rich 1517 - breaking down their barriers

[rich_1517]

Perhaps i need a new backbone.

 

i caved in yesterday after her not calling after we talked on monday. the talk was about continuing dating, that i do not want to be just friends and if that is the case then i have to move on. she said she is open to feeling more again, and wants to find passion again. so more dates, i really pushed then and said are you really open to "feeling" she said yes. i said ok dates.

 

but.. we havent kissed, i tried that night she pulled away. she has not brought up the relationship until i did. she is making no efforts at all. this is all me doing this.

 

i started the call normal chatty like we always do, then she said was there something specific? I asked, where did we leave things? (meaning are you letting me go or is more going to happen here.) she said we are still going on some dates right? confused I said yes, she didnt even hesitate.

 

so relieved but feeling spineless. i guess that is what i want or wanted. but i find each week i want more. im not willing to settle for her being aloof anymore.

 

so i could just walk away and start dating. or i could say something but what? that you take me for granted, there is no physical contact, if you want something to last with me show up for it? there is no power play with this girl, she is flat and unemotional.

 

i cannot make her feel something she is unwilling to.

 

hope or die? your thoughts?

[SteveNaive]

Well, at least it is good to know that I am not the only one who has a problem like this. She says something but doesn't act accordingly... As you said, you can't make her feel things she doesn't feel. I would say if you got time and she really means an awful lot to you give her time to fin out whether she wants it and give her opportunity to show.

Then again it could just be she really doesn't know what she wants. In that case forget it... She will take you for granted as long as you try to keep things up. Whatever you do will lead nowhere. You can only be passive now. That probably is the most awkward bit of it. I am not saying no contact, but bear in mind that she has to move now, not you. Be kind if she does, don't push it if she doesn't. If it is love she will come to you! Does that help? No, guess not, huh?!

[rich_1517]

oop posting to myself again.

 

i think i am down from the contract ending early and its making everything unclear. i am going to spend the morning looking for work.

 

i have time on this. she goes into a week with her son now. and next month the ex husband leaves for chile for a month. that is the time to being pushing and pulling again. in the meantime i have made dates with some pretty awesome women. im not kidding, weird how that happens. I am not going to say anything yet. i need that clarity. she has made no committment so...

 

 

but here is where i am starting to head.

 

that she needs to start showing an active interest in me, i cant do this alone. dates are intended to go somewhere, not stand in place and keep what you have.

 

to make something happen, for feelings to emerge trust needs to be rebuilt which means lowering your guard. will she trust me?

 

if you are having trouble finding feelings more then friends go back as i did to the point you lost them and ask yourself if what you didnt get, what upset you is still a factor. can you let go of those feelings that are blocking off passion? its what i did.

 

she confuses everyone on this. no one knows what she is up to. it sure feels like she is selfishly holding on to me. i could use that i suppose, and just not give her the friendship piece at all, no things with her son.

 

the longer this takes for her to say ok ill try, the less chance i feel there is.

[rich_1517]

actually steve it does help.

 

yes it feels like slow death. i guess i have to do nothing. which feels like a betrayal of what i thought was important about us.

 

thats the hardest part, to have someone who i shared my whole life with take me for granted. she is stubborn and selfish right now, and i am afraid i said "go ahead" and treat me that way.

[SteveNaive]

that she needs to start showing an active interest in me, i cant do this alone. dates are intended to go somewhere, not stand in place and keep what you have.

 

to make something happen, for feelings to emerge trust needs to be rebuilt which means lowering your guard.

 

Wow...like I said, my situation is similar to yours. I did post it just today. My Girlfriend respectively Ex keeps going back and forth. Saying she loves me but she can't commit now. Things like that. And I have been thinking about things a lot recently, but these thoughts you wrote down are so simple yet so full of truth. At least next time I have something to say when she asks again what I do expect from her...

[rich_1517]

the question i believe is timming and respect. that they will miss you when you drop the bomb.

 

we are taken for granted becuase we say its ok. we are afraid to make conditions about our feelings becuase we think they will say goodbye forever.

 

thats the key i think stop thinking they will say goodye. use their taken for granted to our benefit. im planning on changing the words soon.

 

the fact is they will not do anything they dont want. so how we get them to do what we want, commit or other? thats the end goal.

 

in my case i have to get her to start talking, thats tough especially for her. if i can get her to go back to the point that she started to lose hope, and give up. when she didnt get what she wanted, and tell her i am just willing to listen, not judge etc. that will be a huge step.

 

the question is how. she has had a very easy ride, and i think she likes it. so i need to create a motivation for that conversation. she isnt opposed to them it just cant have that "we have to talk" aspect.

 

if she is willing as i did to look at those feelings that may be blocking of feeling stronger about me again, it should work.

[RandyB]

Cold and unemotional would seem to describe a lot of women out there, but I think these are women who are simply scared and shy and do not know their own hearts or how to express feelings. It's hard to believe they don't feel something for anyone ever. Question is, if it means pulling teeth to get them to communicate or to "show up" emotionally, is it really worth our time? I am guessing they are like this with every guy and even deep into a relationship, so your work will never end.

 

RandyB

I'm in the same boat, guys, with a woman who makes me do all the work and take all the emotional risks, and we even haven't had so much as a date.

( link removed , if your curious)

[SteveNaive]

Rich, you are right again. We are taken for granted because we give them the feeling we will always be there. My ex even asked me to "keep her always" whatever that was supposed to mean.

With me it is a bit different. We kinda are talking. Although when it comes to the real issues she always stresses out. She is hiding from a decision and going wherever it is more comfortable for her. I still do not understand why I do get constant come ons from her and then when I am there she pushes me away again.

Just two days ago that happened. I have been abroad visiting my family. She messaged and texted and emailed me how she would be missing me and what all she would do if I was there. She even picked me up at the airport...i was sort of surprised. She greeted me like nothing happened, kisses hugs, the whole deal, we had beautiful two days. And then she went back to him telling me she'll see me on the weekend. Or Monday. Why does she go crazy for me fo 5 days and when I am there it's all back to what it was?

Sorry for telling my story in your forum, rich...I got carried away...

[rich_1517]

no steve keep talking here. thats the point. we bring people with common problems into one location to find a solution. we are both in similar situations.

 

i will start pointing some of the other people i know here and maybe we can find a common solution. so keep posting. its the whole topic of getting them to come back. which is why many of us are here anyway.

[rich_1517]

Steve, in your case you may have to start sending some mixed signals on purpose, as hard as that is. dont pressure her, she stresses out becuase in the past you may have said "we have to talk" a couple of times? just a guess.

 

thats why in two months i have brought up the relationship a total of one time. i am trying to show she can be safe with me and that i am not trying to change her. but communication is becoming essential now.

 

I need more information about you two though. why did the break up happen?

[rich_1517]

Keep it coming randy

 

i will look at your post and see what i can from my experience. we dont have to take all the risks. sometimes getting their respect is doing exactly what we think will be bad.

 

the question is which thing? some times its not calling, or calling when you normally wouldnt. I want to be careful here because words can lead to action. there are some great "tactics" but should be used when its time.

 

randy i think you are dead on. i had to deal with her being emotionally closed off at times for most of our relationship, and truth be told IF we got back together it could be work until im dead. in my case she has said she is more willing to fight for what she wants.

 

I dont think she realises that means talking about her feelings more.

[SteveNaive]

Hey Rich...

 

Well why it happened...I just can guess. Story is I am a student doing a year abroad where I met her. In autumn I will have to go back home for at least two years in order to finish my education. Could do that abroad as well, but lack of available funds... So we would have to live a long distance for at least one year. For me not that big of an issue as we both live fairly close to airports and there are low fare flights available all the time, effectively taking one hour to get there. She however "does not work this way" (her words).

When I went home for an exam she met him. In the beginning it was just friends. But then she got the thought that I will go away and she will be hurt by that. And he tried it on with her and she gave in. She said that she doesn't know why him, he wouldn't be half as nice as I would be and stuff. (Btw all she ever does is complain about him...) I have tried everything to stay, but I can't because I have to finish my education before I can start working here.

 

To make a long story short I am losing her because I have to go and she is afraid of being hurt. That was it initially. Only two days ago she said that she still thinks we can make it though. Just not now. That is what she always says: "Yeah, but not now."

 

I hope this kinda explains it a bit...

[Spartan1]

Evening gentlemen.

 

My advice is probably not the best. None of us here can know your exact situation Rich and Steve or the emotional wringer you are both going through but the only thing I can suggest is to simply to stay calm and walk away. If they want you they will come for you, if they value what you had, they will miss you. I know its hard but that is my advice. It doesn't mean my advice is the right way or the wrong way but both you are in between a rock and a hard place - catch 22.

 

You only know how special something is, when you don't have it anymore and it is not on tap.

 

The easier it is for them and the more you become their emotional crutch the more they will see you as a friend.

 

Stay calm, walk away, they will either come for you or they won't.

 

If they do then it is a start, hopefully on a more equal footing. If not, then you have broken the cycle, got some steel into your mind and began to work toward healing and building a life that involves you and not one were you emotions depend on the actions of a person that decided to leave you.

 

The other option to this is what you are doing now. Hanging in there, trying to work some magic, reading to much into things, hoping something will happen. This can work. I hope it does. If you go for the long haul it could work but you have to show absolute determination and confidence. It can be done but it is the harder of the two options and you could end up resenting your ex.

 

I wish you both the very best in your situations and that your x-s wake up to the fact they are missing out on some great guys.

 

All the best.

[rich_1517]

thanks spartan, are you in contact with your Ex? i know your story. have you become friends?

 

Steve i think she is telling you what the line is. stay and you get me. go and you dont. thats what i see so far, that could be knee jerk so dont swear by it but it sounds about right.

 

she comes back becuase while she may feel that she has to honor her own feelings about long term needs, she misses you and wants you. then she remembers you are leaving. that might explain the back and forth behaviour.

 

it sounds like you have talked about options with you away? and she said she doesnt feel comfortable with that.

 

if you changed your plans to stay, or if you were able to. is that what you want, and would she respect you if you did?

 

tough call.

[SteveNaive]

Hey Spartan,

 

as much as I wouldn't have believed you just this morning...well I now kinda do. Maybe it's because i just don't want to hang on again and hurt again because she can't make up her mind. Then again, when she is near me and we connect I am still sure it's love. Although I might just be on the border of losing the feeling and breaking free... Maybe I am as undecided as she is.

 

Now to the chinese proverb... If you love something let it go. If it returns it's yours for the moment. If it doesn't, it never was...

 

Sad but true...

[SteveNaive]

Thanks Rich!

 

Yeah, that is kinda how i would see it. If I didn't go she wouldn't have gone... Unfortunately I do not have any option to stay unless I win the lottery (which I have been desperatly trying) or successfully rob a bank (which carries a certain risk in it). (Ok, so at least my humour is back.)

 

Ok, so I am not able to stay. If I was...well until last week I firmly believed I she would have come back. But now she seems to get very attached to that other guy and hardly is willing to spend time with me. Although she says that she wants to and so on... We even still had sex together and this was not just because of a sudden craving, but it still involved feelings, it was TLC. Yesterday was the first day though, when she turned around and said we should stop because it wouldn't be right anymore...

 

So even if i stayed...i start doubting she will want back now.

[rich_1517]

hmm well i have to rethink what i want to do again.

 

some say make her wait. others say go ahead try.

 

im starting to think just being myself is the best solution, if she resists that then just keep busy with other things.

 

i thought about asking her what she thought of our conversation monday.

[rich_1517]

Yeah steve

 

you are in a tough spot. are there no jobs? or are you committed to a carreer path you have to follow.

[SteveNaive]

Hey Rich...

 

Put it that way, I've been studying for 5 years now (law) have two degrees so far, but am not finished so i cannot work in that field. I want to finish it, just because i haven't gone this far to give up. Ok, if i knew she was it...maybe i would...but after 6 months of knowing each other it is too early to say. Although I have to admit that she was the best so far and even better than I would have expected any girl to be...

Just a thought, culd it be she's just playing with me?

[rich_1517]

no i dont think so.

 

im not there so i cant say for sure. i think she is confused. how old is she?

 

she could be trying to get you to change your mind or plans. but she is probably just not able to reconcile the two. on one hand she wants out becuase you will leave her, on the other she misses you.

[neallo82288]

Ok gentlemen, I have read your posts and I have thought about your situations.

 

Steve, I know you have tried to communicate with her, but she is not willling to use the extra energy that a long distance relationship would require. If she is not willing to put in the extra effort to keep you, what makes you think that if you atayed around, she would put in the extra effort to keep you happy? I say that unless you can handle being just her friend then walk away and no contact her to save your feelings and sanity. If you keep trying to keep her she will resist as long as she knows that she has you and knows you are in the wings waiting. Let her go and travel the path that you have set for yourself. Make sure she has all the means of contacting you, but you may not contact her until she is ready to put ion the extra efforts that are associated with a lond distance relationship.

 

Rich, as I know your full situation, I will keep on telling you to relax and keep your path straight. You keep adding things to your thoughts and overanalyzing the situation. Just stop trying to analyze her and her feelings and go with the flow. (Steve, if you are reading this, my recommedations to you are based on the LDR thing and nothing more and the fact that there is someone else) Rich, you analyze everything that this girl says or does and as you and I know, some women are not able to be normal in their actions and expressing their feelings. If you can hang in there for a little while longer and not analyze her every action you just might be able to move forward with her. She is more confused than anyone I have ever heard about and a confused woman is like a lion with a thorn in their paw. Just be yourself and let her find her feelings for you.

 

Neallo

[rich_1517]

Dude you are with great compassion very smart. yeah you got me. when i am in terror or loss i think, think, think. so now i am starting to act act act.

 

i have dates all weekend and am actively seeking others. i am having a run right now and im going for all its worth. perhaps it will allow me some clarity. on one level it feels dishonest.

 

hmm. ok i ned a specific advice. she wants me to help her move stuff this weekend. this will mean going to her moms house. and running into her mom, thats a first. i said cant for saturday (im hiking *date*).

 

am i just reinforcing the "friends" thing by helping out, or am i showing a willingness to help which builds warm feelings?

 

I hear you thought Neallo. it just makes me very very sad/mad and frustrated to have less then half of what i had. i have heard friends a wee bit much and she is overly cautious about kisses.

 

it may be analyzing but she needs to start showing up and soon. make some date ideas, show something that makes me believe that she isnt just being selfish and confused at my expense. she has covered all her bases by saying friends, and ill try, and and. it lets her do what she wants with all the bases covered.

 

but maybe analysis isnt the answer, maybe just being more and more the guy i was, which unfortunately means talking and asking for what i want. today i made her go get me coffee before meeting me.

[rich_1517]

Help!

 

she calls now to invite me to go on factory tour with her and her son. i have made plans for that time.

 

WTF? am i supposed to do?

 

i am feeling like if i keep doing friends things im dead, but if i avoid these invites im dead too. help.

 

god i sound weak like i cant make up my own mind and you would be right.

 

i just cant make a decision around this girl with no clarity about the future. grrrrrrr.

[Spartan1]

thanks spartan, are you in contact with your Ex? i know your story. have you become friends?.

 

 

No contact at all. We are friends because I refused to become bitter about the divorce but I doubt we will ever see each other again, so in essense, we are not friends, not anything really. I am healing fast as a result of not having to see her and handle the friends situation and am able to move on. It's a double edged sword, because deep down like most dumpees I would love my ex to see how I have changed in attitude, life and everything. But that is not going to happen. If she ever did see me now, according to my friends, she would be blown away with the changes I made - changes I made for myself.

 

But thats not the point of my life on this planet. I am not here to have my buttons pushed by an ex who at the end of the day, only thought of herself and ripped me to shreds in order to get out of marriage quick.

 

It hurts. But the healing is faster. At the end of the day, I have found my own self worth. I have to do something that goes against my nature and that is look out for No1 - for the time being at least.

 

In the end, you can hang around as friends and maybe one day have to see her if she meets someone else or you can move on and get healing and re-building asap.

 

There are two things I have learned in this life:

 

The first is that people who have strong, unbendable principles and views about this and that are often the people you find will actually cave in the quickest or have second thoughts when those views or principles affect them personally.

 

The second thing is what I have learned from this experience. Often, to get what you want you have to do the complete opposite of what feels right. At the time, like yourselves, it felt wrong to walk away, it felt wrong if I did see her and wrong if I didn't. In the end, the right thing to do was to simply walk away.

 

Regarding your factory visit. You see that string above your head? That is what she is yanking. If you had a prior date set up you have to get some steel in your mind. This is your life. Simply tell her you had a prior date. If she loves you, if she wants you, you can meet up again another time. The sooner she realises you are not on tap and won't drop everything to be with her, the sooner she may realise what she is missing.

 

Steve, you cannot help your career path. You are young, 25, and have to complete whatever is needed to become a lawyer. If she cannot understand that, she will always have a problem with your career.

 

I agree with what Neallo says. It is very good advice.

[SteveNaive]

Hey ya!

 

Thx for giving me these tips and actually reading what i have written down here. It really calms me down to see that I am not alone with this. Sorry in advance for the long post, but seeing as I just got up I have a lot of thoughts to get rid of...

 

@neallo: Well you are kinda right, but thing is she said she wanted me to keep her. When I said goodbye to move on she would stand in my door at 0430 am to tell me that she still loves me (just we can't be together now...) and wants me to "keep her forever" the same way she wants to keep me. And sometimes she even acts like she wants...sometimes.

 

I guess if I had stayed we wouldn't have gotten into all this. But I somehow sense it's getting to late now. We continued seeing each other basically til three days ago. That was when she told me she doesn't want to go out with me anymore because it would be cheating on her new bf. Until then it was "I wanna spend time with you beacuse it feels right". Yet she asked me whether she could still stay with me in the summer as we had planned. So she seems very confused (or rather confusing?! ). But I am afraid I have pushed it a bit too far so that now she made up her mind...for him...aaargh!

 

@spartan: Thing is, she sees it the way you say. She knows I have to go my way. And seeing as she is aiming for the same career she perfectly understands what this means. So basically she doesn't have any problem with my career. It really just is (or was?!) that sheis afraid I won't be physically around when she needs a shoulder or a hug or a kiss... She always asks me to return though, as soon as I can (which I wanted to do anyway even before I met her), and offers me to visit her and stuff and be friends and be together in the future (though I told her that things just do not work this way...now or never, or am I wrong there?!). So if it wasn't for this other guy I really would say we could have a very deep friendship instead of a relationship. In the end she is only 18 and needs time to sort her life out as well. But lately I get the feeling that we are losing the proximity and closeness she always so liked in us and she wanted us to keep. She always felt comfortable around me, now, she still says she does, but she doesn't act like it anymore...

 

@rich: Well, that sounds like a really hard decision. I can quite well understand how much you would like to go and how hard it is to make a decision when there is no security. As much as I would wish I could say something else, I think you should tell her you have a prior date. I myself did jump for my ex, just as she wanted it in the last two weeks and see where it got me. If she loves you really she will understand that you have another date and will most certainly offer you another meeting. I would say although your problems, your situation seems to be a bit brighter than mine. She is making an effort to see you. So keep your head up, don't be too mad about your other date. I totally agree with Spartan on this one...

 

Sorry for that long post...