Losing an old friend to a new friend group

[Sam1986]

First of all, thanks in advance for reading through this and any input you might have. 😊

Me and a friend (lets call him "A"), used to be pretty tight and have over the years since college been quite a lot together on our spare times, and even travelled a lot together abroad. For years now, we've been talking about getting into football (or soccer as Americans call it) and supporting our local team more on a weekly basis. So last year, we did exactly that and started going to more and more games.

In the beginning it was quite fun, and we went together on all games. I knew he wanted to get more deep into it, so in the beginning I made an effort to scale things up. I ordered bus tickets for us (supporter buses, generally very loud, crammed with fans and beer) in order to get us more ingrained in the millieu and making new aquaintances. On one of these bus trips, I met another guy ("B"), who seemed quite nice, and the three of us got together on the trip back and exchanged contact information for future games. Next game, we met a friend ("C") who A knew from work. This was fine as well, and we started to have contact with him as well. The next games, me, A and both B and C got together in the pub before games, and it seemed like we had a nice thing going.

Now fast forward a few months until last autumn, and I was a bit late for a game because I had to finish my laundry (well not exactly late, I was gonna arrive at the pub some 1,5 - 2 hours before the game like usual). But while texting them on the way, it was made clear to me (especially by C) that they were gonna leave because they wanted to get the best stands at the game, and that apparently required them to leave almost 1,5 hours early to walk to the stadium and get in early. So when I got there I got about 5 minutes of being able to say hi, before A, B and C left for the stadium. Meanwhile I was stuck there with a beer and noone to talk to. This felt really bad, because noone had told me that beforehand, and especially regarding A (who I've known for years), I felt that it sucked that he now suddenly had chosen to join B and C instead of sitting down to have a beer with me. I also told my friend A about it, and he showed some sympathy and would stay around the next time so that I wouldnt be stuck alone at the pub.

Now fast forward a few months again until winter, where we went to a couple of games. It was freezing at that time (-10 degrees C), and I got really cold in two games to the point that I went to the toilets during halftime to warm my hands up. Now apparently that was funny to C, who over the next 4 months kept cracking jokes almost weekly at my expense and asking whether I had brought warm clothes or gloves this time (this was early spring). It was fun for the first 2-3 times (heck, I can take some flak), but after that I started getting tired of that old joke, which was definitely made on my expense and did not seem to stop.

Then some two months ago, C (who was the one who wanted to go 1,5 hours early to games) again wanted to go early to a game, and since I didnt care to argue about it (even though I personally prefer waiting until 30 minutes or so until the game begins so that I can socialize at the pub) I went with them. I managed to get first through the gates while A, B and C were faffing about, and thought that I'd get some good stands (which is why C wants to go early). The place got crowded, but I did manage to get some good stands by chasing others away until A, B and C came... or so I thought. C was complaining during the game and after about how bad these stands were, and that really annoyed me because I had gotten those spots, and I had gotten them because they were somewhat late through the gates.

Then there is B, the guy I got to know initially on one of our bus trips. For some reason we dont bond (which is fine by itself), but he acts very superior to me every time we meet. He hardly looks at me when I talk to him, and his whole body language shows that he is not interested in keeping a conversation with me.Meanwhile, B lights up when talking to A and C, and seems quite interested to socialize with both and chats with them all the time on messenger.

Last week was the last straw for me. I work right next to the stadium, and C texted a few hours early and asked how the weather was. So I went out to check, told him it was generally warm, and that I would be keeping some seats for C and B until they could get to the stadium. Well they never bothered to come by even though I sat there for like an hour looking for them, and apparently they had just gone somewhere else without telling me, and then headed into the stadium without letting me know (my original friend A could not join us for this game). Later during half time I saw B and went over to say hi to him, but he basically just exchanged pleasantries with me for like 10 seconds, before "having to go" (to be with C). That part sucked as well, because I had already tried to meet them before the game and I felt I wasnt worth the time to talk to during half time even.

For the last couple of months now, I have made a somewhat conscious decision to not be with B and C, and instead travelled on my own to away games (taking the bus alone). This is where things get kind of sad for me though, because I have told A about how I dont feel that I get along with B and C. I have also asked if he wants to go on more bus trips with me for the away games, but he prefers to tag along with B and C (who are driving). Obviously I cant make him choose me over them (and I wouldnt want to have him make the choice either), but it sucks hard that I now basically have noone to go with (apart from some other people I've met, but its nothing solid yet). I felt that this was supposed to be something that me and A were originally doing together, but I also feel that C has taken some sort of leadership in the group, and that he is now calling the shots and where A and B seem more than willing to follow. I personally really dislike friend groups like these (with a "leader" that calls the shots), as I prefer groups where everyone's interests are taken into account. I feel like mine are definitely last on anyone's priority list. And so I've told A that I wont be joining B and C anymore, and it looks like he is drifting over to their side in the future. Which is the situation where I'm at in the moment.


I dont know if this was coherent for any readers of this wall of text, but I am hoping for some feedback nevertheless. Have any of you experienced something similar before, in a friend group? How would you go about it?

[Batya33]

What I would do is go back to doing one on one things with A.  He's a friend and this arrangement sounds more like activity focused than a friend group - you're hanging out together because of the game and the pub not because you're close friends with them.  How often do you chat about personal stuff in between games?

Also I don't blame them for how they behaved when you were late.  I'm a person who is always timely barring a true and very rare emergency and it sounds like your expectations when you were late because of laundry were unrealistic.

[Andrina]

You've made your efforts to plan outings with a friend and with the group, so you've done your part. Things have evolved to no longer being satisfying for you, so I'd no longer make efforts with any of them. Maybe your college friend will eventually realize he misses your company and goes back to making plans with you, or maybe he won't.

Just know that it's common for friendships to evolve, either for the good or the bad. It's happened for me and every person I know.

Some people choose to talk to their friend and divulge their feelings about the situation, asking for what they expect.

I've never done that and choose to take their actions as all I need to know. That I should move my spare time to enjoyable things which no longer involves someone who no longer values my friendship like they once did, or at least once pretended to.

You can join Meetup.com groups to meet new people to hang out with. You could even start your own Meetup group where you meet at a certain hour before the game at the bar like you're doing now, and then head over to the game together.

You can also join other groups that hike together, go to local festivals together, etc. When old friends fade away, it leaves room to form new friends. It sometimes takes longer than you'd like to fill that space that is no longer there, and takes time to build new friendships, but you have to be up for the challenge because the alternative is having no company. Take care.

[Sam1986]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

What I would do is go back to doing one on one things with A.  He's a friend and this arrangement sounds more like activity focused than a friend group - you're hanging out together because of the game and the pub not because you're close friends with them.  How often do you chat about personal stuff in between games?

Also I don't blame them for how they behaved when you were late.  I'm a person who is always timely barring a true and very rare emergency and it sounds like your expectations when you were late because of laundry were unrealistic.

I'm hoping we can do more stuff together again, and he has shown some more interest in it after I brought up the issue yesterday (starting up a quiz team again, joining me on bus trips etc.). I'll find out how sincere it is though, since last time I brought it up he said he would stick around at the pub with me for a bit longer, but has since reverted to hanging out mostly with B and C.

Apparently they chat about personal stuff in that group, but I haven't been a part of any of that talk. For instance, B is having a child in a few months, which was completely unknown to me up until last week (he shows zero interest in talking to me anyway, not looking at me while we talk and generally acting superior and cutting things short).

You're misunderstanding about "being late". Yes I was "late" in the sense that I came 1,5 - 2 hours early, instead of the usual 3 hours. But that is irrelevant, because we usually went to the game 30 minutes ahead of time, meaning that I could have gotten at least an hour of time with them. But suddenly C wanted to go much earlier, so much so that I could barely get to talk to them for five minutes before they left. Thus I got no real heads up about our new "schedule". Apparently C has since wanted to go early every game, and what really annoys me is that he is now suddenly calling the shots. Neither A nor B are really into getting in there early either (its really boring once inside anyway), but they're following C around because he's now apparently made himself into some sort of leader. Which annoys me, because in my head this is a group thing.

[Sam1986]

8 hours ago, Andrina said:

You've made your efforts to plan outings with a friend and with the group, so you've done your part. Things have evolved to no longer being satisfying for you, so I'd no longer make efforts with any of them. Maybe your college friend will eventually realize he misses your company and goes back to making plans with you, or maybe he won't.

Just know that it's common for friendships to evolve, either for the good or the bad. It's happened for me and every person I know.

Some people choose to talk to their friend and divulge their feelings about the situation, asking for what they expect.

I've never done that and choose to take their actions as all I need to know. That I should move my spare time to enjoyable things which no longer involves someone who no longer values my friendship like they once did, or at least once pretended to.

You can join Meetup.com groups to meet new people to hang out with. You could even start your own Meetup group where you meet at a certain hour before the game at the bar like you're doing now, and then head over to the game together.

You can also join other groups that hike together, go to local festivals together, etc. When old friends fade away, it leaves room to form new friends. It sometimes takes longer than you'd like to fill that space that is no longer there, and takes time to build new friendships, but you have to be up for the challenge because the alternative is having no company. Take care.

That's a bit radical. I've known my friend for 15 years now, so that would be a bit rash over this one issue. That being said, I am somewhat disappointed in that things evolved this way, because it was supposed to be an activity for the two of us to begin with, but I was more than happy to have more people join in (like with B, who I introduced to our group). What I dislike about the situation though is that I'm now feeling left out of a thing that I "started" together with A, and noone really seems to care whether I show up or not, and if I show up, I am apparently expected to follow Cs lead for the day. F* that.

I do get the gist of what you're suggesting though, and I have been trying to find other people to hang around with on match days. So far it has been so-so, getting a new group to hang out with isnt that easy, but I'm making an effort to do so on my own.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Sam1986 said:

Yes I was "late" in the sense that I came 1,5 - 2 hours early, instead of the usual 3 hours

When were you expected to arrive and when did you tell them you would be there? Why is it important to you to have a group of people who all want to do the same thing at the same time? Why not seek out individual friendships? It sounds like you and C don't have a lot in common and you don't like C. But they do.  That can happen in groups of course. 

Group dynamics can change especially if one person's lifestyle is changing.  I had friends who were unwilling to accommodate my new schedule when I had a baby, and who were unwilling to make only tentative plans when I worked very long and unpredictable hours from age 28-42.  I had acquaintance groups. Monthly dinner/networking group, monthly book club meeting, like that but mostly I made plans one on one, or with other couples, or sometimes with 2 friends.  If it's that important for you to have a "group" then accept that that is often harder to find -as you're seeing now in a group dynamic that is not working for you.

[Sam1986]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

When were you expected to arrive and when did you tell them you would be there? Why is it important to you to have a group of people who all want to do the same thing at the same time? Why not seek out individual friendships? It sounds like you and C don't have a lot in common and you don't like C. But they do.  That can happen in groups of course. 

Group dynamics can change especially if one person's lifestyle is changing.  I had friends who were unwilling to accommodate my new schedule when I had a baby, and who were unwilling to make only tentative plans when I worked very long and unpredictable hours from age 28-42.  I had acquaintance groups. Monthly dinner/networking group, monthly book club meeting, like that but mostly I made plans one on one, or with other couples, or sometimes with 2 friends.  If it's that important for you to have a "group" then accept that that is often harder to find -as you're seeing now in a group dynamic that is not working for you.

I wasnt "supposed" to come at any time, but personally I tend to be out early (2-3 hours) because I like the social aspect of it. In this case I was "late" by my own standards. These guys are usually "late" as well, but especially C here doesnt value the social aspect of it much and wants to get inside as early as possible (hence no need to socialize beforehand). Its not necessarily the problem that we are supposed to do everything together (I have another friend who is like that..) but more that they choose him and whatever his wishes are at any time.

So far I've entered early under his lead a couple of times, but its getting tiresome that its always him calling the shots, hence his schedule that we are supposed to conform to. Who made him the leader? Anyway, Im just ranting here at this point.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Sam1986 said:

I wasnt "supposed" to come at any time, but personally I tend to be out early (2-3 hours) because I like the social aspect of it. In this case I was "late" by my own standards. These guys are usually "late" as well, but especially C here doesnt value the social aspect of it much and wants to get inside as early as possible (hence no need to socialize beforehand). Its not necessarily the problem that we are supposed to do everything together (I have another friend who is like that..) but more that they choose him and whatever his wishes are at any time.

So far I've entered early under his lead a couple of times, but its getting tiresome that its always him calling the shots, hence his schedule that we are supposed to conform to. Who made him the leader? Anyway, Im just ranting here at this point.

Many groups tend to have a leader type. I wrote above my suggestions as an alternative to seeking out a group as opposed to making friends one on one. 

[Jaunty]

It sounds like you need to loosen up a bit.   As another poster said, friendships are in a state of flux and don't remain static; also, you got very involved in planning group activities and seemed to focus on that more than on just being with the friend(s) and having a good time.  

In your example, you got to the pub and got a beer.  The other friends decided to head to the stadium.  You chose to stay there and drink your beer.  

Your choice!   You could have just gone with them.  Expecting that one friend to hang back and drink the beer with you so you would not be by yourself seems like a kind of clingy move on your part.    If you wanted to be with them it would be up to you to go along at the arranged time.

Please don't make this about somebody abandoning you for others.  If you're part of a friend group it's up to you to participate and add to the fun, not be "high maintenance" and expect anybody else there to take care of your feelings, especially when you're talking about a bunch of guys who are drinking beer in a pub prior to going to a rowdy event.

[Sam1986]

37 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Many groups tend to have a leader type. I wrote above my suggestions as an alternative to seeking out a group as opposed to making friends one on one. 

Yeah I have been trying to get some more one on one things going, but it's not something I can rely on yet unfortunately. Personally I don't subscribe to the whole "leader" thing, at least not when the leader is just forcing his own preferences on everyone else. I've been vocal on this already, and since things aren't changing I refuse to follow along with it.

[Sam1986]

21 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

It sounds like you need to loosen up a bit.   As another poster said, friendships are in a state of flux and don't remain static; also, you got very involved in planning group activities and seemed to focus on that more than on just being with the friend(s) and having a good time.  

In your example, you got to the pub and got a beer.  The other friends decided to head to the stadium.  You chose to stay there and drink your beer.  

Your choice!   You could have just gone with them.  Expecting that one friend to hang back and drink the beer with you so you would not be by yourself seems like a kind of clingy move on your part.    If you wanted to be with them it would be up to you to go along at the arranged time.

Please don't make this about somebody abandoning you for others.  If you're part of a friend group it's up to you to participate and add to the fun, not be "high maintenance" and expect anybody else there to take care of your feelings, especially when you're talking about a bunch of guys who are drinking beer in a pub prior to going to a rowdy event.

I respectfully disagree with this.

Yeah I could have gone with them, but this was not an "arranged time" at all, as I was literally told by text when I was on the subway that they would be leaving by the time I would arrive. Which pissed me off, since that was a damn late heads up and I wouldnt have bothered to hurry and finish my laundry to meet up with them, if I knew that they were leaving the second I walked in that door. I might as well have chosen to stay at home or take my time then. I absolutely had some expectations that we would hang around for a bit, since that was the norm in our group up until then.

I can get your point about being "high maintenance" (not that I think that I am, but still), but the thing that just pisses me off is that C starts complaining every time he doesnt get his way. So far he has complained several times about not getting his perfect spot at the stadium (even when I went in a bit earlier than him to get him what I thought was a good spot for us, at which point he complained as well), and personally I would love to just see him f* off if he really needs to secure that spot. So in terms of being "high maintenance", I think he would fit the bill as well. And he should especially be grateful when i entered before him to secure what I thought was his favourite spot, instead of complaining about it like a wanker afterwards that it wasnt three rows further up. F* that ungrateful pr***.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Sam1986 said:

Yeah I have been trying to get some more one on one things going, but it's not something I can rely on yet unfortunately. Personally I don't subscribe to the whole "leader" thing, at least not when the leader is just forcing his own preferences on everyone else. I've been vocal on this already, and since things aren't changing I refuse to follow along with it.

Friendship is voluntary.  Nothing to refuse - simply decide that the way this group interacts is not a good fit for you.  No need to criticize or judge. Or make this into right or wrong. Ask yourself- for future friendships -would  you rather be right or close? I agree with Jaunty's input.

[Sam1986]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

 I agree with Jaunty's input.

What, that I'm clingy and high maintenance?

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Sam1986 said:

What, that I'm clingy and high maintenance?

LOLLL! Thanks for the chuckle.  I think you mostly want to argue.  Good luck to you and I  hope some of my input helped.

[Sam1986]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

LOLLL! Thanks for the chuckle.  I think you mostly want to argue.  Good luck to you and I  hope some of my input helped.

I didnt mean to argue, it was just the gist of what I got out of Jaunty's reply. Thanks for all the input though.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Sam1986 said:

I didnt mean to argue, it was just the gist of what I got out of Jaunty's reply. Thanks for all the input though.

What he wrote was similar to what I wrote -you seem to be focused on needing a "group" that does things together -specific things and fairly specific routine (except when you feel like changing it up like you did with choosing to get your laundry done and show up later) - and to me that's different from wanting friendship.  That's wanting to feel like you're part of a group of friends  -more like acquaintances or activity partners - rather than truly wanting to connect.  That might be why that person didn't tell you he was an expectant father -he gets the sense from you that your focus is far more on hanging out as a group than caring about his individual life when he's not at the game/the pub.

 

[Jaunty]

If you weren't obviously old enough to drink, I would think you must be a young teenager.   I don't know anyone who would even really track the situation that you described, much less take issue with it.

So now that you are "refusing" to go along with it, does this mean that you won't be going to the games together with this group anymore?  

That seems like a shame if you were having fun.   I mean ... is it such a huge deal to meet up at the stadium if you decide to do laundry or whatever and come at a different time?

[rainbowsandroses]

On 5/12/2024 at 1:36 PM, Sam1986 said:

I dont know if this was coherent for any readers of this wall of text, but I am hoping for some feedback nevertheless. Have any of you experienced something similar before, in a friend group? How would you go about it?

Hi Sam.  Yes I read the entire post and (1) it was coherent to me and (2) I have experienced similar among my "friend group" at the time and it hurt my feelings tremendously!  This was in high school and I recall crying a few times (I'm female) when my very best friend since third grade made friends with two other girls (who eventually became the friend group) and often chose to spend time with them instead of me.

She invited me along occasionally however I found the two girls shallow, petty and gossipy and I didn't really care for them.  I felt awkward and out of place around them so would often decline the invites after which I was deemed "standoffish" and "unfriendly."  

What happened was my good friend and I eventually distanced and I made a couple of new friends.   There were no harsh words spoken or any drama.  The distance happened gradually and naturally. 

I was incredibly sad for a very long time, we didn't actually talk or see each other for two years!  I missed her A LOT.

One day (after around two years) she reached out and we reconnected.  It was literally like NO time had passed!   We ended up traveling through Europe together for a year after we both graduated.

To this day we are still best friends!!   And this never happened again.  We both realize we have separate lives and there is sometimes a bit of distance which is OKAY.  Like I said, our friendship will always remain strong regardless.

My thoughts on friendships, even close ones where you've known each other for years, is that they sometimes go through changes and even temporary estrangements.  That doesn't mean you are no longer friends, that friendship will always be there, you're simply in a different stage of life or one or both have made new friends and as a result have distanced.

BUT if it's a true close friendship, you will always find your way back eventually.

What are your thoughts about that?  Simply allowing your friendship with A to experience this temporary change/estrangement and begin making new friends?  

Yes it IS incredibly sad and hurtful, but you make it through and someday (hopefully it won't be TWO years as in my case), you will find your back to each other.

I guess what I am trying to say is that your feelings about this are 100% valid imo.  Friendships can be hard and often quite hurtful.  Not something one can easily just let roll off or become more flexible about.   I mean we try to be but emotions don't always cooperate the way we want them to.  But we make it through.

JMO Sam. I'm sorry this happened and good luck to you.