Never good enough. I think my gf may be a narcissist.

[Oorg]

Background:

 

I began dating this girl in September (after having talked for months) - we hit it off great. She is 24 (Cancer), I'm 27 (Gemini). She had broke up with a guy over a year prior (whom she had been broken up with about twice - they dated for about 2 years - and he had given her a promise ring, etc. - one day he just broke it off with her calling her a narcissist.

 

On to my story:

 

In the first few months of dating we had amazing sex (all the time) and things were great. She is the type of person who talks alot, so, talking on the phone daily with her for hours was the norm - as was her & I being on MSN all day chatting while at work. After a few months of this I told her I could no longer spend as much time talking to her on the phone every night as before -- the main reason being that the bulk time of our conversations on the phone was her complaining about work (for sometimes an hour at a time - I rarely got a word in!) -- so, upon hearing this she retreated back and basically gave me the silent treatment for about a day - and cut off being on msn because she claimed she was being 'too accessible' to me - a day or two passed and things were back to normal... for a few weeks... then I noticed she wasn't doing certain things sexually (oral) that she had done before - after about a month of nothing I mentioned it and she claims it was because she never liked it -- but then in another incident said the reason was because I wasn't giving her enough emotionally so she didn't feel like 'giving' that to me - even though I go down on her all the time and she enjoys it. (This was back in January)

 

Come April, she gets a promotion at her job, which requires even more responsibility and as such her stress level increases / her talk about work increases. So much so that she admits to having trouble coping with it, so I do what I can to help her - but it is never enough. Yet, this is a girl who has no hobbies and does not know what to do with herself during her "spare" time - she is too fixated on work, success, and (it seems) money too.

 

For instance, we planned to go out last Sunday (in the afternoon), she knew about it for a week, yet, she went out the night prior with her girlfriends and got completely wasted (puking multiple times) so that when I called her at 1PM she was still sleeping and hung over. She hadn't gone out with them in a while and this isn't normal for her - I can blame it on her trying to escape the stress - so I remained calm.. waited a few hours (since we had a birthday party to attend at 4PM) - and tried to find out if she could make it - then she got upset at me for not giving her sympathy for being sick (sorry, sick is not when you drink too much while partying (6 drinks in an hour, she normally goes for 2)). The conversation then came to her not being able to get her diamond earrings cleaned that day (she couldn't get out of bed) - the relevance of these earrings being that a rich guy that she still works with wanted to go out with her back in late 2002 (even though he has is married) - so he kept buying her gifts to try and gain her approval - she didn't want anything to do with him yet still kept the earrings. When I bring it up she gets very defensive, that it was "before my time", "none of my business" and that if I got her diamond earrings she'd get rid of those and wear mine, but she'd be surprised if I spent "$5 on them" -- which then led me to end the conversation... She then calls me many hours later apologizing. She is not a gold digger (in the classic sense/attitude) but with comments like that it scares the hell out of me as to where her values/priorities lie. The only defence I could see for her here is that I never bought her such a high-priced item and maybe she's upset that someone she cares nothing for bought her something like that and then there's me who doesn't feel that expensive jewellery should be how you should how much you care for someone.

 

So, last night on the phone she tells me that I get more pleasure than she gets (sexually) - and that we both should be getting more - but she is all over the map in that regard - early on in the relationship it was because we were doing it "too much in the same place" - then it became an issue of "me having an orgasm first before her" -- and most recently it has become us not having an orgasm at the "same time". To add to the list, she tells me that she thinks I see the the things I do to her sexually a chore rather than wanting to do it (so not the case!). When I attempt to discuss these things she says it is no big deal and wants to drop the conversation -- or goes into complete withdrawal and says nothing on the phone and all I hear is absolute silence and she says she has nothing to say (which usually happens when there is a conflict or any criticism involving her - she won't work it out - she'll avoid it at all costs - for at least a day)

 

I know I am more of a logical than emotional person, sometimes how I feel doesn't stand out but I honestly try to overcome this... When we have disagreements I will be rational and logical about them and if she has nothing to refute it with she will simply say I'm entitled to my own opinion... When she's not happy with something and I try to talk about it she'll just offer back for me to "..do what I want to do" - it is like running around in circles!

 

In terms of typical narcissists she has many of the traits:

 

- over-riding need for admiration and adulation ("narcissistic supply")

- obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, money, career

- likes to talk about herself - not interested in others or what they have to say, unless it is a potential Source of Supply and in order to obtain said supply

 

However, typical narcissists apparently have no empathy - she has a lot of that, she is a warm, caring person. However, sometimes when she does 'nice' things for people she will make sure they know it was a nice thing.. "Wasn't that nice for me to _________ for you?", etc. To me, that just takes away from the whole act - why are you advertising your good deeds?

 

I don't know what to do.. I care for her so deeply yet I feel she is taking everything from me and telling me it is not enough but honestly I have no more to give and feel the relationship is going downhill.

 

Advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks for reading, this is a great forum.

[sisterlynch]

I am not sure if I can offer you the advice that you want. She is what many would call a real peace of work. She needs some help in overcoming the "world, or her view of the world..."

 

Most narcisistic people resist help, that is why she won't discuss where she was wrong, counseling probably will not work on her, she will need you to admit that it is all your fault. Which you could do just to manipulate the situation.

 

Does she also have manic depressive qualities? Happy go lucky and also severe depression? Or is she pretty much up all the time? Does she take any mood altering drugs like ritalin or does she just stick to the alcohol?

 

If I were you I would distance myself from her feelings, especially if she tries to blame this on you, even indirectly with the comment that she made about the earings or your income. To me that is pretty close to emotional abuse, and you shouldn't have to tolerate that level of abuse.

 

She makes it impossible to love and respect her, because she is uncomfortable being herself. Also the love-making comments that she said sound pretty close to emotional abuse. The fact that she complains so much is also a form of emotional abuse, nothings ever pleases her and makes her happy, does it?

 

She will grow out of it eventually, but you may not be around by then. She is a child in a woman's body, and nobody in her life has ever required more of her, so she expects the world to give her an unending supply of pleasure, which is a difficult situation.

[Oorg]

Her highs are high and her lows are really low - yes. One day she'll admit to having a difficult time dealing with things and then the next will say she's fine and everything is ok.

 

She doesn't drink often, no.

 

As for the earrings, I practically had to drag an apology out of her... her defence being that I was persistent with it when she told me to "just drop it / lets not go there / its no big deal" - but then if it was no big deal why was she wanting to avoid the topic?

 

Apparently (to her) I'm not there enough emotionally... I don't support her enough.. don't compliment her enough... and last month it was that I should wear cologne more often cuz she likes that... she is not possessive (nor am I)..but the irony is that even though we talk all the time it doesn't appear we're communicating.

 

It's almost as if being rational/sensible is pointless.

 

Edit: She also claims that she was at her happiest earlier on in the relationship when she felt I was doing everything in my power to make sure all her pleasures were being fulfilled - if that means anything - also, her previous relationships usually don't go past 6 months - they run into trouble after that point.

[avman]

Hmmm I've run into these personalities before. They are like emotional vampires draining your energy until they are satisfied. You can never do enough, or be enough for them. They are concerned with one thing - themselves.

 

For an interesting viewpoint on this, have a look at this website: link removed.

 

In addition to some great tongue in cheek humor there are some good points in there that will make you feel much better about yourself and what you've just been through.

 

Hang in there my friend. Get educated on this and you'll see how much you've been played by this person.

 

avman

[Oorg]

The most relevant parts from that page were:

 

A narcissist may very well ask you what you want; they'll then use that information to manipulate you by threatening to withhold what you need and try to extract more attention and reassurance from you. And this is what you'll get in return: punishment for having challenged their perfection in the first place.

 

and

 

Healthy, strong people defend their due and their boundaries in relationships. Narcissists hate that.

 

I'm tempted to have her read this thread - but on the other hand - I'm pretty sure she'd close the browser window once she found out it was about her.

[murrayfaces]

You may have answered this, but I was wondering if she is ever abusive towards you? Physically, emotionally, verbally, etc?

[Oorg]

Emotional is basically some of the stuff you have read.. verbal and physical is not her style.. we are both strong and openminded individuals - who can be stubborn at times - the key difference is I try to understand the situation in its context but she equates the source of the problems to me not fulfilling her emotional needs

[Oorg]

I came accross this forum again and found my ancient post and figured I'd post an update for the hell of it:

 

1.5 months after the post (July '04) she broke it off with me and wanted to remain friends - 2 weeks later she kept calling me, about 15 times in 2 hours, to try and make amends. She admitted all her faults and how I was right all along and that she 'saw the light' etc etc. The problem was, prior to her breaking it off she didn't return my calls for 3 weeks - saying things like "I wasn't ignoring you - I just didn't return your calls" Anyways, it's obvious I was dealing someone unstable -- I told her I didn't want her back but agreed to meet up with her anyways.

 

One thing that bothered me was how she would say (during the no contact phase) that my text messages to her cell phone never got to her. When I had the chance I went through her phone (I know it's bad - but - at this point - I didn't care) - I found all my text messages there as well as the ones from her ex - the content & time/dates of which indicated she was hanging out/sleeping with him. I confronted her on it and she admitted to all of it - and even went to the extent of wanting to give me all her passwords/voicemail codes so I could keep tabs on her and not go out with her in public so my friends wouldn't think I'm going back to a loser. I said no to that as well - she later found a life counsellor and went to one for well over 6 months, I would talk to her sporadically until one day after no contact for 2 months she shows up at this years Valentine's Day party she knew I'd be at and came up to me to ask me to give her another chance.

 

I said no, there was no way I was going back to that.

 

Lesson learned: If the relationship is going downhill and you're the one putting in all the effort then there is only so much you can give, get out while you still have your sanity.

 

 

[avman]

Congratulations on getting through this and standing up for your own emotional health.

 

I'm sure you will find someone that treats you well and makes you happy!

[lefthanginagain]

I am going threw the same. Its hard not to fall back into the trap. Congrads. My life was almost ruined after 3 yrs of this.

[metro_girl]

You come accross as sounding a little condascending, like you're the rational and logical one, and she doesn't know how to "refute" your arguments. Is it enjoyable arguing? Sometimes different personalities just don't work well together. Is it possible that you have stopped giving her the kind of love and attention you gave her in the beginning? What's so wrong with jewelery as a gift from the right man under the right circumstances? Sometimes guys will change after the beginning of the relationship, after they think they've "won" her over, which can make the woman seem even more needy for attention.

[metro_girl]

Background:

 

I began dating this girl in September (after having talked for months) - we hit it off great. She is 24 (Cancer), I'm 27 (Gemini). She had broke up with a guy over a year prior (whom she had been broken up with about twice - they dated for about 2 years - and he had given her a promise ring, etc. - one day he just broke it off with her calling her a narcissist.

 

On to my story:

 

In the first few months of dating we had amazing sex (all the time) and things were great. She is the type of person who talks alot.

 

I'm not sure why your post caught my attention. I'm just seeing this possibly from a different angle. Do you believe in horoscopes and that's why it matters if she's a Cancer and you're a Gemini? Is that rational and logical?

 

Also, if someone from her past called her a narcissist and then broke it off with her, and she confided this to you, is it fair that you're now doing the same thing to her and using a confidence she shared with you as a weapon of "logic" against her? That sounds really cruel.

 

The other point is, you say that in the first few months of dating you had amazing sex all the time and things were "great", but, then it sounds like she wanted to actually start talking with you. Do you see how that sounds? It sounds like things were great for you in the beginning because of the great sex until she wanted to start talking. Women can sometimes want that.