Jacobah77 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 "Love is like alcohol, the more powerless and drunk we are, the more we think of ourselves as strong and smart and pretty certain about our rights on the other" And i'm not talking about he real big transcendental love, rather the passionate love. Link to comment
Scoe141 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It's an interesting quote, I personally don't think you can compare love and alcohol. Love is probably one of the greatest virtues, whereas being drunk on alcohol is a form that usually has negative consequences. I thought C.S. Lewis had a great quote about love. "This is one of the miracles of love: It gives a power of seeing through its own enchantments and yet not being disenchanted." Brian Melton summed it up with the following: "Most of the modern world defines “love” no more deeply than the flurry of emotion that accompanies infatuation. Unfortunately, this does not last and eventually we see through the idealized fantasy version of the person that we have “fallen for” and realize who they really are (who we all are)–a broken, imperfect creature with a tendency towards selfishness and failure. In that moment, if we define love on terms as shallow as infatuation, our “love” for them ceases. We become “disenchanted.” Shortly after we quit “loving” them, we begin to feel that we need not be obligated to them either. We go in search of a new “love” who will excite in us the same feelings the first one did. Relationships fall apart, marriages end in bitter divorce, and children are often the innocent victims. Society as a whole then suffers as a result of a misunderstanding by the sum of its parts." He also said, "To use another of Lewis’s famous quotes, “Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person’s ultimate good as far as it can be obtained.” It is a decision to which we choose to adhere far more than it is mere feeling. We want the best for someone we love, even in the times we may not like them very much." Link to comment
Jacobah77 Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yes exactly, hence i made the distinction between the universal love and the passionate illusionary "love" we inflict ourselves for some reasons. Brian Melton summed it well up. I think most people need passionate love to forget how lost and unable they are to make something by themselves (because of dysfunctional school, parents, society etc), they need that 'high' effect in order to be able to accept themselves, same effect you have as with alcohol. Which is silly as you should never dispise yourself (or then only for a short period of time), but only try to acknowledge your mistakes and make sure you wont make them anymore. Which can take years and years and years but is very constructive. Link to comment
mhowe Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Using "love" as a means of forgetting or not focusing on internal feelings of loss or inadequacy is a recipe for disaster. Better to heal oneself, gain confidence and be authentic and accepting of oneself ---- and then seeking "love" is a much better plan. Link to comment
Jacobah77 Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 And tv, movies, culture and most people around you are non-stop promoting that 'love' in your head. No wonder everyone falls into it at some point. Modern society is more often than not a place where people try to forget about themselves. And passion is just another way. Why not why not... Link to comment
Scoe141 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hmm... interesting concept. Never thought of that way. I would agree, in that people often use alcohol and a a warm body to forget their woes. Like mhowe said, using love as a means of forgetting something or masking it for that matter, is a recipe for disaster. Link to comment
sky09 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 And tv, movies, culture and most people around you are non-stop promoting that 'love' in your head. No wonder everyone falls into it at some point. Modern society is more often than not a place where people try to forget about themselves. And passion is just another way. Why not why not... Let's take it further. What about marriage and staying forever "chained" to one person? That was also invented by humans. There are many more examples of enculturation. We are told how to live our lives, instead of creating our own, individualistic (unique) versions of it. We go to school, graduate, buy houses, cars, get married, get kids, teach them what we were taught, then we retire, and die in retirement "homes" (in the U.S.). Rinse and repeat. I've gotten a few books from this guy: link removed Mhowe brought up a point about being authentic. He covers that area very well. Very, very informative reads, but 90% or more would not be able to grasp those concepts. How does that quote go? Love is patient, love is kind, it's unselfish, etc. Link to comment
mhowe Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Being together for life (marriage for humans) --- exists in the animal world as well. Many species mate for life. Again --- who is telling "us"? My parents did not tell me how to live my life --- they gave me the tools and opportunity to forge my own path and let me know, that while their support would be unconditional --- it was my responsibility to choose my path. I think that a lot of people abdicate choice in favor of "doing what is expected", but for the life of me, I have never found the Board of Directors of Expectations. Maybe I should be looking under "the path of least resistance". Link to comment
sky09 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Being together for life (marriage for humans) --- exists in the animal world as well. Many species mate for life. Again --- who is telling "us"? My parents did not tell me how to live my life --- they gave me the tools and opportunity to forge my own path and let me know, that while their support would be unconditional --- it was my responsibility to choose my path. Did you just compare "us" to animals? They didn't have to "tell" you, it's all around you. "Choose your own path" still involves living by society's standards of what one's life should look like (a template, if you will), though, so is it really "your" path? I am not casting stones in your garden, as I'm typing this on interenet that I very much appreciate lol Just food for thought. I think that a lot of people abdicate choice in favor of "doing what is expected", but for the life of me, I have never found the Board of Directors of Expectations. True. We are afraid to be ourselves. Link to comment
mhowe Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 One does not need to chose to live by society's standards. One may choose to live outside them...conform to them...or pick and choose at will. Who is this "we"? I am not afraid to be myself and I would venture to say neither are most of my friends or colleagues. But then, maybe like attracts like. Link to comment
sky09 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 One does not need to chose to live by society's standards. One may choose to live outside them...conform to them...or pick and choose at will. How often does this really happen? Who is this "we"? I am not afraid to be myself and I would venture to say neither are most of my friends or colleagues. But then, maybe like attracts like. We, the People. I am not talking about you, btw. Just in general. Link to comment
mhowe Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 What People...the elusive "society". How often do "we" chose...look around. Dr without Borders, missionaries, philanthropists. Folks who chose not to walk the beaten path...live in communes, start new ideas...forge new paths. If society was the be and end all...it could not evolve. Link to comment
sky09 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 What People...the elusive "society". Why elusive? It's everywhere. How often do "we" chose...look around. Dr without Borders, missionaries, philanthropists. Folks who chose not to walk the beaten path...live in communes, start new ideas...forge new paths. Out of 6 billion + people here, that would be an awfully low percentage. Besides, not every missionary or Philanthropist or a Billionaire is created equal. Who knows what actually drives those people. If society was the be and end all...it could not evolve. That's a very complex issue to fit in this forum's scope. People need structure, people need rulers and rules, people need categories to fit in - this makes lives easier, as you don't have to sit down and analyze what exactly "your" life is. Link to comment
mhowe Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 People don't need society... society needs conformists. And luckily...most people will choose the path of least resistance so Society gets its collective wish. Link to comment
sky09 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 People don't need society... society needs conformists. And luckily...most people will choose the path of least resistance so Society gets its collective wish. I like that. Link to comment
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