What just happened?

[elephants]

Okay, so my head is still reeling from what happened. I don't understand what it means if it means anything at all.

 

For those not familiar with the story, my ex and I broke up because he felt like he didn't love me anymore and he had no hope that the feelings would come back. Around a month after we broke up, he gets hospitalized. He was diagnosed with Bipolar I Disorder. I found out because I broke NC and called him randomly. I was surprised when he answered and told me he was in the hospital. That was around 3 weeks ago. Next contact I made was on his birthday on June 1 but he didn't reply.

 

Anyway I wake up this morning feeling terrible because I had a nightmare about him and this other girl being in love with each other. When I woke up, I checked my phone and to my surprise there was a text from him, "Why did you call when I was in the hospital? Sorry, can we talk?" He sent it around 6:50am.

 

It was 11:00am when I woke up, so I sent a reply, "I just wanted to see how you were doing, but I didn't know you were in the hospital. Okay, what time do you want to talk?"

 

At around 1:00pm, he replies with, "Now?" So I called him. When I asked him why he wanted to talk, he just said, "Nothing... You called that time when I was in the hospital. What did you want to say?"

 

I was confused. That was 3 weeks ago, and I already said in my text that I just wanted to ask how he was. So anyway, I replied with, "Nothing. I just wanted to see how you were doing... so how are you?"

 

And then we basically just talked about our lives. He told me he's out of the hospital and back to school, but he quit our theater group because it made him depressed. I asked him why it made him depressed and he said he didn't know, it just did. And now he's doing only the things that make him feel good-- like video games. He told me his parents wanted him to skip school for a while to rest, but he didn't want to be separated from his blockmates so he refused. He said he is closer to his blockmates than ever. He told me he's still in therapy, he was hospitalized because he was suicidal and having hallucinations. He told me he's moving to a new apartment. And then told me about his new philosophies in life.

 

And then the subject of that girl I'm suspicious of comes up. He mentions her (she's a blockmate), so I ask, "How is she?" And he says she's okay. And then I tell him I've been told by someone that he's been spending a lot of time with some girl, is it this girl? And then he says yes. And I said, "Oh, for a while, I thought..." And then he said, "No, I made you a promise remember? I plan to keep it." And then I said, "I didn't think you would keep it because I made a promise too and I broke it." And he said, "Well, I'm keeping my side of the bargain." This promise we're talking about was made on the day we broke up--- he promised that out of respect to me, he wouldn't get with another girl until I've moved on, and then I promised that I will go NC on him until I've moved on so the next time we talked would be the day I can tell him I've moved on.

 

But NC was broken several times by both sides, and at first it was initiated by him. So I thought the promise didn't stand anymore. Anyway, I asked about that girl he's been spending a lot of time with, and I ask, "Do you like her?" He says, "No." I ask, "Not in that way?" He says, "No, I don't like her that way, I swear." I asked if he had been spending a lot of time with her because she has mental problems too (she has depression), and he said, "Yeah, we grew closer because we're similar. She has borderline personality disorder." And we talked about mental illnesses and philosophy, etc.

 

He also asked how I was, and I told him the truth but tried not to make it sound so sad. I told him I'm okay. Our family moved to a new house. I'm working on a project at work but after November I might be quitting. I have few friends, and I've been trying to avoid our theater group because I don't want to be asked awkward questions. I told him I still haven't really found purpose-- to which he says something like, "It's futile. Life has no purpose." And then I tell him I've been doing stuff that make me feel good but they're shallow, and he complained that I have high standards for happiness.

 

We talked about nihilism, and I told him it's depressing, and then he agreed. He gave me some philosophy terms to Google. He's a student of Philosophy, by the way.

 

In short, it was all small talk and generally upbeat. We talked for about 40 minutes then he said that his battery is dying. I asked if he wanted to end the conversation, and he said, "Kind of." And I asked if we would be talking again, and he said, "It's up to you. If you want." And I asked, "How about you, what do you want?" He said, "Nothing in particular." Then I said, "Okay, I guess let's talk again some time." He said, "Sure". And then we said goodbye.

 

I'm disturbed. I don't know if I'm just paranoid, but did he lie to me about that girl? I'm thinking, what if he does like her and he only asked to talk because he was hoping that when I called him 3 weeks ago, I had meant to say that I've moved on, and thus he's free to pursue her? He never used to lie, but we're not together anymore, so that might have changed.

 

I know maybe I shouldn't have asked about her but it's killing me inside. I've been having nightmares about it for god's sake! I just needed to know. But now I'm not sure if that got me anywhere because I still have doubts.

 

I was excited that he had asked to talk, but now I don't know what to feel anymore. Why did he want to talk?

 

EDIT:

By the way, I asked him if he's still depressed and he said he didn't know and he didn't care. But he's taking lots of meds. I don't know, but I feel like he's not as "recovered" as he seems to be.

[peacepipe]

It almost sounds like a courtesy call and if you said to him you have moved on I get the feeling he would be

starting something with this girl .

[elephants]

Should I ask him about it?

[peacepipe]

are you prepared for the answer if you do ?

 

if you said to him ...I give you my blessing to start a relationship and you do not have to honour our promise ..and he thanks you and moves on , will that give you what you need to move on also .

 

your hanging in limbo almost

[chickydoodle]

He sounds numb to me - devoid of much feeling or emotion. I dont think you can read into anything he says. I would imagine he is pre-occupied with himself and only himself at the moment.

[Misaki27]

Why are you suspicious about their "relationship"? I mean, while you were still together, did he do something to get you thinking about this?

 

Maybe you should talk to him honestly about your feelings. I know he's ill, but you have a right to move on, too. If you're really over him, it shouldn't be a problem. Don't let him leave you hanging on! Also, if you still want to get back together, tell him!

 

This is eating at you; you need to clear the air once and for all.

[elephants]

Okay, I couldn't keep it in without pulling all my hair out. So I asked him if I can call again, and he said yes. I called, and I told him, "Hey I have a question, and can I ask you to be completely honest? As in really honest?" He said, "Okay..?" and I said, "Why do you want to know why I called last time?" He said, "Ah I was curious. Actually I've been curious for a long time but it kind of slipped from my mind and I didn't remember to ask you until yesterday. I just thought it had to do with my hospitalization." And I said, "Really? Seriously, that's it? It's not because you were hoping that it was me fulfilling my part of the deal?" And he said, "No. And I really couldn't care because I was in the hospital." He said this in a tone that sounded like, "Duuuh". And then I said, "Okay. Wait... so seriously that's it?? I'm so sorry. I'm just being paranoid like I usually am. Does this mean I shouldn't have nightmares anymore?" He knows about my nightmare last night about that girl and him. He said, "Yeah." And I said, "Okay.... really?" And he said in an incredulous tone, "Yeah, what the hell?" And I said, "Okay, sorry, thank you, that's it, bye!" Then I put down the phone.

 

DID I MAKE THINGS WORSEEE??? OH NO.

 

It's so weird because both this phone call and the one before it are sooo normal. As in this is exactly how we usually talked when we were still together. It's funny because it seems like nothing really changed with our dynamic. We talked about the same things in the same way. And he was always incredulous about how paranoid I could get about everything, including not being sure if I locked the door or not even when I have no reason to think that I left it unlocked. It's funny because even 3 months after the break up, we still interact like this. But it's also sad, because our dynamic is the same but we're not together anymore.

[Misaki27]

Okay, now I agree with chickydoodle. He really doesn't seem like he wants a relationship with this girl, maybe you're just being paranoid for nothing. I suggest NC. For good.

 

Move on with your life; I now it sounds cliche. You don't need his validation to go out, have fun. You'll see, in time, you won't even care about the bargain you two made and it will sound silly. For now, keep busy and don't initiate contact with him. Good luck!

[elephants]

Why are you suspicious about their "relationship"? I mean, while you were still together, did he do something to get you thinking about this?

 

My ex was the most honest and loyal boyfriend a girl can dream of. He never gave me any doubts about his platonic relationships with girls. When he broke up with me, he told me that it wasn't for another girl and that he didn't want a relationship with anyone. It never crossed my mind to doubt his words until I spoke to my mom and she fed me this conspiracy theory.

 

My mom told me that guys don't break up with girls for no reason, and usually the reason is another girl. I insisted that it wasn't the case for us. But her words stirred my paranoia. I started looking back on the past few weeks of our relationship and the people my ex had surrounded himself with. And then I remembered this girl who my ex told me was suffering from depression, and then I started fearing that he might be emotionally attaching to her because of their similar condition. It's like I typed the girl's name in a search bar in my head and reflected on all the instances my ex mentioned her and spent time with her and I started having doubts.

 

Now, other people tell me I'm just being paranoid, that my ex isn't a liar, and he has no reason to lie because we're already broken up. They tell me that yes, he and this girl may be in a close relationship now, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's romantic. And I know that makes sense. My ex has more female friends than male friends, because he's more comfortable around women as he grew up in a family with little masculine influence. He is the only boy among four siblings, and his dad was hardly around so it was only his mom and his sisters he saw all the time while growing up.

 

Anyway, he did say to me that they're just close now because they can identify with each other due to their mental illness, but he doesn't see her that way. And I gathered from our conversation that he hasn't recovered fully yet.

 

Maybe you should talk to him honestly about your feelings. I know he's ill, but you have a right to move on, too. If you're really over him, it shouldn't be a problem. Don't let him leave you hanging on! Also, if you still want to get back together, tell him!

 

This is eating at you; you need to clear the air once and for all.

 

Well, he's not really leaving me hanging. He already made it clear when we broke up that he wants me to move on. He doesn't think his love for me will come back, even though he himself doesn't understand why the feelings disappeared so suddenly. Both the hopelessness and the disappearance of feelings are actually symptomatic of depression, but at the time of the break up, we didn't know yet that he was suffering from a mental illness.

 

I'm not really hiding my feelings from him. I think he already understands that I still love him and want to get back together even if I don't say anything. I don't want to initiate that kind of conversation because I don't want to pressure him. Not only is he ill, it's also generally a bad idea to pressure "dumpers" to have any kind of relationship talk. I've always told myself that if he knows how and where to reach me if he changes his mind.

 

About clearing the air, yeah, I want that. But what else do I need to hear to convince me that he and this girl are just friends? He already said it so many times. It's my own paranoia that won't let my mind rest. And anyway, it shouldn't matter anymore because I should just be trying to move on.

[Misaki27]

Listen, dear, I know how it feels: the paranoia, the sensation that something is there, even when it's not. What you need to hear...hmm, well I think it would be different if you were still with this guy and he would try to convince you he loves you and only you. But that's not the case.

 

He made it clear he wants you to move on. In this case, I'd say, take his advice. I don't think he'll get together with this girl; they are both struggling with problems. My opinion is he needs some space to heal and he won't get that from a new relationship. He also doesn't want you to wait for him to get better. He wants you to back off. Do it! I understand you love him, but a relationship with a bipolar is hard. I know this. My grandfather has a mild form and he's tormented my grandma all his life. She stood by him and they're still together, but it wasn't an easy life. You deserve better!

 

Perhaps after a while, he'll come back, I hear that's what bipolar people do. If you still want him then, that's fine. But for now, you need to take care of yourself and think of him as an ill person. Trust me, he didn't leave you for this girl, he left you for himself!

[elephants]

Okay, now I agree with chickydoodle. He really doesn't seem like he wants a relationship with this girl, maybe you're just being paranoid for nothing. I suggest NC. For good.

 

Move on with your life; I now it sounds cliche. You don't need his validation to go out, have fun. You'll see, in time, you won't even care about the bargain you two made and it will sound silly. For now, keep busy and don't initiate contact with him. Good luck!

 

Oh, I so try!! I've closed down my Facebook, deleted his number, avoid mutual friends! NC isn't so hard, but moving on is!!

 

I wish my stupid nightmares would stop!! I almost always dream about him. I don't know which is worse, the dreams where he and I are back together, or the dreams like last night where he is with another girl. I wake up from both types of dream with a sick feeling. I wish I can just dream about other things!!

 

I've forgotten about the silly bargain actually! I really didn't think he would take it seriously, especially since the NC part of that was broken so many times in the beginning. I've thought of telling him to just forget it, but at the same time I'm scared that if he gets into another relationship soon, I'll feel so bad and regret having said it and the regret will pile on top of my misery and it will just be even harder to move on. And anyway, it kind of sounded silly to me to call him just to say that he should forget about the deal, so I just let it be.

[elephants]

My opinion is he needs some space to heal and he won't get that from a new relationship. He also doesn't want you to wait for him to get better. He wants you to back off.

 

Trust me, he didn't leave you for this girl, he left you for himself!

 

Oh you are so spot-on! He told me that when he broke up with me, he said he needs to focus on himself, and he can't be in any kind of relationship because it's hard enough having to manage being on his own. He can't imagine how harder it will be if he has to consider someone else as well. And I believed him when he said that!!

 

I want to shut off the little voice in my brain that tells me to doubt. I want my peace of mind.

 

Perhaps after a while, he'll come back, I hear that's what bipolar people do. If you still want him then, that's fine. But for now, you need to take care of yourself and think of him as an ill person.

 

A couple of girls posted here on ENA about their own boyfriends suffering from a mental illness, and I was able to tell them what to do, and they were so thankful because it seemed like I knew so much about the topic and how to deal with mentally ill people. The truth is, I've researched so much. I also have a couple of friends in the medical field who I had been talking to intensively about this, so I really do know a lot. Even my ex, when we talked earlier, was surprised with how much I knew.

 

But why is it that I find so hard to apply what I know in my own real life?? Why is it that despite all I know about the illness, I am killing myself with doubt?

 

The part that hurt me most about our break up was how abrupt it was and what that said about the depth of his feelings for me. We broke up in March, but I am 100000% sure that our happiness in January and early February was genuine. It's not like the other break ups where the dumpers had been detaching and thinking about it for months and months. It was like a switch just flicked off, and he told me out of the blue that he didn't love me anymore. I know that's symptomatic of the illness. But I still can't have peace of mind.

 

The logical explanation is that he didn't really fall out of love and his illness is just covering up the feelings, but what if it's not the case? I feel like I lived a lie. How can his love die so quickly if he really loved me as much as he did? If he was able to fall out of love in such a short span of time, then it must mean that his love was shallow. And that hurts me so much.

[Misaki27]

I'm in med school, so I know a little about mental illnesses. Has he ever acted bipolar during your relationship? Hot and cold perhaps? Or maybe it's a new development. You said he was the sweetest boyfriend, so I don't think his love was fake. Perhaps we can't understand a mind afflicted with this kind of disease... As you said, the disease may be covering up his feelings and if that's the case, there's nothing you can do about it. Actually, there's nothing you can do even if his love was fake.

 

Of course it's hard to apply your understanding of the disease in real life. It's because your own feelings are involved. That's what you should focus on at the moment. Your own self-esteem was hurt, he said he didn't love you anymore, so to you it feels as though you did something (maybe the paranoia thing?) to deserve this. So stop putting yourself down! You couldn't have predicted this, especially since it came on so fast; you said it was like a switch and you were really happy a month before the break-up.

 

I don't know too much about the situation, but from what I've gathered, he has bipolar disorder, so he needs to learn to deal with that and you need to understand that you didn't deserve what happened and start rebuilding your confidence.

[elephants]

He sounds numb to me - devoid of much feeling or emotion. I dont think you can read into anything he says. I would imagine he is pre-occupied with himself and only himself at the moment.

 

Yeah, I agree. I don't think he has completely recovered, actually. I don't know what makes me say that because he sounded "normal". But for some reason, I feel like he's still struggling internally, though not as bad as before.

 

It just weirded me out and made me paranoid that he wanted to talk, and then only to ask what I had wanted to tell him when I called 3 weeks ago.

[elephants]

I'm in med school, so I know a little about mental illnesses. Has he ever acted bipolar during your relationship? Hot and cold perhaps? Or maybe it's a new development.

 

Yes! He had wild mood swings, but hardly ever towards me. We didn't know he was ill, but we always joked about it because he sometimes has weird behavior. We lived together so I had gotten to know his "quirks" and I even had names for them, but I never once thought for real that it could be symptoms of a disorder.

 

Like, what I had grown to call his "God mode" and "Hulk mode" are probably symptoms of his manic tendencies. I've read that even when they're in their euthymic stage, bipolar people can show symptoms of mania and depression, though it's not as bad or long-lasting as real episodes.

 

But the depression, I only saw towards the end. Though there was a point earlier in our relationship when he wanted to break up because he couldn't feel love for me anymore and he moved through life so sullenly. His friends said he looked like a zombie. Like this time, it was so sudden that I couldn't believe it. I convinced him to give it some time, and in the end, the feelings came back so we didn't break up anymore, and then he returned to his normal self.

 

You said he was the sweetest boyfriend, so I don't think his love was fake. Perhaps we can't understand a mind afflicted with this kind of disease... As you said, the disease may be covering up his feelings and if that's the case, there's nothing you can do about it. Actually, there's nothing you can do even if his love was fake.

 

Sigh. I don't think his love was fake, because you know, it really didn't seem fake. I mean, it's so impossible. It's just that the little voice in my brain is being stupid and keeps telling me to doubt.

 

Of course it's hard to apply your understanding of the disease in real life. It's because your own feelings are involved. That's what you should focus on at the moment. Your own self-esteem was hurt, he said he didn't love you anymore, so to you it feels as though you did something (maybe the paranoia thing?) to deserve this. So stop putting yourself down! You couldn't have predicted this, especially since it came on so fast; you said it was like a switch and you were really happy a month before the break-up.

 

I don't know too much about the situation, but from what I've gathered, he has bipolar disorder, so he needs to learn to deal with that and you need to understand that you didn't deserve what happened and start rebuilding your confidence.

 

I don't understand what happened either. If I really think about it, I really believe it's the illness that has made him break up with me and feel as if he doesn't love me anymore. I just feel so lost. It's like everything feels unreal...

[Donovan79]

elephants, as sad as it is, you just have to find a way to accept he's not the one for you. He's extremely into himself and his own problems, and he will never -- at least not in the next years -- be able to care about you like you want. And what's making it harder for you is that you keep beating yourself up about it. It's not that he wants someone else, it's that he's completely into himself. I went through the same thing once -- the most wonderful, beautiful, caring woman in the world tried to make it work with me when I was in deep, severe depression, and her phone calls might have just been buzzing in the wind for all I could notice them at the time.

 

He has to get over himself, fix himself, and find joy in life somehow. And you can never, ever help him do that. He has to get there himself. Maybe he won't. Maybe he will. If he does, he could possibly love someone else again. But for now, stay far away. You're only gonna get hurt more.

[elephants]

I know... I'd been trying to stay as far away as possible. I defriended him from Facebook, deactivated my own account, deleted his number, avoided mutual friends, etc. The last contact ever was that birthday greeting and then left him all alone after that.

 

I am wondering, why did he ask for a talk out of the blue, and then turn out to have nothing important to say? Look at his first message, which he sent so early in the morning, "Why did you call while I was in the hospital? Sorry, can we talk?"

 

He could have stopped with the first question if that was all he wanted to know. Why even ask for us to talk?

[elephants]

This was originally a double post, but I decided to edit it and make it a new post instead because it makes me feel uneasy to see a blank space.

 

I really have nothing to say, except maybe to ask if it is possible that he will recover his feelings for me when he gets out of his depression/mania/whatever? He's in continuous medication and therapy so I'm kind of sure he will become "normal" again sooner or later.

 

I'm just wondering, if the feelings are still there and he's just out of touch with them because of his illness, will they resurface when he gets better? Or has the experience of being depressed killed the all the remaining love?

 

 

[giraffeprint]

elephants!

 

so weird i had a dream about my ex last night for the first time since the BU, so i feel your pain. i think you got it right when you said its your own paranoia. my ex doesnt take her health conditions serious enough to get a diagnosis but i know something is wrong with her. she would slip into some depressive states, she'd have suicidal, she'd even request that i called her at night when she got home from work bc she wasnt "feeling okay" , and seemed to be unsure of her capabilities. knowing all these kind of made me want to stay with her more, and help her through these problems but i realized i couldnt. the more i was trying to help, the more stress i was adding just by being around. i dont think he broke up with you for another girl. sometimes ppl do just need time to themselves just to rebuild, as you and i should be doing now.

 

though my ex explained to me that she wants to experience dating other ppl (which is valid - we dated all of our HS yrs and some of college and are both 20 yrs old) i know that she hasnt jumped into anything yet and wont for a while. shes honestly trying to find peace with herself. i actually respect her a lot more that she has taken this route.

 

as much as you want to try to analyze it, you cant wonder if something is voiding his feelings and he'll have this amazing epiphany and come running back to you, as im hoping my ex will see that she could never be happy with me bc she is not at all happy with herself. you have to really let it go. at least for some time to elapse, and definitely refrain from initiating contact.

 

just have the attitude that whatever happens is whats supposed to happen. you cant hope and hold onto these ideas. .move on. if he does come around, then BAM, you got what you wanted. if he doesnt, then you're already in a better position than you are now.

 

 

and i hear you 100% with it being so easy to give advice but so hard to apply it to yourself. its because we arent in a state to really control our emotions. things are just far too fresh right now. give it some time before you try to make concrete observations.

[mhowe]

I'm not sure he will recover his feelings, period. Let alone his feelings for you.

 

As previous poster commented, he sounds numb ---- drugged. And he very well may be. And it takes years sometimes for the doc's to get the meds right so that the person feels functional and alive again.

 

I think you are reading too much into his return call. He wondered why you called him, period. You re-addressing the "call when you have healed"/move on promises is soooo far past where he is --- he is numb.

 

And --- so it is time to leave him to heal. And to heal yourself.

[elephants]

as much as you want to try to analyze it, you cant wonder if something is voiding his feelings and he'll have this amazing epiphany and come running back to you, as im hoping my ex will see that she could never be happy with me bc she is not at all happy with herself. you have to really let it go. at least for some time to elapse, and definitely refrain from initiating contact.

 

just have the attitude that whatever happens is whats supposed to happen. you cant hope and hold onto these ideas. .move on. if he does come around, then BAM, you got what you wanted. if he doesnt, then you're already in a better position than you are now.

 

I hear you... It's just so confusing when things like this happen. I can't help wondering why he would ask for us to talk after weeks of NC, and then have nothing to say after all. It gives me false hope that maybe he subconsciously misses me... On one hand I'm happy that he seems to not have forgotten about me, and reached out, even if it was for a stupid reason. But on the other hand, I know it's foolish so get my hopes up, because maybe for some weird reason that is not at all in tune with his personality, he truly just became very curious about why I called him 3 weeks ago.

 

I don't want to hope!! I wish someone can come up with a hope-killing pill or a machine!

[giraffeprint]

I don't want to hope!! I wish someone can come up with a hope-killing pill or a machine!

 

let me know if you find something LOL.

 

it'll be alright in time, just be patient. even consider a stricter NC for now - not responding to anything he initiates. sucks when you move a few steps forward just to get pulled back. thats my plan at this point, something i couldnt really maintain. but ignore him. it helps continue your healing and gives you a little ego boost!

[elephants]

I think you are reading too much into his return call. He wondered why you called him, period. You re-addressing the "call when you have healed"/move on promises is soooo far past where he is --- he is numb.

 

I think the reason I'm reading into it is because when I called last time, we actually talked. That is how I knew of his hospitalization. It's not like he missed the call, and got left wondering why I called. He actually picked up then and we had a conversation, so I got confused about why he's asking me again about it now. Plus there's also the fact that he completely ignored a birthday greeting I sent him 2 weeks ago.

 

It's kind of puzzling why someone would ask for a conversation with an ex they feel so guilty about dumping, and then have nothing to say after all, especially since he had been trying to avoid me or at least keep contact to a minimum for the past 2 months. My ex is God of NC, for real! So of course when he texted, "Sorry, can we talk?" out of the blue, much as I tried not to hope for anything, I became hopeful that he had something important to say.

[elephants]

even consider a stricter NC for now - not responding to anything he initiates. sucks when you move a few steps forward just to get pulled back. thats my plan at this point, something i couldnt really maintain. but ignore him. it helps continue your healing and gives you a little ego boost!

 

Oh, but I don't want to be all hot-and-cold towards him. I don't plan to initiate contact if I don't have a reason, especially not so soon after the phone call today. I don't want to be needy. But when he reaches out again, if he ever does, I think I'll respond. I don't want him to think I'm crazy-- nice and responsive today, and then all cold and distant the next. There's no more room for another unstable person between the two of us-- he already has that role!! Lol!

[mhowe]

Well, the second call was needy. I know you did it to clarify things --- but from what you have posted, he isn't clear on much himself. I don't think he is playing games -- he may not remember previous conversations.

 

Again I say --- let him heal. Heal yourself. I don't see him looking to get into any relationship in the near future. Not with you, not with anyone else.