rich 1517 - its done

[rich_1517]

ok my team of concerted wisdom and experience. here we go again.

 

who is this guy? i mean me. i vent here but with her i am very collected and well, natural.

 

she called as expected. and heres the conversation

 

her: do you want to go to the waterpark with me and son?

 

me: lets talk, i realised you are shut off, not vulnerable at all with me, thats really uncomfortable for me, the lack of clarity. it makes getting together not work.

 

her: i think i have been vulnerable.

 

me: well its been my perception that you are extremely cautious with me and not very open. and i believe thats why dating failed and why i am moving on.

 

her: im still stuck.

 

me: whats your ideal? i mean what do you envision for me and you?

 

her: we are best friends, i miss you.

 

me: friends cant happen now, it means me letting my feelings go and i cant tell you how long that will take.

 

her: i dont know if its just friends.

 

me: well that leaves a simple quesiton: is the romance between you and i over?

 

her: i dont know. i miss you, but i dont know if thats just becuase you arent here.

 

me: i cant work with i dont know, it means i have to keep moving on.

 

we had to end it there, i told her i would call her tomorrow to finish up.

 

my plan is to just say, im sorry i wish it was different, but if you dont know then neither do i. i have to let go.

 

ideas? thoughts?

[DaisyB]

Wow, Rich -- I know this isn't a direct transcript of your conversation, but from what you've written, it seems like you two are in two different worlds. I wonder how well you two are able to hear each other right now.

 

I understand what you're saying -- it's too painful for you to be just friends with her. But I can't tell if she understands that. I don't know if she knows that her indecision is hurting you so much.

 

I understand what she's saying -- she's still unsure about what she wants long term, but she misses you and still thinks of you as her best friend.

 

Obviously, those two are incompatible. . . so until she realizes that she wants you as more than a friend, or until you decide that you can be friends with her, I think you're going to have to keep moving on.

 

You can hold firm to that but still be a little vulnerable yourself, though -- tell her that you miss her, too, and miss being her best friend, hanging out with her son, etc. But that you're sorry, you can't be her best friend, or any kind of real friend right now. You need time to heal, and space to move on.

[rich_1517]

thanks daisy

 

well i am going to hold off for a day, im not clear enough about my decision right now to stick to it.

 

i guess we arent hearing each other your right. she did ask if she shouldnt call anymore, thinking thats what i was going to say.

 

I still (believe it or not) want this woman. so i have to come to decision that i can live with. if there is a chance at all, i want to give it a shot. so my decision must combine self respect and emotional safety with hope.

 

my thought is this.

 

tell her im trying to understand what she is going through, and that i do miss being friends, being with her and her son and doing things. but with the unclarity its very uncomfortable to be anything. so maybe you need to take time to decide what you want, and i have to keep doing what i am doing.

 

I can see you have doubts, perhaps you need to look at them (thanks daisy)

 

to show up as a just a friend means i have to heal from what was.

 

god i wish this was different.

[Mix Maxster]

Hey all,

 

It's over for me and my ex for good now. I'm going to have the "talks to end all talks" this friday and it's going to be so hard for me and her to talk, but I'm tired of this NC that is making it easier for her to move away. She's got the wrong idea about me and letting her have time to drive her relationship with that in mind is only going to make it that much easier for her to move on without thinking about it. So this friday I'm planning on telling her everything, the truth about everything, how I feel and what I want her to understand. Ultimately it's going to terminate my friendship with her because I truly love her and it's not so much that I want her for myself as it kills me to be apart, so rather than try and hide my feelings I feel it's best that I just walk away completely. It's unfortunate really, but I can't handle being the friend as I'm still pining the loss and this is only driving me further and further to insanity. I've made some great progress since the break up and all, but I know that if she keeps acting aloof and oblivious, my talks and everything I've said won't have an impact whatsoever.

 

Wish me luck everyone, my instincts tell me that this conversation is going to be a big one. I mean who could ask for a better birthday present?

[rich_1517]

hhmm. all i can say mixmaster is dont do it. saying you are walking away only makes you regret it. if its to regain pride that doesnt work either. but do what you feel you must.

 

 

well i spoke to her. and contrary to what i just told mix, i said i do miss you and (son) and being there. but i cant be with so much unclarity.

 

talking isnt the best idea either, its well not real fun overall. i said i realise that you have some real doubts about long term with me, i understand. but i cant be a real friend right now.

 

you have to decide what you want before we can do anything, she said can i call you tomorrow or this weekend? I said i dont know if contact is needed unless you know what you want.

 

was there another way? is there still? im proud of myself but i am hurting beyong belief. i feel free but very very sad.

 

why did she have to string it and me along. i could hate her if i wanted to. i have never felt so distant from her as i do now.

 

does anyone see anything here that could be done? i had hoped missing me would start her moving one way or the other. and she has moved but not enough to say anything. she is still just sitting on the fence.

 

now she really knows i am gone without a committment of some kind. ack, this stinks and i fear it will hurt more. sorry i just cant see anything good right now. could i have said ok you can call me? no becuase she will just use that to continue the ambiguity forever.

 

i really want to be past this, or to have her come back and soon. i have made a move i cant turn back on, i know that. it just makes me furious that something that once meant a lot is so trivialised.

[rich_1517]

I am rage and sadness. i am sorrow and emptiness. gee think i am being dramatic.

 

hell im really hurting. i can "see" clear as day me being with her and her son. i can feel that we belong together. i see the loss so clearly.

 

i am trying desperately to remember that for four months now she has sent a message of doubt, no comittment to even really talk about it, nothing has changed. she has controlled everything to a friendly degree.

 

i need to keep focused on that. the fact that she has wanted nothing that even looks like reconciallliation. yesterdays phone call was the closest we had come, i could feel it, we were more on the same "feeling" channel.

 

but i feel i had to stick to my guns. i cannot show up as a friend now. if you cant decide what i am to you i cant be there for it.

 

I can hope, thats all that two things happen - one that she wears down and realises she is losing a great guy. two - that i dont cave in and be willing to play on her rules again. the second scares me, becuase i miss her so. she is more than willing to include me in her life in so many ways, but there will be a limit to that if we are buddies.

 

but god i want to be there. i truly do.

 

I am talking to other women and all i can think of is her after. does anyone anywhere have a suggestion. im doing what i feel i must but is there another way? help.

[Mix Maxster]

I'm sorry Rich,

but I didn't specify what I meant by it. Pretty much I just meant that she isn't doing anything, she's using the NO contact time for her to build her new relationship and eventually lose any other feelings she has towards me. So i feel by just talking to her and getting us to get some GOOD closure, that is the only way she would ever come back. Because right now it sounds like she is really happy with this new guy and when I talk to her, she sounds like she still has resentment towards me. I'm sure no doubt that her friends have been bugging her as to why I've been calling, here I am trying to be sincere and I could just see her friends telling her "oh I don't know what he's up to... seriously he's probably just too clingy" or something like that. I'm really not assuming that, but in the end I know that I HAVE to do something because I can feel my heart telling me my time is running out with her.

 

So in the end I basically want to put her in the position where it's all left to her and where I'm completely out of her life, I feel that this is the only way she'll remember me. The talk I intend on having with her tomorrow is to set EVERYTHING straight, I want to be able to get past this like we were a couple so that she won't have any resentment towards me and that she will be free to get back together IF and WHEN she chooses and WHY in the end. It's a HUGE thing and I don't want her coming back because she's just sorry or is lonely, I don't want her to think like me, but I don't think the "soul mate" image she has in her head is very healthy for finding someone. In the end I want to be able to leave this conversation where I may never see or hear from her again but with her feeling like she can trust me again and all she has to do is make the move herself. I know that if I keep sitting here on the side or if she isn't thinking about it, she never will and leaving me will be her best decision. I mean she has someone new right now and she sounds pretty happy, if she's still living on me being this jerk or if she still believes I'm the old guy she hates, then she would never consider goign back. But i want to be true and honest and get passed all of this hatred and resentment and pain that she's put herself through, she won't be able to come out of her shell if she doesn't. That's why I want to talk to her and tell her all of this and I say that I don't want to talk to her so she can heal without me. I will leave it all up to her to talk to me in the end, I want her to be in control of it because I'm leaving it up to her. She has to figure it out herself because I cannot do it for her. She needs to live life and get a better understanding of everything, I also need to see if maybe there's someone else out there for me although I feel she's so different and I jsut can't put my finger on it.

 

Anyways, I'm not doing it for my pride, nor am I doing it to save myself from the pain, nor am i doing it out of resentment. I'm really doing it because I love her so much and I want her to get passed this hate she has towards me and I need me and her to feel safe and comfortable and like a functioning couple, maybe then she could come back eventually. I dunno?

[rich_1517]

Hi Mix

 

my take is this. you are facing one of the hardest things to do. walk away. if she is with someone else and you are calling thats pressure. no matter what you say, its pressure. as unfair as it sounds she is using the no contact time as what it is, her time. you are choosing to also use it as her time. not yours.

 

I dont mean to be harsh, but i want to save you from turning up the cling concept. your best move is to disapear for a while. i dont know how long you were together, but if it was longer then six months and she is with someone new, chances are that relationship will not work out. but you will make them closer by being a negative force.

 

be visibly absent. dont try to make up for being clingy, i dont know if you were or not but calling or talking about it doesnt help it hurts, it shows you cant handle it. believe me.

 

if she is with someone else, no contact does not exist its over for all intents and purposes. your best play is to show it doesnt matter. dont return her calls, dont speak to her except to say hi and then get off.

 

sounds weird huh? well you know my situation and since cutting her off i have gotten more then i did before, but its not enough. point is she misses me becuase im not there, i have now told her not to contact me, so she cant get a short term fix.

 

try to show it doesnt matter anymore, be casual about the whole thing. dont talk to her friends, find people to talk to who arent involved. but do not try to resolve something with her that "looks" resolved already for her. it only looks like you are still hanging on. trust me. been you at 21 and it sucked. if you really want to hear what i did "you cant let go of me can you?" keep showing her the hurt.

 

restore your confidence and ignore her for at least a couple weeks. i wish i could change your heart for you kiddo, i do. i wish i could spare you the anguish of this, but getting her back is not on an emotional level right now. its on a an abscence level.

[Mix Maxster]

lol umm well that's what i meant did i not?

hehe well i guess i'm still confusing. Anyways well tomorrow i asked ot do this because I heard from her friend that she's happy with this new guy and that she is worried about me because she thinks i'm handling it too hard. Basically tomorrow I want to talk to her and hope to resolve our issues, I feel there's still some things she hasn' said to me and I feel that if she is using this no contact time as her way of getting over me completely it won't matter later on if this comes out or not. So essentially tomorow I was planning on talkign to her and telling her everything about my relationship with ehr and telling her how sorry i was for this and that and that I am not goign to make this any more harder for her now and that I'm just going to leave her be until SHE'S ready to come and talk. I basically am saying that I ccannot remain friends with her because it's only making it easy for her. I basically am goign to leave it tomorrow with her having to talk to me if she so wants, but i'm hoping that me and her can make a break thru first so she's more inclined to talk to me again. I'm basically giving her back everything she gave me while we were goign out so that she can GIVE IT BACk to me when she's ready to. Basically saying, this is my promise to you that I want to remain in your life or else i'd just throw it all out right?. I know it's really confusing, but essentially I know that my ex had some things that hurt her through her relationship with me and I want me and her to be on good terms and to get over any resentment or held feelings. It's going to be hurtful for me and her and I don't want to do this, but she can't heal if she doesn't want to do it and i know she isn't thinking aobut it at all and probably won't with this new guy in her life. I'm not trying to split them up, but me and ehr were in a relationship togetehr for 2years and 3 months, there's no way she has NOTHING towards me. So really I'm basially leaving it up to her to figure out everythign to herself becasue that's alll I can do, but I dont' want her to have this hate and resentment towards me, if we can work through it now there's a chance for it to work out in the end. Or else she'll still tell herself that I'm the same old jerk she dumped. That's the poitn I was trying to make, that I want me and her to be on good terms and for her to do her own thing for however long she needs to and that i'm not counting on her coming back but that i'm hoping that one time in the future she'll come back and talk to me or make an effort to stay in my life. that's why I'm giving her everythign she gave me so that she'll be able to say to me without words that she hasn't forgotten about what I said about that stuph and that she wants to work it out or soemthing like that. I'm not counting on it, but either way... i either never hear from her again or hear from her in X months or X years. Either way she's gone and I have to get over her.

[strong1]

Hi Rich.

 

I don't know..I'm doing much (by 'much' I mean I can wake up in the morning w/out thinking I'd like someone to gouge out my heart) better when I do NOT contact me ex. When I do contact him or hear it voice..it's like ripping the stitches out of a wound that is nearly healed.

 

I've tried all the angles. Thing is..he knows I'm out there. He'll either come back at this point or not. Once you stop beating your head against the wall..your brain does clear a bit.

 

Not sayin' live is a bowl of cherries...but it aint the pits either! : )

 

Maybe you should just tell her you need a month on YOUR own to think. As her phone calls are getting your nowhere..and may even be making things worse. Just a thought. Something about just pretending they don't even exist anymore is quite comforting. AND IT CAN BE DONE. And, frankly..I'm leaning towards anger toward my ex more every day for what he has done. Sure, this wasn't all his fault...he's got a lot of job pressure. But he has NOT handled this well. And I can't fix it on my own..or..don't want to any longer anyway. Am losing respect for him by the second..and the love might not be far behind.

[rich_1517]

thanks strong one.

 

ueah nothing to do. one thing i could do that falls into keeping on track is letting her meet if she calls and asks. (someone with a blocked number called very late (unlike her though)). the ONLY reason i would, would be to show what shes missing. to be humble even i look really good right now. in shape, very tan, and well my attitude shows.

 

but thats not now, it would be for a closure meeting.

 

im realising i should have played this card sooner, but who knew the game she was playing? i think she honestly couldnt see this was hurting me as i really tried to not let her ever see the hurt, just show strength, love and attention.

 

if she continues to call i have to ignore until she leaves a message saying why. i think though she gets the message, dont call unless you have something to say. she has lost the friend now. thats what she was trying to avoid i think. once she said "friend" she may have worried she would lose me as a friend. and shes right. it will take me at least a year, maybe more to just be a friend. i love hard and well, but then have to have a lot of space to recover.

 

Mix: she can ask for her things back. you are manipulating her and it may or may not have the result you want, all your gestures of love and letting go are going to be seen so clearly as "I want you back". trust me on this.

 

you have to vacate and not let her see your hurt. she will contact you in time. she will ask for her things back. dont be desperate. you will be angrier after. you are trying to be noble but it will come of as needy. the noble thing to do is nothing right now. wish her well and cancel all contact.

 

i wish i could get through to you on this. i have been there. nothing you can do at this point (like me) will change the reality that she is gone and moving on. let her, and you may have more chance. you cannot rebuild her respect with these moves. and respect must exist for any feelings of love.

 

but you also cant talk about the relationship when she has a new guy. the simple fact being that your no contact period is now only for you. she owes you nothing (in her mind) and in reality. to ask her to feel anything is going to push her away.

 

 

hell i could be wrong im just saying wish her well and walk. if she asks why the change, just say you accepted where things are and are moving on. that will have more impace on her then anything else.

 

whatever you do good luck. and we will be here. post when you have talked or decided different.

 

you are reminding me of me.

[Mix Maxster]

Rich,

 

Well I see what you're saying, I will not give her back the stuph because I do see what you're saying by that and was worried, so if someone else sees that then I just won't do that. Anyways about the talk, well it's just that I have this feeling that my ex is still mad at me and I don't want to force it out of her but I want me and her to have better closure on it so that she can feel happy about it and work on things on her own. THat's where I want it, with me being able to move on and with her being able to move on happily. I know she's happy right now, but something is telling me she's still mad at me for so much and I'm not going to beg and plead for her forgiveness, but I'm going to say everything from my heart in hopes that one day down the line she will forgive me.

 

I guess all in all I want to have this one final talk with her so she can get over any feelings of resentment or disappointment or hatred towards me so that she could CONSIDER coming back to me because we worked through it. I guess it would be hard for her to want to come back if she still thought of me as this messed up guy and I don't want to force it out of her, but I think she needs to hear what I have to say. My friend has been talking to me and says that she NEEDS to know this. This same friend said that me and my ex looked perfect together and she feels that my ex isn't going through a phase so much as it is that my ex is going through some problems and isn't dealing with them. Turns out this same friend was talking to my ex about it and my friend said that my ex COULD be right with what she is saying, but that it just couldn't be that way as me and my ex were together for 2 years. My friend said that how could someone just lose that kind of love in such a short amount of time.

 

That is why I want to talk to her and let her know the truth about a lot of things and then let her go. I have to be very careful with my words, but I don't want me ex ever hating me or feeling like she couldn't trust me or else she'd never want to come back. I cannot guarantee that she would do this, but if I tell her all of this and then prove it to her through unspoken words (by her basically seeing it for herself) that she may then think about what she had given up on and maybe THEN could trust that I wasn't clingy, desperate and that maybe I did change. I mean I know it's far fetched, but I just feel like if I don't say anything she'll just move on with her life completely. I can move on as well, but not with the feeling like there would never be a chance, I'm not crazily looking for one but just to have the ambiguity there is enough to tell me that maybe one day 1-5-10 years from now, she'd want to be with me. It does sound nuts, but I figure NOTHING can happen if she still thinks of me as this bad person I feel I should do something to make it up to her now and I think telling her all of this will be just the thing she needs. Because it really sounds to me like my ex is distracted and telling herself things so she can cope with it.

[rich_1517]

Hmm

 

well i am feeling like maybe i was too inflexible lately. altough a friend asked me what was the two months deciding period about?

 

right: to decide. and now its two months later and yep no decision.

 

but on the phone thursday i was not open to talking again, i said i think you need to decide what you want, and said i think contact is not needed without that.

 

i am going to second guess for a while. i feel i left her no room but to come back completely or not. i would take a compromise but ihave to see it to decide. right now i cant contact her without giving away me again. she would read it as aha he cant let go of me.

 

she has been confused, or not. but i just took that away, there are no more reasons for her to think about this if she doesnt want to. hell if she doesnt want to why would i want her? but i feel i just handed her her walking papers and am feeling the loss.

 

this means she will be open to dating now, i am removed as a distraction so she will seek new ones. four months is a long time, but also we didnt have fun for some time before the break up. so i have to prepate myself to not care. and to accept that she will call or something like that is devoid of feeling. if i thought i was being under control before thats nothing like what i will have to do if she does a "test" of my feelings.

 

fact is she has to decide and dont think its going to be in favor at all. or she has to start talking which she isnt good at either.

 

god i want a middle ground again, she is open and acessible but not around romance. did i blow it by talking about and giving an ultimatum? she has dodged and weaved her way all around this thing. but is there any way i could get us doing things again without looking like a wimp?

 

it acnt be all pressure, the best reconciles are ones where you just miss each other and start doing things. thats what we were doing but she kept controlling the get togethers. i dont know i have to think about this. i will make each day a test of doing nothing, not looking very far ahead.

 

I have a hiking date today (shes cute) and C is coming over tomorrow night. bets on when the ex calls? and should i now tell her im dating? and also who? that would get her trust me. i dont like the game but it definitely says she has oopsed with me. C is the one she removed successfully to get me in the first place. kid the same age so she knows i would do all the things that i did with her and her son with C.

 

crap.

[rich_1517]

uhm mix master maybe you need to start a general post about it. right now you are under my thread and i dont know how many people can see it.

 

stop reading her mind my little brother. you are trying to control. stop. she is a big girl and think, feel and express for herself. you are carrying the load of the memories, guilt and relationship all on you.

 

let her miss you and see what she comes back with over time. i know at 19 that sucks hell its almost impossible. but your best play is this i think.

 

"i have gotten to accept things as they are. i hope one day you and i can talk. i know thats not now and if i did anything to hurt you im sorry"

 

short and sweet , but whats missing is asking her to "feel" and in all your posts you are asking her to not only feel but to respond. thats pressure. we have to have faith that our actions carry enough integrity, emotion and strength that if we have an impact on their heart we will know trust me.

 

but when we try to control what they think or feel (especially a woman) they see it becuase well they are better at it and they are also not obsessing as we are.

 

im not there i dont know her the way you do. but she is with someone else. that is what should drive your actions, with someone else means no emotional pressure. in my book. hey i feel for you, i can see a day coming now when my ex may be with someone new after leaving this whole four months open. i really dont want to face that right now myself.

 

hang in there.

[GeeCee]

Rich

 

I know that you are struggling. I know that it gets better.

 

Am thinking of you.

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

I will post what i have learned first. things that i have done and gone through that i think may help others.

 

i have to remember the person i may be speaking to, when i talk to the ex is not the one i had a relationship with. it is the person i met before we dated, everything else is an assumption and cant be trusted to be true. sounds harsh but trust me its real. i know in myself its who i am, i am more who i was before then i was during.

 

if you are in real no contact, meaning there is no physical or emotional sharing at any meaningful level and its broken off with little hope. date. the reasons are very sound. the first date will be strange but it showed me just how in my head i was, how not interactive i was, how out of the game i was. this gave me a place to start to rebuild the dating me. it works for new or old but it relly helps to see who i was and how impacted i was by the break up.

 

be prepared if you are dating that a "broken" date or someone not interested will trigger a bunch of stuff. remember self esteem is still repairing and a new loss can quickly trigger the old. dont sweat it, just start over and remember how valuable you are to whoever will accept you.

[rich_1517]

well i am conflicted today a lot. i am much stronger than i was by a lot. but i have doubts about what i just did.

 

she is naive, but under control. i think she has had her mind made up for some time.

 

when i diplomatically confronted her not being open or vulnerable she said she had been. i thought how can she say that? easy, if she faces that she is not then she has to face either opening up or the reason she isnt. and isnt means she has known all along but doesnt want to face that she was stringing me along.

 

i think about the invites, the trip offers and wonder was i trying to hard to control this? she was willing to keep doing this "dating" thing for a very long time. did i blow it by putting conditions on? no contact unless you know what you want, i need you to commit to work on this?

 

i know she misses me and i just opened the door to her seeing others. that will end it. did i do this? or was it dead already? as you can see i am confused today becuase i told the one i love and wanted to marry to basically not call me. thats what it adds up to. if you cant get through your confusion about me enough to commit there is no reason to call.

 

was i wrong?

 

in ten years will how will i look back at my actions? i am trying to see that because i had two loves before that made me feel this way and i thank the gods that i didnt end up with them. will i feel the same?

 

i know i cannot contact her now, it will send a message that will undo my work and she will know she has me, and she doesnt do well with taking me for granted as we have seen.

 

i see myself wanting passion and intimacy and sex now, and it makes me sad, becuase that small kernal of hope takes a beating the closer i get to someone else.

[GeeCee]

Rich

 

For what it is worth, I think that you have definitely done the RIGHT thing - she has had long enough to come to some conclusions and seems not to have done so. You have got to move on now.

 

i see myself wanting passion and intimacy and sex now, and it makes me sad, becuase that small kernal of hope takes a beating the closer i get to someone else.

 

Join the line, Rich, join the line - we are all getting to this stage now. Bring it on!!!!

 

Was talking to chick friend of mine recently and saying how long, after we start dating, can we have sex and have some semblance of decency? Her reply: Immediately!!! If not before!!!

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

well i had a really nice time with C last night. i wont supply details, oops just did.

 

i have to have a moment here and lose it. i want her back still, but i am angry and hurt. it stinks i had to be the one to cut it off, four months of dragging me along. thats just cruel. how did i pick her? i know i could have done something like this i suppose, i mean moved on emotionally but kept someone in my life still, but i dont think i would have lied to them to keep their friendship.

 

right now no one in my family or group of friends think very much of her, and i have my moments now where i am absolutely furious with how she has behaved. its one thing to leave its another to use someones love when you no longer care.

 

so why cant i let go? i miss her so much. it takes all my strength not to call, i have been playing the not calling game for so long with her.

 

when will it end for me? when i no longer want it. was i foolish to cut it off before i could fully accept the end?

 

i am in a lot of pain.

[Dragonlady]

Hi rich 1517

 

i've been following your post for a wile (made a couple of replies) and all I can say is I really feel for you. I know who hard it is to want something that is out of your control which in your situation (and mine) it is. You have made great steps in evaluating yourself and what you want out of life but you cannot control your ex and if she continues to shut you out, think is she worth your pain?? Heal for yourself and you will be ready to meet someone who will love you the way thatyou deserve (at least thats what I hope).

 

I wish I could give you a big hug right now to help take the pain away, I know this is little comfort but hang in there. remember everything happens for a reason but we may not see what it is yet. Keep us posted.

 

DL

[GeeCee]

Hi rich 1517

remember everything happens for a reason but we may not see what it is yet. Keep us posted.

 

Dragonlady ... this is in no way intended to flame you. But my oh my oh my, I could NOT LET THIS ONE GO.

 

This phrase that 'everything happens for a reason' just does not sit right with me personally. [/b]What is the reason that millions of children starve in Africa? What is the reason that so many millions of Jews were denied the right to live in Germany? What is the reason for women, children (and men) being sexually and emotionally abused daily? What is the reason for people treating others with anything other than respect and kindness?

 

I think if we are going to use the everything happens for a reasoncard, we can really justify any behaviour, no matter how heinous.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

G xx

[rich_1517]

i may sound weak, but i am really hurting so bad. i miss her every moment, i didnt think this would happen.

 

why does she have to be this way? i asked point blank is the romance over? she wont even bother to answer that question. i did say no contact is needed unless you know your decision. well i think we know her decision she just doesnt have the guts to say it.

 

soon the point will be moot. i mean if she was afraid if she said its over she would lose a friend. what does she think is happening now? or is she just mad becuase i took away her toy?

 

yes i am angry, talking to her now would be a bad idea. i feel she is dishonest with me and herself. even bad break ups have some discussion about what happened, and why. she has done zero.

 

and you know what? i want the phone to ring. i need to know she misses me. i havent called and its killing me to be where i am now. i had to be the one to cut it off, that sucks.

 

i cant accept its over, i dont know why, its irrational to want someone who cant meet my needs at all.

 

for someone who says im her best friend she has been a lousy friend.

[Dragonlady]

Sorry GeeCee I don't think I made my context clear, I meant everything happens for a reason in the sense that we are all suffering through break Ups with people that have meant something to us but are we missing them because it feels comfortable with what we know rather than the unknown. I have been left by someone who called me his soulmate, his love of his life (bearing in mind this guy is 10 years old than myself) but it's over and there is nothing I can do except jump into the unknown. Part of me will always love my X simply for what we had but maybe fate didn't mean for us to be together and that there is someone out there for all of us that will love us as we deserve and that we should never give up hope for what we want. That was my meaning for Rich1517 - live for what you want and hope.

 

One thing I am glad about in my situation is that I have never lost my compassion and feeling and I abhore any form of suffering and cruelty - I talk from personal experience by suffering physical, sexual and mental abuse within my past.

 

Please don't think that I am having a go because I do agree, just wanting to explain fully what i meant. I respect your point of view and have followed some of your threads and admire that way you are dealing with things.

 

Take care

[rich_1517]

each day is different. i miss her still, ia mr ealising she hasnt been much of a friend either. so saying i see you as a friend is a dodge as well. i have never known anyone who moves from lovers to friends immeditately. i know when i end a relationship even if i know i want them as a friend, i dont want it right away, i dont want to see them for a while. so this makes no sense either. does it to anyone else?

 

I mean have you or anyone you have known gone from a long term relationship to "wanting" that person still in your life every week and most weekends?

 

either she is afraid or there is something else. the something else could be someone else and im backup, hence no clear conclusion.

 

but i have decided to put a condition on the friendship. if she wants me to be her friend, i need her to tell me what was wrong with her behaviour as a friend for the last four months?

 

if she doesnt get it. then i will ask it in the form of if i had done ...... how would she feel about me at that point?

 

if she can tell me what was not ok, then ok friends it is, if she has no idea or wont even bother with it, then friends has no foundation and i cant trust her to be honest or accountable even as a friend. and no this isnt about not getting what i want, its about trust and respect. those have taken a severe beating at this point.

[strong1]

It seems like you just get more and more whipped into a frenzy every time you speak to her. Why not just NOT speak to her until she gets this figured out? I have not spoken or IMd my ex in about a month..(this mess has been going on nearly four months in my case)..and you know..I've pretty much shut down emotionally at this point as far as he's concerned. I feel nothing emotionally right now...not even anything for the ex...just brief thoughts of him. ..not necessarily good or bad thoughts. Just indifference. It's like he squeezed every caring bone out of my body. When I do have a passing emotion (which is rare right now) more often than not, I'm just filled with total disgust for his actions and what a HUGE coward he was to walk away w/out a valid explanation or closure. One moment he was talking about our future, the next..he said he needed 'space' and I found out from his friend that we had broken up. Grrr. S P I N E L E S S. While I hate the lack of closure..I prefer it over ever having to speak with him again. I'm telling you..once you hit the anger stage for real...it's a HUGE step forward. Eventually, I hope, I'll have feelings for someone again. I just really, reallly hope it is not for the ex. He had his chance..And he blew it...TWICE.

 

You ex has been no better. Seems she's taunting you (whether she means to or not I don't know.) But I'd just move forward if I were you. She'll come around on her own time, or not. But beating yourself senseless like this is not helping anyone. You don't want to become a shell of your former self.