What kind of relationship do me and my friend have? Please help

[limandy]

*** I cant ask anybody I know this question, so I REALLY APPRECIATE all your insight****

Here is the background:

I have a really good friend of roughly 1.5 to 2 years. We are both male, and we get along very well. He is the only one that I can travel with without getting annoyed (to me that is a extremely compatible friend, as most people I can not stand after a day of hanging out with them.) I truly beleive he is 100% straight. He is one of those people that gets ALOT of girls, as in a different girlfriend every few months, and he actively has sex with them. We basically are like almost brothers, we can talk to each other about anything, and is really comfortable to open up to each other about any topic in life.

The part that questions me is this. We are very active people, we do sports everyday, including extreme sports such as parkour and downhill mountain biking etc. We also like to have playful fights like wrestling and what not. But we both would wrestle with our clothes on, and we both would wrestle completely naked as well. He and I would both grab each other balls (not playful, but like hard enough grab to hurt) with and without underwear on. Also we would play drinking games when we are traveling, and in our hotel room, we would both get naked on the bed. He would let me cuddle naked with him, or sit on top of him while letting me rub myself against him, when we both get really drunk. The whole time I would have a hard on and he would tap it or make fun of it, while he never gets hard when I rub against him. There was one time I would be kissing his neck as well as rubbing on him naked. The next day we wouldnt really talk about it, just talk about us drinking, not mentioning the naked thing, but he also says that he remembers everything.

Question:

Is it normal that straight guys do this with each other all the time? I am personally bi, but he doesnt know that. We mostly talk about girls and stuff. On the outside he honeslty acts 100% straight to me, only checks out girls, and talks about girls and sex with them. I obviously find him extremely attractive, but I just want to know your guys opinion if he is straight or not? and if other straight guys do this to each other and find it normal? Also do you think he knows im bi, or do straight guys just think this is what they do there best buddies?

Thanks, just curious about this situation, never had it before.

[Batya33]

You two are being sexual with each other.  I don't know if he is gay or straight but the current situation is you two are interacting in a sexual way.  I think you should tell him you are bi if he doesn't already know this. 

No - platonic friends do not interact sexually.  That's common sense -it's just definitional .  It's not abnormal - it just means you two are interacting sexually, not platonically. 

I am a straight woman and pre-covid I certainly hug my friends -male and female -not in a sexual way.  Kiss on the cheek. Etc.

I've shared a bed with my straight woman friend because when we traveled that was what was available at the bed and breakfast.  We were 100% platonic -we just went to sleep.  I would not have shared a bed with a male platonic friend because that's playing with fire IMO.   Nor would I have play wrestled with a male platonic friend other than fleetingly -like Elaine on Seinfeld LOL - and certainly not naked.  There are boundaries people who are platonic friends do not cross without both people acknowledging they want to interact sexually instead of platonically.  You've crossed those boundaries.  You know full well your interactions are sexual -so I'm surprised at your question.  

[Capricorn3]

19 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You two are being sexual with each other. 

No - platonic friends do not interact sexually.  That's common sense -it's just definitional .  It's not abnormal - it just means you two are interacting sexually, not platonically. 

  There are boundaries people who are platonic friends do not cross without both people acknowledging they want to interact sexually instead of platonically.  You've crossed those boundaries.  You know full well your interactions are sexual -so I'm surprised at your question.  

^ I second all of the above. OP, I think you know full well that this is clearly not a platonic friendship.

[jul-els]

He’s obviously comfortable with it, so there’s your answer. What the two of you are doing is not a heterosexual activity and you both know it. Not sure what the mystery is here. 

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, limandy said:

  do you think he knows im bi.

You both know you're both bisexual or on the down low.

What is this? The script from Brokeback Mountain?

[Tinydance]

Well my guess would be is not only is he not straight but he's also physically and sexually attracted to you. Even if he likes to do sport and wrestle, what is the need to wrestle naked? That really crosses past friendship territory. 

[limandy]

9 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You two are being sexual with each other.  I don't know if he is gay or straight but the current situation is you two are interacting in a sexual way.  I think you should tell him you are bi if he doesn't already know this. 

No - platonic friends do not interact sexually.  That's common sense -it's just definitional .  It's not abnormal - it just means you two are interacting sexually, not platonically. 

I am a straight woman and pre-covid I certainly hug my friends -male and female -not in a sexual way.  Kiss on the cheek. Etc.

I've shared a bed with my straight woman friend because when we traveled that was what was available at the bed and breakfast.  We were 100% platonic -we just went to sleep.  I would not have shared a bed with a male platonic friend because that's playing with fire IMO.   Nor would I have play wrestled with a male platonic friend other than fleetingly -like Elaine on Seinfeld LOL - and certainly not naked.  There are boundaries people who are platonic friends do not cross without both people acknowledging they want to interact sexually instead of platonically.  You've crossed those boundaries.  You know full well your interactions are sexual -so I'm surprised at your question.  

hello thanks for your insight, This is a first for me, so I wasent sure.  I have always had relationship with women.  TBH this is my first interaction with a male person, even tho I classify myself as bi.

[limandy]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You both know you're both bisexual or on the down low.

What is this? The script from Brokeback Mountain?

LOL This is funny, yes it sounds like something from a movie, its something really embarrased to talk about, I appreciate your insight and thanks!

[limandy]

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well my guess would be is not only is he not straight but he's also physically and sexually attracted to you. Even if he likes to do sport and wrestle, what is the need to wrestle naked? That really crosses past friendship territory. 

I asked him lightly on this subject, he said he doesnt really care about the nakedness or the hugging and cuddling, but thats all he said.  After that acted like everything is normal and talk about straight guy stuff.  Do you think he is just not accepting what is going on as well?  As in he is not accepting he is bi?

[limandy]

7 hours ago, jul-els said:

He’s obviously comfortable with it, so there’s your answer. What the two of you are doing is not a heterosexual activity and you both know it. Not sure what the mystery is here. 

thanks for your insight.  He just tells me he doesnt really care about the touching and cuddling etc.  but that is all he said.  After that acted like everything is normal, never brought it up, but continue to do it.  You think he is just not accepting it? or maybe there are men out there that dont really care about the intmate touching and cuddling?

[jul-els]

5 minutes ago, limandy said:

thanks for your insight.  He just tells me he doesnt really care about the touching and cuddling etc.  but that is all he said.  After that acted like everything is normal, never brought it up, but continue to do it.  You think he is just not accepting it? or maybe there are men out there that dont really care about the intmate touching and cuddling?

That’s something only he can answer, so you’re going to have to ask him. If he’s not willing to communicate with you, then you might want to stop being intimate with him if it’s going to make you confused and unhappy. 

[limandy]

6 minutes ago, jul-els said:

That’s something only he can answer, so you’re going to have to ask him. If he’s not willing to communicate with you, then you might want to stop being intimate with him if it’s going to make you confused and unhappy. 

Thanks for your opinion!  Really appreciate it!

[limandy]

Oh i forgot to add that he currently has a girlfriend as well, So I am not sure how that is going to play out.  I didnt go far with him, just to be sure it wont be considered "cheating" on his girlfriend.  But then again I am not sure how it works with this since it two different genders.

[limandy]

10 minutes ago, jul-els said:

That’s something only he can answer, so you’re going to have to ask him. If he’s not willing to communicate with you, then you might want to stop being intimate with him if it’s going to make you confused and unhappy. 

Oh i forgot to add that he currently has a girlfriend as well, So I am not sure how that is going to play out.  I didnt go far with him, just to be sure it wont be considered "cheating" on his girlfriend.  But then again I am not sure how it works with this since it two different genders.

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, limandy said:

 it wont be considered "cheating" on his girlfriend.  

Yes it is. You two are being sexual and you know it. Even if it's not penetrative or oral sex...yet.

[jul-els]

Just now, limandy said:

Oh i forgot to add that he currently has a girlfriend as well, So I am not sure how that is going to play out.  I didnt go far with him, just to be sure it wont be considered "cheating" on his girlfriend.  But then again I am not sure how it works with this since it two different genders.

Cheating is cheating, and that’s what he’s doing if his girlfriend doesn’t know about it. Sounds like he’s just using you for sex. It would be wise to stop being intimate with him and find someone who’s not already spoken for. 

[limandy]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Yes it is. You two are being sexual and you know it. Even if it's not penetrative or oral sex...yet.

wow okay thanks for the insight i never thought of it that way

[limandy]

4 minutes ago, jul-els said:

Cheating is cheating, and that’s what he’s doing if his girlfriend doesn’t know about it. Sounds like he’s just using you for sex. It would be wise to stop being intimate with him and find someone who’s not already spoken for. 

thanks for the insight, i really never thought of it that way, you are right about this, really appreciate it!

[limandy]

I am wondering maybe because we are in 2022, for straight men its an okay thing to do now?  Like i said only known him for 1.5 to 2 years, so maybe there is a change in view of what straight relationships are like?

[jul-els]

What the relationship is between him and his girlfriend is defined by him and his girlfriend. It’s got nothing to do with what year it is. 

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, limandy said:

Oh i forgot to add that he currently has a girlfriend as well, So I am not sure how that is going to play out.  I didnt go far with him, just to be sure it wont be considered "cheating" on his girlfriend.  But then again I am not sure how it works with this since it two different genders.

Ummmm....OK but just because it's two guys and not guy and girl, why is it not cheating? You said you've been naked together, touched, cuddled, touched each other's penis? I mean, that's intimate and sexual. 

I think the guy is in the closet and he's into guys as well as girls but he just won't admit it. But because he's in the closet I don't think you'll get any result from him like dating. I mean, he's also not single.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, limandy said:

hello thanks for your insight, This is a first for me, so I wasent sure.  I have always had relationship with women.  TBH this is my first interaction with a male person, even tho I classify myself as bi.

Labels don't matter.  This specific interaction is a sexual interaction.  It doesn't matter if in the past you've had sexual interactions only with women.  This time you had a sexual interaction with a man.  Whether you want to now think about what this means beyond this specific situation is your choice but what happened in this specific interaction is simple -it was sexual.  I recently read my young adolescent son a book on sexual education.  It contains definitions of what is sex and sexual contact.  The book is for ages 11 and up.  It's not that difficult.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, limandy said:

I am wondering maybe because we are in 2022, for straight men its an okay thing to do now?  Like i said only known him for 1.5 to 2 years, so maybe there is a change in view of what straight relationships are like?

Nothing to do with what year it is.  Sexual contact is sexual contact as it was 40 years ago when I was a teenager.  There's no view needed.  This is not a relationship -this is an interaction you described and you asked if it was a platonic interaction.  It was not.  Basic stuff.

Separately if your friend promised not to have sexual contact outside of his relationship then he is cheating.  Perhaps he and his girlfriend defined their boundaries and level of commitment differently. This is none of your concern.

[limandy]

3 hours ago, jul-els said:

What the relationship is between him and his girlfriend is defined by him and his girlfriend. It’s got nothing to do with what year it is. 

I meant, maybe in this day and age, it is more okay for straight men to do more intimate touching with other men, and it is not categorized as "gay" therefore, maybe in his eyes it wasent considered intimate and he wasent "technically" cheating on his gf.  thoughts?

[limandy]

3 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Ummmm....OK but just because it's two guys and not guy and girl, why is it not cheating? You said you've been naked together, touched, cuddled, touched each other's penis? I mean, that's intimate and sexual. 

I think the guy is in the closet and he's into guys as well as girls but he just won't admit it. But because he's in the closet I don't think you'll get any result from him like dating. I mean, he's also not single.

that is true, maybe because he is closeted and denying it, he may not see what we are doing is intimate and sexual, therefore it wasent considered cheating for him.  Or maybe the view of what a straight man has changed on what actions are considered "gay" and "straight" thoguhts?