Tough Love

[PAdreamer]

I'm the type of person who comes accross pretty wrong to people. Most people don't want to hurt their friends' feelings, so they say nice things and tell them what they want to hear. I encourage my friends, but I'm honest with them, which can sometimes be a brutal process. I have lost a lot of friends over this, and many of them have held things over my head. But I don't think it's right to lie to people to make them feel better. Perhaps I'm wrong...

 

Just curious for some opinions on this.

[lunatic]

I agree with you on sugar coating things to be nice but, you can still be nice and tell them the way it is. I think being honest is important when your dealing with friends. There is always a tactful way to tell someone the way it is.

 

People sometimes forget to think things through and put up an easy answer. If you look at my posts you will see that I am honest with everyone and sometimes I am a little harder on people that just don't get it.

 

 

Atleast that is my take on things,

 

Hubman

[avman]

Well sometimes it depends on how you say something. You can be honest without being brutal. Though I'll admit, sometimes to reach certain people - brutal is all they understand. When you've tried to make them understand in every way possible you might just have to come out and say "Look, this is the way it is."

 

I'm not saying lie to them. But try a less brutal approach first. You can always use the brutal stuff later if you have to. The fact that you say you've lost "a lot" of friends leads me to believe that maybe you might want to try softening it up a bit at first.

[PAdreamer]

Well of course, "brutal" is not the first step I go to! LOL! I always listen to what they have to say and try to figure out where they are coming from. I try to counsel them the best that I can... but sometimes people just don't listen.

[avman]

LOL well I wasn't sure. I guess sometimes you have to decide which is more important - being right, or the friendship. You have to pick your battles and figure out whats truly important. In some cases if a friend doesn't listen, its not really the end of the world. And if they aren't in any danger, well its their life so they can live in fantasyland if they so choose.

 

Other cases are more serious and need to be set straight. Things that affect you seriously or are a case of you "saving a friend from themselves" demand a tougher stance and then you have to make the tough call to stand your ground even at the risk of offending the other person.

 

Its not always completely clear what to do. And mistakes will be made. But thats why they invented the phrase "I'm sorry"

[PAdreamer]

LOL! True, true... I have to watch myself very closely sometimes. I have dealt with and overcome a LOT of my own obstacles, so now when I have friends who deal with the same stuff I want to be empathetic, but at the same time I get so frustrated because I can see my own flaws in them. Sometimes I mess up with the "tough love"... but I feel that, overall, I have good judgement in that area.

[avman]

Unfortunately there are some people who only learn by making the mistake themselves. You can tell them they are making a mistake. You can try to show them that you made it and it turned out badly. You can show them statistics of the millions of others who made the mistake. But still - they don't listen.

 

Then they make the mistake and go "Awww, why did THAT happen?"

 

Frustrating wouldn't you say?

[Ash]

One thing you can do is to certainly let your friends know how are you. Listen to them, advise them if you want, give them the views on how you think it is. But let them know that if they don't follow your advice, or they don't do the things they should, that you will still be there for them.

 

It's tough love of a sorts. But they have to be allowed to make their mistakes, and make them over and over if they must. You can let them know you are still there to pick them up afterwards.

 

The other important thing to try and remember is to never let the sun set on an argument. Be as tough as you need to be, but at the end of the day (literally if you can manage it) let them know how important they are as your friends. And if you can, give them some physical contact, or some other unmistakable cue to let them know that you care. A hug can go a long way in this regard.

 

I know I get a bit wound up occasion, and if really bothers me when I leave things on an uneasy footing. Unfortunately, most of my friends ARE too far away, at the end of the day, there's not always a chance for a hug or a handshake.

 

What avman said, I think in general it is possible to be right, and to be a friend. You don't have to let your friend know that you think they are wrong, just let them know that in your opinion, you think it should be a certain way, but that in mo way means you don't allow them the perfect right to have their own opinion, and you will certainly not like them any less for being different or not listening.

 

And if it's something they don't want to hear about in the first place, again ... tell them, but try to indicate that you are doing it for them, not for you. It can be subtle, but there is a difference. You're trying to make them into what you feel will be a better person, and if they understand it from that viewpoint, things might be easier.

 

If they simply don't want to hear, then perhaps sometimes it's best to back down, perhaps to wait until they are in a more receptive mood. And let them know once again, somehow, that you are still a friend.

[PAdreamer]

Yeah, that is something I always try to do. I have a friend that I am very upset with because I have always told him that no matter what mistakes he makes, even if I am strongly against him, he will always be able to come to me for advice or just someone to talk to. But he sits there and judges everything I do! He has actually told me that if I do things any way other than the way that he thinks they should be done, then I am in the wrong.

 

I am the type of person who needs to make my own mistakes. I take some interesting risks in life because I will not learn life lessons unless I do! People around me get very upset with me for that (ex. this "friend"). That is one area that I never struggle with when counseling my friends. I think what bothers me the most is when they go on and on about things that they don't like in their lives, and people counsel them and give some suggestions of things to try... but they never, ever try to do anything. They never try to change the things they don't like, they just complain about them.

[hardcore]

i am sorry now i am ready for your judgment. what good could ever come of not haveing the will to try.

[Day_Walker]

It is important to be honest with people. Some would say its brutal honesty but its honesty nonetheless. People do not need to live in a distorted reality, it doesnt help anybody to be nice to them and never tell them any bad news. Being overly nice and too sensitive to a person isnt going to help them instead nothing gets solved.

[Spirits Away]

You know, I know exactly where you're coming from. My advice is to just lose them and your life will improve.

[Mermaid]

Hulloooo, PA.

 

Let me share something with you.

 

I have a friend who, for years, has found herself interested in men who are totally inaccessible to her. She even left her husband for one, although the man in question didn't even know she existed. After years of putting her life on hold in the hopes that this man would fall in love with her, she gave up and shifted her attentions to a new man in a very similar situation. (I should point out that neither were married, just totally out of reach.)

 

Anyway, with the first man, I didn't do much to dissuade her, simply because I believed it was a crush that would eventually pass. And I knew she had some intimacy issues, and probably needed this man to be an outlet for her feelings without having to actually let him get close.

 

But when that one was over and she moved on to the new man... well, I started grappling with the question of whether or not I needed to say something. It had started to become obvious that she was now in a pattern.

 

So I gently broached the topic. I suggested that she keep herself open to other opportunities in the case that things with the new (inaccessible) man didn't work out; I also hoped she'd learn by example, because she knows how happy I am in my REAL relationship, and I thought maybe she'd see that it was worth the risk to try and meet met who were actually accessible to her.

 

And when she tells me about "developments" with the new guy, I listen and don't judge--but I try to never enable her by feeding into it, either. (Though, admittedly, I sometimes catch myself doing it.)

 

So, what I'm trying to say is that sometimes, as much as you wish you could knock some sense into someone's head, it's usually a bad idea to take a direct and somewhat blunt approach (the exception being if what they're doing is truly dangerous or harmful to them or anyone else). Don't pretend to go along with them if it's something you're really against--but take a neutral stance, and let them know that no matter what, you'll support them even if you can't support their decision. That way, you're not helping them do something you don't believe in, but you're not pushing them away, either.

[PAdreamer]

Hardcore, you do realize that this post wasn't about you, right? LOL! I already told you, I'm not angry at you.

[ComputerGuy]

PA, I don't think you go overboard at all....at least what I can tell personally anyway. I agree with you with the not sugar-coating something. Sometimes people need to be told bluntly and straight to the point, beating around the bush gets no where.

 

I'll just say you have been a good friend to me Kari, and as far as I'm concerned, you've never done/said anything that has hurt me in anyway, you simply help me the best you can, and I really appreciate it.

[PAdreamer]

Thank you Allan... But you're not the type of person that I feel needs any tough love. You do that for yourself. You don't need an outside party to intervene. MOST of my friends don't need tough love... Just a select few. And I also know that it isn't always my place to be the one to shoe them the tough love. Many times I just step back and let them come to me if they want, but very often I don't get too involved in their problems. I just like to be there for them.

 

Even Aaron (my boyfriend) has needed a little tough love. Luckily, with him, I didn't make too many mistakes in the way I approached those situations. But of course, he's at an age where he doesn't take stuff like that personally. I am SO glad I didn't screw THAT up!!!!!!!! LOL!