Iakasot Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This. I don't understand how people don't realize that men have it harder. Women do hold most of the cards in dating, and even in marriage and divorce. Link to comment
Deciduous Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This. I don't understand how people don't realize that men have it harder. Women do hold most of the cards in dating, and even in marriage and divorce. That may be slighly true in dating. But if it is true through-out the marriage and subsequent divorce then you really aren't standing up for yourself or demonstrating healthy boundaries. Link to comment
ProtestTheHero Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Here's the thing: Women hold all the cards that you as a man choose to give them. Asking out a woman is not hard. Here's why: If she rejects me, I don't care. If she agrees to a first date, I don't go crazy inside with expectations -- I need to get to know her better before there's any degree of emotional investment. If, after a first date, she believes we're not compatible and isn't interested in a second date, I don't care. If I am in a situation where I am far more wealthy than a woman and marriage is something we're considering, she's signing a prenup. If she refuses then I bail. I don't care that women get hit on all the time. What does that have to do with me or my situation? If shy guys have it harder than shy women, then they need to realize that they must take a more proactive role to put themselves in better situations. If they can't do that, THEY HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT THEMSELVES. Stop dodging accountability, stop blaming other people, and stop the competition about who has it harder. None of that means anything if you're perfectly content to forfeit all control over your life. If you're miserable, convincing other people that you have it harder is a pretty awful consolation prize. Don't be content with that. Link to comment
Iakasot Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 That may be slighly true in dating. But if it is true through-out the marriage and subsequent divorce then you really aren't standing up for yourself or demonstrating healthy boundaries.It's difficult to stand up for oneself when men are presumed guilty in divorce court. A woman can call the police, hit herself and say you abused her, and the man is automatically arrested. How isn't that having most of the cards. Just because most women don't use this, doesn't mean they don't have most of the power. It's like how most women don't choose to have sex on the first date, but they have the power to, men don't. I don't think you understand the full dynamic of how men are disadvantaged in marriage. An average woman gains something like 20k in a divorce, and average man loses 60k, that obviously means that lawyers get on average 40k from a divorce, so they're the real winners. Link to comment
Deciduous Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ikasot - If it behoves you to 'be a victim' 'think like a victim' and 'behave like a victim', then you have every right to do so. If it is proving a successful strategy in regards to forming healthy relationship with women, then stick with it. Why not? Go with what brings the results you are seeking. All the best to u. I'm sure we'll talk again. Deci xxx Link to comment
imsuperman Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is true too. If you're a man and approach the situation with no investment in the outcome, then you'll save yourself a lot of grief. That is in some ways the most difficult part for guys though, due to the fact that we make way too big a deal of everything going in. It's just due to over-thinking and imaginary situations. As I_Speak_Jive so eloquently put it in another forum: "She farts. Am just sayin'. " Link to comment
Iakasot Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ikasot - If it behoves you to 'be a victim' 'think like a victim' and 'behave like a victim', then you have every right to do so. If it is proving a successful strategy in regards to forming healthy relationship with women, then stick with it. Why not? Go with what brings the results you are seeking. All the best to u. I'm sure we'll talk again. Deci xxx The kind of language you just used is known among mens' rights activists as "male shaming language". It's something along the lines of "if you keep saying things like that you won't get laid", what you said was the more passive aggressive version of that. That's not cool. You realize the things I'm giving are FACTS, it's not about being the victim or not. Don't you try to help women when they speak out against injustices, and try to empathize with them? Why do you have to try to shame men when they do the same? There's something in psychology known as the "Just World Phenomenon", in essence it states that people who are favored in life tend to think that the world is just and that people get what they deserve. It would only make sense that a person who holds more cards in dating and marriage would think dating and marriage are fair. Link to comment
ProtestTheHero Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The financial and fraudulent abuse claims have merit, but as a guy I disagree with the dating points. Link to comment
Vincent Ruiz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 To the TC, not at all. For him to even say that is sad. It's no wonder why he is shy. He is not assertive enough to act like a man and is not assertive enough to persue you. Link to comment
Blue Spiral Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The kind of language you just used is known among mens' rights activists as "male shaming language". It's something along the lines of "if you keep saying things like that you won't get laid", what you said was the more passive aggressive version of that. That's not cool. You realize the things I'm giving are FACTS, it's not about being the victim or not. Amen to that. Shaming language is used all accross the spectrum, sadly. Link to comment
Deciduous Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The kind of language you just used is known among mens' rights activists as "male shaming language". It's something along the lines of "if you keep saying things like that you won't get laid", Whoops! Think we've both wandered off topic. My understanding is you identify yourself as a victim in a deeply uneven society, in which Women hold the majority of power and Men have very little to none at all. One where the equal rights of Men are routinuly ignored or subverted in favour of women. If I have misunderstood your position - and you do not identify yourself as a victim at all - then I wholeheartedly apologise. So we don't unfairly hijack GivingGirl's thread, I would be happy to speak further with you through PMs. Hope that's cleared the air. All the best Decixxx Link to comment
Iakasot Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Whoops! Think we've both wandered off topic. My understanding is you identify yourself as a victim in a deeply uneven society, in which Women hold the majority of power and Men have very little to none at all. One where the equal rights of Men are routinuly ignored or subverted in favour of women. If I have misunderstood your position - and you do not identify yourself as a victim at all - then I wholeheartedly apologise. So we don't unfairly hijack GivingGirl's thread, I would be happy to speak further with you through PMs. Hope that's cleared the air. All the best Decixxx All I did was say that OP's guy friend is right, and "here's why", would you please refrain from using the "poisoning the well" logical fallacy to try and discredit me? This isn't about me, it's about dating in general, and what guys' options are vs girls'. I was saying females hold more cards than males and gave reasons...That's not off-topic. Link to comment
banal Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Women don't hold all the cards, but they hold the most important one--relative scarcity. Find a reasonably-attractive woman, and you'll find a ton of guys competing to be with her. She has to pick and choose. Find a reasonably-attractive man, and you won't find a ton of girls competing to be with him. Potential boyfriend candidates are a dime a dozen; hot women are pursued by men up and down the socioeconomic strata. If a woman wants the average guy, she's competing with...no one in particular. If a guy wants an attractive woman, he's competing with married doctors, college sweethearts, high-ranking co-workers, elite players and PUAs, etc. Finding a hot woman that isn't locked down or bombarded by superior options is virtually impossible. Quoting for the God's truth. Link to comment
givinggirl Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Personally, I've never felt like I've held all the cards in any dating situation. Maybe that's because I'm shy or because I enter dating with the mindset of the potential of it being great and real. I don't date just to have a good time, I want to find that person whom I have a great connection with. I want something true, not just some made up game. I go into it wanting to develop something worth full trust, feeling 100% comfortable with another person, I put myself out there, I am vulnerable and I give my all. Whereas, the men I've dated don't, but they sure do want me to think they are. As much as I've fought becoming jaded, I am. I've been lied to and mistreated so many times, that I find myself questioning everything. I used to be able to just leave it in the past and give the next guy a clean slate, but that is becoming very hard for me to do anymore. I don't like it. I was a little put off by a guy telling me I hold all the cards because I am female. It's not an accurate assessment. It's like someone else said, it's the person who cares the least that is in control. Link to comment
delicous Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Women do not hold the cards, neither do most men...Some high rolers may hold the cards as far as , sex, money and rock n roll, but NO ONE can MAKE you do anything you do not desire to do or MAKE you desire to do those things at which they want you to do whether it's, Being Committed and being serious, Sexual encounters, like anal...Changing friends/jobs/careers/schools/the state you live in...ONLY YOU hold that power and no one will ever really MAKE you do that you do not wish to do ...GOD gave us free will.... However, HOWEVER...Women definetly can have the upper hand if the man lacks what the women has whether that be money, emotional maturity, indepenence... I believe an independent women usually can have the upper hand over a lot of different men who lack that same decipline... Pretty much all I have to say about that...Good question though... And the comment the guy made....Id just take it as a "Flirtatious gesture" VS. "You are in control." You might be... as far as if you want to give him sex or not, a chance or not, but you do not have the upper hand as far as what he does or doesn't do or who else he says the same exact things to... I have been told "your my dream girl." Other men, have said " I want to marry you." There has been a lot of weird ass comments before, I once had a one night stand where the man told me "I love you." I just met him a day before at the beach, lol... So yeah, I didn't read into it...But the brain is a tricky thing and there are things us woman can do to strongly pursue the feeling of power, but in all actuality, nobody really holds all the cards...Its just a saying... Link to comment
redhood Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Women do not hold the cards, neither do most men...I have been told "your my dream girl." Other men, have said " I want to marry you." There has been a lot of weird ass comments before, I once had a one night stand where the man told me "I love you." I just met him a day before at the beach, lol... u talk abt free will, dont care about women holding the cards because u already are getting sex,dates anytime u want.u have guys calling u dream girl,asking u to marry them=gives u more confidence=free will.its like a rich person saying he doesnt care about money....they dont care abt money because they already have it. really tired of reading comments from women about how they dont hold all the cards but r getting marriage proposals,one nights stands left n right. Link to comment
Lonewing Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The only reason women do not hold all the cards, though, is because they have specifically weeded those cards out of their lives and dropped them altogether. Link to comment
delicous Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 redhood: u talk abt free will, dont care about women holding the cards because u already are getting sex,dates anytime u want.u have guys calling u dream girl,asking u to marry them=gives u more confidence=free will.its like a rich person saying he doesnt care about money....they dont care abt money because they already have it. really tired of reading comments from women about how they dont hold all the cards but r getting marriage proposals,one nights stands left n right. I was saying men have said that to me in the past as far as marriage proposals, it was a jokingly drunk guy, not a forsure serious matter, sorry to confuse you...The one night stands have stopped since Ive been trying to settle down, however I was just mentioning that if a man says "I love you" while hes having sex with you, it doesn't mean that he really does, it may just means he loves how your making him feel at the momen... Marriage proposals can be the same thing, if you think about it, just a man pondering and pondering until one day he realized he doesnt want any other man to have you therefore, proposes... But if you look at the STATISTICS marriages seem to not be lasting as long as long as they use to... Its not like a rich person with its money, for me at least..There are few of many men who show interests in me unless Im out at a club or somewhere where there are lots of men ....Other wise, there is not many men who want me or whatever...Just giving an example of what has happened to me that may make certain women think they hold the cards, but trully they do not. Link to comment
CMS Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Women are the selectors, they select who they want to spend time with, but they do not hold all the cards, I hold all the cards, all the cards that makes her want to spend time with me. The man who thinks women hold all the cards is a weak man and should not deserve your (ladies') time. Link to comment
imsuperman Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Like Blue Spiral said way back, I don't think women hold all the cards, but they hold the most important one because they are the selectors in the majority of cases. Link to comment
Lonewing Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Women are the selectors, they select who they want to spend time with, but they do not hold all the cards, I hold all the cards, all the cards that makes her want to spend time with me. The man who thinks women hold all the cards is a weak man and should not deserve your (ladies') time. Thus speaks a man who has not yet been taken to the cleaners by a woman...Just wait...You hold all the cards because you're not playing with her deck... Link to comment
CMS Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Thus speaks a man who has not yet been taken to the cleaners by a woman...Just wait...You hold all the cards because you're not playing with her deck... Nah I had my fair share of relationships, my last one ended with my ex dumped me because I gave her all the cards after 1 year mark, so I am holding all the cards from now on, Link to comment
Deciduous Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Nah I had my fair share of relationships, my last one ended with my ex dumped me because I gave her all the cards after 1 year mark, so I am holding all the cards from now on, Oh dear. Romance isn't supposed to be a blood sport. Clutching onto your cards for dear life, and watching your back, does not make for a joyous or relaxing union. You sound like a gladiator facing the lions. Terrifying. That's not a relationship. It's a "Grudge Match". The trick is to "Love your partner, but love yourself more. Always." Stand up. Honour your own dignity. Respect the other person's position. Should the two prove to be imcompatible...run as fast as your little legs can carry you. Deci Link to comment
CMS Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Oh dear. Romance isn't supposed to be a blood sport. Clutching onto your cards for dear life, and watching your back, does not make for a joyous or relaxing union. You sound like a gladiator facing the lions. Terrifying. That's not a relationship. It's a "Grudge Match". The trick is to "Love your partner, but love yourself more. Always." Stand up. Honour your own dignity. Respect the other person's position. Should the two prove to be imcompatible...run as fast as your little legs can carry you. Deci And when I said by me holding all the card, I meant not putting her ahead of me, not lose myself in trying to make her happy, love myself, not being needy, those kind of cards Link to comment
redhood Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Oh dear. Romance isn't supposed to be a blood sport. Clutching onto your cards for dear life, and watching your back, does not make for a joyous or relaxing union. You sound like a gladiator facing the lions. Terrifying. That's not a relationship. It's a "Grudge Match". The trick is to "Love your partner, but love yourself more. Always." Stand up. Honour your own dignity. Respect the other person's position. Should the two prove to be imcompatible...run as fast as your little legs can carry you. Deci u can get a guy anytime u want.u dont have a problem getting laid or getting a date.u dont have to work on urself to get a date.ur a woman.its like reading about a prince william who always has women at his feet. or the late jfk jr, who doesnt have to say anything n women want to marry him. later on prince william is giving advice on women,but he never had to approach one,deal with that many rejections.each woman is a celebrity to a man.majority of the men dont want to say something stupid so they never approach.its like women who love robert pattinson.robert pattinson can talk in a diff language n still get a date and sex.just like women today can talk a foregin language n end up with a date.if a white girl wants to date a black guy,asian guy,indian guy, she will have no problem getting a date.if a indian guys wants to date a black girl or white or spanish...he will face more rejection n may never get a date.women have it all n than they try to give advice to people who dont have it.its like a rich man who drinks clean water everyday n never had any issues....but when he hears about people who dont have clean drinking water, he says there must be something wrong with those people Link to comment
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