meeting with my ex very soon to talk things through... not gonna be fun

[tacs1895]

A week ago, my ex emailed me to say she's said we don't seem able to be friends and to offer to talk to clear the air. In the same email, she told me she's seeing someone new. Explained further here:

 

 

So I emailed saying I was prepared to meet, but that given that she'd been the one to suggest it that I hoped she would be able to be forthcoming. I don't have very high expectations for the conversation, which is probably safer, but hopefully it can be positive and useful in helping me move on. It gives her the chance to be more open about things than she has been up until now - it's up to her to show if she's up to that or not. It for me it's the chance to explain completely and clearly what the situation is from my perspective - because it feels to me that she doesn't really get it, and it's important to know that she understands. This bit about her understanding is important because of the fact that we see each other regularly through both professional and social things. Even if she can't really explain any more from her side, I need her to know how difficult it's been for me, and why her behaviour since breaking up hasn't been helpful either.

 

And whatever happens, however it goes, it will mark the beginning of the next stage for me - whatever that feels like, however positive or not the outcome of this conversation is, it'll feel different afterwards. And therefore this'll be a bit of a milestone for the journey onwards.

 

We've provisionally said tomorrow afternoon, she's going to let me know in the morning.

 

Dreading it, to be honest. But think it needs to happen.

[dabbledave]

Hi tacs,

 

No doubt you will feel like crap for a while afterwards, no matter what happens. But if you get off your chest what you need to, calmly, and there is no argument or fight during the meeting, I'm sure this can be the launching pad for a great leap forward.

 

Sometimes it's good to take a couple of steps back in order to leap ahead.

 

Be cool going in, stay cool during it -- heck, just be cool and happy, my friend

 

DD

[Angel Irulan]

For the time being can you just agree to be polite to each other when you must rehearse together and then simply leave each other alone? It's hard because you really can't do no contact.

 

Angel

[Eocsor]

If thats what you need to get closurre, go ahead and do it. Just be aware that any explanation she gives probably won't be that satisfying. In reality, they never usually tell you the truth about what happened, you just get shades of it.

 

As far as friends go, you can't be friends with her if you still harbor romantic feelings for her. That will never work and is just a recipe for more pain.

 

Do you think this conversation might move you towards some sort of reconcilliation? What exactly are your expectations from this?

[tacs1895]

For the time being can you just agree to be polite to each other when you must rehearse together and then simply leave each other alone? It's hard because you really can't do no contact.

 

Angel

 

Yeah, not having had enough space from her has certainly made it far harder. I've got through our time together by basically doing exactly that, being polite and nothing more. It's her that's been more pushy on the "being friends" front. So part of the conversation we have will be about explaining why I can't be friends for the time being at least, and why she's been unreasonable to expect it to be that easy for me.

 

If thats what you need to get closurre, go ahead and do it. Just be aware that any explanation she gives probably won't be that satisfying. In reality, they never usually tell you the truth about what happened, you just get shades of it.

 

As far as friends go, you can't be friends with her if you still harbor romantic feelings for her. That will never work and is just a recipe for more pain.

 

Do you think this conversation might move you towards some sort of reconcilliation? What exactly are your expectations from this?

 

I've certainly not been able to find closure, although I'm aware that it must ultimately come from myself. I'm prepared that she may not offer much more of a satisfying explanation - but then she must also be understand that if she can't offer an explanation, then it's also unreasonable to expect me to "just be friends". This is giving her the opportunity to be more open than she has been. It's up to her whether she steps up to that, if she doesn't then I won't be surprised, if she does, then that is a positive gesture which would earn some of my respect for her back.

 

Yes, I do have still romantic feelings and therefore know that, for now at least, I can't be friends. And again, she shouldn't be surprised to hear that that's how I feel.

 

I'm not going into the conversation with any hopes of it leading to reconciliation. If there is a positive side to hearing she's with someone else, it's that it helps me give up on holding out or hoping for reconciliation. So that's not my motivation. If anything, I now feel freer to say certain things, things I'd held back from saying previously perhaps because of not wanting to push her away and damage reconciliation hopes. Now that my hopes are dashed, I can actually say those things. My reasons for saying them are not in order to move towards reconciliation, but to make it absolutely clear to her what the present situation is, so that she can handle it as sensitively as she can, and so that I can move on. So my expectations for this conversation are not reconciliation-related, but about helping me to get stuff off my chest in a constructive way, and to help moving on. It's not going to be easy or fun, but if it involves one step backward in order to take two forward, then it'll be worth it.

[Eocsor]

Well, if it helps you move towards getting closure and acceptance it's a positive move even if it will hurt like heck. As far as being friends, you have to do whats best foir you at this stage and her feelings should not even enter into it. She may continue to to and pursue the friendship despite what you say, so then the ball is in your court and you will have to take steps to cut her out of your life as much as possible.

 

For me at least, the idea of being friends with the ex was absolutely undoable. I had no desire to further hurt myself by watching her as she moved farther away from us and on to someone else. I can't even fathom what having to have contact with her would be like so you have my sympathy. Best of luck with this.

[octour]

I'm in the same boat as you as far as closure goes, tacs. My ex of 3.5 years broke up with me for somebody else and married the guy not even 2 months after our breakup. I haven't seen or spoken to her in a few weeks which was actually before she got married. She completely abandoned me and all I am left with are a million questions. Closure is just something I don't think I will ever get. And even if I did speak to her or bump into her, I wouldn't believe a word that she said. I am dealing with this as if she has died. It hurts just the same. I won't get answers, I won't get closure. My acceptance for who she really is and what she did to me is enough for me to be thankful that I didn't marry her myself. I in no way want to be involved with a person who is capable of doing this to another. Are you doing this for closure to move on or are you hoping for an RC? Be honest with yourself.

[rapunzel]

Ok, ugh. I'm going to offer a contrary view. Look at Angel Irulan's post. Are you sure you need to do this? The thing is: while she's with someone else, anything you say could be viewed by her in a pitiful way. That is the risk. Do you really need to set yourself up for that? For being pitied? Because that is where this is headed. Seriously, think long and hard about having this meeting. The more you pour out to her your feelings and disappointment and sadness, the more she becomes firmly lodged in the pedestal of the "one-up". It sucks to have to be silent and vent here and to your friends but venting to her at this point is *not* in your best interests. If you think it is definitely going to make yourself feel better, then go ahead but you still have time to cancel and say it is not necessary. Moving on has nothing to do with her, NOTHING. She has clearly moved on. Your moving on is ALL about you and does not include having a heart to heart discussion with her when she has a new man in her life. There is no reason to involve HER in YOUR moving on. It just makes you look weak. It sucks but that's the way it is. If you don't mind making yourself vulnerable to her at this point, then go for it. I'm sorry if this sounds like "tough love" but that's just the way I feel tonight. My motto is: "never let 'em see you sweat". I had a similar type discussion with my ex (at his initiation, I was not prepared) and felt like utter crap for months. When it is impossible for you to disappear, you have to suck it up and act like you are fine and that the ex doesn't bother you. Having this type of conversation (that will get you nowhere) just solidifies in her mind that she still has a big hold on you. Ask yourself: do you really need her to know that at this point? Just some food for thought.

 

Hang in there and sorry again for the tough love...

[tacs1895]

Well, if it helps you move towards getting closure and acceptance it's a positive move even if it will hurt like heck. As far as being friends, you have to do whats best foir you at this stage and her feelings should not even enter into it. She may continue to to and pursue the friendship despite what you say, so then the ball is in your court and you will have to take steps to cut her out of your life as much as possible.

 

For me at least, the idea of being friends with the ex was absolutely undoable. I had no desire to further hurt myself by watching her as she moved farther away from us and on to someone else. I can't even fathom what having to have contact with her would be like so you have my sympathy. Best of luck with this.

 

Thanks, Eocsor. I'm grateful for your understanding and sympathy. If I'm totally honest, I sometimes find the tone of some of your posts a bit harsh (hope you don't mind me saying!), so for you to offer your sympathy and luck for this situation is much appreciated. Yes, it's very hard indeed, but it is the next step.

 

Ok, ugh. I'm going to offer a contrary view. Look at Angel Irulan's post. Are you sure you need to do this? The thing is: while she's with someone else, anything you say could be viewed by her in a pitiful way. That is the risk. Do you really need to set yourself up for that? For being pitied? Because that is where this is headed. Seriously, think long and hard about having this meeting. The more you pour out to her your feelings and disappointment and sadness, the more she becomes firmly lodged in the pedestal of the "one-up". It sucks to have to be silent and vent here and to your friends but venting to her at this point is *not* in your best interests. If you think it is definitely going to make yourself feel better, then go ahead but you still have time to cancel and say it is not necessary. Moving on has nothing to do with her, NOTHING. She has clearly moved on. Your moving on is ALL about you and does not include having a heart to heart discussion with her when she has a new man in her life. There is no reason to involve HER in YOUR moving on. It just makes you look weak. It sucks but that's the way it is. If you don't mind making yourself vulnerable to her at this point, then go for it. I'm sorry if this sounds like "tough love" but that's just the way I feel tonight. My motto is: "never let 'em see you sweat". I had a similar type discussion with my ex (at his initiation, I was not prepared) and felt like utter crap for months. When it is impossible for you to disappear, you have to suck it up and act like you are fine and that the ex doesn't bother you. Having this type of conversation (that will get you nowhere) just solidifies in her mind that she still has a big hold on you. Ask yourself: do you really need her to know that at this point? Just some food for thought.

 

Hang in there and sorry again for the tough love...

 

Thanks for the thoughts, Rapunzel. I admit I didn't enjoy reading it (!) but it did make me think. I am still going to go ahead with the conversation, for several reasons. One is that being polite to her in rehearsals, and nothing more, is essentially what has brought me to this situation. I had resolved basically not to ask her any more, because it was important to me that it should come from her. Well, to be fair to her, she has got in touch to offer to clear the air (even if done in this insensitive context of telling me about her new relationship also). Given that her making some kind of gesture was something I wanted, I feel I should give her the opportunity to follow through. Which is why, in agreeing to meet, I made it clear that I hoped she would be forthcoming about things. So I'm sticking to giving her the opportunity to be open, while at the same time keeping my expectations low so that I won't be hurt if it doesn't happen. Also, because there are things I wish to explain to her, because what is important to me is to know that she properly understands the situation and that she at times has behaved inappropriately. There are things I've held back from saying, because part of me was still holding out for reconciliation. I wish now to get them off my chest. Even if she is unable to offer much, it will be a closure of sorts for me to say these things, because I have held on to them for too long. What has been hard for me these past months, in addition to having to get over the relationship ending, has been the sense of her not realising the pain she caused, or why her attitude has been unfair. It's like I don't want to let her get away without realising the reality of the situation, it's letting her off too easily.

 

No need to apologize for the "tough love" tone, I know it's well-meant, even if I didn't agree entirely with your points, it still helps me clarify my own thoughts. Of course I don't want to be pitied or seen as pathetic, although at the same time I don't have a problem with being honest that I'm still in a vulnerable position. You're right to warn me not to vent or go on and on about how much I miss her, but I think there is a middle ground between that and not having the conversation at all. It's reasonable for me to say that being friends would still be too confusing for me at this stage and that she shouldn't expect it, and to explain my reasons why. I agree that I don't want to be pitied, but then again, what difference does it make what she thinks? As you say, me moving on is about myself, not her, so whether she feels pity, guilt, or whatever, is kind of irrelevant. What I think will help me move on, is the knowledge that she knows for sure how I feel and can't pretend to deny her part in it any more, and the relief I will get from knowing that she knows. As for how she responds, that remains to be seen, but however it changes the situation or not, it will be the next stage in getting over it.

[rapunzel]

Well said, tacs. I was in a cantankerous mood last night. It sounds like this is the right thing to do, for you. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!

[tacs1895]

Thanks, rapunzel. Absolutely dreading it to be honest. But think it will be for the best in the long run to get this done with....

[loulou37]

Thanks, rapunzel. Absolutely dreading it to be honest. But think it will be for the best in the long run to get this done with....

 

Come back asap and let us know the outcome please!!!

 

Hope you found what you were looking for.

 

loulou x

[tacs1895]

Met her today, we talked for three hours.

 

It was worthwhile. Also very difficult, saddening, and exhausting.

 

I'll post in some more detail tomorrow, right now I'm too tired.

 

Sigh.

[chitown9]

Met her today, we talked for three hours.

 

It was worthwhile. Also very difficult, saddening, and exhausting.

 

I'll post in some more detail tomorrow, right now I'm too tired.

 

Sigh.

 

Yeah, I bet you are all spent out after the meeting. The important thing is: did you learn anything helpful to you?......

[tacs1895]

So, here's a very long account of what happened. (Thanks in advance if you get through it all!)

 

It was incredibly difficult and tiring to go through, but I believe it was worthwhile. I wouldn't say it's necessarily helped to make things easier, but it has made a few things clearer, which is helpful. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but in this particular situation I think it needed to be done. We basically talked about three things - how the situation has been for the past few months, the relationship that we had, and the current situation.

 

Even though we see each other regularly this is the first proper conversation we've had in five months. My frustration during this time has been her seeming insensitivity towards me, her superficial friendliness, and her unwillingness to have a proper discussion. I explained all this to her. She also explained her side of it, which was useful to hear, which was that because I'd been distant during our rehearsals together she thought I didn't want to talk. She was waiting for a sign of light friendliness from me, before she was to initiate anything. So I think that a lesson that we've learned from that is that not communicating has led to each of us making incorrect assumptions about the other. I thought she was glossing over things and wanting it all to be fine without facing up to things, and she thought I wanted her to keep away, when I really wanted openness. She was very upset at the thought that I'd found her to be insensitive, and said she'd always been trying to be as sensitive as possible. I never really doubted that those were her intentions. Even now I still maintain that to a certain extent, she had been taking the easy option in not ever offering to talk - I had been clear about what would help me, and it wasn't as if I'd been completely unfriendly the whole time. I explained that if ever I was distant in rehearsals, it was because I was there to concentrate on the music and was trying only to focus on that. So I still believe she could have been a bit braver and offered more during that time. However, I didn't go on at her about it. Having talked about it with her and been super clear, I no longer feel angry about it. While not exactly apologetic, she admitted she realised that some things she had done had been insensitive and that she could have handled it better. I don't need to hold a grudge about it, what is important is that she knows NOW, and can behave appropriately.

 

As for the relationship, we did clarify a few things. There was nothing revelatory, it was mostly stuff that I'd basically figured out for myself, but it made a difference to hear some of it coming from her and having it confirmed. She was hesitant to want to explain, because of not wanting to sound mean or cause me to beat myself up about things. Sometimes it took me to suggest something that I had suspected, and then for her to confirm or correct what I had been thinking. But basically I was right in that it boiled to down to a lack of attraction that had actually been there for a very long time. She admitted to having not been brave enough to admit it, and that she had therefore maybe stayed too long in the relationship. She also explained more about what it was that she wasn't getting from me - generally a bit more outgoingness, carefreeness. She also found me to be a bit too much of a 'thinker' and not always very present due to being stuck inside my head a bit. I was ok with hearing these things, because they are all things that I had already worked out that were the problem for her, and what's more, they are all the things that I've always wanted to 'improve' for myself in any case, and have been working on all of this last year. We also talked about the little things that both of us could have handled better and communicated about. So all of this, as I say, wasn't revelatory news, but was good to clarify and discuss. I explained that I still have some regret over how it might have been different if we'd been able to express all these things better while still together. There we agreed to disagree. She believes that ultimately it wouldn't have made any difference, that each of us was just at a certain place in ourselves during that time that meant it would never have been possible. I disagree, in that I believe it may have made a difference, and that we'll just never know. I then said that I still believed, in an 'abstract' sense, independent of time and circumstance, that if we both resolved our own issues then we would actually be very good together, even though I accepted that the reality of the real world is different. She said she didn't disagree.

 

Which then left us with how to proceed from here. Again, I was very honest, I believe there's no point in faking being ok with everything, so I explained everything very clearly. That I still need space from her, that my feelings about the relationship are still there, and are therefore an obstacle to friendship when I still basically want more. We also talked a bit about her new relationship, and I explained that that is also a barrier to friendship, because of their history of friendship while we were together, and because I'd suspected right from when we split up that they would get together. (That surprised her.) She is aware of her own history of always getting together with her closest male friend (that's how it was with us), and said she could understand how it might look she was just doing the same again, but maintained that she had given it a lot of serious thought. All I can do is take her word for it. I have a lot of lingering thoughts about them, but I didn't ask them, because ultimately it's none of my business. I don't really know what their relationship is based on but basically it's not do with me and I must leave her to it. Nonetheless, it's hard to accept that they're together - now that I know more fully the reasons for our breakup, I find it hard that she's with him, because I don't really see that he offers a lot of those things. Although it's true that he is basically a confident outgoing person, which is obviously attractive. There are things that she and I had which I thought were priorities for her, which I can't imagine her getting from him. But as I say, after all this time, I can't know for sure what she wants, I don't know him as well as she does, and I can't know what their relationship is based on. These thoughts are still going round my head, but I drew the line at expressing them to her so as not to sound bitter or pathetic (instead I just vent them here....). But I was clear in calmly explaining that them being together is uncomfortable for me, and that it presents an obstacle to friendship, which I believe was perfectly reasonable of me to express. She understood.

 

We also had a useful practical discussion of what gigs and rehearsals we have coming up, and that we each might not be around the whole time which will allow me to have some space and to focus on the music. Basically I still have to see her quite often between now and December, because our group has a lot on. From mid-December she's away for a few weeks over Christmas. Then she is back for a couple of weeks in January, and then she is going travelling in the new year. This is a double edged sword - she's going to Brazil for two months, which is a trip that we had planned to make together and never did, and I'm very sad that she's going and that we never did it together. But nonetheless it will be a time when she's away and I won't have to face seeing her. If I avoid seeing her in January, (might mean sacrificing a couple of things, but might be worth it), then I could potentially go for almost four months of not having to see her - mid-December to April. I'm not looking forward to seeing her come back from Brazil, from the trip we should have made together, but by then it will be April, five months from now, and I will be in a much better state myself (hopefully!!), and perhaps it won't hurt so much. So it's useful to know her plans, so that I can plan for myself a bit too. (I'd actually already been thinking along those lines in any case, even before we agreed to meet.) We've agreed that while we're still working together, we'll keep it cordial, but also occasionally check up on each other just to see how the situation is, and to avoid the same miscommunication arising that has happened recently. She is keen to be friends, although admitted she didn't really know what that would be. She suggested maybe we could have the occasional coffee to catch up, maybe before Christmas, or just before she goes away. I said I wasn't promising anything. We agreed that the ideal place we'd like to reach is of some kind of friendship where the awkwardness has gone, but I warned her that while I'd like to get there, she should also be prepared for the possibility that it may never happen. I may reach a place of being able to be friends, but it may also be that I choose to detach from that chapter of my life completely. But we know that whatever happens, we know that we still respect and care for each other and that that won't ever change, and agreed that if that weren't the case we wouldn't have been sat there having that ridiculously long and emotional conversation. So while it is still enormously difficult, our intentions are both good, even if we don't know how the actual situation will work out.

 

I did also talk to her about the positive new things I've been doing since we've been apart, I think it was good to touch on those so as not to seem like I'm still completely consumed by her. One of those things is the new art therapy course I've just started studying on. It's the most positive thing in my life at the moment, new learning, new people, etc. I started to tell her a bit about it, but before I'd got very far I stopped myself, and explained that I didn't really want to talk too much about it, because it was a part of my new life now and that I wanted to keep it like that. I hadn't planned to do that, it just suddenly came out, but I was pleased with it - that even while sitting with her, I was able to draw a boundary between past and present. She understood and was fine with it, and said she was happy for me to be doing it, and I just said that maybe another day I'll tell her about it but not for now. So I was pleased that I was able to protect that thing for myself. And I think it was also good that after talking so openly and honestly, I was able to have one little element of mystery that I could maintain.

 

I managed to end the meeting in a light-hearted way. As she stood up to leave, I solemnly held out my hand to shake. She looked a bit surprised at my formal and un-intimate gesture, at which point I allowed myself to smile and gave her a hug. I think it was a good (nonchalant?) way to finish

 

So - I must move on from here. It's been a pretty turbulent couple of weeks, since finding out about her new relationship, and then building up to having this conversation. It was saddening, painful, exhausting, yet still helpful and constructive and I'm glad we did it because I think we needed to. At the same time, it doesn't actually change my feelings for her, and obviously I have to continue to let go. A big part of me is still resisting that, I still believe that we could be (could have been... still could be...) great together, I still miss her a lot. I feel less hurt, but just as sad. I do feel hurt by her being in a new relationship. So I must continue getting on with things and rebuilding my life, and for the time being, that will still mean needing to keep my distance from her as much as possible. But I guess the difference is that I feel I've been able to let go of the bitterness that was starting to accumulate. I'm not angry, just still sad. Very sad. But now the only person who can solve that is me, by being sensible and keeping my distance from her, and knowing that she understands; and by accepting the present, getting on with my life, and making it the best I can.

 

Thanks so much if you read all this. It's been useful just to write it out and clarify what's happened. And of course I'd really appreciate any positive thoughts you have to offer.

[tacs1895]

No responses, think I probably wrote too much for anyone to read through... can't blame you! I guess I'd probably get more responses if I was a bit less lengthy, I'm not the most concise at the best of times, but sometimes it's good to write just to get it all out.

[rapunzel]

I just read most of it. Sigh, sounded like a real whopper of a conversation. If you feel better about some things, then it's a good thing. Yeah, letting go completely now is the challenge. What she said doesn't sound all that encouraging to me so I would try to not hold onto hope as it will prevent you from really moving on. For me, I'm pretty sure if will take falling in love with someone else. That hasn't happened, and it may not happen (I'm older than you with less time and opportunity). I've pretty much accepted it - sure, it would be nice to feel those feelings for someone else but there are people living in squalor in parts of the world, with not enough food or shelter, and I'm living a pretty good damn comfortable life, albeit alone. Life is what you make of it, and heartbreak can be a setback certainly but life is still out there remaining to be lived. I promise, someday you will look back, after you've had another relationship, or two...and this chapter in your life will be just a memory. Perhaps a bittersweet one, but a memory nonetheless....hang in there!

[tacs1895]

Thanks rapunzel. It was worth it because it helped a bit to clear things up, and let go of some of the anger and bitterness. I've still got a long way to go, because I still pine for her. At the next rehearsal it was hard again, and it'll continue to be like that for the next few weeks, up until December, because I'm committed to the group's activities until then. At that point, depending how it goes up til then, I'm going to make an effort to completely reduce my contact with her. A combination of me sacrificing a few minor gigs, plus her being away briefly over Christmas and then for a while in the new year, will mean that I can have a period of three or four months without having to see her at all. When she returns I can re-evaluate the situation. I'm won't look forward to seeing her return from Brazil, because of the painful associations, but by then it will be April, I'll see how much I've improved by that stage, and decide what to do from there.

 

As for you, I just wanted to say don't give up hope on finding love again. In the meantime, it's good that you can appreciate and be grateful for your life and the good things in it, accept what you've got and not be desperate about finding someone. But there are plenty of examples of people finding love later in life, and there's no reason why that shouldn't be you too.