel that way, by me, is incredibly painful and I was crying and hurting. I told him all this. I said I cant believe you are leaving me over this now. He calls back that night, says "Im not leaving you, I just called to say that and now Im going to bed Im not feeling well". I say OK and hang up.

PS His meeting Friday was cancelled until Monday.

 

The next morning (saturday) i call and leave a message. I say I was up all night thinking of what he said to me. I said I was a mess, cant sleep, cant stop crying at the thought that he would sit and question my loyalty, my character, the way he did. I said more than that, but that's the jist. I then said I felt it would all be ok, and to please not let this cause you to think you are not a good person (the accusation thing), etc. I did not yell or anything I explained why I was upset at the 1st cussing and 2nd accusing me of not being able to stay during difficult times and his "rethinking the future" due to my actions.

 

He called that night. We talked about his situation, etc. Nothing was said of my message or of what he had said to me (about my loyalty, etc). Sunday we talk again when he gets home from work.

After a while, I ask if he got my messages from Saturday. He says he did. I say well you did not say anything about it all, and Im pretty upset over here.

 

He begins yelling again, telling me again how insensitive I am, how he cant talk about or think about any other thing but this until the meeting (was moved to today). He says I am still brining up "drama" and he cant believe Im bringing it all up. I said, calmly, you are the one who brought the drama by first cussing and yelling at me, nd then telling me how you have doubts about my ability to stand by you in difficult times. I said, I was reacting to what you said to me. It hurt me incredibly and now I have been left with all these feelings that I dont know what to do with and you wont even acknowledge them. It is unfair of you to do those things, say those things, then when I respond to them, accuse me of drama and insensitivity. Or just flat out ignore them.

 

He says that what I should have done is listen to the cussing yelling etc and "understand" his situation and basically just deal with it, etc. I say you know, when someone treats you that way, blames it on a situation they're dealing with, and expects you to just sit there and be treated in that way and ignore it and not feel anything, that sounds to me like verbal abuse. He responds sarcastically well i guess Im abusive.

 

He then hollers that he is going to hang up again because I cant just let things go, etc. I say, well before you hang up answer me a quesiton.......I've been so worried about what you said. Do you really feel that way? Do you really feel that I am not someone who would stand beside you in difficult times? He says to me "I have my doubts".

 

So I say, well if that is how you feel about me after 5 years and all we've been through, then I guess I should leave. You cant possibly consider me the "love of your life" and your "fiance" if you feel that way. You cant even take a minute to discuss what you said knowing how much it hurt me. He says to me WELL I GUESS YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT!!!" and HANGS UP ON ME again.

 

I called back several times last night. he didnt answer and soon just turned his answering machine off. I called again this morning and left a message on the cell. He has yet to call me back. On my messages that I was able to leave, I was saying that I know we are both upset and angry, but I dont want this to destroy us, that I want to talk, that if he cares anything at all about this relationship to please call me. Nothing.

He still hasnt called.

 

What should I do at this point? I can understand his situation. But i cant understand how you cant even have a conversation with someone because you are "dealing" with something (almost a week later) when it was YOU that did the cussing, yelling, and said the terrible things that were said to begin with. I did not just create some drama, I was reacting to what he was doing/saying to me. When I told him all that, he accused me again of being totally ignorant to his situation and only caring about myself and MY feelings. Am I ?

 

He said I should just be there to talk when he feels up to it, and it should be lighthearted, and if I want to talk at any other time, or about any other thing, then I am wrong. I told him I totally disagreed with that and he said "well Im sorry that this isnt a convenient time for me to talk to you about your FEELINGS". That's the last I heard from him.

 

I dont know what to do. Keep calling? Take this as a sign and walk away? I know I'll never be able to be someones sounding board to that extent. Frustration and pi**ness is one thing, but cussing and yelling, then accusing me of not being able to stand beside during difficult times (when I feel i have done that ten times over with him) I just dont think its right. I think its selfish, and at the same time I feel like a heel for thinking that knowing what he's going through.

 

Was I just totally insensitive? Is it even fathomable that he cant see my position here? What do I do now?

HELP

 

Salt

[saltwatergirl]

i should also add that I did something that I have warned others on here not to do. I basically backed him into a corner. i said last night that if I did not hear from him by today, that I would assume that this whole relationship means nothing to him, and that it would be done and over with. And I havent heard from him. I should not have said that. But at the time (and even now), its how I feel. If I thought my relationship was ending, and I didnt want it to, Id talk. I dont care what I was "dealing with" in my personal life. It would matter enough to me. He would say that is an example of how I think everyone should feel and act as I would in any given situation. There are times when I really believe what I am saying is what any rationale human being would say or do. He says that is me and my selfish, one-sided view of things.

 

Im all messed up. I dont even know what I think or believe anymore, and I question everything I do, wondering if it is "normal" and "rational" or if I am just totally messed up and a selfish jerk. He has me starting to question how I view life and relationships, and maybe I am just totally wrapped up in myself. Maybe I really dont see others perspectives, but I have never had this problem with any other relationship.

 

He said that there have been many times when , due to my PMS, I've been awful to him and he has just 'let it go". That I cant give the same consideraton to him. But i didnt cuss and yell and say these things, i was just grippy. I mean everyone has bad days and explodes on others but at some point they apologize about it. He says See there you go waiting on an apology when my whole world is falling apart and you could care less about that. Which is NOT TRUE. He just screams that I am like talking to a wall and hangs up. I dont know whats wrong with me, or what I keep doing wrong to make this person unhappy with me. PLEASE HELP!

Salt

[DN]

I understand why you are upset but he must be under incredible stress - maybe you could cut him a little slack, at least for now.

[sorryJason]

Yes, he might be under stress, but that is no excuse for what he is doing to you.

 

I am telling you this as a man that was exactly like your man, I had lots of stress in my life, most of it induced by me, and I took it out on my (now ex). What I needed was swift kick in the pants. She left me and I realize now that the way I was treating her was wrong in every respect.

 

If you want to save your relationship, which by your posting I see you really do, leave him and tell him you are not coming back until he can control himself, believe me I know this might be hard, but it will be better than dealing with his crap for the rest of your life or maybe ending the relationship forever because of his problems. I know he has stress and he has problems, but guess what! We all have stress in our lives, we all have problems we are working on, but it doesn't have to end in him yelling at you, and believe me, it won't just end in yelliing, it may progress to him hurting you physically. Yes, he may be good to you when things are ok, but it sounds like you are good to him all the time, not just when things are ok. Think about that!

 

Even if you just leave him for a while, let him know that you can be there for him, but he has to look after his own stuff too, you can't solve all his problems, and no problem gets solved by yelling! But make sure he knows that you will not go back to him, or stay with him if he yells at you or calls you names, no one deserves that. Just think of how you deal with him on the phone, and do it in person, leave him until he realizes that he can't get away with acting like this. A real man deals with his problems with out yelling or acting out. I mean if you can deal with stuff without yelling, he sure can too.

 

I hope that I have helped at least a little bit, if you really someone, sometimes you have to give them tough love. It seems like you really love him, and if you don't end the relationship forever, then leave him for now and either tell him you are not coming back until changes his attitude, if you do this, and he starts yelling, leave again , or you can just leave him forever and find someone better for you.

 

A good book to read is "Why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft, it may help you understand what is happening in his mind. I will pray for both of you.

 

Sorry for the long post, I hope I have helped!

[jevonj77]

What I see is quite clear...what he said was simply because he was too angry to say anything else...this does not excuse it though...

 

However, I think that what you could have done is to just swallow your pride after he yelled at you and simply go back and start by empathyzing with him on his situation and telling him as to how this situation of his wil get better and if not what the two of you will do about it.

 

Just forget about yourself right now or what you would be thinking but only as to what he might want to hear you tell him at this time...in relation to his problem...he is too angry and scared to hear anything else...and right now may be a little irrational.

 

However , you should take this as a sign as to how he will react when he is the most angry...speaking will get very difficult unless one of the two parties changes their approach no matter who is right or wrong. After the situation has calmed, the other aspects can be looked at.

 

I think that he still wants to be with you...but he is stressed out...

[Miss M]

Wow, Saltwatergirl, what you described here is classic abuse behavior. Very bad, awful. There's no excuse for what he's doing. None. I've never been hit, but I was subjected to a lot of emotional and verbal abuse that was just like yours, but it took me years to figure it out. And what it does to you is insidious and harmful. I'd say you do really need to get away from this guy before you get any worse.

 

Im all messed up. I dont even know what I think or believe anymore, and I question everything I do, wondering if it is "normal" and "rational" or if I am just totally messed up and a selfish jerk. He has me starting to question how I view life and relationships, and maybe I am just totally wrapped up in myself. Maybe I really dont see others perspectives, but I have never had this problem with any other relationship.

And this is so very typical of someone who is being affected by the abuse. It causes you to start second-guessing yourself, even though you know for a fact that you've been a fair and supportive person. You start viewing yourself through the abuser's eyes. Don't do this to yourself. Get away from him and try to purge his his perspective of you from your head before you start undermining your own integrity with yourself.

 

He said that there have been many times when , due to my PMS, I've been awful to him and he has just 'let it go". That I cant give the same consideraton to him. But i didnt cuss and yell and say these things, i was just grippy. I mean everyone has bad days and explodes on others but at some point they apologize about it. He says See there you go waiting on an apology when my whole world is falling apart and you could care less about that. Which is NOT TRUE. He just screams that I am like talking to a wall and hangs up.

This is so alarming for me to read this. And again, very classic abuse logic. He's switching the focus to you, pointing the finger at you, portraying you as the villainess when he's actually the one doing the abusing. It's a very typical and classic maneuver that an abuser uses in order to distract you from what he doing. And it induces guilt and self-blame in the victim, taking the focus off of him. Don't fall for this. Don't get pulled into this kind of trap with him.

 

I dont know whats wrong with me, or what I keep doing wrong to make this person unhappy with me. PLEASE HELP!

And this is so classic too. Earlier you said you knew you're a fair and caring person who has given ample support to the him. You knew his accusations were unfair and unreasonable. But you're also letting self-doubt creep in even though you know you're a fair person. Please don't start taking responsibility for his awful behavior when he mistreats you. Please don't think there is something wrong with you when someone curses and yells at you. That's no different than when a woman thinks something is wrong with her when a guy hits her. A guy hits her and then tries to convince her she's the one who is wrong. And she starts believing she did something wrong to cause him to hit her. Verbal abuse is assault and there's nothing wrong with you when he does that. But there is definitely something wrong with him. This is how it starts, a stable, supportive, and caring woman starts doubting herself, wondering what she did wrong, and that self-doubt just sets her up for more abuse.

 

That book Jason recommended is a really good one, and it changed my life. If you're into books it's the best out there for helping to regain perspective about an abusive relationship. Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft.

 

Also, don't readily assume that he's innocent of the incident at school. Be objective and don't believe innocence or guilt until you've objectively looked at all the facts. It may be true that it's a false accusation. But then again, his treatment of you makes me very suspicious. Is there a way you can look into that without letting him know?

 

Please take care of yourself.

And good luck.

[Miss M]

Another very excellent book is The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. It's really good for helping one to recognize that verbal abuse is abuse, explains how it undermines your relationship with yourself, why verbal abuse is very toxic.

[saltwatergirl]

Thanks to you all for your replies.

 

Well he emailed me, telling me that what he wants from me is to be there when he needs a shoulder and support, and back off when he wants to be alone. That right now he wants to be alone, but that he hopes I am still there "when the smoke clears". THat when he has problems there are consequences and that I should be supportive by backing off when he didnt want to deal and be there for him when he did contact me.

 

I replied to the email saying that I didnt think that was very fair, and that it made me feel very disposable and not all that important in his world. I said that it sounded like he wanted a girlfriend of convenience---that he wanted only the "good stuff" but then Im supposed to just be put on pause when he feels like he cnat deal, and that I was sorry but I just would not do that. I was very tactful and ended it by saying i would like to be there and that i hoped he would consider what Im saying. I said for now I would give him what he was wanting, which to me was a break, and that he should be prepared for whatever consequence that brings.

 

(Keep in mind we have YET to discuss his yelling and cussing at me, which is what started it all. Weve now veared off into "will she be there during difficult times" which I have no idea where that came from---but that is now what we're dealing with. This is typical, he changes channels randomly and the arguments (my feelings) never get resolved...anywa:

 

He replied: "Wow! YOu just confirmed all my fears (that I would not be there during difficult times). He was angry in it, and said that he knew what a break meant and I could do whatever I want during it (like it was ME who wanted it) and that he would eventually come out on top in his situation and then I'd regret my decision.

 

Here is my last reply to him: I have no doubts that you will come out on top, and I never had any. So you are preaching to the wall there. But you know what, my future is pretty secure, regardless. That has zero bearing on my reasons for being with you, or without you. So dont preach that self righteous crap to me.

Go ahead and be alone. I am darn sure not going to try to coerse someone into staying involved with me on some half-a^$ basis. Or negotiate my PLACE with them. what am I just some cog in your world? Go ahead. Be free. I was fine before when you threw me away and Ill be fine this time, too. And after all you have done to this relationship in the past, now you want me to just be there if you want me and thrown aside when you dont? Well You can take your pompous arrogant attitude and stick it right up your ----.

 

Thanks again to you all.

 

Salt

[Miss M]

Wow, you're one tough lady. Amd I'm really loving your last words to him. Good for you.

 

I just glimpsed your original post again. After I read the first few lines of it the first time, I had forgotten about it because so many of the details further along set off all kinds of bells and red flags with me... a lot of similarities to mine, and I became alarmed and started writing a post. But when I look at all you've now written, and then go back read those first few lines again, OMG, there's sooo much you've been putting up with.

 

I caught him in several compromising situations of cheating, no proof or admittance but strong suggestions. He also "disappeared" on 2 different occasions for a couple weeks each time, then back claiming momentary freak out due to personal problems.....I finally decided to 'forgive & forget"

And then he got accused by a student of these heavy charges? And also ended by telling you that you confirmed his fears about not being there during difficult times? Oh my, such an absurd irony, but also again very typical. Yes, abusers find all kinds of ways to portray others as the villains and themselves the victims when they screw up. And it's often difficult, but very important to not take the blame when he starts making those accusations.

 

You believe he will come out on top? You have faith in him? Yeah I used to do that too. But this guy might not be on top when it all washes out. His problem with the student may be what pulls his world apart. But I do have great faith that YOU'LL be just fine. You're probably much better off without him.

 

Take care and best wishes.

[saltwatergirl]

The lies he has told me (and they were lies because he has since admitted to them all being lies) are too many to name. The cheating, the lying, I wont even go into to it because its just going to embarrass me for actually forgiving it all away. I have really let myself down.

 

Its funny because all the other times, Id run to friends or family crying, with the whole story wanting advice. Right now, though, I dont run to anyone. I dont want any advice from anyone. As a matter of fact my friends and family dont even know. I want to do it all, completely by myself. This is for some reason how I have to do it. I dont know where I got this sudden burst of strength. But its like being on a mountain climb and falling, and saying to your friend "NO DONT HELP ME, I WANT TO DO IT BY MYSELF!" This is totally out of character for me. Im not exactly a pillar of inner strength, particulary when it comes to him.

 

No idea where its coming from or what it means....its like a tidalwave that i cant stop.

 

Salt

[Miss M]

The cheating, the lying, I wont even go into to it because its just going to embarrass me for actually forgiving it all away. I have really let myself down.

Feeling this way is typical, understandable, but I hope you know you shouldn't spend too much time thinking like this. He cheated and lied, and then invited you to you share in his distortions. IOW he invited/insisted that you join with him in betraying yourself. And he painted a convincing story, and told it to you in the precise way that would specifically pull you into the trap. So it's very understandable to feel that you've let yourself down, but it's also not good to stay there too long. You genuinely trusted and cared and believed and loved him. All of those are very good things, and you really shouldn't beat yourself up for that. HE's the one who did the betrayals so it's time to let HIM own all of those. It seems he's really good at casting blame, and is a little out of practice for taking responsibility. On the other hand, you've carried an unfair burden of blame, and it wouldn't be good to spend even more time continuing to do that by beating yourself up for letting yourself down. Now is a good time to remember your own generosity, sincerity, and innocence. Rebuild your relationship with yourself, and make it a good one. Trust yourself once again.

 

Its funny because all the other times, Id run to friends or family crying, with the whole story wanting advice. Right now, though, I dont run to anyone. I dont want any advice from anyone. As a matter of fact my friends and family dont even know. I want to do it all, completely by myself. This is for some reason how I have to do it. I dont know where I got this sudden burst of strength. But its like being on a mountain climb and falling, and saying to your friend "NO DONT HELP ME, I WANT TO DO IT BY MYSELF!" This is totally out of character for me. Im not exactly a pillar of inner strength, particulary when it comes to him.

Well, from here it seems you're a real pro, quite good at it. And it really does suit you very nicely. So I guess you're just flexing your emotional muscles, getting a little much-needed exercise? Well, it does look quite impressive from here, and you really don't look like someone who needs much advice. So just regard me as more of a cheerleader. Yay!

 

No idea where its coming from or what it means....its like a tidalwave that i cant stop.

Ah, but it is STRENGTH and CLARITY, and I wish for you to always have that. And it's also beautiful, and encouraging for me to gaze upon it as I continue my own recovery. Thanks for that.