No Contact?

[hearthurts73]

Hi and thanks for your reply, I'm sorry, but years from now? We will most likely be in relationships with other people, who's to say if they'll be more of less fulfilling to ourselves and/or out partners at that time, but life isn't too long and I don't see myself letting go like this and waiting a few years. Assuming we are right for each other and that we do have ability to have such a healthy long term relationship, how would you suggest I proceed to discover this short term? I am doing NC as I don't feel I have any other options at the moment.

[IAmFCA]

Hi and thanks for your reply, I'm sorry, but years from now? We will most likely be in relationships with other people, who's to say if they'll be more of less fulfilling to ourselves and/or out partners at that time, but life isn't too long and I don't see myself letting go like this and waiting a few years. Assuming we are right for each other and that we do have ability to have such a healthy long term relationship, how would you suggest I proceed to discover this short term? I am doing NC as I don't feel I have any other options at the moment.

 

Your last words to her were judgmental, acerbic, and conclusive. Meanwhile, she has jumped into the dating pool while she still has the divorce ahead of her, and the need to set up a new home and new life.

 

Now is not the time. It doesn't matter how badly you want it.

 

You mentioned being self-involved. Consider this: the idea that you want it so badly, therefore there must be a way to make it happen - that idea is a function of self involvement. She has spoken in word and action. You do not have a choice about her, you have choices about you and you alone.

 

This is always the case.

 

Knowing you can control only yourself,and that she is moving on, how do you choose to spend your energy and emotion? On someone who isn't available to you, or on yourself, pursuing your own purposes?

 

Its take two. Believe this.

[hearthurts73]

I understand and you made a good point with that point showing my self involvement, it's just so hard losing one that you love, the grief can be unbearable as I'm sure you know.

 

2 things;

 

What are your thoughts about her jumping onto the online dating sites, given what she's having to face right now? Regardless of what you or I or really anyone thinks, I know and accept that I have zero control in this situation.

 

Secondly, can you suggest a way for me to leave her with better last words than the ones I've shown you from last week which have already been sent to her? I want her to at least have something better to hold onto while working through her challenges.

[IAmFCA]

I understand and you made a good point with that point showing my self involvement, it's just so hard losing one that you love, the grief can be unbearable as I'm sure you know.

 

2 things;

 

What are your thoughts about her jumping onto the online dating sites, given what she's having to face right now? Regardless of what you or I or really anyone thinks, I know and accept that I have zero control in this situation.

 

Secondly, can you suggest a way for me to leave her with better last words than the ones I've shown you from last week which have already been sent to her? I want her to at least have something better to hold onto while working through her challenges.

Good job to you for writing with your ears open.

 

With respect to her internet/dating behavior, I give significant leeway to anyone managing so much fundamental change. She may be trying to find her voice, socially, get a stronger sense of herself. We don't really know, and it may appear chaotic to others. Just know that rebuding after death and divorce can be an immense and highly disorganized process. It may be several years of iteration before she gets her dating choices in line with her goals.

 

Re #2: I suggest writing her a note. DONT SEND IT FOR A WEEK OR LONGER. Notice, when you reread it, how your message changes from day to day. Send nothing until the same message sticks for days on end. This may be months later, and it may evolve into a simple thank you note for all that you learned in the course of knowing her, or for some simple way that she inspired you.

 

In the meantime, your goal is stay quiet until you are sure you are writing from a stable place, and not a reactionary one. Each day may feel stable, until you reread what you had written and realize the degree of change.

[hearthurts73]

Thank you for this advice. Would it be ok if I send you what I wrote in private just to hear your thoughts?

[IAmFCA]

Thank you for this advice. Would it be ok if I send you what I wrote in private just to hear your thoughts?

 

 

Sure!

 

I might not respond for a while, so give me some leeway on response time.

[Katrinagirl]

I agree with you, HOWEVER, what if the reason a woman breaks up with a man is because she DOES NOT think he cares about her. Let's say he's been elusive and nonchalant, treating her casually and not like a woman he has true feelings for and cares about or whom he's "into." We hear about those situations all the time and we advise the woman to end the RL and move on.

 

So she takes our advice and breaks up with him. When the truth all along was that he DOES care very much for her, he just didn't realize he wasn't showing it. Her ending the RL sort of "woke him up" and he realizes the error of his ways and wants her back.

 

Going no contact in THAT situation would not be a good idea because it sends his ex-girlfriend the message that she was correct, he did not really care for her at all.

 

On the other hand, still continuing to contact her and letting her know you care (or fighting for her as Nate said) would be the right thing to do IMO because it lets her know he DOES care for her, which is what she needed all along.

 

Agree? Disagree?

[hearthurts73]

This is my exact situation and it's putting me in between a rock and a hard place. I know that I have a way of being very aloof and am not good at showing how much I love and care about my partner after the first 6 months or so. At least I'm now aware of this, but still, it's just part of my personality and it needs to be worked on. The pain I'm feeling now isn't just because I miss her, but also because I know the pain she's having to face from so much loss and I just want to comfort her and help alleviate it during these times. I've never loved a woman as I do her, yet why must I do NC? I was doing all the wrong things when she broke it off, begging, texting, calling non stop, asking if there was another man, etc etc etc, but then realized this isn't good and had to stop. I had to pull away and let her have her space, but yes I care for her and love her so much and it's unconditional. Why must I stay no contact ? Is this really the only way? I mean here I am I love this girl so much and would do anything just to have her back in my life so I can continue to love her and we just communicate when she may feel I'm not showing it well enough.

[3Tears]

You show her you're a good person and that you care for her when she initiates contact with you and you respond taking your time but being casual and polite.

[hearthurts73]

Right but what's to say she's going to contact me? I really don't think she will, she's a strong girl and I'm the man, shouldn't I be the one contact her? Especially given that I caused her all the grief after she broke up with me on top of all the pain and heartache she's been having to deal with in her life right now to begin with. I'm afraid the NC will just make her think that she was right and that I never did love or care for her, but just always had my own self interest.

[Katrinagirl]

Right but what's to say she's going to contact me? I really don't think she will, she's a strong girl and I'm the man, shouldn't I be the one contact her? Especially given that I caused her all the grief after she broke up with me on top of all the pain and heartache she's been having to deal with in her life right now to begin with. I'm afraid the NC will just make her think that she was right and that I never did love or care for her, but just always had my own self interest.

 

I am sorry you are hurting but you need to understand something about many women. If a man isn't treating her right, she will continue to stay UNTIL she reaches the point where she just doesn't give a cr@p anymore, THEN she leaves. If this happens, I am sorry to say this, but the guy does not stand a chance. Once a woman's feelings are gone, it's pretty impossible to get them to come back again. The thing to do is catch her BEFORE she gets to the point where she does not give a cr@p anymore. Because once she gets to THAT point, it's game over! For good usually.

 

Re your ex, it sounds like it's a done deal for her. She reached her breaking point and she no longer gives a cr@p. Your continuing to contact her, etc, in an effort to convince her you still care is a futile waste of energy. All you will succeed in doing is pushing her further away, which is the exact opposite of what you actually want to happen.

 

You need to RESPECT her decision that it's over, period. Do not question it or say things like "you're not thinking clearly" or whatever, because that is just insulting! In her mind, she's thinking "who the hell are you to tell ME how I feel (or don't feel) or that I'm not thinking clearly and my feelings (or lack thereof) aren't valid"! It's arrogant and condescending to be telling her things like that to stop that.

 

Again, I am sorry but it's over and continuing to contact her will only serve to TURN HER OFF (more than she already is) and push her even further away than she already is. The worst case scenario (and I have felt this way) is that she becomes repulsed by you. I know that sounds harsh, but my ex-ex continued to contact me after I ended it, and eventually I just felt repulsed by him.

[hearthurts73]

Ok but it sounds to me that you're projecting a lot here about yourself although I am grateful to be hearing this from a female. There are lots of things that you still need to know as to why I wasn't able to be as loving and attentive towards her and this was due to medical reasons, it was having an impact on us during our time together, but that's been fixed and it was fixed the day before she decided to leave. Regarding NC, I did all the wrong things to turn her off and push her further away, but I realized this and it's been NC for nearly 10 days now.

[IAmFCA]

Disagree.

 

If it simply were "I don't think he cares for me, so I am out of here" -- one would have that conversation before ending it. We are talking about a relationship that is important enough for someone to fight for, so conversations would have happened.

 

The example suggests we interpreted his (in this case) actions incorrectly. We are correct more often than we give ourselves credit for. "He doesn't care for me" sounds extreme, and it usually represents something more nuanced like "He cares for me, but not enough to ______" or "He cares for me, but doesn't expect to ever take the next step" or "He cares for me, but I really need someone who is THERE for me, and that just isn't him."

 

In most cases such as those cited above, the grand effort at the end serves to preserve the relationship for a little longer, but doesn't mean he loves more deeply, intends to take the next step, or over the span of years together, will choose to be there in the way that we want.

 

The grand gesture is a romantic smoke and mirror move.

 

Exceptions: there is time in between the end and the new (potential) beginning, and/or the grand gesture addresses some complaint. For example, he is late ALL the time, so after the break up he sends a note saying I will put a hot tea at your door every day at 630. Then every day at 630 he does that. Comes, drops a tea, leaves. At 630 on the nose, every day. Well - now he is demonstrating punctuality, and maybe that helps her see that he is taking the schedule seriously now. (And perhaps also stalking. that would be weird. anyway...).

 

Generally, though, this sort of grand gesture does not happen, because it would mean that we change the very habit that broke us apart. If we had wanted to change, we would have done it already.

 

For this reason, grand gesture usually = grasping at straws/resisting change/emotional manipulation/ignorance over the substance of the relationship.

[IAmFCA]

Right but what's to say she's going to contact me? I really don't think she will, she's a strong girl and I'm the man, shouldn't I be the one contact her? Especially given that I caused her all the grief after she broke up with me on top of all the pain and heartache she's been having to deal with in her life right now to begin with. I'm afraid the NC will just make her think that she was right and that I never did love or care for her, but just always had my own self interest.

 

She has boundaries. She set them, and she put you on the outside. However much you love her is only half of the equation.

 

My current example:

Last night, I ended it with my bf. He loves me; I knew that and I know it still. Our paths no longer overlap. I want to find someone with whom to mingle my life. He doesn't. Nothing to do but end it. However much he loves me doesn't solve that problem, and if he showed up at my door with a priest and a ring, I would reject him. His aversion to mingling runs deep; I wouldn't trust any grand gesture because I know how much change would have to occur from the inside out.

 

Years from now? Years bring change, perhaps, so maybe then. Not today.

 

He loves me plenty. It isn't relevant.

[IAmFCA]

Ok but it sounds to me that you're projecting a lot here about yourself although I am grateful to be hearing this from a female. There are lots of things that you still need to know as to why I wasn't able to be as loving and attentive towards her and this was due to medical reasons, it was having an impact on us during our time together, but that's been fixed and it was fixed the day before she decided to leave. Regarding NC, I did all the wrong things to turn her off and push her further away, but I realized this and it's been NC for nearly 10 days now.

 

Katrina's description is dead on.

 

Your ex doesn't have to cut you slack for your illness if she doesn't want to. She knew you were sick.

 

I have a friend who was dumped by his fiancee, because he bought the house she wanted, but did it without her. She said she couldn't trust him anymore, end of story, relationship over. To the fiancee, my friend's real estate settlement was an important occasion to share and celebrate together, whereas to my friend, it was just a business deal.

 

The fiancee was right.

 

If you cut your gf out while you were in need, you didn't offer the intimacy she expected. That is a significant issue that reaches well beyond the period of your illness.

 

It isn't an excuse. It is an indication of how people deal with one another when they are in need, and what she learned turned her off.

 

Let her go.

[hearthurts73]

She has boundaries. She set them, and she put you on the outside. However much you love her is only half of the equation.

 

My current example:

Last night, I ended it with my bf. He loves me; I knew that and I know it still. Our paths no longer overlap. I want to find someone with whom to mingle my life. He doesn't. Nothing to do but end it. However much he loves me doesn't solve that problem, and if he showed up at my door with a priest and a ring, I would reject him. His aversion to mingling runs deep; I wouldn't trust any grand gesture because I know how much change would have to occur from the inside out.

 

Years from now? Years bring change, perhaps, so maybe then. Not today.

 

He loves me plenty. It isn't relevant.

 

Ok now let's consider a medical situation my case being. On weekends during our time together I was at times bed ridden, no energy, very apathetic, was irratable etc, and she understood and worked with me through this condition, worked hard with me, but it became too much given what she herself was having to deal with, but I finally got everything squared away literally the day before she decided to end it, best analogy I can give, your lover had severe near sighted vision, during the past 6 months you literally only had 2 full days with him while he was wearing his glasses and the changes you saw were immeasurable, yet during these 6 months he couldn't wear these glaases on the weekends, your primary time together, yes it could be hard and frustrating, you worked with him to get this fixed but nothing was coming about, then finally he got glasses to wear not for just mon-fri, but for everyday! This is what happened to me, not with glaases though but this type it scenario. I'll message you in private with more detail when I have a moment.

[3Tears]

Right but what's to say she's going to contact me? I really don't think she will, she's a strong girl and I'm the man, shouldn't I be the one contact her? Especially given that I caused her all the grief after she broke up with me on top of all the pain and heartache she's been having to deal with in her life right now to begin with. I'm afraid the NC will just make her think that she was right and that I never did love or care for her, but just always had my own self interest.

 

Exactly, you're the MAN, you DON'T contact her lol pursuing this girl will make you look weak and will annoy the hell out of her.

[IAmFCA]

We are getting into why she left, which I look forward to learning about.

 

It is secondary to the main point.

 

She is an adult, she made a decision. It is now your turn to respect it.

[hearthurts73]

We are getting into why she left, which I look forward to learning about.

 

It is secondary to the main point.

 

She is an adult, she made a decision. It is now your turn to respect it.

 

And that's what I'm doing by NC, I'm respecting her decision. IThink, I'm new here and am still trying to figure out how I can message you in private if I even can

[IAmFCA]

And that's what I'm doing by NC, I'm respecting her decision. IThink, I'm new here and am still trying to figure out how I can message you in private if I even can

 

I agree, and that is why NC is the proper course.

 

I no longer remember the rules about PMs. It is pretty easy, if you click on my name it opens up my profile and there is a button on the left offering the option of sending a message. Or you pick from the drop down menu accross the top. There may be a minimum number of posts you have to post, first. There is a rules and a faq tab that may help you.

[Katrinagirl]

Ok but it sounds to me that you're projecting a lot here about yourself although I am grateful to be hearing this from a female. There are lots of things that you still need to know as to why I wasn't able to be as loving and attentive towards her and this was due to medical reasons, it was having an impact on us during our time together, but that's been fixed and it was fixed the day before she decided to leave. Regarding NC, I did all the wrong things to turn her off and push her further away, but I realized this and it's been NC for nearly 10 days now.

 

No I am not projecting, I am telling you how many (not all) women feel when faced with the same situation, myself included. Different from projecting.

 

And IThinkICan is right. You shut her out during her illness which indicates your capacity for intimacy is not on the same level as hers is. You may have learned not to shut her out when or if you become ill again (because you don't want to lose her again), but that does not change the fact you have different needs with respect to intimacy.

 

Should she agree to get back together with you, there are many many other obstacles you will face together that will test your respective comfort levels with intimacy, and if you're not on the same page (which clearly you are not), then you will always have struggles.

 

There is no wrong or right here, what's comfortable for you with respect to intimacy and how much you are willing to give of yourself is just different from hers. No one's fault, it is what it is. What's important is finding someone we jive with in this regard.

 

So she ended it, and she did the right thing. With respect to continuing to contact her, I am going to repeat what I said earlier. Keep reading it to yourself because I think it's important. Cut and paste it to your fridge if you have to! lol

 

katrinagirl wrote:

>>Again, I am sorry but it's over and continuing to contact her will only serve to TURN HER OFF (more than she already is) and push her even further away than she already is. The worst case scenario (and I have felt this way) is that she becomes repulsed by you. I know that sounds harsh, but my ex-ex continued to contact me after I ended it, and eventually I just felt repulsed by him.

 

Again, this is not me projecting. This is how most women feel when their ex (whom they broke up with) continues to contact them.

[IAmFCA]

OP, let's revisit: divorce not yet concluded, house gone, massive change in her life.

 

She is not ready for a relationship anyway.

 

She has a path she needs to pursue. It doesn't involve being responsible for a relationship. Even if she gets in one after the other, that doesn't mean she does that responsibly.

 

The process of unwinding a married life is brutal for most. There is no room for you, and there is a 95% chance she will be an unreliable companion anyway.

 

This really isn't with fighting for, even if you love her. Stand back, wait a few years, at least one, and then reach out to her to see how she is doing.

[janut1]

Totally agree with this! This has been the hardest thing I have done but I want and need this for myself too. I can't go backwards, only forward.

 

Let me tell you this, its going to be hard, real hard, incredibly hard... BUT its something that MUST be done in order to be able to do ANYTHING really, move on or reconciliation, you need to go through months of NC to be able to do either of them.

 

I am too on NC and it gets really tough at night, usually at the time we used to talk for hours... but I'm staying strong, I want and need this for myself.

 

You need to do it for yourself too.

 

Best of luck guys!

[Katrinagirl]

And that's what I'm doing by NC, I'm respecting her decision. IThink, I'm new here and am still trying to figure out how I can message you in private if I even can

 

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but the damage has already been done I'm afraid. You did not respect her decision after she ended it with you; you said yourself you continued to contact her in an effort to win her back saying things like "you're not thinking clearly," which like I said is incredibly arrogant and disrespectful. It suggests YOU know her mind and heart better than she does, which is incredibly insulting.

 

I think it's great you are going to start respecting her decision, but it's a little too late. Damage done. She's made her decision, you said your peace, she doesn't care, so there is nothing more you can do now except move on and leave her alone.

 

If you don't, and again I hate to beat a dead horse, you WILL begin to repulse her, I can almost guarantee it.

[IAmFCA]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but the damage has already been done I'm afraid. You did not respect her decision after she ended it with you; you said yourself you continued to contact her in an effort to win her back saying things like "you're not thinking clearly," which like I said is incredibly arrogant and disrespectful. It suggests YOU know her mind and heart better than she does, which is incredibly insulting.

 

I think it's great you are going to start respecting her decision, but it's a little too late. Damage done. She's made her decision, you said your peace, she doesn't care, so there is nothing more you can do now except move on and leave her alone.

 

If you don't, and again I hate to beat a dead horse, you WILL begin to repulse her, I can almost guarantee it.

 

Agree.

 

What's done is done. Now, let's reinforce the good work OP is in keeping NC.