Ex sort of came back, now don't know what to think!!!!!!

[shockeddismayed]

Craigblitz,

 

That is some wise, sage advice.

 

But that doesn't make it easy to follow.

 

Remember leftalone, there is strength in numbers. We are all behind you. Keep it up, you are doing GREAT!

 

Keep telling yourself that it IS possible to leave the door open while living for yourself. Keep YOU first and him in second place.

 

Take pride in the fact that you have the strength to give him this patience. It doesn't feel that way all the time, but you will be proud at the end of this either way. If he comes back, it is b/c you were able to look past his confusion in a very giving way that required significant self confidence. If he doesn't, you know that you behaved in a classy manner... you gave him the benefit of the doubt, and the fact that he decided not to come back shows you that you deserve much better.

 

You are a bridgebuilder and a peacemaker... the world could use more people like that. Walk tall.

[leftalone]

So the ex returns from his two week trip the day after tomorrow. I've taken the advice of a lot of you and spent the last two weeks thinking A LOT - about everything that happened in our relationship, and everything that's happened since the break-up. I've been able to work through a lot of the hurt and shock that came with how much his actions during and after the break-up emotionally just levelled me, concluding that he handled things the only way he knew how to make what he was doing manageable to him (in other words, just totally turn the other cheek and reinvent his life so as not to realize how drastically he had just changed it). So, a lot of that hurt/anger has softened for me.

 

The thing is, though, after three and a half months, my patience is wearing really thin. I just can't live my life much longer with him being the unknown variable…I've gone out several times with a guy that I find really nice and fun (although definitely not wanting to get serious with anyone), but the experience has at least reminded me that my being in a romantic scenario in the future with someone besides my ex IS possible. And, because so much time has passed, I have to admit to myself that, having no other choice, I don't wake up missing him as painfully and acutely as I did for so long, and whole chunks of my day go by where I don't think of him. Whether I wanted it to or not, the agony of not having him in my life has eased enormously, and so I absolutely can't let him waver his way back in just to leave me again.

 

So, to sum up, when he returns from his trip I will wait for him to contact me, but any actions, behavior, gestures etc. he makes are going to have to be pretty assertive and firm. Four months of trying "single life" on, and reflecting on what went wrong and if the foundation of the relationship was strong and its problems are workable, has to breed some kind of result. I won't pose any ultimatums or anything like that, but the way I see it is that the person you love and who loves you is so often a reflection of how you see yourself - in other words, when you don't feel so hot about yourself, you can look to the perspective of your loved one and see yourself through their eyes, etc., which is part of what is so wonderful about being in a secure relationship. Knowing that he is so uncertain about how he feels about me, or that his feelings for me are hot one minute and cold the next, is turning out to be harder than just setting my feet firmly on a path of being by myself and frankly is damaging to my self esteem.

 

I'm certain that I love him and that our relationship was worth struggling through some problems for. If he needed time to just freak out and jump ship, that to me is perfectly acceptable and normal - settling down with someone is SCARY, especially when problems arise that seem so emotionally draining and hard to deal with. Maybe every relationship needs that panic time to confirm that what you have together is what you really want…but allowing him this has cost me so much heartache and time and pain, not to mention 13 pounds and nearly my sanity, and so I feel that I have paid my 'pound of flesh' so to speak, and he's really going to have to be certain about me when he returns.

 

I went away with friends this weekend for the 4th of July where a bunch of us share a beach house, and besides having a wonderful time with them all just relaxing and getting away, I had a wonderful conversation with my closest guy friend who went through a break-up that was longer than the relationship (which was 3 yrs.). It was this constant on and off thing, where she'd come back around and he'd hold his breath and bite his tongue, and didn't care about getting any answers so long as he had her around, but then she'd change her mind again and leave…anyway, he told me that he regrets every letting it get past the first few months of uncertainty and that the three years of back and forth basically ruined the three wonderful years they originally had together in his memory. That is exactly what I don't want, and what I will not let happen…

 

He came back and left once before, and that almost wrecked me. So now the old saying goes - "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

[leftalone]

So the ex has been back from his trip for ten days. We saw each other three days last week - even had an actual date to the movies, etc. By Friday, my nerves were starting to get the best of me, though. I guess I still have trouble not understanding why we don't just pick up where we left off, and be as in contact as we used to be - daily phone calls, seeing each other almost every day, etc. So, I still very vulnerable that way, like if I don't hear from him for two days I start to think that his intentions are not to work on getting back together, he just is stringing me along.

 

Bottom line is, i hate feeling so insecure with or for anyone. For example, we were supposed to go to the Motor Vehicles department together on Friday afternoon to renew drivers licenses - he wrote me at work at noon to say he didn't feel like going, and it was like my panic instinct kicked in...i ended up telling him I was going to stop by, with the intent of getting a lot of things off my chest, but once I got there I took a deep breath and bit my tongue. i'm glad I did, because we ended up having a great afternoon together - got some lunch, took a nap and then he suggested going for ice cream. Plus, his friend came over to pick him up when we were leaving, and the friend was not at all surprised to see me there (as if the ex had mentioned we were seeing each other again). So it's like when we're together, things are wonderful, but as soon as we leave each other, all the questions come back to haunt me, and I just want to hear from him right away.

 

I left him early Friday evening and took the train down to the beach house I share with friends - I knew he had plans for most of the weekend, but I called him on Saturday at 6ish to see if he had plans for that night b/c I was considering coming back to the city early. He was very short with me on the phone, businesslike - he was with a few friends at a music festival and told me that it was going to continue into the evening. So I got off the phone quickly and nicely - but then, I haven't heard from him since - not even a "how was your weekend" phone call. And yesterday was a rainy Sunday, when we were both just hanging around the neighborhood (we live just ten blocks from each other). In the old days, we would have absolutely spent a day like that together at his place, watching TV or shopping online...I just kept thinking "why hasn't he called to hang out"

 

So, the positive thing is our week together last week was really good, well spaced, and all fun times...plus, we have so-called plans to go out to dinner this week. The bad side is that I haven't heard from him since we parted ways Friday night...Is it just me being a nervous mess? Do I need to have some patience and stop being in such an anxious rush? Or am I right to expect some reassurance on his part, either with words or actions???? I feel so trapped, because I don't feel yet like i can talk to him about these questions without majorly risking pushing him away.

 

For those who read my post on Fletch's thread on Friday - I didn't end up doing the ultimatum (obviously), and I've cooled off some from my frustration - but I spent most of hte weekend almost boiling over, with my finger on the phone on the verge of totally blowing my top...

 

please someone on the outside of this analyze his actions since his return...I need one of you wise observers to tell me to just CHILL OUT, it's all in my head, or to tell me that I'm right on the money to expect a lot more than what he's doing...

[RayKay]

I don't have much advice, but I just wanted to say I know EXACTLY how you feel right now.

 

I last saw my ex on Wednesday evening, when we went to a race together and we had a really fun time talking and laughing. He even made some advances to kiss me - not surprising as I was playing it cool We talked about our upcoming trip (6 days until we go!). When we are together, it is like we are together, and it is wonderful. Even in between he will email me sometimes and chat.

 

However, that night he left for a trip a couple provinces away for a big biking event with a friend, and the last couple days have been rough. It has been the longest EITHER of us have ever gone without talking to one another since we met, and I am driving myself nuts wondering what he is up to for some reason, and wondering if he misses me AT ALL. A couple days before he left he did say he loves me, and that he misses me, and that this is not about finding someone else at all, but now that I don't talk to him for a few days, I end up thinking too much. Worrying that things have changed for him since he left, that he decided he did not miss me at all, and so on. Who knows. I will let him contact me first, but I tell you it is driving me crazy, and I wonder if it is even half as hard for him sometimes. I know he is good at bottling up his emotions, but I sometimes wonder if he will ever unbottle them.

 

At the same time, I am hoping the space will have given him more time to think, but then I also know he will of been busy (and maybe too busy ) to think of me at all anyway. I have not contacted him at all, and as I said, he can call/email me first when he gets back. But I only wish it was as hard for him as it was for me this past couple days.

[shockeddismayed]

Hmmm.....

 

Wise man is a bit of a stretch... but I will give it a go.

 

1) In a secure, mature, long-term relationship what you are saying is not only right... it is a necessity. You ABSOLUTELY need to have that conversation. And you absolutely need to deal with the tough issues... what happened to break you up, how you are going to communicate better, how you are going to deal with both of your hurt feelings (remember, he may have some too), etc.

 

2) All of that said, you guys are not a mature, long-term relationship yet. You have only just begun this reconcilliation process. The reality likely is that he is trying things back on with you.... I'm not saying that in a negative way at all.... but there is bound to be some aprehension as he eases himself back into this.

 

I don't see his hot and cold behaviour as unnatural... I think it comes with the territory. And guess what? That really sucks! But it is also life, at least for the next few months.

 

Try and see this as a brand new relationship. Once you have settled in just a bit more, I think it is safe, healthy and imperative that you bring these issues up. However I think you risk pushing him away if you do it now...

 

Enjoy your interactions.... but also enjoy your own space in between to continue to heal.. you aren't going to be done that for a while.

 

Give it a month or more of "building trust and comfort" for both of you. At the end of that month, you'll see that he hasn't gone anywhere, so you'll have more lateral room to begin to redefine the rules of your interaction.

 

Right now you are rebuilding your positive moments... and from the sounds of it, it is going very well.

 

PS: On the specific issue of you taking the initiative... I don't think it hurts that you are doing that, but if it bothers you stop. Stop for 3 weeks and let him take the lead. You are already 4 months in, so what can it hurt?

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Leftalone,

 

Once again I agree with S&D. But just to add my support and perspective...in the last talk that I had with my exgf a few weeks ago (the one where she pulled back from her commitment to give 100%) she specifically said to me "I know you want black and white right now, but all I can offer you is gray." At the time I accepted this without pushing-back because I knew that she was already feeling pressure, I didnt need to add more. After that conversation, I had to make the determination for myself if I can live in the "gray" area... and right now I am taking it day by day. After getting over my initial frustration of her pull-back, I accepted that this is all that I am going to receive from her right now, my frustration level has gone way down. So, I am learning to play the fence and being comfortable in the gray... interacting with the exgf periodically in one hand, and getting on with my life on the other. We'll see how long this lasts.

 

So, I think you need to accept being in the gray area if you are going to play this one out...without a label on your relationship. You are dating your ex, and free to date other people. Try to enjoy this time. I think these things come to a head naturally at some point. If you add pressure to your ex now, he is likely to pull back. I think you have a great thing going. You are interacting very frequently (I have seen my Ex once every 2 weeks, and maybe we talk once per week. No sleeping over. Only light affectionate kisses). So dont take for granted how often you are interacting. But some words of caution...where the male/female difference thing will come in. During this period, if he is not exclusive with you, I dont think you should be giving him sex. This is the one bargaining chip that you have, that he will try to grasp. If you are giving him everything, there is no need for him to delve further into the relationship. Once he starts asking for sex, this is when you can start asking your questions about the relationship - to make sure you are on the same page (you women seem to have a great sense of when to do this anyway). Play it cool though. Dont make it a threat, dont be confrontational.

[shockeddismayed]

Here Here Fletch,

 

One more thing leftalone....

 

This is another question of perspective.

 

Remember that yesterday your PM to me discussed the new guy... he is kind, friendly, attractive and very interested.

 

You are in an awesome situation. The "grey" experienced by your EX is the same as the "grey" you are experiencing choosing btwn something new and exciting and your old EX. Try and think about things as they are now... evaluate on now... allow yourself to consider that maybe your EX just doesn't have it in him right now...

 

Then say... "Gee, I am actually LUCKY that he hasn't made up his mind yet, b/c if this is the way he will act when he is decided, it will make things confusing for me... I won't know whether he is worth ending things with new guy.... thank goodness he isn't asking me to make that decision now. He'd better get his act together and start making some effort before he expects me to jump 100% back into things."

 

So... continue to let things (and the men courting you) reveal themselves. It will get clear when mutual love blossoms.... same as it did before.

[craigblitz]

Not suprsing but I totally agree with S&D and Fletch on this one. The grey area is a scary place to be because you were in a balck or white area with your ex at one time. To sum it up in a few words spin the grey area to be a positive for you. In fact if you look at what they just told you it is not much of a spin there are a lot of positves there.

[leftalone]

Wise words indeed, and as usual, all. As for the imbalance in intiating contact/plans, I'm going to take your advice S&D and keep from emailing or calling/planning for a bit and let him get around to calling me. At the very least, if it takes him a gross amount of time to do so, I'll be able to broach the subject of my feeling like the intiator, using the X amount of days he will have taken to contact me as an example. I really don't have a leg to stand on right now in that argument, because I know him well, and all he would say is "but we talk/see each other every or every other day, you don't even give me a chance to initiate".

 

Yesterday we were emailing about the new poker chips set he purchased and I mentioned that in two and half years he never once offered to teach me the game, which is why I never participated in his poker gatherings (he always wanted me to). I was just talking in general, but then he responds with "I did SO offer. But I would love to teach you - come over tonight and we'll play!". I wasn't even fishing to see him last night, so I guess that was a nice sign - plus, a few friends of his were over and he was totally comfortable/enjoying my being there - not at all trying to separate his "i'm single" life with our time together.

 

I digress though - it was still an activity I felt was prompted by me, and this morning was a little strange, bringing me to Fletch's words of caution - the sex aspect is complicating things for me, making me more anxious than I probably need to be. This morning he didn't feel so hot, had a slight hangover, and we were running late - i got coffee but he had to run to catch the train and didn't even give me a parting kiss, just told me have a good day and rushed for the stairs. I immediately thought that when it comes to sex, though, he's right there and 'available', but can't take one or two seconds before parting to be affectionate with me before work in the morning...?????

 

so, besides holding back on contacting him in general, i'm also going to hold back on the intimacy physically - i don't want my level of discomfort to be intensified that we're progressing physically but not emotionally, etc. I need to separate the two here, so I can read his relationship actions more clearly.

 

But, it just occurred to me that I seem to be the one initiating things physically, too, once we go to bed...it's like when I really analyze his actions overall right now he is just letting me make all the moves and come to him - calling, emailing, planning activities, being affectionate when we hang out, and sexually. Is he being careful with me and letting me decide how we'll proceed, or is he being plain old lazy? These are things I'm trying to weigh, and I go back and forth.

 

Last night after the guests left he and I were finishing a beer and I mentioned that I had gotten him a poker table accessory way back for our 2 year anniversary, but got ambushed by our subsequent break-up the following week in giving it to him. I joked "then I hated your guts for awhile so I didn't plan on giving it to you at all"...and immediately said "just kidding'. And he goes "no you weren't. i'm sure you did hate my guts"...which made me see the hesitancy on his part as a possible result of that theory - that he is embarrassed, ashamed of his behaviour during that time and is having a hard time taking accountability and/or being proactive with me. But you gotta suck it up sometimes, if you really want to be with someone!!!!!!

 

He is a man of few words, and obviously I am the opposite...as in the awful depths of the broken up stage, the only way I'll reach a 'zen' state about all of this analyzing is no or very little contact on my part...it worked then, the constant thinking eased up a bit after the tough first few days, so that's what I'm going to do now...

 

Plus, I'm going to keep going on dates with the new guy, and just keep him at arm's length somewhat - like you guys said, I'm taking advantage of my limbo stage while I have the chance!

 

GREY AREA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shockeddismayed]

Leftalone...

 

I don't so much disagree with your action steps, but I do think that the overanalysis used to get there is a bit too much.

 

If you think the action steps you described will help you stop overanalyzing things... then by all means do them.

 

But just try and relax a bit when you are around him. Not everything is a sign of his comittment or lack thereof.

 

It could be that: 1) he invited you out, 2) you both had a good time, 3) you both enjoyed intimacy, 4) you both realized that he has injured you and it will need to be dealt with, 5) he was rushed in the morning....

 

And that's it.

 

Give it some time... force yourself to stop analyzing things.... and if after another few weeks you don't feel any better, then bring up your concerns in a productive manner.

 

I agree with you... at this point, other than discussing your hurt feelings (which are TOTALLY legit), you don't have much leg to stand on to complain about the progress with reconciliation.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Leftalone,

 

You definitely rival me in the overanalysis department. I will stare at a one sentence e-mail from the EXGF that says "Good Morning." and try to derive the underlying code. You have it so good right now - stop micro-managing... you are measuring time in days... thats unreasonable, no wonder you are frustrating yourself. At this stage things happens in weeks/months. If you get tired of initiating then stop, but allow the EXBF some time to initiate before your get frustrated and raise an issue (like give it a few weeks).

 

Forget that you provided the opportunity to be invited last night, the fact remains that he DID invite. You need to start focusing on the positive aspect of your interactions (and there are plenty) and stop looking for what is missing. The relationship is not going to be like it used to at this stage. Let it flow. Many people on this board would love to be in your position. Keep the faith.

[leftalone]

You're both right, thank you. I got so used to thinking, thinking, thinking (no, OBSESSING) about stuff and him when he was gone from my life altogether that I have found it is now habitual - i have to stop doing it so that I myself can be an effective, confident partner in the relationship, not some weepy worry-wart for whom nothing is ever enough...

 

I guess that's what getting back together is ultimately about, and where the responsibility (and power, in a way) falls on the shoulders of those in our position - it becomes a leap of faith and trust, and whether you still love the person enough to take risks on them again...i have to remember that i took a risk when i first started dating him in the first place, as all people do when they start something together.

 

He and I used to joke all the time about how much I read into things and how much I worry about stuff...that is a flaw in my character that I would really like to build up as a positive outcome from our break-up.

 

So, I'll go with what's happening now, trust in the ultimate goodness of this guy I devoted a lot of my life to, continue to build myself and my own confidence up in other areas so that i can bring that to our "new" relationship, and if I'm wrong then at least I know I took a gamble, and I'll be stronger (but not bitter) for it...

 

I guess that's what we're all doing, huh? Hanging out on limbs...

 

This board is ever the godsend - I would be nowhere right now if I hadn't had wise words from my dumpee compatriots to save me from myself

[shockeddismayed]

That's the spirit Leftalone.

 

I just wanted to echo your thoughts on carrying the "oh my gosh what is he/she thinking today" attitude back into the reconciliation process. I did the EXACT same thing... and then despite the fact that she had asked me out and was just feeling frightened I freaked out....

 

lol... I'm sure you all remember my description of the phoncall.

 

Certainly you are in the MOST DIFFICULT phase of things... but take comfort in the fact that there are many on this board in the same or similar places.... strength in numbers.

 

I spoke to my pal who got back together with his new bride after a 4 month split. He said the 2 months after they "started" again were the worst and most confusing, strange and wonderful months ever. They were both in couples counselling together, but there were several blow-ups and many hiccups along the way. It took time, but they are happy now.

 

I really like Fletch's advice about measuring in weeks, not days. After my blow up, I started doing exactly that... man has it ever helped!!!!

 

To me it still feels like an eternity since my EX and I saw each other.... all of 3 days ago. But I bet for her she is just trying to sort out the feelings she had on that day... she was very into me, so it would be disrupting I'm sure. But I told myself I wouldn't hear anything for a few weeks.... and that is what I am sticking to.

 

Good luck leftalone... you are doing AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[leftalone]

One step forward and two steps back...

 

Last night I went over to the ex's to watch the Democratic Convention speeches, after me and his roommate (my friend Tina) went for drinks. I hung out mostly with Tina at his place trying on clothes, etc., then ex and I settle in to the couch to watch the speeches. He was fairly affectionate, putting his arm on my knee, etc.

 

THen, when the program was over, he starts flipping through a magazine, intently, for about twenty minutes. I took this as some kind of cue and started to pick up my bag and say I was going to go home and get some sleep...he's like "why don't you just stay here?" I say ok...but then he continues to look at his magazine. It was awkward for me, like he wasn't even reading it he was just staring at it...so I go "what do you have planned for your weekend?" and he just flat out ignores the question. After about ten minutes of total silence, a commercial comes on for the Yankees games this weekend and I blurt out "oh I'm going to the game tomorrow night. A friend got tickets in the company box."

 

He looks away and goes "how many tickets?" I said "two" and realized oh boy, here we go - the "friend" is the guy I've been sort of seeing the last month...but I was glad that I had made the opportunity to find out what was up with us. So then he goes "you know, you don't have to just say "my friend", and be all vague - you can just say you have a date. AND HERE"S THE KICKER - "You can go on dates, WE'RE NOT TOGETHER."

 

I was absolutely stunned - I just stood up and stared down at him open-mouthed, thinking 'Then what the F#!% are we doing here???" I said nothing, just went into his room and got my other bag, and started to really get ready to leave without a word. He is like a baby - the only way I can get him to engage in a conversatin is to make suggestions and vague references that push his buttons.

 

So the gloves came off - he asked me why I was leaving and then asked "what's wrong with you, you seem like something's wrong". I said "honestly, my feelings are incredibly hurt." and then it all came out - I told him that i was not in this casually, and if he was then he should have just cleared that up in the first place because I woudl never have continued on the last few weeks...i told him that the reason I may have been too eager wtih calls and planning is because when i leave in the morning i do so with a huge question mark over my head about the physical stuff, wondering if this is just casual filler for him....i told him about how the last four months could in now way allow me to just 'hang out' with him like a casual person with no intent on working on things and possibly getting back together...'

 

He goes - I told you back in May that I wanted to be single and I didn't want to be in a relationship." I almost punched him - that's the announcement that made me stop all contact in the first place, when I told him I loved him and couldn't be a casual fling for him. Three weeks later, when he came around before and after his trip I thought "well, he made up his mind".

 

Anyway, it got really bad - him saying "Okay maybe we should just stop this altogether. I don't think this is going to work". But I didn't let him leave it there...I probed him, asking him why he thinks so, and he goes "it just seems like with us it's either all or nothing. it's only been three weeks and here I am feeling like we're just steam rolling along into being an ultra-serious couple again. and you're the one going out on dates".

 

So, obviously the idea of my going out wtih ohter people had hurt him. I told him what did he expect if he wasn't going to ask me to be exclusive, but then he said "I thought it was just obvious the last few weeks that we were exclusive. I've turned down a date or two in those weeks because of us". And I let him know that "see? You can't just let me assume these things, because if I assume too much from you, I end up getting hurt, these things have to be spelled out, even if they're hard to spell out"

 

I also told him that this is very much grey area, there doesn't have to be black and white, on or off...a lot of time has passed since we were a serious couple, and we've both changed/grown during that time in various ways, and we HAVE to start slow to see if we can build a new house on the old foundation, so to speak...he liked that idea, and calmed down a bit (things had gotten heated about the dating other people). Then he suggested that we take sex out of the equation for a little while, because he didn't like the idea of me leaving in the morning questioning his intentions with me all the time. I loved that idea, b/c it was really starting to make me feel vulnerable and constantly anxious. So I said "Okay, are we still going to 'be dating'?" and he said "yes, romantically and hanging out as friends, too". I also told him, loud and clear "That's what I want too. But I cannot be strung along. No one wants to be on a string, and it's just not fair to do to me". He agreed.

 

WHEW. So, I stayed the night (just sleeping), and the funny thing is after our talk and we had calmed down, he was sweeter, more affectionate, and more himself to me than he had been yet - was an absolute sweetheart this morning, even though he didn't have to get up for work and I did, he woke up with me, joked around, didn't leave my side all night.

 

I have to talk to the new guy after the yankees game tonight, because i think it's dividing my attention, and i now know that hte ex was hurt that I just kept going out on dates all of this time...although he didn't make a proactive point to secure me to himself, either.

 

And the other thing is, I'm a little worried that his threat of "fine now I"m going to start going on dates" is something he'll actually do b/c now HE feels vulnerable, so I hope I didn't create a monster there...

 

anyway, such a long post, sorry...it seems that the grey area is just as hard for the exes as it is for us, b/c they're still fighting the impulses that were strong enough to make them leave in the first place...oh man does this require patience, and faith and trust...But I am still dumbfounded about how hot and cold his feelings/intentions, etc. are - within ONE conversation, he flippantly told me to date other people, then gets upset that I was dating other people, told me we're not together we're just getting closure, and then tells me all this time he's considered us exclusive. And ends it with us continuing to date minus the sex. It's like a yoyo with him, like I"m watching a tennis match going on in his brain.

[craigblitz]

There was absolutley no steps backwards there.... I am starting to think more in more in situations like ours where this a lot of contact and seeing the ex that being blunt and honest is the way to go. The honesty came out in both of you, but don't you feel 10 times better. I am watching your situation very close because I can see a lot of similiarities with my ex, but I think you hit the nail on the head!!!

 

"oh man does this require patience, and faith and trust..."

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Leftalone,

 

I think this was a HUGE exchange, as painful and confusing as it might have been. The best part was that it appeared to be initiated by the exbf and NOT you (it was he who referenced "the other man" to initiate the conversation) You just took advantage of the opportunity to air your grievances and issues as well.

 

Ultimately you were able to synchronize your expectations with the the exbf (at least for the moment), and were able to convey much of your feelings, which had to feel good, no? He even responded by changing his behavior the next morning. This was also good for the exbf, so that he could clear some of is pent-up concerns. It confirmed for you that the exbf is majorly confused/cautious/scared right now, but DOES want to be with you (maybe even exclusively). Follow your own advice to him and take it slow.

 

Also, the fact that the exbf offered to pull back on sex was mature on his part (just think, I guy pulled back on sex!). This gives you back A LOT of power without having to wrestle it away from him. DON'T SQUANDER IT. While sex shouldn't be used as a "bargaining chip" in any relationship, you can now offer it to him ONLY when you feel comfortable that he his meeting your emotional needs and is at the same commitment level as you. Treat this with care, because it gives you power to influence and gauge the relationship going forward. It wont be that long before he starts asking you for it again (when I say not long… think weeks not days).

 

After reading your update however, I am left with one nagging question - Are you two exclusive? If you do not know, then you may want to revisit this briefly with the exbf – whatever his answer is… be cool with it and don't make a long discussion out of it – just say "thanks, I wanted to make sure that we were on the same page. I was a bit confused on this topic after our discussion". By playing it cool if he says "no", it will show that you are confident in yourself and other dating possibilities. If you are not exclusive, I would not be canceling your dates with the "other man" JUST because you think it may make you exbf feel bad…especially if you think he is going to date other women. Do what is best for you.

 

I suspect that there will be continued waffling on his part, so prepare yourself. But I do think this was a productive discussion.

[leftalone]

Quick update - after our little confo on Thursday night, and reading Fletch's and Craig's replies Friday, I decided to just pull back in a big way, because I have learned by now that serious talks with the ex are going to come in bits and pieces...so I went to a baseball game Friday night on a date, and went to the beach for the weekend. I was stressing what had happened, especially the words echoing in my head "It's not like we're together" over and over...but I just determined to go along as usual, not call him or anything and let him come to me. I got home to my apartment yesterday around 5, and went through the mail, read a book etc., so I wouldn't think too much, and what do you know? At 7ish the ex calls me, unsolicited, to see if I'd like to get together for a Scrabble game (our favorite) and some take-out for dinner. He walked to my place to pick me up and we walked back to his place, had Chinese, a fun time playing the game with his roommates (an engaged couple), and he was wonderful, totally relaxed and affectionate the whole time.

 

AND - I followed through with the "no-sex" pact, although it was very difficult (and more so for him , but he understands what's behind it ... right before we went to sleep he goes "Um...I'm sorry for being a mean a*$hole on Thursday night. I said a lot of cold things, b/c I was really really jealous." I said I knew that, and that I was jealous, too, of the possibilities of other people for him, and then he said I have nothing to jealous about at all, and I said same goes for him...

 

I'm feeling so very relaxed, especially because I feel as though after wrestling with my need to overthink, and smother him with my presense, etc. I've hit my stride - as long as I back off quietly, he'll come around...just have to keep reminding myself of that formula when I start to get anxious again - although the no-sex factor is ENORMOUSLY reassuring...

 

p.s. we opened our fortune cookies after dinner and when he opened his, he just laughed kind of sheepishly and looked up at me, grinning. He holds out his fortune, which says "do not be afraid to take a big step". And mine said, no kidding, "your dreams are about to come true.".

[craigblitz]

That is awsome... slow and steady... keep improving you and preparing yourself for either outcome. I am doing the same thing and our "Talks" come a little at time as well. I think I need to do the whole no sex thing as well, but damn.....lol

 

Anyway things are looking awsome... Keep us posted

[shockeddismayed]

Great work leftalone,

 

I'm sorry I didn't get to reply sooner... I've been enjoying some holiday time.

 

I think things are going very well for you. Everything that happened over the past few days has been excellent and par for the course. However.....

 

I am a little worried that you might be just a bit on the impatient side. Obviously you need to be your own guide,... only you can know what is tolerable or intolerable for you. Certainly if things don't continue to progress as you want them it is fair game to cut ties, however at this point I think your ex is paddling at close to his comfort level.

 

I don't think it would be a great idea to continue showing up at your EX's with your friend. I know it is her place too, but if I were your EX, it would have been just a bit too familiar for you to be showing up unannounced (or on short notice) in the first few weeks after to both begin to try again... you can always hang out with her elsewhere.

 

Remember, when he isn't around you, it is probably b/c he needs some downtime to ABSORB all of the feelings and emotions that this period is eliciting. There will be insecurities and fears of all types on both sides, so you both need to respect each other's space and downtime.

 

Besides, it doesn't do you much good in terms of appearing aloof, self-assured, etc.... and worse yet, could be interpretted by him as a little bit impatient, or even needy.

 

I guess my view is that you ended up dodging a bullet on Thursday. It seems to have worked out VERY MUCH in your favour, so I am cautious to give you the advice above... certainly it could be that you know EXACTLY how much you can push your EX and you are doing just that.

 

But just keep things in mind.

[leftalone]

I agree exactly...in fact, I had an uncomfortable feeling being there on Thursday, like I was imposing (not because he made me feel that way, but just because it wasn't time devoted to a planned get together). I know better than to have been there, but out of uncertainty I did it anyway...remember in OF MICE AND MEN when Lenny crushes the rabbit? Yeah. This is exactly the metaphor I need to avoid...

 

I did, in fact, dodge a bullet, and our talk and his obvious frustration was a much needed wake up call for me. Impatience is my biggest flaw ... and this weekend a lot of what I thought about was to take into account everything I know about him and how he operates - and in certain areas, he operates very differently than I do. I have to respect that and appreciate the level of steps he is taking - in fact, I have decided to use this as an opportunity to maybe learn things about him that I didn't know before...

 

Now that he has successfully reassured me about the physical concerns (i.e. our being intimate with so many questions still unanswered for me), I feel 100 times better - like now I can evaluate and participate in everything going on with us at face value, not being complicated by sleeping together. At least for a little while

 

I'm backing off, in a big way...thanks for the friendly reminder

[shockeddismayed]

As always Leftalone...

 

You have a great handle on this situation. Continue to let your head govern for a little while, not your injured ego, and you will be fine.

 

Glad you had a great weekend at the beach.... I'm applying aloe to my sunburn as we speak!

[leftalone]

So it's been awhile since I gave an update...last time I posted, things almost fell through altogether, because I gave in to being slightly pushy about spending time together, etc. we ended that talk in a good place, having taken sex off the table for awhile, until I felt more confident about us.

 

So all week last week was wonderful - emailing, cooking dinner together, having an entire weekend this weekend of romantic dates, deep sea fishing, reading in the park, etc. Just perfect, and I am feeling more and more secure about him and us, so I'm warming up to trusting his intentions with me. It's been a very steady, nice progression.

 

BUT, and this might be a doozy. BUT - on Saturday morning, before our fishing trip, I was browsing his computer to check my bank account online, and he had happened to leave his email account open. I know it is so so SO wrong of me, and I tried to hard to resist, but I couldn't help it - I started browsing through it. Here is what I found: Several emails back and forth with someone named Kate (who I had noticed in his cell phone call log a couple of weeks ago). Apparently, in the same week back in May when he came around for a week and hten abruptly ended the reconciliation with me, he started going on dates with her. Some of the emails made me want to vomit: "I had an amazing time", etc. You know, typical third - eighth date flirty email stuff. They were clearly intimate with each other. Then, he stopped writing her and/or making plans as much with her right when he went on that fishing trip (i.e. when we ran into each other and then had that great night when I went to get my earrings). He leaves for two weeks, comes back, we continue to hesitantly get together, and they were still occasionally emailing (mostly her, asking to go out for drinks, etc.). His enthusiasm towards her had dropped off consistently. Then, last Monday there was an email from her referring to a conversation they had had the night before, in which he apparently dumped her. Her email is saying 'it's too painful for me to be your friend", and "I just hope you don't say the things you said to me to the next girl", etc. They were only seeing each other for about six weeks, so whatever he said must have been like the first girl he dated (immediately following our breakup). He responded to her with a formal, polite apology, saying I'm sorry if I strung you along but I really can't be dating new people right now, etc. You're a great girl, so positive, so I really enjoyed seeing you, and hopefully we can still hang out as friends when you're ready.

 

This was two days after our serious spat, where I said to him "what the f—k are we doing here" and letting him know that I wanted to be dating each other exclusively etc. So the outcome of that talk was clearly good – he broke it off with this person right away. However, she emailed him this past Wednesday (three days after he dumped her) to say "I feel a lot better, you're not that much of a heartbreaker, so I would like to hang out. Do you want to get coffee sometime next week?" he responds with a friendly "okay" and now it seems they have coffee plans for tomorrow night.

 

Leading me right back to – what the hell???? Does this guy just keep trying on other women and comparing them to me? WHY are they getting together for coffee if he ended it with her and we had this wonderful week together where the bonds are repairing themselves stronger each day between us…I'm so angry and hurt that during the three weeks of no-contact in June, where I suffered so much after getting my hopes up, he was just flying along into another dating scenario, like I was just the old bag to dump again and try on someone else…

 

So right now, I feel mad at myself for snooping through his email (and obviously can't bring up Kate with him because of my invading his privacy to find out about her), wonderful about where we are right now, worried he'll do the same thing yet again, and angry that my self esteem takes a blow because some seemingly great, uncomplicated girl has come along twice now, both turning out to be the wrong thing. And I feel like this sucker who he sees as just waiting patiently while he explores what else is out there, when I'M the one who got hurt, and I'M the one who should have been calling the shots…

 

Anyway, after what I found out, I decided that until he says those words to me that he loves me, and wants us to be official again, I am not going to stop going on dates, and I'm not going to broach serious talks with the ex.

 

What do you all think about this turn of events? (Besides lecturing me on invading his privacy, I know how terrible and low that was)

[shockeddismayed]

Hey Leftalone...

 

I am sorry that you found this out. I am struggling with similar feelings... I had trusted my EX when she said that nothing was happening anymore with the other guy... yet it now seems that things ended a little later than she originally let on.

 

But put it in perspective.

1) He came around in May to see how he felt...

2) Another girl was there during this confusing period.

3) He let himself see where it would lead him.

4) He ended it b/c it led back to you.

5) He went on his trip and thought about you...

6) When he returned, he did the right thing and ended things with her before they got too serious...

7) He's made it clear he only wants to be friends with her.

 

The way I see it, you are in first place. True... he has given you no guarantees as to the future... but you haven't given him any either.

 

Do EXACTLY what you would to with a new guy you have feelings for... if he hasn't asked you to be exclusive... you are NOT obligated to be exclusive. I'm sure there is a subtle way you can let your EX know this without coming accross as needy.... flirty jokes might work... or just being honest about dating your other guy friend.

 

If he gets angry, just say plainly: "listen, you wanted me to be single... I am. If you want me to be exclusive to you, you need to tell me."

[leftalone]

Hello, all. Just posting this as an update...the good news is that my ex is officially on board. After I found out that he stopped seeing the recent girl about a month ago, it was like a total 180. NO more flip flopping, or hedging on his part - he came around 100%. On a date for my birthday (last Monday night), I arrived at his place not expecting too much - he had bought my favorite wine, put out cheese and my gift, which was a beautiful silk dress that he picked out for me to wear out on a fancy dinner. The date was wonderful, but even better, while we were enjoying our wine before leaving we sort of fell into a serious chat. Just about how sometimes he felt backed into a corner, like he had to stand and fight with me when what he needs is to retreat. And how all of that stress built up for him, leading him to throw in the towel. And, he apologized!!! About many things - rushing into his stupid fling with Emily, not being able to deal more maturely when we were first breaking up (just stuck his head in the sand and pretended like we never happened, etc.) I told him just how affected I was by his actions (i.e. total devastation).

 

In the week leading up to that date, I also officially stopped seeing the guy I was seeing casually while dealing with the ex. The most important part of my experience with "the new guy" was getting to see myself from the perspective of someone new - the me that is unwounded, undepressed, not considered alongside emtional baggage. And it was important for me so that I can make sure I never lose that way of being seen by someone who cares about me - something I'll need to watch very closely from the "ex" ("current"? Wow. never thought I'd say that, got so used to "ex")

 

ANother thing, adn this is advice to all - because I was frozen in grief, etc. for so long, I really didn't think I grew or gained anything from being without him and hurt by him. But I did - I had so much time alone, thinking thinking thinking, that during that time I was able to identify a lof of the flaws I had brought to our relationship, and how some of MY actions and attitudes had affected us. And I was able to shake a lot of those off, and I feel like such an unencumbered, wonderful person to be getting back together with...if that makes sense. HOWEVER - my ex distracted himself all that time, and, while looking like he didn't have a care in the world and without me all of his problems were solved, it turns out that the stresses in his life and mind are even worse now. He's talking about that with me, which is a huge difference from before, but I don't see that he's acknowledging on his own that hurting me or walking away from us was a time period he used valuably at all. Which is leaving me a little unsettled - did he change at all? Are we going to fall into the same uncommunicative, moody ruts, because he hasn't brought anything to light for himself?

 

I don't expect that four months makes us different, perfect people. But, I'm still the one who feels as though he needs to be taking care of me, helping me destress and begin to trust our couple status again. And there I was last night, reassuring him, walking on eggshells when he snapped at a suggestion I made for him to destress...I feel like there is a chance I have lost some power in this relationship. Namely, after last night's disappointment, the power to say "You don't have the right to direct the stress in your life that you can't make sense of my way, by snapping at me or, for that matter, leaving me" (harking back to him pinning his problems on our relationship in the first plaec) is still not totally within my grasp...We were watchign TV in bed and he was really opening up to me in his quiet way about things I never really knew before - how much he internalizes stress, adn it's stress he can't even put his finger on. Just a general frustration or anxiety he experiences throughout the day. The street noise below was really loud at this point and he goes, very frustrated "I dont' think city distractions like this help either, especially since it effects my sleep and adds to the stress". Well, I live in a quiet part of the neighborhood, wtih no street noise, and we had made plans to spend some QT together tonight before I leave town for the weekend for a wedding (invited and RSVPd pre-reconciliation). So, I sort of was stroking his hair and said, very quietly, "why dont' we stay at my place tomorrow night? it's quiet there, and no one will be there, we can just decompress" and he SNAPPED back "No. I don want to do anything tomorrow night." Like a child. He would occasionally be like this when we were together, just aim his unknown frustration my way and pull the trigger. I just turned onto my other side, said "goodnight then". And went to sleep. In short, after all I've been through BECAUSE of him, I'm not sure I'm completely equipped or willing to now make him being happy and destressed the core of the issues we deal with, with no room for anyone taking care of, or trying to destress, me.

 

Not sure if this makes any sense. But, to sum up, I guess "the road to glory has broken glass"... as they say. I got to spend quite a bit of time wtih someone who was just in a good mood all the time, NICE all the time, happy to see me all the time. The emotions for me didnt' run too deep there, but being around the new guy was REFRESHING. And last night I got to see a glimpse of some of those flaws in my BF that I didn't miss when we were apart (even though I thought I did).

 

A lot of work to be done my friends. For those of you who are in shock/agony/devastated right now, really do hang in there. There was a time when I thought I'd cut my arms off and never open my mouth to speak again in order to just have him back in my life - but we're all worth a lot more than just "being allowed" to be let back in to the fold. Keep that in mind while you're trying to get them back, and if you are getting them back. In my mind in many ways now, the jury is out on HIM...I went through too damn much to not be happy in this relationship once it comes back to me. We all deserve that, so just keep that in mind when those desperate rushes hit. And really DO occasionally dwell on the things about the person that bothered you, the things about them that weren't fulfilling all of your needs. As hard as it is, you do need to remember them - because when/if they come back, you're going to need to weigh those qualities and judge them with fresh eyes and hindsight on your side.

[Confused and hurt]

Hey leftalone-

 

Congrats on getting back together! I have read the whole progression of your story and I must say that I can only hope that is what happens in my own situation. I am curious to know though what kinds of issues led to your break up in the first place. Also, when your boyfriend broke up with you, what kinds of things did he say? Did you ever get the feeling that it was over for good, or did he leave you with a bit of hope.

 

In my own situation, I was with my ex for 2 years and we broke up because I was taking him and the relationship for granted. I was being downright hurtful, but I realized that is because I was unhappy and insecure with myself. I have worked on those issues over the past 2 months since we have been apart. He is seeing someone else already (started about 1 week after we broke up) and we are not contacting each other at the moment because he says it is too hard to do right now and that he needs a bit of distance from me. Seems pretty weird seeing as how he kept insisting he does not have strong feelings for me anymore and that he loves me but is not IN LOVE with me.

 

Any comments or advice you have would be great! I really hope he'll come to his senses the way yours did!