no way out from abusive arguments

[blue20]

lately i've been having arguments with my boyfriend of three years that are destroying everything i worked for in our relationship. we disagree about a small things and it turns into a huge fight. he doesn't throw things around or hits me, but he raises his voice and repeats how i don't understand him and how my points are stupid. even when he makes me cry or hurts me in some way he continues with claiming he's right. he won't apologise because he thinks i'm too sensitive and it's easy to make me cry. that is not correct. i'm a strong person and don't cry. at least never in front of no one, not even alone, only when he does something.

i told him how i don't think he loves me or cares for me truly or a lot if he doesn't care if he makes me cry. he says it's not true but he doesn't think he did anything wrong, and go on about that making the situation worse. i always try to talk very calmly with him to resolve our problem, which is acctually a disagreement, but he claims he won't let himself be blinded by love and how i manipulate him under the name of love. i can't believe he thinks so. i try to choose my words carefully with him which makes our debates longer, which he hates. so he said to just say what i have, to just get it out. when i said i though he was immature and insensitive he took it as a personal attack and at the end i needed to apologise for offending him, when HE firstly hurt me. he can't accept how we are so different in some views. he takes it personal insted of tolerate it and make a compromise. so it's easy for me to apologise. only he can't even see he was wrong, when he really was, and all he thinks about and says to me, all covered in tears and trying to think rational in such a tense sitaution, is he repeats he thinks he was not wrong. so i think it's cruel he can't even show a bit emphaty for me in such condition. i told him he could think one of us is right, him mostly always of course, but there is just one truth and one reality which is me crying most likely obviously from something he did. i think he should take his part of responsibilty too. he used to run away during the fight and leave me alone for days. i somehow succeded in changing this pattern but it still feels like he's finding a way out. what from (really)?

 

i am trying to change his mean reactions, not him. he claims it's hard for him to try to act as he knows i want him to, and his effort is barely seen. but it's not hard at all for me to change myself if i have to, to make him happy and be myself a better person. he doesn't think he's being controling and all this talk from me or on forum like this it's **** for him. i think it has to do with the way he grew up and he doesn't want to be polite when we discuss something. he went to a psychiatrist but gave up after one session. so i don't know does he have any mental problem. any form of counseling for us, because of it, is out of consideration. he treats me great in front of his friends or my family, and mostly alone, so people couldn't believe me he can be so mean. but i know he told his friends i'm a monster and i'm driving him nuts.

 

he says he's not seeing breakup as a option with me but i see his words are not matching his action. we have a very nice time except when we fight. the only problem is his reaction filled with hate. he says i'm driving him mad. while i feel HE's playing with me. i have a lot of friends who adore me and i know i'm a very nice person, so i don't know what is the problem with him. he claims he has no expectations from me. so when i said i had none from him too, but he got all upset how come. we had many difficulties in the past and i can't even remember a part of our history to use it in a way to improve our current situation. he thinks i'm nagging. i'm really not. he's ashamed of what he did and he even said he would never forgive me if i told anyone about that. he did change for better but right now we hit the wall where i see his communication skills are staying poor, being both 30 years old and i wonder should i breakup. he's sick of me acting like a mother teresa at one moment, and in another one he calls me his angel. is there a way for us to have a healthy relationship?

[savignon]

Does he recognize that there's a problem and does he accept responsibility for his part in things? Both partners have to be willing to ackowledge, take responsibility and be willing to work towards change. In addition, you both need to let the other person leave an argument with dignity (no name calling, no dismissing of the other person).

Those are important elements for a healthy and balanced relationship.

[Hermes]

is there a way for us to have a healthy realtionship?

 

It isn't looking good, Blue. What do you think?

 

You say:

 

and all he thinks about and says to me, all covered in tears and trying to think rational in such a tense sitaution, is he repeats he thinks he was not wrong. so i think it's cruel he can't even show a bit emphaty for me in such condition

 

The key word in there is "empathy" and if he doesn't have it, well, he won't.

 

i think it has to do with the way he grew up and he doesn't want to be polite when we discuss something. he went to a psychiatrist but gave up after one session. so i don't know does he have any mental problem.

 

Yes, by the sounds of it he does have a problem, butcannot or will not admit it. It is typical of people like this.

 

What is there in this relationship for you, except tears and pain? Think of yourself. You can do better.

 

There is a book, often cited on this forum:

Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, by Beverly Engel. Worth looking at.

 

All the best

H

[Puckdog27]

The root word of relationship is relate. He refuse to relate to your feelings and emotions and does not express a desire to seek compromise. He only wants to be right.

 

I dont see his attitude towards conflict changing on its own. It takes either intense soul searching or a life altering event for someone to change their way of thinking.

 

The thing that you need to be aware of is, as you state, "you are trying to change him". You cant change anyone. They can only change themselves, and it seldom happens quickly. His giving up therapy after one session is proof of his unwillingness to change. I used to have similiar reactions to conflict as your boyfriend, and yes it was a product of my growing years. My parents handled their conflict with loud words, and my mother has since stated that she sees how it effected me. It was only after noticing my trend in failed relationships that I determined a change on my part was required. It took along time to get to that understanding, and still longer to fully change, as well as a lot of consciousness on my part when engaged in conflict. I'm afraid that due to your boyfriends unwillingness to recognize his issue, it will be the same long road for him, unless he finds a partner that is willing to eat his behaviour.

 

Just some words of advice. My current GF spent 17 years with a man like this. Everyone thought he was great, but at home he was a monster. It made it harder for her to leave the marriage because she worried she would come out looking for the quitter and the bad person. Because of that she suffered what you are suffering for 17 years. I know her ex because they have children and I see and hear the things he STILL says to her after the divorce. He never changed because he self justifies, just as your guy does. I hope you dont get stick like this like she did. If you ask her now, she will tell you she wishes she had left years ago and even being alone would have been better than being emotionally abused.

[TearsofFate]

Okay, I am a girl, but I want to tell you what I honestly think. I'm basing this off of my own relationships I've had with people.

 

He said that you are driving him nuts. He said that you are making him go mad. You said you cry a lot. You said you try and fix the problem and the disagreements.

 

Alright, so you need to heavily consider something. He might be acting irrational and mean when you are crying but to be honest I think he is overwhelmed with you. This is what is causing him to be so heartless. You want him to change his attitude problem so badly that you probably make him feel bad, tell him what he's doing wrong, why you are right, why he is wrong, and this is a form of lecturing.

 

In the heat of an argument lecturing will make it worse, even if you have the best intentions. He will most likely yell at you no matter what if he feels lectured or accused of something.

 

Another thing is it sounds like you have certain expectations out of him that can't be met. You want him to care when you cry. You want him to stop being so mean. You want him to realize that he is hurting you. Right?

 

This is what helped me out whenever this happened to me. Don't expect anything out of him. If he hurts you simply say "Alright I understand. I really don't want to fight." and then walk away. Never let the battle keep going. Just walk away.

 

Next up, agree with him on everything even if you think it's wrong. Seriously, this will cause him to sympathize with you. If he is yelling at you and screaming and telling his friends you are a monster. Simply say "You're right, I guess I have been a bit of a monster." but don't start crying. Smile and give him a hug and then change the subject to something more cheerful, or walk away.

 

If you agree to whatever it is he is getting so mad about, he will eventually apologize and give you the guy you miss so much again. He will cool off, see more clearly and in the long run, this will save your relationship. Don't expect it to happen right away. I had to keep up my agreeing with my ex for 1 and a half months until he finally turned into the big sweetie I fell in love with in the first place.

 

It will require that you swallow your pride, but in the end he'll be a lot more pleasant and awesome to be around again. He will also eventually swallow his pride too.

 

Also, don't bring up arguements or things that bother you. Chances are, whatever bothers you will go away once he starts to to calm down. Believe me it works.

 

Cheers

[Puckdog27]

^^^^^ So your telling her she should become acceptive of his behaviour and not have a say ever, even put her ownself away to not irriate him so that he may not become enraged?

 

There's a word for a person who does that. Victim

[TearsofFate]

^^^^^ So your telling her she should become acceptive of his behaviour and not have a say ever, even put her ownself away to not irriate him so that he may not become enraged?

 

There's a word for a person who does that. Victim

 

I'm giving her a way out and a possible chance at saving the relationship. Was he always abusive? Or just recently? If it's just recently, things can go back to normal.

 

If he's always been abusive than that's a different story and she should get away from him. It's her call. But things can't keep going how they are going right now can they?

 

Something needs to happen and I was simply suggesting something that has worked for me. It was a matter of me and my bf just going through a phase of misunderstanding and high tensions. I took inituative to save us from further arguing and it calmed us both down and we stayed happy for a few more years until we have to move apart from jobs.

[Puckdog27]

I'm giving her a way out and a possible chance at saving the relationship. Was he always abusive? Or just recently? If it's just recently, things can go back to normal.

 

If he's always been abusive than that's a different story and she should get away from him. It's her call. But things can't keep going how they are going right now can they?

 

Something needs to happen and I was simply suggesting something that has worked for me. It was a matter of me and my bf just going through a phase of misunderstanding and high tensions. I took inituative to save us from further arguing and it calmed us both down and we stayed happy for a few more years until we have to move apart from jobs.

 

What needs to happen is he needs to actually grow up and realize that being in a relationship is a choice, and part of that choice includes compromise, not always being right, accepting that your partner has indiviual rights as well and that means sometimes having to adjust to an even ground and accept their needs as well.

 

Have you wondered if the reason you and your guy get along so well is because he has everything he wants, while you have forfeited your own individual rights in the relationship to appease him? The only misunderstandings (from what it seems) in your own relationship was you werent giving him what he wanted at all times. Once you did submit to always allowing him his way, the tension went with it because he had his way all the time, so no need to fight for it.

 

If that works for you, thats great, but I find that works for very few, and I dont think it will work for the OP or she wouldnt be here asking.

[TearsofFate]

He does need to grow up. You can't force someone to grow up though. I think if the OP were to say "You need to grow up!" won't really make anything better. I think any more fighting will make things worse. If I was in a bad mood and someone told me to grow up I'm pretty sure I wouldn't listen to them and think they were the ones needing to grow up. I'd feel attacked.

 

If the person didn't attack me with words I'd feel more at ease. I'm not saying that the OP should do his every little bidding. LOL. That would be awful.

 

My relationship was two-way. I only used the "agreeing" method for a short while to help things cool off. I gave him what he wanted (no more fighting), and he gave me what I wanted (love and apologies). He never asked for anything from me...or anything like that. I still had my say in things as well. It just takes time for it to go back that way.

 

I'm in no way saying that the OP should agree to his every way and become a victim. I just meant, she should just agree to his side of the story so he cools off. Unless he is a complete jerk he will eventually calm down.

 

I'm sure she wouldn't have dated him for 3 whole years if he was always like this. If he was always like this...then that's a different story.

[Puckdog27]

I think its best to hear the OPs comments on if she can eat her opinions and just deal with his behavior, while avoiding the possibility of conflict, in the hopes that he will change.

[blue20]

i'm thankful to both and all of you trying to help. puckdog27 i think you're trying to protect me from very personal reasons and a common sense. you nailed it down when you said my boyfriend can't relate to me. it's funny my boyfriend actualy says it' me who can't relate to him. but the fact that he's already changed many things and now he sees himself as a fool back then being an old self, means a lot to me. even if is he refusing a therapy, he showed he can do it in some way. so i'm not just hoping, i know he can do it, only if it gets to his head somehow.

 

i don't think i'm trying to change his core personality. i'm just not accepting behaviour that could turn into abuse. it's a demand of respect. it's not like i'm constantly lecturing him, only when we have a nasty fight. i simply don't think he'a acting healthy. i could and will give him more space during to cool off. it doesn't mean i'm losing a part of me as a individual with rights. i think he feels that way. i don't think i'm having unreasonable expectations from him. i just want him to treat me like a person, to talk civilized. to at least treat me kind like people do to a regular friend. being his girlfriend, i could ask for a lot more. but i wouldn't be ashamed if this turned out as a failed relationship because i know i did my best.

 

so tearsoffate gave me an interesting advice as an alternative to breakup. breakup is so final. if you're with someone for a long time, you're obviously having a nice time and like that person. so i think she said it good, with a bit of reverse psychology though. i don't think it would mean playing a victim. not in this case. it can't hurt if i try, right?

if any of you have anything else or more to say to me, please do, i'd appreciate it.

[Puckdog27]

What you may be preparing to do is place yourself on the abuse cycle, where there is a honeymoon phase, then a flair up, a remorse and cool down phase and back to the honeymoon. The honeymoon makes it seem like things are changing for the better.

 

Give it a try, that's all you can do. But what's the benchmark for if its successful? He only flairs up once a month instead of twice? I think you will need to set a goal for what you see as a change or success in his behaviour otherwise you will just repeat the cycle.

[Hermes]

Blue:

 

You say:

 

i just want him to treat me like a person, to talk civilized. to at least treat me kind like people do to a regular friend.

 

Blue, there some who are unable to treat the "other" like a person, in a civilized fashion. And it gets worse as time goes on.

 

The thing is, you can't fix him, and it isn't your job either to do that. Trying to "fix" is a losing game, and only enables the abuser more.

 

Take care

H

[blue20]

i am thinking about breakup. i've told him too. he said he understood that things weren't becoming better and it would be probably good if we had a mutual breakup. maybe i could find someone better.

what is strange to me is that he took it so calmly, like it was on his mind too for a long time or like he has no feelings for me.

we talked and figured out our arguments weren't happening since the beginning. it has been like this last couple of months. so i wonder is it fixable. i don't wanna regret if i let him go.

[Hermes]

or like he has no feelings for me.

 

Your instinct is correct, Blue. He doesn't.

 

Yes, at the outset all looks rosy (that is how they operate). The "real" person then appears-- in due course.

 

H

[TearsofFate]

i am thinking about breakup. i've told him too. he said he understood that things weren't becoming better and it would be probably good if we had a mutual breakup. maybe i could find someone better.

what is strange to me is that he took it so calmly, like it was on his mind too for a long time or like he has no feelings for me.

we talked and figured out our arguments weren't happening since the beginning. it has been like this last couple of months. so i wonder is it fixable. i don't wanna regret if i let him go.

 

This is what I suspected. Usually when someone no longer cares about the "issues" then they probably don't care about the break up either. That is why I suggested the other tactic. It would calm him down and let him second think something like a break up.

 

Nobody wants to stay in a relationship where there is always fighting. Maybe he thinks there is no way out. Maybe he doesn't understand what the problem is either. Explaining that there is a problem will only make it worse at this point.

 

The only way to fix the relationship is by what I said earlier. It will take patience and a lot of strength.

 

Try flipping it around. Say that you were with a guy who was always upset with you because he thought you didn't care enough. Pretend he was always testing to see if you did care and he got mad if you "failed the test." Pretend that it lasted for months until you just didn't care about him anymore. Then pretend he suggested "break up" to you. Wouldn't you agree?

 

I was with a guy like this once. He always told me about problems in the relationship all the time. He was just always sad and always angry if I wasn't being "good enough" for him. At first I cared and tried to be better for him. I really did care. I put a lot of effort into fixing us. It wasn't enough, he was just still so miserable all the time. After a while I started to see him as a different person and not the cute, loving, fun guy I fell in love with. I eventually felt insulted and angry because he was just always crying and getting mad for months on end. He suggested break up and I said okay. Not because I didn't love him, but because I just couldn't handle it anymore and I thought he'd be better off with someone who did make him happy.

 

I'm not saying that any of what is going on is your fault or anything. I'm just trying to flip the view points so then you don't think that he doesn't care or doesn't love you. It will talk a lot of understanding, patience and forced happiness if you want things to fall back to normal.

 

It's up to you whether he's worth the trouble though! =)

 

I just don't want you to do anything you regret because it seems like you care about this relationship. There is "better" out there as well. There always is. So it really is up to you.

 

Best of luck to you.

[TearsofFate]

Are there really even issues? Or do you just miss his love and caring? If that's all it is, try agreeing with what he says, and not bringing up anything stressful.

 

Go on some calming, relaxing, fun dates and give him time to see things clearly again. The best remedy to arguments is to not argue about anything at all.

 

Don't expect huge changes either. Give it time.

[blue20]

TearsofFate, i am thankful to everyone helping, but you have so interesting advices and actually gave me possible solutions, instead of obvious and the easiest ones- break up, let go, find another. if nothing else, you gave me a different perspective, to step into his shoes. it's really not about taking sides here, so i'm glad you help me to understand our situation and him a little bit better. i'll still have to think a lot and sleep over on my decisions before i act on anything. i don't even miss his loving and caring, he is sweet to me. the only issue is his negative attitude when we have an argument.

 

do you think he resents me for maybe pushing him into something more than he is? do you think it's more over in his head than in mine? could it turned out if i decided to try with him again, he just walks away from me one day because of what i did. i'm not saying it's my fault, but you know what i mean here. how can i tell what is on his mind now without talking, fixing, focusing on problems? should i avoid it and just have fun like we have? but when to have a serious talk without ruining everything again?

[1guygirl]

very good post

[TearsofFate]

do you think he resents me for maybe pushing him into something more than he is? do you think it's more over in his head than in mine? could it turned out if i decided to try with him again, he just walks away from me one day because of what i did. i'm not saying it's my fault, but you know what i mean here. how can i tell what is on his mind now without talking, fixing, focusing on problems? should i avoid it and just have fun like we have? but when to have a serious talk without ruining everything again?

 

What exactly are you guys arguing about? I think he might have an negative attitude towards the arguments because it seems they have been going on for quite some time. If arguments persist even with friends, brothers, sisters, and relationships as well, all sorts of negative emotions can fester in otherwise strong bonds.

 

Take me and my brother for example. We are really close and never ever argue. We started arguing about 4 months ago. It spiraled and it got up to the point where we both said "I don't ever want to see you again!" To us, this was serious. We had never said such things. We are best friends and highly respectful of each other and live together too. So the arguments really warped our personalities.

 

So, I got terrified. I thought "Omg, what if my own brother turns his back on me? After 24 years of being best friends, we're never going to see each other again!? Is he even worth it, to say something so harsh?" So I felt, insulted, afraid .....and it felt like a breakup! Even though it was only my brother.

 

So, these fears you have of him leaving you are normal but it does no good to dwell on fear. Did you know that if you fear about something, it will most likely happen? All the fear creates negative emotions and arguments that further make your fear happen.

 

What I did with my brother, is I stopped arguing all together with him. Even if he said something a bit mean, or scary (in terms of him moving out), I brushed it off, watched movies with him....laughed. I was really "chill" around him for about 2 months. I made him laugh, I offered to go places with him and then I decided to bring up the subject "you know, you really are important to me, and I don't want us to fall apart. I just care about you and that's why I was upset way back when. Do you want to keep our apartment for another year together?"

 

And he understood...and he agreed, apologized we are on better terms than ever. He even treats me to food sometimes! This is new. =D

 

See, sometimes people just need breaks. I don't mean a "break up". But just a break, where you just let it go for a while. Don't fear anything, that will make it worse. Just relax, be kind (don't be overly kind), just treat him normally ...treat him like a best friend. Try not to think about emotions, break ups and all that.

 

Most importantly, if anything does bother you, let it go. For now. I would go out for walks by the lake, exercize, listen to music...and things like that when I felt the need to "argue" something. I'm not saying people shouldn't argue. Arguing is normal, but sometimes it can get out of hand and destroy relationships...

 

Don't worry about what might be going on in his head. As long as you can try to avoid arguments, I'm sure it will fill up with good things about you. Just give it time.

 

I can relate to you, because I used to "suck" at bringing up problems. I'm not saying you do, because I don't know you personally, =) but whenever I brought up a "serious issue" I'd get yelled at.

 

I never knew why? It was the way I brought it up. I "attacked" people whenever I brought up an issue, so this made them defensive. It doesn't matter if you say it nicely or not, people know when they are being attacked. So now I joke. I will poke fun, and smile...and tease a bit, if I want someone to pick up their garbage or something. It works and people listen because it's light hearted humor instead of a threatening insult.

 

Maybe in a few months, once you feel the time is right, bring up a problem you wanted to discuss. Most guys hate seriousness and emotional problems....trust me. Even I hate emotional problems after a while, they can be very draining. Hope I helped. Sorry if I typed so much.

[Puckdog27]

Tears of fate - I wonder how long you would have gone on hiding you're opinions and feelings to appease things if you hadnt had to break up because he moved. Do you really feel you could do that forever? You need to assume that she will need to tread lightly with him forever. Like I said, if she is willing to put herself away (which Im not sure she would be here asking if she could) then your solution is valid. BUT once she wants to have her say, this problem will rear its ugly head again.

 

No one is telling the OP to just break up (at least I havent) just to find away to have him understand that she has a right to her feelings and opinions in the relationship

[Hermes]

the easiest ones- break up, let go, find another

 

Actually, Blue, these are by no means the easiest options. On the contrary.

However, you will do as you see fit, IMO.

But try not to waste too much of your time.

 

All the best

H

[TearsofFate]

Tears of fate - I wonder how long you would have gone on hiding you're opinions and feelings to appease things if you hadnt had to break up because he moved. Do you really feel you could do that forever? You need to assume that she will need to tread lightly with him forever. Like I said, if she is willing to put herself away (which Im not sure she would be here asking if she could) then your solution is valid. BUT once she wants to have her say, this problem will rear its ugly head again.

 

No one is telling the OP to just break up (at least I havent) just to find away to have him understand that she has a right to her feelings and opinions in the relationship

 

I guess it depends how bad the situation is. I was willing to put up with the things I had a problem with until things calmed down. Then I brought them up later and they were solved. My problems had to do with "little things" to be honest. If they are bigger problems like abuse or drugs or something like that, then I wouldn't just put up with it forever and ever.

 

I know that nobody is perfect and sometimes you just have to put up with certain things about people. It really all depends on the situation. I know I have problems (I'm shy in groups of people, I spend too much time alone in my apartment drawing/writing). I know my friends need to put up with these aspects.

 

I understand what you are saying. It wouldn't be right to stay in a relationship if there are big problems that bother you forever. I can also see what you are saying when you say that it is abusive of her boyfriend. 3 years is along time for a relationship. If the problems were bothering her for 3 years then well yeah,...I would suggest finding someone more suitable to her needs. If it was only the last few months then I suggest to see what options there are before making a move like a break up.